Why don't I see DO physicians in large hospitals?

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retro

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Hello everyone,

Just to briefly introduce myself, I'm a fellow DO applicant recently accepted to couple of osteopathic schools. I'm very excited to continue my education, and I have been researching about possible paths for DO physicians in terms of residencies. I'm aware that DO physicians can also seat for USMLE, apply to allopathic residencies, etc...but I was confused because this does not seem to correlate with what I'm observing as I'm shadowing at various hospitals.

I'm actually in my last year of pharmacy program, so I'm on a rotation at large university hospitals around NJ/NY area so I often get chances to seat at meetings and case presentations with medical residents. However, almost everyone if not all the residents that I meet seemed to be MD students. If 1 out of 5 med students are DOs and half of DO students are applying to allopathic residencies, shouldn't I be seeing more DO residents in these large university hospitals? Even when I run into attendings and fellows, I only see MD written on their white coats. I've heard rumors that hospitals give DO physicians white coats with "MD" written on it anyway because patients are more familiar with it...is this true/prevalent? Also, I'm aware that there are osteopathic hospitals that accomodate training for DO students, but are there enough of these training sites accross the country?

At the end of the day, I just want to work as an infectious disease physician in a fairly large hospital. I'm a novice in the world of phsicians (and how residencies, hiring work), so it would be great if anyone can explain to me why I don't seem to be running into that many DOs in the hospital. Thank you in advance!
 
retro said:
Hello everyone,

Just to briefly introduce myself, I'm a fellow DO applicant recently accepted to couple of osteopathic schools. I'm very excited to continue my education, and I have been researching about possible paths for DO physicians in terms of residencies. I'm aware that DO physicians can also seat for USMLE, apply to allopathic residencies, etc...but I was confused because this does not seem to correlate with what I'm observing as I'm shadowing at various hospitals.

I'm actually in my last year of pharmacy program, so I'm on a rotation at large university hospitals around NJ/NY area so I often get chances to seat at meetings and case presentations with medical residents. However, almost everyone if not all the residents that I meet seemed to be MD students. If 1 out of 5 med students are DOs and half of DO students are applying to allopathic residencies, shouldn't I be seeing more DO residents in these large university hospitals? Maybe not at columbia, mount sinai, or nyp's main teaching hospital which basically has most of their faculty on staff and still maintain some bias toward DOs but nyu's bellvue and most of the large SUNY hospitals have tons of DOs on staff Even when I run into attendings and fellows, I only see MD written on their white coats. I've heard rumors that hospitals give DO physicians white coats with "MD" written on it anyway because patients are more familiar with it...is this true/prevalent? Nah, i think thats illegal or something, I've heard of DOs signing off on meds on pre-filled notes that have M.D on the signature line though Also, I'm aware that there are osteopathic hospitals that accomodate training for DO students, but are there enough of these training sites accross the country? These hospitals are a dying breed, some are left in Ohio, Michigan, and California

At the end of the day, I just want to work as an infectious disease physician in a fairly large hospital. I'm a novice in the world of phsicians (and how residencies, hiring work), so it would be great if anyone can explain to me why I don't seem to be running into that many DOs in the hospital. Thank you in advance!
Click to expand...

Dude, I'm sure you'll be able to become a great ID doc if you put in a concerted effort
 
It is true that DO's get "MD" written on their badges/coats pretty often. I've seen it several times. It could be somewhat of a regional thing where you are (I'm in the south so I don't really know). In researching residencies I've looked for DO's at mostly university hospitals, and while some are fairly welcoming others have not had a DO for several years. It's quite variable, and seems to be improving as time goes on and more DO's graduate. I'm given to understand that the 20% of students in osteopathic schools statistic is fairly recent, with many of the schools having been built in the last 10 years.
 
Its all relative to where you are looking. Some hospitals/regions will have more than others. I volunteer at an ED that is on the campus of a large University with an Allopathic Med School. More than 1 in 5 of the EM docs are DO's. The EMS Med Director is a DO. All the badges say "DO."
 
retro said:
Hello everyone,

Just to briefly introduce myself, I'm a fellow DO applicant recently accepted to couple of osteopathic schools. I'm very excited to continue my education, and I have been researching about possible paths for DO physicians in terms of residencies. I'm aware that DO physicians can also seat for USMLE, apply to allopathic residencies, etc...but I was confused because this does not seem to correlate with what I'm observing as I'm shadowing at various hospitals.

I'm actually in my last year of pharmacy program, so I'm on a rotation at large university hospitals around NJ/NY area so I often get chances to seat at meetings and case presentations with medical residents. However, almost everyone if not all the residents that I meet seemed to be MD students. If 1 out of 5 med students are DOs and half of DO students are applying to allopathic residencies, shouldn't I be seeing more DO residents in these large university hospitals? Even when I run into attendings and fellows, I only see MD written on their white coats. I've heard rumors that hospitals give DO physicians white coats with "MD" written on it anyway because patients are more familiar with it...is this true/prevalent? Also, I'm aware that there are osteopathic hospitals that accomodate training for DO students, but are there enough of these training sites accross the country?

At the end of the day, I just want to work as an infectious disease physician in a fairly large hospital. I'm a novice in the world of phsicians (and how residencies, hiring work), so it would be great if anyone can explain to me why I don't seem to be running into that many DOs in the hospital. Thank you in advance!
Click to expand...

It's the NYC/NJ area. Not a DO "friendly" area. I lived there for quite a while and have family that still lives there and it's just so inundated with MD schools (and quality ones, at that) that DOs are just not very prevalent. However, I'm pretty sure St. Barnabas (in the Bra-nix) is a DO friendly hospital so if you're thinking about doing your residency/career in the area, that's an option.
 
retro said:
Hello everyone,

Just to briefly introduce myself, I'm a fellow DO applicant recently accepted to couple of osteopathic schools. I'm very excited to continue my education, and I have been researching about possible paths for DO physicians in terms of residencies. I'm aware that DO physicians can also seat for USMLE, apply to allopathic residencies, etc...but I was confused because this does not seem to correlate with what I'm observing as I'm shadowing at various hospitals.

I'm actually in my last year of pharmacy program, so I'm on a rotation at large university hospitals around NJ/NY area so I often get chances to seat at meetings and case presentations with medical residents. However, almost everyone if not all the residents that I meet seemed to be MD students. If 1 out of 5 med students are DOs and half of DO students are applying to allopathic residencies, shouldn't I be seeing more DO residents in these large university hospitals? Even when I run into attendings and fellows, I only see MD written on their white coats. I've heard rumors that hospitals give DO physicians white coats with "MD" written on it anyway because patients are more familiar with it...is this true/prevalent? Also, I'm aware that there are osteopathic hospitals that accomodate training for DO students, but are there enough of these training sites accross the country?

At the end of the day, I just want to work as an infectious disease physician in a fairly large hospital. I'm a novice in the world of phsicians (and how residencies, hiring work), so it would be great if anyone can explain to me why I don't seem to be running into that many DOs in the hospital. Thank you in advance!
Click to expand...

It occurs but it is not necessarily because of the reason you mentioned, it is mostly because that's the default "setting" and it is USUALLY because of a mistake... HOWEVER, shame on any DO who goes along with that!

ID is one of the least competitive medicine subspecialties... So you should have no worries! (although I can almost guarantee that you will change your mind at least 1200 times before you get your degree)!
 
Also be aware that many large, university hospitals don't have a lot of DOs walking the halls because they are in private practice (with hospital privileges) whereas MDs are more likely to go into academic medicine (with a **generally** higher emphasis on research in MD programs impacting this).

It's not a "they can't!" thing, but rather a sheer number and scope of education thing.
 
Thank you all for the input! It really helps me to understand the phenomena I'm seeing durinig my rotations. On a brighter note, good to know that ID is a relatively an easy-to-get residency...even though I get a feeling that I'll be changing my mind 5000 times during my course of study, haha.
 
This may have been mentioned about but tl;dr.

You must take into consideration that most physicians wind up somewhere within the immediate vicinity around their residency location. So, if you're not shadowing/working in large hospitals that are surrounded by a DO school(s) you're not as likely to see DO physicians. Unless one just happened to transplant to the area you're in.

My area is surrounded (literally N, E, S, W) by four DO schools and our hospitals are full of DOs. That's true from the small 60 bed hospitals to the larger ones. Are there still more MDs? Absolutely. However, it's more like 65/35 MD😀O.
 
If you look hard enough, you will find DO's in most fields, and some are in pretty big institutions. Issue is that big institutions are usually heavily academic, which means significant research and publishing is a norm. My experience is that DO schools don't stress it as much as allopathic schools. Also, as properly noted before, some fields (as well as institutions) are not DO friendly. But i think nowadays, if you look hard enough, you will find a DO almost anywhere
 
Something to consider:

There are around 150 US MD schools, plus too many foreign MD schools for me to count.

There are 31 DO schools.

# of MDs >>>> # of DOs

So no, you will definitely not see very many DOs around.
 
I know some people in here have already mentioned it, but many DO's wear MD tags because it makes it easier for the hospital since patients could become confused. The difference between do and md is becoming smaller, if you're on the top10% of your class you can choose from a lot different residencies. The RO(A)D residencies are harder to get as a DO but students make it every year, last year a DO student secured a dermatology residency at Mayo.
 
valkener said:
I know some people in here have already mentioned it, but many DO's wear MD tags because it makes it easier for the hospital since patients could become confused.
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Hmmm. I've never seen or heard of this practice. Sick people in hospitals couldn't care less about your degree or pedigree. All they care about is that you're a doctor. So when you introduce yourself by saying "Hi, I'm Doctor So-And-So" - or when a nurse introduces you by saying "This is Doctor So-And-So" - that's all they need to know, and that's all they want to hear.
 
costales said:
Hmmm. I've never seen or heard of this practice. Sick people in hospitals couldn't care less about your degree or pedigree. All they care about is that you're a doctor. So when you introduce yourself by saying "Hi, I'm Doctor So-And-So" - or when a nurse introduces you by saying "This is Doctor So-And-So" - that's all they need to know, and that's all they want to hear.
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It happens. I've seen it at one hospital so far.
 
cliquesh said:
It happens. I've seen it at one hospital so far.
Click to expand...

+2. The DO I shadowed had a badge that read MD as well. He said the hospital system just wasn't equipped to deal with DOs as a separate entity. It sounds reasonable given that, in pure numbers, MDs greatly out number DOs in the south (which is where I'm located). He was a third year fellow in Peds hem/onc. I also saw a DO Peds hem/onc attending there when I shadowed (same deal on his ID card). This was at a large Children's hospital that was part of a large medical center. DOs are out there; they're just not always easy to find.
 
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Ebola4Breakfast said:
+2. The DO I shadowed had a badge that read MD as well. He said the hospital system just wasn't equipped to deal with DOs as a separate entity. It sounds reasonable given that, in pure numbers, MDs greatly out number DOs in the south (which is where I'm located). He was a third year fellow in Peds hem/onc. I also saw a Peds hem/onc attending there when I shadowed (same deal on his ID card). This was at a large Childrens hospital that was part of a large medical center. DOs are out there; they're just not always easy to find.
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I can't believe this practice actually goes on. Maybe I'm going overboard, but I'd be the first one reporting this if I saw it first-hand.

To begin with, how does this not violate some type of law, even if simply ethical? Second, I would take offense to someone asking me to wear an M.D. badge, when I'm a D.O. I chose to attend D.O. school, to become a D.O. Lastly, just because the public is still learning about the D.O. profession, doesn't justify the act of putting an M.D. badge on a D.O. If D.O.s aren't "out in the open", how is the public ever going to learn, thus eliminating the need for this practice to occur.
 
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It sounds like the MD badge is a lazy way to standardize physician identification by the management. The DOs themselves are not breaking any law or ethics. It is illegal for people to hold themselves out as physicians when they're not, but DOs are physicians.
 
costales said:
It sounds like the MD badge is a lazy way to standardize physician identification by the management. The DOs themselves are not breaking any law or ethics. It is illegal for people to hold themselves out as physicians when they're not, but DOs are physicians.
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That's all it is. A lot of hospitals don't even have MD or DO on their tags, it just says "Physician"
 
costales said:
It sounds like the MD badge is a lazy way to standardize physician identification by the management. The DOs themselves are not breaking any law or ethics. It is illegal for people to hold themselves out as physicians when they're not, but DOs are physicians.
Click to expand...

some hospitals just don't have the function that prints anything other than "MD" on the badges. it's really just out of convenience.
 
Practicing Physicians in the United States:
85-90% MD
10-15% DO

Also, location has A LOT to do with it. Good luck with your decision!
 
Hi Retro,
I am a medical student at an osteopathic school who is currently applying to residency programs. I have seen plenty of osteopathic physicians at major university hospitals on many of my interviews. To my knowledge, I have seen DOs being referred to as DOs on the name-tags, I did not find any misleading information being relayed on the name-tags. However I think there are so many MD physicians at hospitals that you do not see "DO" name-tags unless you are actively looking for one. Also, probably the reason why there is such confusion regarding whether a doctor is a DO vs MD is that the ancillary staff is usually unaware of the difference between DO and MD, and thats probably because both usually give care in accordance with standards of medical practice. I hope this helps.
 
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I volunteer at a small hospital, but what would be considered the major hospital for the region in Idaho, and all of the physicians are distinguished by degree - DOs have DO on their tags and MDs, well, MDs.

I had a discussion with a DO for a cardiology practice here, and he has been on staff at major hospitals like Cleveland Clinic where he was recognized as DO. Anyways, I'm sure they are around but just less prevalent as MDs just because of numbers.
 
Booter008 said:
Practicing Physicians in the United States:
85-90% MD
10-15% DO
Click to expand...
This

Also, location has A LOT to do with it. Good luck with your decision!
Click to expand...
This

coffeeeandtea said:
some hospitals just don't have the function that prints anything other than "MD" on the badges. it's really just out of convenience.
Click to expand...
And this.

Finally, it's not like DOs come with little neon warning stickers on their foreheads that say, "Attention! Attention! This physician has a DO degree!" Unless you actively look for them, you'll likely not notice them. They blend right into the sea of MDs.
 
QofQuimica said:
Finally, it's not like DOs come with little neon warning stickers on their foreheads that say, "Attention! Attention! This physician has a DO degree!" Unless you actively look for them, you'll likely not notice them. They blend right into the sea of MDs.
Click to expand...

Except that if you find a DO or DO student, and you are nice to us, we can adjust your back and neck for you. 😉
 
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