You know what... Nevermind.

[RxnMan]

Don't forget the ABR (American Board of Radiology) Research/"Holman" pathway which works for either Radonc or Rads, and it actually gives you more time for research than the ABIM does.

No it doesn't. ABR gives 24 months of protected time, ABIM gives 36.

I didn't put it down as the number of programs participating in Holman is pretty small, and as this thread and others state, rads on the average seems to be pretty anti-resident-research. At least, compared to Peds, Path, and IM with the many short-tracking programs and research-oriented residencies available in those fields.

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[Doctor&Geek]

No it doesn't. ABR gives 24 months of protected time, ABIM gives 36.

IM/Peds Residency + Fellowship = 6 years

Rads/Rad Onc Internship + Residency = 5 years

I suppose if one really wants to, one can spend another 12 months after rads/rad onc residency in a postdoc and equal ABIM research time (earning instructor level salary, even!).

 

[RxnMan]

...I suppose if one really wants to, one can spend another 12 months after rads/rad onc residency in a postdoc and equal ABIM research time (earning instructor level salary, even!).

I don't know what you're getting at here. My point was just that the previous poster's statement about the amount of protected research time provided by the respective programs was incorrect.

 

[Doctor&Geek]

I don't know what you're getting at here. My point was just that the previous poster's statement about the amount of protected research time provided by the respective programs was incorrect.

No, I agree with you. Clearly, Holman doesn't provide more (actually less!) protected research time. I'm just trying to say that ABIM and Holman cannot be directly compared due to the differences in total time to graduation.

 

[RxnMan]

No, I agree with you. Clearly, Holman doesn't provide more (actually less!) protected research time. I'm just trying to say that ABIM and Holman cannot be directly compared due to the differences in total time to graduation.

I'd say they can't be directly compared because they train physicians in two (very) different fields of medicine but whatever.

 

[Neuronix]

Don't forget the ABR (American Board of Radiology) Research/"Holman" pathway which works for either Radonc or Rads

I have thoroughly investigated this pathway, including calling the ABR for hard information about which programs sponsor students and how many have been sponsored in Rad Onc and Radiology. The Holman Pathway is almost entirely used by Radonc and has a very negative reputation among Radiologists as "too much" research.

 

[RxnMan]

I have thoroughly investigated this pathway, including calling the ABR for hard information about which programs sponsor students and how many have been sponsored in Rad Onc and Radiology...

You should publish or post that information here for future reference.

 

[Neuronix]

I was asked not to share and I do not have the information with me in Thailand. For me it was somewhat of a moot point, as there were so few programs in Radiology that have supported Holmon pathway students. The programs that had supported Holmon pathway students were small programs that don't have much research. They were certainly NOT the big name places in Radiology that have the big NIH grants. I've been told that is because the few programs supporting Holmon pathway students (0-1 in the entire program at a time, and since Holmon is relatively new I don't think any institution had hosted more than one student) don't have the money to support students to do research otherwise, and some small number of residents become very insistant they'd like to do research and thus get their own money. When I mentioned how disappointing this was to the Holmon pathway coordinator, she suggested I should apply in Rad Onc.

If you would like the information about numbers of Holmon Pathway students and where they are, see: http://theabr.org/ic/ic_other/ic_holman.html

Below is an overview of the program requirements.
For more detailed information, contact Claudia Rosales at [email protected].

Things may have changed slightly since I contacted them, as it's been a few years. Somehow I doubt it. For example, Vandy since then eliminated their research residency track in Radiology.

 

[echod]

I was asked not to share and I do not have the information with me in Thailand. For me it was somewhat of a moot point, as there were so few programs in Radiology that have supported Holmon pathway students. The programs that had supported Holmon pathway students were small programs that don't have much research. They were certainly NOT the big name places in Radiology that have the big NIH grants. I've been told that is because the few programs supporting Holmon pathway students (0-1 in the entire program at a time, and since Holmon is relatively new I don't think any institution had hosted more than one student) don't have the money to support students to do research otherwise, and some small number of residents become very insistant they'd like to do research and thus get their own money. When I mentioned how disappointing this was to the Holmon pathway coordinator, she suggested I should apply in Rad Onc.

If you would like the information about numbers of Holmon Pathway students and where they are, see: http://theabr.org/ic/ic_other/ic_holman.html



Things may have changed slightly since I contacted them, as it's been a few years. Somehow I doubt it. For example, Vandy since then eliminated their research residency track in Radiology.

Is application to the Holman pathway made along with ERAS or after one has started PGY-1? Thanks a lot.

 

[Neuronix]

Is application to the Holman pathway made along with ERAS or after one has started PGY-1? Thanks a lot.

According to the linked website, applications typically go out in PGY-2. Though, it seems like there's an option to extend the typical Holmon by 3 months in PGY-1. But, they are quite friendly to questions if you want to contact that person by e-mail. I think they do want you to have a mentor identified, a research project proposal written up, and have the program on board, which might be difficult as a PGY-1.

 

[Neuronix]

IM/Peds Residency + Fellowship = 6 years

Rads/Rad Onc Internship + Residency = 5 years

I suppose if one really wants to, one can spend another 12 months after rads/rad onc residency in a postdoc and equal ABIM research time (earning instructor level salary, even!).

Eh, if you're gonna be in academics/research they'll expect you do at least a 1 year, often 2 year fellowship in Rads as well. In the 2 year fellowship, a year will be research typically.

 

[xanthines]

Coming to game a little late...

I've had a couple of medical attendings tell me they're actually impressed with our MSTP students during their 3rd/4th years. Our school does a pretty good job integrating medicine and research, though. They encourage, although do not require, us to shadow/follow/whatever clinicians during the PhD years. They provide some small incentives to participate, so I think many of us do.

I've been spending a lot of time in heme/onc clinic and now my minor dilemma is whether to switch to pathology or something in the IM realm. Given the tone of this thread, it seems like IM!

-X

P.S. Still not tired of research, although the administrative BS is becoming increasingly annoying...

 

[HopeMed]

People get matched DIRECTLY into cards fellowships straight out of med school.

Is this true? Is this by bypassing a IM residency? Thanks for answering a lowly pre-med's naive question!

 

[QofQuimica]

Is this true? Is this by bypassing a IM residency? Thanks for answering a lowly pre-med's naive question!

No, I believe sluox was talking about physician scientist research residencies, where you are basically being groomed as junior faculty. These programs often grant you automatic acceptance into one of their fellowships after you finish your IM residency. The length of the residency may be somewhat shortened to give you more research time, but you still have to do at least a couple of years of IM residency first before moving on to the cards fellowship.

 

[MSSM2013]

I worked at UCSF's radiation oncology program once. All of their PGI-1 last year were MD-PHDs from top 40 med schools.

 

[calvinNhobbes]

Being an MD/PhD applying to competitive residencies is hard, no matter what the qualifications.

I actually managed to honor all my M3 clerkships and score >240 on Step II, but still did not match into one of the competitive surgical subspecialities fields last year.

Everyone, even at my home program, was shocked I didn't match. The only feedback I got to improve was to make more connections. I made the mistake of just focusing on my grad school stuff during the PhD. I should have spent alot more time focusing on making as many clinical connections as possible during that time because I didn't have time to make it up before needing to ask for letters. Also, away sub-Is are very important but I was limited to only one due to a shortened schedule. Once you make that GPA/Board cut off, all that matters is who you know, and I was told letters from PhDs don't really help.

During interviews, the PhD didn't really matter. Most of the time I had to defend why I spent so much time on doing research, even at programs that had research track residencies. I even talked to some residents that thought a PhD was a 1-2 year degree.

But I don't regret anything. I know what I want to do and I know I can do it. I just need to fight harder for it.

 

[gbwillner]

... but still did not match into one of the competitive surgical subspecialities fields last year.

Ya see, there's your problem right there...

 

[calvinNhobbes]

Ya see, there's your problem right there...

Sigh, ya I know.... but it's what I want to do....

 

[Neuronix]

MD/PhD! Your ticket into top residencies anywhere!***

***Offer valid only in certain residency specialties. Offer not valid at community programs. Offer may only be used in conjunction with good to excellent medical school performance. May not apply to residencies in competitive locations.

 

[SilverBvllet]

UPenn's MSTP match list looks amazing though.

 

[Neuronix]

UPenn's MSTP match list looks amazing though.

My blog is temporarily disabled. Suffice it to say, the match list looks good considering we leave off the people who don't match.

If you do match it's always going to be a decent academic program. Community programs won't interview MD/PhDs at all.

 

[SilverBvllet]

My blog is temporarily disabled. Suffice it to say, the match list looks good considering we leave off the people who don't match.

If you do match it's always going to be a decent academic program. Community programs won't interview MD/PhDs at all.

O.O hey that's actually a really good point... I forgot to consider Penn's program is bigger than others...so wow... thanks man.

 

[Shifty B]

So, after all the groaning about how difficult it was going to be over the last year, where did Neuronix match?

 

[Neuronix]

Solid step 1, 260+ step 2, honors in almost everything when I returned to clinics got me mid tier academic in an OK but not desired location.

 

[Shifty B]

Solid step 1, 260+ step 2, honors in almost everything when I returned to clinics got me mid tier academic in an OK but not desired location.

Rad Onc, right? You prefer not to say?

 

[tortuga87]

penn is not mid tier...

 

[Neuronix]

penn is not mid tier...

Lol wut

 

[tortuga87]

nvm