Would like some advice with school list, 3.51/3.45 cGPA/sGPA, 3 MCATs 29/33/42, Thanks very much!

[JackyLin]

Hey everyone, I posted previously and received many great advice regarding what might have gone wrong with my previous cycle. More detailed information is here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...advice-to-assess-app-weakness-thanks.1074437/

Long story short, I applied to 30 schools with the following, received all screened secondaries from Cali, but only 2 interviews from Duke and Michigan(early Oct and Nov). I ended up being waitlisted at Duke, and got put on low-tier waitlist for Michigan (essentially a rejection)

gGPA/sGPA - 3.51/3.45
- low freshmen (~3.0)
- 3.7x sophomore
- low junior (~3.1)
- 3.975 senior year (took a risk at redeeming myself by taking 28 units/7 courses compared to normal workload. Had a mixture of upper division humanities/social sciences and sciences)
Graduate GPA:3.98

MCAT (P/V/B)
April 2011 - 29P (11/9/9)
August 2011 - 33M (13/10/10)
April 2013 - 42 (14/13/15)

Clinical ~ 300 hours (plus additional 250 hours this year)
Shadow ~ 100 hours
Research
~2 years at a school of medicine neuroscience lab, working on my Masters thesis and projected defense date is in summer, potential submission
~0.5 year in 2011 working in an immunology lab
Scattered community service/leadership/school volunteers ~200 hours
CA resident.

Verified mid July, completed with most schools before mid August.


UPDATES:
2013-2014 plus:
Clinical ~ additional 250 hours
TA for 2 courses ~ 300 hours
Worked in a cafe in 2011 (missed to fill in activity) ~ 250 hours
continued research, cum. ~2500 hours
Adding two letters from Department Chair/PI of my lab, and hospital volunteer director
revamped PS

When I spoke with the director at Michigan, she noted there was no red flag in my app (LoR, PS, etc), they invited me to interview because they thought it was strong. I was ultimately rejected due to my weaker community service compared to others and a weak interview (I was caught off guard by some of the questions. Will definitely address this issue strongly this time around), but I am now suspecting the secondaries may have been my pitfall for other schools during last cycle.

Here's my new school list, it's by no means complete and I am looking for inputs on potential schools to add onto. I tried to avoid schools not favoring OOS based on US News Compass/MSAR stats, but that's just a preliminary strategy.


School List:

Duke - reapp, but interviewed and waitlisted here, hopefully they'll give me another chance
U of Michigan - reapp, but interviewed and rejected here.
Case Western - reapp, did not get to complete secondary last year due to finance and burnt out
UCLA (IS) - reapp, in state, would be nice to be close to fam
UCSD (IS) - reapp, in state, alma mater, fam
UC Davis (IS) - reapp, in state, fam
UC Irvine (IS) - reapp, in state, fam
UC Riverside (IS) - reapp, in state, fam

USC (IS) - new applicant, in state, fam
Ohio State - new applicant
U of Virginia - new applicant
Dartmouth - new applicant
St. Louis U - new applicant
U of Iowa - new applicant
Tufts - new applicant
Einstein - new applicant
U of Colorado - new applicant
Indiana U - new applicant
U of Cincinnati - new applicant
NYMC - new applicant
U of Vermont - new applicant
Temple - new applicant
Rush - new applicant
Wake Forest - new applicant
Virginia Commonwealth - new applicant

That's 25 schools, but considering people's advice of counting reapp schools as 1/2, that's about 20 schools realistically. I used my average MCAT and GPA for LizzyM, which comes out to be around 70. Should that be enough as I aim for quality not quantity?

Also, what are your thoughts about Texas schools? Based on stats the overall OOS competition is not too awful for some (SW, Houston, A&M) 4~6% acceptance for OOS based on US News Compass. However I am afraid those are mostly for people with strong ties to the area?

Also wondering if I should add more schools in target/safety range. Temple and NYMC usually have close to 10K applicants, which aren't ideal but I have not applied to them before. For safeties/targets:

Hofstra? (69.8 from last year, technically target not safety)
Albany? (pushing my lower range for target, 68.4, also close to 9K applicants)
Loyola? (70.4, so a target technically, 10k app school)
Drexel? (closer to safety, 65.5, but also 13k+ app school)
Rosalind Franklin (69.9, so a target, another 12k+ school
Brown? (Also target at 70.5, but OOS competition seems fierce)
What about regional schools with not majority but considerable OOS interview/acceptance %? (35%+) Maryland, Miami, Kentucky, EVMS, Illinois?

Some schools I have not included in my list since I applied last cycle: (yes, it's lunatic, I was way over my head)

Stanford
Columbia
Mount Sinai
Yale
U of Chicago
Johns Hopkins
Harvard
Northwestern
Washington St.Louis
Mayo (passed LoR screen)
Cornell
U of Penn
U of Pitts
Vanderbilt (did not receive secondary)
Emory
BU
NYU
Rochester
Jefferson
Creighton U
Tulane
GWU
Georgetown

I am trying to follow the advice of researching the schools well and know exactly why I am applying to them, but as I try to be as detailed as possible to know the schools, it's taking me quite a bit of time. Hopefully I can set a shorter list down and add/delete from there. Again, thanks so much for anyone taking the time to read through the wall of text, and please comment your thoughts!

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[Goro]

Goro suggests forgetting about how many schools get X apps for Y seats, except maybe GWU, which has like a 1% acceptance rate, even less than Harvard.

I recommend:
Hofstra
Albany
Loyola
Drexel
Rosalind Franklin
Emory
BU
Rochester
Jefferson
Creighton U
Tulane
GWU
Georgetown
ALL new MD schools
Tufts
Case
Wayne State
VCU
EVMS
MCW
SLU
UCI
UCSD
USC
Loma Linda (but read their list of don'ts)
Rush
Wake Forest
U VT
U CO
U NV (maybe)
U AZ

 

[JackyLin]

Thanks Goro for being the first to comment!

May I ask what's the reasoning behind NV and AZ? They don't seem to be as OOS friendly as some othe regional schools, but is it due to them being neighboring states of Cali?

Also, quite a few of those schools I had applied last year with no avail, such as BU, Rochester, Emory, Creighton, shouldn't I find alternatives that are around the same stat range but I am a new applicant at? (BU/Emory/Rochester/Creighton > Dartmouth/Einstein/Iowa/Miami (which were fairly OOS friendly in 2013, 50%+ OOS interviewed/accepted)/Brown, all around 70-72 range) MCW is a great reminder also, can't believe I missed it.

 

[Stagg737]

Imo drop Case Western. You submitted a primary but not a secondary, they may see that as either a sign that you are not serious about becoming a doctor or more likely that you are not serious about applying to their school. Either way, you basically killed your chances there by not finishing your secondary. UIC is a decent replacement for Case, they accept over 300 students and at least 1/3 of them are oos from what I remember.

 

[QofQuimica]

I don't think she needs to drop Case just because she didn't do the secondary last year. That's not uncommon. It's been ten years since I applied, and I still remember their secondary (and Duke's!) being a beast! Also, Case (and OH schools in general) are very OOS friendly, which the OP needs coming from CA.

OP, I like that your list had more emphasis on schools in the Midwest this year. There's a reason why so many people from CA end up going to school there. I'd keep all the OH schools, including Case, and yes, add MCW. Miami and Iowa are good choices too. You might consider Baylor with your MCAT, but the TX state schools are pretty tough for OOS applicants to get into, and plus you'd have to do TMDSAS. Not worth it IMO. Don't know much about the state schools out West, so I'll leave advising you about those to others who do.

Stagg does bring up a good point though. Don't overextend yourself and submit a bunch of primaries without following through. You're better off applying to a few less schools and completing all the apps than shotgunning AMCAS and then withdrawing from a bunch of half complete apps.

 

[Stagg737]

I don't think she needs to drop Case just because she didn't do the secondary last year. That's not uncommon. It's been ten years since I applied, and I still remember their secondary (and Duke's!) being a beast! Also, Case (and OH schools in general) are very OOS friendly, which the OP needs coming from CA.

I just said to drop it because of my own past experiences. I was told by 2 or 3 schools from my second cycle not to bother reapplying because I didn't finish a secondary. I'm sure this varies from school to school, but it seemed to me that unless an applicant could give a valid reason for not finishing a secondary (feeling burnt out from other apps not being a valid reason to me) that it would hurt his or her chances of getting in the second time. Obviously you have much more experience with the process than I do, so I'd tell @JackyLin to stick with your advice. I'm just curious though, do you think she is a strong enough applicant to negate the reasons I gave, or do you think that Case just won't care that much?

 

[QofQuimica]

I just said to drop it because of my own past experiences. I was told by 2 or 3 schools from my second cycle not to bother reapplying because I didn't finish a secondary. I'm sure this varies from school to school, but it seemed to me that unless an applicant could give a valid reason for not finishing a secondary (feeling burnt out from other apps not being a valid reason to me) that it would hurt his or her chances of getting in the second time. Obviously you have much more experience with the process than I do, so I'd tell @JackyLin to stick with your advice. I'm just curious though, do you think she is a strong enough applicant to negate the reasons I gave, or do you think that Case just won't care that much?

Both. I think she's a strong applicant who had a poor app strategy last year, including too many reach schools/wrong schools. She'd have been better off not finishing some of those coastal school apps and completing her Case app. This year, she won't make that same mistake, and if Case asks her why she didn't complete last year, she can honestly say she screwed up by not doing it last year. Plus, unlike the other schools where she's a reapp, it's hard to know how competitive she'll be at Case since they never got to review her full app. But they matriculate a lot of CA residents, and they like people who are a little off the beaten path. So it may wind up being a good match for her.

 

[rodmichael82]

Dude if I were you I would get some extra cash and just go all out and apply to 35+ schools. I mean you've already wasted an application cycle which is equivalent to losing 1 year lifetime pay of 200-300k so what do you have to lose by spending an extra 1k?

 

[BeancheBlanco]

I also think you should apply to as many schools as possible. You are a unique case and so I would say you have a legit shot anywhere but not a safe bet anywhere either. In general, you should be fine though.

 

[JackyLin]

Dude if I were you I would get some extra cash and just go all out and apply to 35+ schools. I mean you've already wasted an application cycle which is equivalent to losing 1 year lifetime pay of 200-300k so what do you have to lose by spending an extra 1k?

I also think you should apply to as many schools as possible. You are a unique case and so I would say you have a legit shot anywhere but not a safe bet anywhere either. In general, you should be fine though.

I know I should and plan to, but just want to have a core list first and once I complete it add schools one by one to maintain quality of secondaries. Thanks for your inputs!

 

[rodmichael82]

I know I should and plan to, but just want to have a core list first and once I complete it add schools one by one to maintain quality of secondaries. Thanks for your inputs!

It's very simple look at MSAR and keep an eye out for schools open to OOS applicants (accepted > 40 % OOS applicants or whatever threshold you feel comfortable with), GPA and MCAT within your range and apply to all of them. This process should not take more than 1 day.