Honors Carolina (UNC-Chapel Hill) vs. Cornelius Vanderbilt scholarship vs. Yale for pre-med

[deleted1214755]

Hello! I am a high school senior working to decide upon which college to attend. I am very grateful for the options I have, but at the same time, I am very confused! If anyone has first-hand accounts of the pre-med experience at any of these schools (with the details I'm providing below in mind), I would greatly appreciate the information!

I was admitted to Honors Carolina at UNC, which includes perks like priority registration and smaller honors classes. It is an amazing school for pre-med. However, I am concerned about getting into the the classes and professors I want where it is doable to make the necessary grades for pre-med. Specifically, I would have a lot of transfer credits and prior rigorous coursework causing me to be ready for classes like organic chemistry in my first year, which I might not be able to get due to seats in upper-level courses not being held for freshman. Also, I get the impression it is likely cut-throat and extremely competitive to get necessary opportunities like shadowing, research and volunteering.

For Vanderbilt, I understand that the Cornelius Vanderbilt scholarship (full-tuition and 1 summer stipend) encompasses some of "the best" academic students at Vanderbilt. However, one of my big concerns is related to seeing students discuss online how terrible some of the pre-med requirements, like organic chemistry, can be due to the classes being "weed out" classes making it nearly impossible to make As. (Although UNC has a similar reputation in regards to the pre-med "weed out" classes, I would get transfer credit for many of the courses and Honors Carolina offers small, 24-30 student classes that supposedly offer a better experience). I have also read that my chosen major is the hardest major at Vanderbilt and pre-meds tend to choose neuroscience to protect their GPAs. I am not concerned about the challenge and rigor, but I am concerned about maintaining the necessary GPA for top medical schools.

In terms of Yale, I've been leaning towards Yale, although I've been vacillating due to the cost, which is obviously a big component. However, I ultimately feel that Yale offers unparalleled opportunities within the undergraduate years and my understanding is that it yields extraordinarily high acceptance rates to top 10 medical schools. I'm also very attracted to their program for my major.

P.S. I'm trying to focus this post on the pre-med experience so you all can understand my thought process. I am also very active outside the classroom in a variety of activities and have an extroverted personality, so I need to find a good fit for all of this.

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[Mr. Macrophage]

If Yale is full price, go to Vanderbilt and never look back. There is no circumstance for premed where a T5 undergrad is worth $200,000+ more than a T15 undergrad.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Hello! I am a high school senior working to decide upon which college to attend. I am very grateful for the options I have, but at the same time, I am very confused! If anyone has first-hand accounts of the pre-med experience at any of these schools (with the details I'm providing below in mind), I would greatly appreciate the information! I am planning to major in biomedical engineering. For context, I am a National Merit Scholar.

I am in state for UNC-Chapel Hill and was admitted to Honors Carolina, which includes perks like priority registration and smaller honors classes. It is an amazing school for pre-med. However, I am concerned about getting into the the classes and professors I want where it is doable to make the necessary grades for pre-med. Specifically, I would have a lot of transfer credits and prior rigorous coursework causing me to be ready for classes like organic chemistry in my first year, which I might not be able to get due to seats in upper-level courses not being held for freshman. Also, I get the impression it is likely cut-throat and extremely competitive to get necessary opportunities like shadowing, research and volunteering.

For Vanderbilt, I understand that the Cornelius Vanderbilt scholarship (full-tuition and 1 summer stipend) encompasses some of "the best" academic students at Vanderbilt. However, one of my big concerns is related to seeing students discuss online how terrible some of the pre-med requirements, like organic chemistry, can be due to the classes being "weed out" classes making it nearly impossible to make As. (Although UNC has a similar reputation in regards to the pre-med "weed out" classes, I would get transfer credit for many of the courses and Honors Carolina offers small, 24-30 student classes that supposedly offer a better experience). I have also read that biomedical engineering is the hardest major at Vanderbilt and pre-meds tend to choose neuroscience to protect their GPAs. I am not concerned about the challenge and rigor, but I am concerned about maintaining the necessary GPA for top medical schools.

In terms of Yale, I've been leaning towards Yale since December, although I've been vacillating due to the cost, which is obviously a big component. However, I ultimately feel that Yale offers unparalleled opportunities within the undergraduate years and my understanding is that it yields extraordinarily high acceptance rates to top 10 medical schools. I'm also very attracted to their biomedical engineering, since one of their focus areas seems to be biomedical devices and collaborating with the medical school.

P.S. I'm trying to focus this post on the pre-med experience so you all can understand my thought process. I am also very active outside the classroom in a variety of activities and have an extroverted personality, so I need to find a good fit for all of this.

Welcome to the forums.

First, no chemistry program working with a prehealth advising office should/would let freshman take organic chemistry in their first semester. Even if you come from a school that is part of the NCSSS – National Consortium of Secondary STEM Schools , college first-years should not be diving head-first into the toughest weedout classes out there.

Figure out the prehealth advising support at each school.

Health Professions Advising Office - Health Professions Advising

Welcome to the Office of Health Professions Advising! The HPA office advises UNC – CH students on the many pathways to a health professional career and the various career options […]

hpa.unc.edu

Under the Office of the Provost. Read their annual report.

Home page version 3

74% In the last 3 years, over 70% of our students were accepted into medical school on their first try. 200+ Each year, we advise over 200 students who are admitted to health professions programs. 40 yrs. Our team has a collective 40 years of experience in pre-health advising. Support Offered...

www.vanderbilt.edu

Unsure, but likely under their Office of the Provost. Read their annual report.

Health Professions – Office of Career Strategy – Yale University

The Health Professions Advising Program (HPAP) serves undergraduates and alumni of Yale College, students in the Graduate School of Arts & Sciences, and Postdoctoral Associates who are interest…

ocs.yale.edu

Under the Office of Career Strategy (Services)

 

[phantasmo]

yale unless you are low to mid income

 

[Arbitas]

yale unless you are low to mid income

You clearly come from a very privileged background if you think $200,000+ is chump change.

OP, go to Vanderbilt. Yale isn't worth plunging yourself into that much debt for, especially considering the fact that a significant chunk of freshmen who enter college as pre-meds change their mind later down the road. At 18-19 years old you haven't really had the lived experience to decide what you want to do for the next decade of your life.

 

[shambho]

I think Vandy makes sense. If you do end up there, enjoy Nashville! It’s a nice city

 

[deleted1214755]

Welcome to the forums.

First, no chemistry program working with a prehealth advising office should/would let freshman take organic chemistry in their first semester. Even if you come from a school that is part of the NCSSS – National Consortium of Secondary STEM Schools , college first-years should not be diving head-first into the toughest weedout classes out there.

Figure out the prehealth advising support at each school.

Health Professions Advising Office - Health Professions Advising

Welcome to the Office of Health Professions Advising! The HPA office advises UNC – CH students on the many pathways to a health professional career and the various career options […]

hpa.unc.edu

Under the Office of the Provost. Read their annual report.

Home page version 3

74% In the last 3 years, over 70% of our students were accepted into medical school on their first try. 200+ Each year, we advise over 200 students who are admitted to health professions programs. 40 yrs. Our team has a collective 40 years of experience in pre-health advising. Support Offered...

www.vanderbilt.edu

Unsure, but likely under their Office of the Provost. Read their annual report.

Health Professions – Office of Career Strategy – Yale University

The Health Professions Advising Program (HPAP) serves undergraduates and alumni of Yale College, students in the Graduate School of Arts & Sciences, and Postdoctoral Associates who are interest…

ocs.yale.edu

Under the Office of Career Strategy (Services)

Hi! Thank you for your response. However, I am taking organic chemistry this semester and took biochemistry last semester, meaning I am not concerned about the rigor of taking organic chemistry my first year at whichever school I choose. My academics have been way outside the norm.
I will look at the annual reports for each school.

 

[AJS59]

My suggestion is pick your school as if you ultimately decide not to pursue medical school. Consider the debt tradeoffs vs other opportunities and what its like to live there, you only get college once

 

[superpike]

As someone who was in a similar position a gazillion years ago (full ride at WUSTL vs Yale), I recommend that you simply go to the school that you like that you can afford. Things change and you're really young. You may decide not to be premed, in which case you probably would regret not going to Yale. You could gain early admission to a program like Mt Sinai's FlexMed program (which is popular among Yalies). Hell, you could even be like me and do a post bacc program down the line (and when I was 17, I thought I would go to law school -- not med school)! I wouldn't base your decision now based on your aspiration to pursue medicine.
Also, I went to Yale and there is an organic chemistry class that's quite popular among first years there (the lectures are posted online). I am responding to the comment that "no chemistry program working with a prehealth advising office should/would let freshman take organic chemistry in their first semester."

 

[Mr.Smile12]

....
Also, I went to Yale and there is an organic chemistry class that's quite popular among first years there (the lectures are posted online). I am responding to the comment that "no chemistry program working with a prehealth advising office should/would let freshman take organic chemistry in their first semester."

That's fair, and if a department has such a path, find out. The question is grading policy. Lots of smart people go to Yale and not all freshmen get A's (unless the grading policy allows it).

 

[LizzyM]

It is foolish to take o-chem as a freshman. As much as you may think that you are hot stuff, you can get yourself into a hole (mentally, even if the GPA is still rather good) that's tough to climb out of. Better to do anything else as a freshman and leave o-chem to sophomore year.

 

[deleted1214755]

It is foolish to take o-chem as a freshman. As much as you may think that you are hot stuff, you can get yourself into a hole (mentally, even if the GPA is still rather good) that's tough to climb out of. Better to do anything else as a freshman and leave o-chem to sophomore year.

Hi,
Thank you for your response. As I mentioned above in reply to someone else, I am taking organic chemistry this semester and took biochemistry last semester, meaning I am not concerned about the rigor of taking organic chemistry my first year at whichever college I choose. My academics have been way outside the norm.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi,
Thank you for your response. As I mentioned above in reply to someone else, I am taking organic chemistry this semester and took biochemistry last semester, meaning I am not concerned about the rigor of taking organic chemistry my first year at whichever college I choose. My academics have been way outside the norm.

Are these college courses for college credit? If not, you may be overestimating your capacity to handle a weed-out course in a highly competitive university setting.

 

[LizzyM]

yale unless you are low to mid income

Isn't Yale offering huge scholarships to low mid-income students? I know that there was some grumbling about the expectation that students would earn over the summer, etc and that has loosened up. I would substitute the word "if" in place of "unless".

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Yale announces 2024-25 term bill, reaffirms financial aid commitments

Yale College announced the term bill for next academic year and reaffirmed its commitment to meet the full demonstrated financial need of all undergraduates.

news.yale.edu

Yale College does not expect parents earning less than $75,000 annually — with typical assets — to make any contribution toward the cost of their child’s education. The financial aid offers for these families, which are known as zero parent share offers, cover the full cost of all billed expenses — tuition, housing, the meal plan, and hospitalization insurance — as well as travel to and from New Haven.

While there is no income cutoff for financial aid eligibility, families with incomes below $150,000, on average, are not asked to pay tuition for their students’ education. Some families with over $200,000 in annual income receive significant need-based aid from Yale. Scholarship grants range from a few thousand dollars to more than $80,000 per academic year. All financial aid offers are based entirely on a family’s demonstrated financial need.

 

[superpike]

As a Yale alum, I’ll reiterate that if he decides to attend Yale and places into freshman organic chemistry (CHEM 125a), it’s really not that big of a deal. As long as he earns at least a B, he’ll receive acceleration credit for General Chemistry—knocking out two requirements at once. I have plenty of friends who did just that and went on to med schools like Sinai, Mayo, and Harvard.

While the caution around taking orgo as a freshman is absolutely valid for 99% of students, I think it’s worth acknowledging that, between his Vanderbilt scholarship and Yale admission, OP is probably in the top 0.1% academically.
.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

As a Yale alum, I’ll reiterate that if he decides to attend Yale and places into freshman organic chemistry (CHEM 125a), it’s really not that big of a deal. As long as he earns at least a B, he’ll receive acceleration credit for General Chemistry—knocking out two requirements at once. I have plenty of friends who did just that and went on to med schools like Sinai, Mayo, and Harvard.

While the caution around taking orgo as a freshman is absolutely valid for 99% of students, I think it’s worth acknowledging that, between his Vanderbilt scholarship and Yale admission, OP is probably in the top 0.1% academically.
.

That's fair, but the OP probably wants to be in every position to leverage a super GPA, MCAT prep, and research for the best-possible application; I don't think you want to give the OP a heart attack suggesting the possibility they might make a B in organic. 🙂 🙂

Furthermore, if this candidate is that competitive, the OP should likely consider other international scholarship opportunities like the Rhodes, Churchill, Truman, or similar. If that's the case, why not go for that OxCam experience? Or degree? 🙂 Heck, the CV scholarship includes tuition for a study abroad experience (Home Page).

 

[phantasmo]

Isn't Yale offering huge scholarships to low mid-income students? I know that there was some grumbling about the expectation that students would earn over the summer, etc and that has loosened up. I would substitute the word "if" in place of "unless".

there's this sweet spot of middle class / middle income where you don't get fin aid, but also would break the bank. that's the only case where you kinda get screwed into picking the school that gives money.

the rich kids can afford yale, the low income get generous fin aid

 

[Anthodite]

Hello! I am a high school senior working to decide upon which college to attend. I am very grateful for the options I have, but at the same time, I am very confused! If anyone has first-hand accounts of the pre-med experience at any of these schools (with the details I'm providing below in mind), I would greatly appreciate the information! I am planning to major in biomedical engineering. For context, I am a National Merit Scholar.

I am in state for UNC-Chapel Hill and was admitted to Honors Carolina, which includes perks like priority registration and smaller honors classes. It is an amazing school for pre-med. However, I am concerned about getting into the the classes and professors I want where it is doable to make the necessary grades for pre-med. Specifically, I would have a lot of transfer credits and prior rigorous coursework causing me to be ready for classes like organic chemistry in my first year, which I might not be able to get due to seats in upper-level courses not being held for freshman. Also, I get the impression it is likely cut-throat and extremely competitive to get necessary opportunities like shadowing, research and volunteering.

For Vanderbilt, I understand that the Cornelius Vanderbilt scholarship (full-tuition and 1 summer stipend) encompasses some of "the best" academic students at Vanderbilt. However, one of my big concerns is related to seeing students discuss online how terrible some of the pre-med requirements, like organic chemistry, can be due to the classes being "weed out" classes making it nearly impossible to make As. (Although UNC has a similar reputation in regards to the pre-med "weed out" classes, I would get transfer credit for many of the courses and Honors Carolina offers small, 24-30 student classes that supposedly offer a better experience). I have also read that biomedical engineering is the hardest major at Vanderbilt and pre-meds tend to choose neuroscience to protect their GPAs. I am not concerned about the challenge and rigor, but I am concerned about maintaining the necessary GPA for top medical schools.

In terms of Yale, I've been leaning towards Yale since December, although I've been vacillating due to the cost, which is obviously a big component. However, I ultimately feel that Yale offers unparalleled opportunities within the undergraduate years and my understanding is that it yields extraordinarily high acceptance rates to top 10 medical schools. I'm also very attracted to their biomedical engineering, since one of their focus areas seems to be biomedical devices and collaborating with the medical school.

P.S. I'm trying to focus this post on the pre-med experience so you all can understand my thought process. I am also very active outside the classroom in a variety of activities and have an extroverted personality, so I need to find a good fit for all of this.

Others have said this before but please prioritize your financial comfort in affording theses schools. You never know what if your family will go through bankruptcy or if you have falling out with parents who won’t pay for you anymore (good luck trying to convince your school and fafsa that you’re financially independent/parent won’t pay when you’re unmarried+under 24). Take it from someone who’s older than you I promise a shiney degree from a fancy named college won’t mean much to you when you’re swimming in debt and can’t afford to rent an apartment or lease a car.

They all are great research schools and with nearby/affiliated hospitals to give you opportunities. Premed classes at any college is pretty much a “weeder” course, yes even at community colleges.

It doesn’t matter if the school is a known party school or socially dead, what matters is what you make of it and what opportunities you try to seek out. College is your own DIY path in every way, so please choose the path of least financial resistance.

Helpful tip: look up schools name + “cost of attendance” and reference it with your financial aid packet. That should give you an idea for the next four years.

 

[deleted1214755]

Are these college courses for college credit? If not, you may be overestimating your capacity to handle a weed-out course in a highly competitive university setting.

Yes, these are college-level courses. To be clear, my question did NOT ask for advice about whether I should take organic chemistry freshman year (it is a given that I will be). It is unfortunate that, on a forum intended for those planning to attend medical school, there exists the rigid perspective you are exhibiting and the disrespect shown in your 'eye roll' emoji at my response explaining my advanced academics and need for accelerated coursework. I should not need to list my IQ score, my standardized test scores, or my rigorous coursework in order to justify me mentioning taking organic chemistry freshman year as an example of my need for acceleration. If you are a chemistry faculty at UNC or Vanderbilt, you've unintentionally let me know that neither of these are the right fit for me. If you are not a faculty member or have not attended any of these schools, I do not believe your opinions are relevant to my question.
Edit: Furthermore, your response is insulting to my highly qualified biochemistry and organic chemistry professors for this year who have Ph.D. degrees from top universities.

 

[deleted1214755]

As a Yale alum, I’ll reiterate that if he decides to attend Yale and places into freshman organic chemistry (CHEM 125a), it’s really not that big of a deal. As long as he earns at least a B, he’ll receive acceleration credit for General Chemistry—knocking out two requirements at once. I have plenty of friends who did just that and went on to med schools like Sinai, Mayo, and Harvard.

While the caution around taking orgo as a freshman is absolutely valid for 99% of students, I think it’s worth acknowledging that, between his Vanderbilt scholarship and Yale admission, OP is probably in the top 0.1% academically.
.

Thank you for your insightful and relevant information! This perspective is very helpful in seeing that Yale would likely be a great fit for my academics. If I attend Yale, I will be taking a placement exam to place me into one of the organic chemistry sequences to take freshman year.

 

[Mr. Macrophage]

I do not believe your opinions are relevant to my question.

You realize you’re talking to LizzyM, right? The LM score is named after them. They’re an active member of an admissions committee and have decades of experience in both premed advising and admissions. If you listen to anyone on this forum, it should be them.

Taking organic chemistry as a freshman is certainly possible. Heck, I know that at Brown University and several other colleges that’s actually the normal pathway. However, you need to consider that LizzyM was advising you to be careful because there are countless premeds who have come before you and taken such classes too early and significantly damaged their GPA.

You’ve come here for advice and to ask questions of experts. These experts, including LizzyM, are doing you a favor by replying to you. You could certainly be nicer and more respectful in your replies!

 

[deleted1214755]

You realize you’re talking to LizzyM, right? The LM score is named after them. They’re an active member of an admissions committee and have decades of experience in both premed advising and admissions. If you listen to anyone on this forum, it should be them.

Taking organic chemistry as a freshman is certainly possible. Heck, I know that at Brown University and several other colleges that’s actually the normal pathway. However, you need to consider that LizzyM was advising you to be careful because there are countless premeds who have come before you and taken such classes too early and significantly damaged their GPA.

You’ve come here for advice and to ask questions of experts. These experts, including LizzyM, are doing you a favor by replying to you. You could certainly be nicer and more respectful in your replies!

Please see her eye roll emoji reaction to my post. This was beyond disrespectful; it was plain rude.
Thank you and I do not need any more information because I have narrowed down my options after also receiving an acceptance to Duke.

 

[ger1atric]

Yes, these are college-level courses. To be clear, my question did NOT ask for advice about whether I should take organic chemistry freshman year (it is a given that I will be). It is unfortunate that, on a forum intended for those planning to attend medical school, there exists the rigid perspective you are exhibiting and the disrespect shown in your 'eye roll' emoji at my response explaining my advanced academics and need for accelerated coursework. I should not need to list my IQ score, my standardized test scores, or my rigorous coursework in order to justify me mentioning taking organic chemistry freshman year as an example of my need for acceleration. If you are a chemistry faculty at UNC or Vanderbilt, you've unintentionally let me know that neither of these are the right fit for me. If you are not a faculty member or have not attended any of these schools, I do not believe your opinions are relevant to my question.
Edit: Furthermore, your response is insulting to my highly qualified biochemistry and organic chemistry professors for this year. One has his Bachelor's from Dartmouth and his Ph.D. from Cornell, while the other has his Bachelor's from Duke and his Ph.D. from UT Austin.

Respectfully, if you're asking for advice but choose to listen to only posts that you agree with, why are you asking for advice to begin with? Almost everyone on these forums is likely older and has significantly more experience than you do at the moment and are choosing to share their wisdom with you. It's quite disrespectful to argue against advice given even if you disagree. With such a close-minded and disrespectful attitude, you may want to reconsider if medicine is the right path for you.

 

[Mr. Macrophage]

Please see her eye roll emoji reaction to my post. This was beyond disrespectful; it was plain rude.
Thank you and I do not need any more information because I have narrowed down my options after also receiving an acceptance to Duke.

They reacted with an eyeroll emoji because of the way you talk and present yourself.

 

[phantasmo]

Please see her eye roll emoji reaction to my post. This was beyond disrespectful; it was plain rude.
Thank you and I do not need any more information because I have narrowed down my options after also receiving an acceptance to Duke.

congrats great school. would still pick yale unless duke throws money

you'll do great wherever. I'd just lean yale because it's better if you don't want to commit to medicine and decide you want to do something cooler. or do things in addition to medicine.

you'll network with crazy elite/cool people

just get ready for some adversity and always pull yourself back up.

 

[phantasmo]

Thank you for your insightful and relevant information! This perspective is very helpful in seeing that Yale would likely be a great fit for my academics. If I attend Yale, I will be taking a placement exam to place me into one of the organic chemistry sequences to take freshman year.

also if your goal is premed purely. this is a bad strat (unless you really care about learning and possibly at a cost to gpa).

for premed, purely, you just want an easy and high gpa. ofc if you want to get the prereqs out of the way to learn cool things or get to a high level, go ahead. it doesn't help in med admissions at all though.

 

[phantasmo]

Yes, these are college-level courses. To be clear, my question did NOT ask for advice about whether I should take organic chemistry freshman year (it is a given that I will be). It is unfortunate that, on a forum intended for those planning to attend medical school, there exists the rigid perspective you are exhibiting and the disrespect shown in your 'eye roll' emoji at my response explaining my advanced academics and need for accelerated coursework. I should not need to list my IQ score, my standardized test scores, or my rigorous coursework in order to justify me mentioning taking organic chemistry freshman year as an example of my need for acceleration. If you are a chemistry faculty at UNC or Vanderbilt, you've unintentionally let me know that neither of these are the right fit for me. If you are not a faculty member or have not attended any of these schools, I do not believe your opinions are relevant to my question.
Edit: Furthermore, your response is insulting to my highly qualified biochemistry and organic chemistry professors for this year. One has his Bachelor's from Dartmouth and his Ph.D. from Cornell, while the other has his Bachelor's from Duke and his Ph.D. from UT Austin.

didn't see this. a huge mix of ngmi and gmi but you're going to hit a really stiff wall at some point. your future depends on how you climb it. you're missing key skills/mindset/worldview. i hope you find them quick for your sake.

when it happens (it = burnout/the wall) make sure you have a support system.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Please see her eye roll emoji reaction to my post. This was beyond disrespectful; it was plain rude.
Thank you and I do not need any more information because I have narrowed down my options after also receiving an acceptance to Duke.

Dude... that's not rude. We're having a sidebar conversation about organic chemistry for freshmen being historically a bad idea. You can ignore it if you don't think it's applicable to you.

Is the Duke option also a free ride (AB Duke scholarship)?