Weird take from a guy who posted just a few years ago with a clear understanding that it might not be financially worth it to blow your savings and give up the opportunity cost of being a general dentist for the 3 years you’d be in residency. Also a guy who claims to know specialists who love being a specialist and specialists who wish they had stayed GPs.
I did practice general before I did ortho, and I don't agree.
Happy for you that you feel more fulfilled in your work and congrats on getting in and finishing ortho residency. It may have been the right choice for you, but don’t act like anyone questioning the profession is a fool for doing so. You questioned whether it made sense financially just a few years ago. For many people, it’s not the right financial decision. For everybody, it’s probably easier on their back.
Yeah, I dont know if I believe that. Almost exactly 3 years ago, you were in the pre-contemplation stage, asking others if you think its worth it to go to ortho residency. Very slim chance you could make up your mind, and get into a 2 year program in that amount of time.
And all I'm saying is that it's quite possible your perception of the field will change once you are actually working as an orthodontist.
I'm with you.
Absolutely, it was a good amount of effort since dental school started. I was very fortunate to have matched to an inexpensive 2-year program. After getting accepted, I've been trying to get a better sense of the ortho market, because ortho is definitely my favorite part of dentistry; however, opportunity cost is real.
The fact that you’re thinking like this shows me that you will be successful no matter which route you take.
If you got into a cheap residency and are sick of GD, I'd still do it even given the cons but to each their own. Even if you make less than you do a GD, I'd rather make a little less and enjoy what I do.
I don’t get why so many young orthos are opposing to the idea of traveling to multiple offices. It’s not like you have to drive from home to office A and then to office B and then to office C in the same day. Going to work at 8 different offices is the same as going to work at 1 office. I actually prefer having multiple part time jobs. If one office fires me or goes out of business, I still have the other 7 offices to go work at…..still a full time job for me. But if I only had 2 jobs and one of them let me go, then half of my work days/income would be gone.
I don’t get the big deal of multiple offices either. I work at 5-6 offices as a GP. It helps keep my schedule as productive as possible, and if an office starts to become problematic (not paying, no assistants, etc), I drop them. You are also almost always blissfully unaware of any office drama if you are only there once a week or once a month! It’s so much less stress than one full-time job.
The problem with multiple offices is this: orthodontists can delegate a lot. In fact, they have to delegate a lot. In order to be profitable in orthodontics, you have to see a lot of patients. New patient consults happening at the same time as a bonding braces for a new case start. Two patients in the chair for adjustments the same time a new clear aligner is happening in a different chair. There is no possible way the orthodontist can do all of that. The assistant has to do so much of it. In these places where you are only there a day or two of the month, you may have staff that is only doing ortho a day or two of the month. it takes a while to become competent at doing these procedures. A good assistant who is a fast learner can become competent in 6 months to a year, if they are working full time. Imagine how difficult it is to become competent working 1-2 days per month. So the big issue is that the orthodontist has to basically do all or most the work themselves, and is constantly dealing with running behind in the schedule or trying to teach assistants how to do things. Assistants will inevitably do things wrong. They aren't going to want to work with you long term if its only a few days a month. They dont see it as their job, but rather more like "filling in". Its a super frustrating experience for an orthodontist in these situations.
Ok, very fair points! Thank you for explaining. I get it now.
4 of the 8 offices, that I’ve traveled to work at, only have enough patients for 1 day a month. These are some of the ways that I do to help minimize getting emergency calls from the patients:
Patient’s tx satisfaction is very important to me. Word of mouth referral is very important in helping to bring the new patients to my practice. It’s also my license and my reputation that I am trying to protect.
What makes you say that? The lifestyle still has its drawbacks. Early morning starts (5 AM), traveling as a mobile provider (sometimes over an hour each way) etc. not to mention DA has a high barrier for entry now with the CBSE being a requirement. Not to mention the three years of grueling residency, taking call and dealing in life or death situations. Also limited by only having ~30 spots each year. I don’t think DA will be come the new ortho anytime soon
A lot of those are perks. One of the DA I know starts at 6:30am and finishes at 3:30pm. Another one charges offices upfront otherwise they won’t show to the clinic (charge $8k per day).
Highly competitive to get into, high pay, low physical stress/msk strain post-grad. Not discrediting the seriousness of DA. The skeleton’s very similar - the meat is different.
Extremely helpful, thank you for sharing your experience after graduating!
Also, just did the math and say the average full-time ortho in a metro area is $1,350 and works 4 days a week with 4 weeks off a year. Comes out to $259k a year. Do you think it's reasonable to aim for 4 days a week in a desirable area, or is timing/luck/location really important with that?
To me, traveling to multiple offices is pro and not a con. Like what Niko472 said above, I don’t have to face any of the office dramas because I am only there one day (or a few days) a month. And I get to try different delicious meals at different restaurants nearby the offices where I go to work at.
You can choose the number of days you want to work per week. It's up to you. The more offices you want to go to work at, the more days you will get. Why limit yourself to 3 or 4 days a wk? Especially when you have a lot of student loans to pay back....when you're concerned that making $250k is not enough. Why not travel to to more offices and work 6 days/wk and make $400k?
You won my referrals for the honesty. You take patients from out of state?
Whereabouts are you located?
Yeah, opportunity cost is huge, especially when you're making around the same income as an ortho as a GD. 2-3 years of lost income to make the same amount of money if you didn't specialize, lol.
I am in Socal. The offices I am traveling to work at are in OC, LA, Riverside, and San Bernadino counties. The dental corp I work for has 60-70 offices in CA and 200+ offices in TX (TX is their largest market), Fl, Colorado, and a few other states. There are plenty of job offers at corp offices and GP offices. You have to be proactive in a job search. The less picky you are, the more jobs you will get. And the more days you work, the more places will notice your skills....and you have better chance to demand a pay raise.
I’ve worked for the corp offices for 25+ years. And I’ve worked in the same building with a lot of general dentists. I can tell you that my work is 100 times easier than theirs. My hours are much more predictable. If a pulp chamber is exposed during the caries excavation, a GP has to stay longer to do RCT, Post buildup and crown prep. There is no such unforeseeable complication in ortho that requires me to work through lunch or to stay late. My work shift is 9am-6pm. Lunch hour is from 1-2pm but I always finish before 12:10-12:15 and have close to 2 hours for lunch. And I usually go home at 5:10-5:15pm. I don’t know why some of my colleagues think ortho is hard. It’s so easy for me. Perhaps, I have a high tolerance for hard work?
Good job, Pablo. I started my very first ortho associate job when I was 29. When I turned 30, I had also accumulated more than $1M…..but in the other direction…..a $1M in debt (student loans, home loan, practice loans etc). By my mid 30s, I owed close to $2M in debt (we took out more loans to purchase some rental properties). The massive debt amount had forced me to work 6 days/wk until I turned 49, when I paid off my last debt. Now at 54, I think am way ahead (financially) of many of the doctors who are at my age. Many of them still have debt to pay back. I am glad that I am an ortho because the job is easy…..not as hard on my hands and back (because the assistants do most of the manual labor)….that’s why I could tolerate the 6-day work week for a very long time (20 years straight).
And the liability and stress of medical emergencies where patients can die.
Yes, and if that is stressful for you than you shouldn’t be a DA.
Are you a DA?
I think there are like 9 programs and ~30-40 seats available.
30 spots
