Options and real estate wedlock - a beginner level trade on a real estate backed asset

[sloh]

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Honestly…i don’t even understand where the stigma that doctors are terrible with money comes from.

All of the younger docs at least are all aggressively investing in index funds, they’ve all read WCI or have some degree of financial education.

I’m yet to meet a doc whose spending 300-400k a year, living pay check to pay check. Seems like an unfair stigma we carry.

I live in Southern California. I can tell you a lot of physicians I know are not really significantly saving, even if they aren't splurging on exotic cars and travel. The cost of living is so high relative to their household income that they are basically treading water.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

You'd be surprised. I can think of 2 docs in my current group that are literally over 70 and working as FTEs. One of them has to work 7 overnights this month and swings to days then back to nights over the course of 2 weeks. The other guy freely admits that he doesn't have enough saved due to a divorce and "giving it all away to my kids", etc.. One doc from my old group...we had to pull him off the schedule at 75 because his health was just failing and he started not showing up for shifts or could barely make it through one. He had several divorces. Divorce without a prenup is probably the number one threat to any physician or high earner unless they are married to a spouse with commensurate earning potential.

Another thing I've noticed during my career are so many docs that think they are just as good at business vs practicing medicine. Half blow up their savings on a bad business venture. Half end up pulling it off.

What's got me mystified are the new grads who are increasingly scaling back right out of residency working 0.8/0.6FTE, etc.. Most say they are "burned out" right out of residency or seem less interested in money/savings and more interested in quality of life. All that is perfectly fine of course but I'm not sure how things will turn out for them because if they are truly burned out, how do they expect to work a full career? (Which they will no doubt have to do since they are only working 0.8FTE). Then you factor in the lost savings from working hard those first few years out and piling it away for compounding.

Residency now trains them to understand that every time they are tired or care is delayed or the vending machine malfunctions that they suffer from burnout and moral injury.

 

[sloh]

What's got me mystified are the new grads who are increasingly scaling back right out of residency working 0.8/0.6FTE, etc.. Most say they are "burned out" right out of residency or seem less interested in money/savings and more interested in quality of life. All that is perfectly fine of course but I'm not sure how things will turn out for them because if they are truly burned out, how do they expect to work a full career? (Which they will no doubt have to do since they are only working 0.8FTE). Then you factor in the lost savings from working hard those first few years out and piling it away for compounding.

There was a recent study that was published in November 2025 that basically showed the psychology behind what you're seeing. Basically, as the likelihood of homeownership drifted further and further, younger people worked less, didn't work as hard, and actually engaged in riskier investments. Check out the quote below, it's from the study:

"The model also shows that as households' perceived probability of attaining homeownership falls, they systematically shift their behavior: they consume more relative to their wealth, reduce work effort, and take on riskier investments. We show empirically that renters with relatively low wealth exhibit the same patterns. These responses compound over the life cycle, producing substantially greater wealth dispersion between those who retain hope of homeownership and those who give up. We propose a targeted subsidy that lifts the largest number of young renters above the "giving-up threshold." This policy yields welfare gains that are 3.2 times those of a uniform transfer and 10.3 times those of a transfer targeted to the bottom 10% of the wealth distribution, while also increasing homeownership rate, raising work effort, and reducing reliance on the social safety net."

I think you're seeing something similar with new grads. The chance of them actually hitting retirement with enough money seems so far out of reach that they just check out prematurely.

here's the study below if you actually want to read the entire thing.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5770722

 

[cyanide12345678]

There was a recent study that was published in November 2025 that basically showed the psychology behind what you're seeing. Basically, as the likelihood of homeownership drifted further and further, younger people worked less, didn't work as hard, and actually engaged in riskier investments. Check out the quote below, it's from the study:

"The model also shows that as households' perceived probability of attaining homeownership falls, they systematically shift their behavior: they consume more relative to their wealth, reduce work effort, and take on riskier investments. We show empirically that renters with relatively low wealth exhibit the same patterns. These responses compound over the life cycle, producing substantially greater wealth dispersion between those who retain hope of homeownership and those who give up. We propose a targeted subsidy that lifts the largest number of young renters above the "giving-up threshold." This policy yields welfare gains that are 3.2 times those of a uniform transfer and 10.3 times those of a transfer targeted to the bottom 10% of the wealth distribution, while also increasing homeownership rate, raising work effort, and reducing reliance on the social safety net."

I think you're seeing something similar with new grads. The chance of them actually hitting retirement with enough money seems so far out of reach that they just check out prematurely.

here's the study below if you actually want to read the entire thing.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5770722

I am amongst those who cut down pretty early in my career. But i did so based on financial milestones achieved.

My income trajectory has been the following as a 2019 grad:

450k -> 400k -> 360k -> 300k -> 320k

450k - straight out, grinded at the highest paying team health site. Lived on 50k a year with family income of 500k.

2 years later, dropped hourly rate to a chill 1.2-1.3 pph critical access site for career longevity. 50k pay cut. The best damn hospital closed where i did a lot of my hours. It had a 6 bed ER.

Dropped to 0.8 fte once net worth grew

Dropped to 0.6 fte (6.5 monthly shifts) + 2 PRN shifts at another site - income dropped to 300k including the prn work. Lived the good 8.5 monthly shifts life for almost a year. It was actually painful looking at my biweekly paycheck of $4500 at my w2 gig after maxing 401kk, 457b, hsa, and all the insurance premiums.

Income up to 320k. But working an average of 10-11 monthly 12 hour shifts at the VA now as of this month. Hourly rate dropped into the 225 range. This is the lowest hourly job I’ve ever had as an attending.

I can’t wait to be 0.75 fte at the VA. Looking forward to that next pay cut as soon as someone lets me (likely after the 2 year probation period).

Literally my whole life has been pay cut after pay cut in search of a cure for my burn out. The less i need to work, the more i feel the burn out.

 

[cyanide12345678]

I live in Southern California. I can tell you a lot of physicians I know are not really significantly saving, even if they aren't splurging on exotic cars and travel. The cost of living is so high relative to their household income that they are basically treading water.

I guess it’s not that hard to save in Indiana in comparison 😂

 

[Groove]

Ghost Analyst — FSLR Initiation

Ghost Analyst — PINS Initiation

 

[skougess]

I am amongst those who cut down pretty early in my career. But i did so based on financial milestones achieved.

My income trajectory has been the following as a 2019 grad:

450k -> 400k -> 360k -> 300k -> 320k

450k - straight out, grinded at the highest paying team health site. Lived on 50k a year with family income of 500k.

2 years later, dropped hourly rate to a chill 1.2-1.3 pph critical access site for career longevity. 50k pay cut. The best damn hospital closed where i did a lot of my hours. It had a 6 bed ER.

Dropped to 0.8 fte once net worth grew

Dropped to 0.6 fte + 2 PRN shifts at another site - income dropped to 300k including the prn work. Lived the good 8.5 shifts per month life for almost a year. It was actually painful looking at my biweekly paycheck of $4500 at my w2 gig after maxing 401kk, 457b, hsa, and all the insurance premiums.

Income up to 320k. But working an average of 10-11 monthly 12 hour shifts at the VA now as of this month. Hourly rate dropped into the 225 range.

I can’t wait to be 0.75 fte at the VA. Looking forward to that next pay cut as soon as someone lets me (likely after the 2 year probation period).

Literally my whole life has been pay cut after pay cut in search of a cure for my burn out. The less i need to work, the more i feel the burn out.

Love that trajectory. Totally agree and I’ve posted it before. The more you have in net worth, the more painful the shifts are and the less you need to work in order to not go f’in crazy.

 

[sloh]

I am amongst those who cut down pretty early in my career. But i did so based on financial milestones achieved.

My income trajectory has been the following as a 2019 grad:

450k -> 400k -> 360k -> 300k -> 320k

450k - straight out, grinded at the highest paying team health site. Lived on 50k a year with family income of 500k.

2 years later, dropped hourly rate to a chill 1.2-1.3 pph critical access site for career longevity. 50k pay cut. The best damn hospital closed where i did a lot of my hours. It had a 6 bed ER.

Dropped to 0.8 fte once net worth grew

Dropped to 0.6 fte + 2 PRN shifts at another site - income dropped to 300k including the prn work. Lived the good 8.5 shifts per month life for almost a year. It was actually painful looking at my biweekly paycheck of $4500 at my w2 gig after maxing 401kk, 457b, hsa, and all the insurance premiums.

Income up to 320k. But working an average of 10-11 monthly 12 hour shifts at the VA now as of this month. Hourly rate dropped into the 225 range. This is the lowest hourly job I’ve ever had as an attending.

I can’t wait to be 0.75 fte at the VA. Looking forward to that next pay cut as soon as someone lets me (likely after the 2 year probation period).

Literally my whole life has been pay cut after pay cut in search of a cure for my burn out. The less i need to work, the more i feel the burn out.

The important thing is that your income during the first couple of years is actually considered quite high when you factor in the year you completed training. you also did quite well with options/trading. The above two allowed you to sock away a lot of money into your investments, which essentially propelled you on the trajectory to financial independence. which is all to say, you did a great job, man 🙌🏻

 

[skougess]

The important thing is that your income during the first couple of years is actually considered quite high when you factor in the year you completed training. you also did quite well with options/trading. The above two allowed you to sock away a lot of money into your investments, which essentially propelled you on the trajectory to financial independence. which is all to say, you did a great job, man 🙌🏻

To be fair, you don’t need to be at cyanide wealth to cut back a bit. I think going to 0.8 FTE right out of residency is kinda nuts, but to their credit, if you can’t make $250-300k/yr work then you have bigger problems than the amount of shifts you are working.

Theres a lot of us (me included) who are more than happy with a 15-20 year downshifted career and $2.5m (2026 dollars) retirement nest egg at the end of it. And honestly making $250-300k and working what most Americans would consider “part time” is essentially a dream situation.

I’d be willing to bet at the end of it all, most everyone on this thread, including me, will die with millions in the bank, having worked much more than we ever needed to.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Ghost Analyst — FSLR Initiation

Ghost Analyst — PINS Initiation

THANK YOU.

Fyi pcg is another electric company that is officially under valued despite growing demand.

 

[Birdstrike]

You old timers lived through the good days of medicine and got to enjoy the longest bull run from 2009 to now.

Yes, but risk surrounds every moment that looks like a sure thing in retrospect. Sure, it was a great run IF you lump summed in at the 2009 bottom and were isolated from all the risk that surrounded that moment. But gains are rarely linear or easily predictable.

What I had to ride out to benefit from the '09 bottom:

1. Lost most of my first investment in the 2000 dot-com crash. It took 10 years for the market to get back to even in 2009.
2. Started DCAing into my 401K in 2004, then the S&P fell 58% in 2008. As a young attending with loans and a growing family, I had little free cash to lump-sum at the bottom, like most people.
3. My house lost 50% in the '08 housing crash and took 15 years to recover. I was in my mid-30s with a negative six-figure net worth.
4. Missed two years of gains related to my Pain fellowship, including an 85% pay cut for a year. Worth it, but sometimes a monetary investment takes a back seat to a quality of life investment.
5. The 2016-2026 run required diamond hands through the 2020 COVID crash and the 2022 bear market. I didn't sell a thing, but some people panic sold and missed the recovery.

I've done very well, despite the bumps. Some might say I've won the game, or am very close. But it wasn't easy, certain or risk free.

 

[cyanide12345678]

The important thing is that your income during the first couple of years is actually considered quite high when you factor in the year you completed training. you also did quite well with options/trading. The above two allowed you to sock away a lot of money into your investments, which essentially propelled you on the trajectory to financial independence. which is all to say, you did a great job, man 🙌🏻

the real thing that allowed me to cut down was a reasonable lifestyle in the mid west. Honestly, if i had a 2 million dollar home in California, the stress of that mortgage would keep me working full time. A 620k mortgage and living in the mid west was the real key.

 

[skougess]

the real thing that allowed me to cut down was a reasonable lifestyle in the mid west. Honestly, if i had a 2 million dollar home in California, the stress of that mortgage would keep me working full time. A 620k mortgage and living in the mid west was the real key.

Being able to live in a lower COL city is one of the biggest perks of medicine. Many good careers have a few “boom towns” they have to live in to really get traction, which cuts down on disposable/investment income.

Unless you plan to move away from California once you are finished with your working years to cash out on your home equity, it’s just lost money.

 

[miamidoc101]

I am amongst those who cut down pretty early in my career. But i did so based on financial milestones achieved.

My income trajectory has been the following as a 2019 grad:

450k -> 400k -> 360k -> 300k -> 320k

450k - straight out, grinded at the highest paying team health site. Lived on 50k a year with family income of 500k.

2 years later, dropped hourly rate to a chill 1.2-1.3 pph critical access site for career longevity. 50k pay cut. The best damn hospital closed where i did a lot of my hours. It had a 6 bed ER.

Dropped to 0.8 fte once net worth grew

Dropped to 0.6 fte (6.5 monthly shifts) + 2 PRN shifts at another site - income dropped to 300k including the prn work. Lived the good 8.5 monthly shifts life for almost a year. It was actually painful looking at my biweekly paycheck of $4500 at my w2 gig after maxing 401kk, 457b, hsa, and all the insurance premiums.

Income up to 320k. But working an average of 10-11 monthly 12 hour shifts at the VA now as of this month. Hourly rate dropped into the 225 range. This is the lowest hourly job I’ve ever had as an attending.

I can’t wait to be 0.75 fte at the VA. Looking forward to that next pay cut as soon as someone lets me (likely after the 2 year probation period).

Literally my whole life has been pay cut after pay cut in search of a cure for my burn out. The less i need to work, the more i feel the burn out.

my trajectory since graduating residency in 2022 (in my 4th year out, age 32):

500/550/750, with projection for 750 this year. Became med director at start of 3rd year out.

Hope to grind for 8 more years until age 40, then depending on the stock market start cutting back.

 

[emergentmd]

I know a doc who finished residency at 28. 128K student loans. Married early 30's. 3rd kid at about 39 Yrs old. He made about 400k/yr but about 60K was forced SEP retirement. After Taxes, brought home about 250K.

Around 37, built a $900K home but had no debt b/c Student loans paid off in about 2 yrs. Prob had about 500K in retirement and another 200K in RE. Very little in the bank. NW around $1M if you count the home equity. Wife was a SHM so really 1 income. He didn't really splurge on much. Vacation but nothing extravagant. Cars new but in the 40-50K range, but not extravagant. MCOL city.

So close to 10 years, he had 3 kids and NW of $1M. This was me.

Looking back, other than a $1M home, we didn't really splurge on much. Sure we could have done the Ramsey But short of that, I can't really think of what we could have cut to save more. Apr 15 was always a pain because we would deplete most/all of our savings to pay taxes.

When you have 3 kids and SAHM, it is not easy to run your NW up quickly the 1st 10 years even with a high income starting from Zero.

Most on here have done better than I did my 1st 10-12 years since being an attending.

 

[Groove]

That's a very nice entry on the 4h and daily charts. It doesn't get much cleaner than that.

That's also its 7th golden cross.

 

[Porfirio]

Just to hit the infliction point on the compound interest curve takes 10-13 years. We all start out poor, and the first 10 years is the key to success. Year 11-15 is quality of life. Year 16-20 is legacy building.

 

[Groove]

META Coverage Update (HOLD, $760)

 

[cyanide12345678]

my trajectory since graduating residency in 2022 (in my 4th year out, age 32):

500/550/750, with projection for 750 this year. Became med director at start of 3rd year out.

Hope to grind for 8 more years until age 40, then depending on the stock market start cutting back.

How many hours for that 750? Great income. What’s the hourly.

 

[Splenda88]

I know a doc who finished residency at 28. 128K student loans. Married early 30's. 3rd kid at about 39 Yrs old. He made about 400k/yr but about 60K was forced SEP retirement. After Taxes, brought home about 250K.

Around 37, built a $900K home but had no debt b/c Student loans paid off in about 2 yrs. Prob had about 500K in retirement and another 200K in RE. Very little in the bank. NW around $1M if you count the home equity. Wife was a SHM so really 1 income. He didn't really splurge on much. Vacation but nothing extravagant. Cars new but in the 40-50K range, but not extravagant. MCOL city.

So close to 10 years, he had 3 kids and NW of $1M. This was me.

Looking back, other than a $1M home, we didn't really splurge on much. Sure we could have done the Ramsey But short of that, I can't really think of what we could have cut to save more. Apr 15 was always a pain because we would deplete most/all of our savings to pay taxes.

When you have 3 kids and SAHM, it is not easy to run your NW up quickly the 1st 10 years even with a high income starting from Zero.

Most on here have done better than I did my 1st 10-12 years since being an attending.

You are telling us that your net worth went from 1M to 10M+ in ~15 yrs...WTH

 

[skougess]

You are telling us that your net worth went from 1M to 10M+ in ~15 yrs...WTH

Entrepreneurship has a much higher ceiling than physician. Sounds like he was PRINTING with his FSEDs.

 

[Splenda88]

Entrepreneurship has a much higher ceiling than physician. Sounds like he was PRINTING with his FSEDs.

I see. I forgot that he had FSED(s). I though he has made all that money in real estate.

 

[emergentmd]

I see. I forgot that he had FSED(s). I though he has made all that money in real estate.

The Majority, about 80%, of my 1st 10M was RE. I could have FIRE on RE alone. I did get lucky with timing with buying before Covid/during Covid and low interest rates. The FSER is just icing on the cake and legacy.

All of these bought pre-covid from 2017-2021
My 1st big purchase was 6 pack of duplexes for $1M, requiring 300K down. Eventually sold all 6 over 5 years, for around 2.5M or 4x ROI.
Bought a Vaca property for 500K at 2.5% interest, 250K rehab/150K down, has about 90K loan. Place is now worth prob 2.5-3M. Keeping this for my kids to use because it is a beautiful place on one of the most popular lakes in Tx. ROI if sold today prob 7x at 9 yr mark.
Bought a Vaca property for 375K at 3% interest, 50K rehab, 100K down. Refinanced it to pull out my 150K and have about 300K in loan. Just put the property on the market for 800K.
Bought a college rental for 380K, low interest, 100K down, minimal rehab. Property prob worth north of 800K. Cash flowing so keeping it for now, Prob worth $1M+ in the next 5 yrs when. If my kids do not go to college at this school, will sell it. ROI if sold today prob 4x over 5 yrs.

More stories even with Post covid purchases that have done overall well but not as good as PreCovid where RE investors were printing money.

 

[miamidoc101]

How many hours for that 750? Great income. What’s the hourly.

i do anywhere from 120-140 hours a month clinically

 

[Groove]

THANK YOU.

Fyi pcg is another electric company that is officially under valued despite growing demand.

Ghost Analyst — PCG Initiation

 

[Janders]

I know a doc who finished residency at 28.

Most on here have done better than I did my 1st 10-12 years since being an attending.

yeah I was turning 29 as I graduated. I wish fidelity had an easier look-back so I could give better numbers, but I had less debt (say 30k) at graduation, but worked a lower paying job my first two years out til I got into a solid group set up. My wife worked but had a modest paying job never approaching 6 figures at the time.

However little things add up— We shared one car for 5 years as she could walk to work, I was on her benefits and got the difference as extra income, and while she didnt make a ton it was all bonus cash, etc. We had two kids and then bought the house, etc. We paid off the debt my first 6mo out, and prolly saved around 150k/year thereafter (the first year was rough!, but we were used to living cheap! Sometimes it was a bit more than 150 but never more than 200). That said we burned 200k on a home downpayment, which seemed egregious at the time.

But yeah, 10 years out NW was prolly in the 1.5-1.7 range counting the home equity; the market wasn’t flying all of those years, and two kids, day care, getting a house, a second car, wife switched to just some part-time work as double daycare was a cost sink (aside from the life choice aspect)…. We saved a lot but it didn’t feel impressive?

Anyway, turns out Porfirio is right about inflection curves (and the last 6 years of the markets). The numbers may not raise your eyebrows the first 10 years, but it’s the foundation for success.

 

[Janders]

How many hours for that 750? Great income. What’s the hourly.

Yeah those are killer numbers.

 

[Porfirio]

RE preCOVID and during COVID was solid and likely never to happen again. Loans for 2.5-3.5% interest would be amazing right now for me because at this stage I finally have spare $$ to invest in RE. But here I am piling it all in stocks instead. Man, it would be sweet to have a vacation property (STR) right now.

 

[Janders]

I see many more mid-career docs that are trapped in lifestyle than young docs.

I see way more docs in the 55yo-70yo generation that are stuck in the rat race, often d/t repeated divorce or insane lifestyle choices. I also know a few still working because it truly is a calling and life to them (not EM, other fields).

I find the people in the 35-45yo range tend to be better educated, i suspect due to WCI, the concept of FIRE, the democratization of broad ETFs to everyone, etc. I see a higher proportion of them saving hard, living moderately, noting they don’t feel they have 20+ years more to give. I do know a few who do want their VHCHOL penthouse in a cool area, and a spicy car, but a relative minority.

I think associated with the more reasonable save/spent ethos of my younger cohort, you find some people eager to work 0.6-0.8FTE. Often the same people drive 12yr beat up Hondas and live in homes well within their comfort… while the traumatized capitalist-infused workaholic in me raises his nose, I do respect this. As long as the life-style/spend matches the working less, god bless you for making a wise choice.

 

[Janders]

RE preCOVID and during COVID was solid and likely never to happen again. Loans for 2.5-3.5% interest would be amazing right now for me because at this stage I finally have spare $$ to invest in RE. But here I am piling it all in stocks instead. Man, it would be sweet to have a vacation property (STR) right now.

Yes while I am very content with my circumstance, it is the one thing timing didn't favor me on; I couldn’t afford a down payment in 2010-2011 so missed that boat, and then was too busy having two tiny kids, modest net worth and a new house in 2020 (also convinced I was gonna die, and our paychecks would stay depressed forever) to jump on a low interest vacation-style second home / rental. Remind me if rates ever drop under 5% again…

 

[Porfirio]

I find the docs that do financially responsible actions are retired and selection bias takes hold at age 60. Those dude hang up the jock strap. The dudes 60+ are leftovers.

 

[Porfirio]

Yes while I am very content with my circumstance, it is the one thing timing didn't favor me on; I couldn’t afford a down payment in 2010-2011 so missed that boat, and then was too busy having two tiny kids, modest net worth and a new house in 2020 (also convinced I was gonna die, and our paychecks would stay depressed forever) to jump on a low interest vacation-style second home / rental. Remind me if rates ever drop under 5% again…

I know man. I am just glad I got my modest home at 5% interest.

 

[Janders]

I find the docs that do financially responsible actions are retired and selection bias takes hold at age 60. Those dude hang up the jock strap. The dudes 60+ are leftovers.

OH 100%, I meant to say that… ESPECIALLY in the ED.

You’re working FT at age 67 in the ED?! Are you senior teaching faculty and “working” means co-signing resident charts 4x a month? No?

So your divorce + lost lawsuit number > 5…

 

[Janders]

Time and money is what this game is all about. Give me a 20 year old guy who throws it in an index than a 50 year old guy who can pick the best mutual fund for 20 yrs.

My goal is to have 8 figures in equities/funds in the next 1-2 yrs.

Yeah I never really thought 8 figures was a realistic goal when I plotted things out 15 years ago, but it’s actually quite within grasp in 3 years if SP500 kept up “typical” annual returns. I do smell at least a single year bear run coming, but that’s OK I can buy a little more at discount… plus I got a kid going to college then, what am I going to do fully retire and enjoy myself?!

 

[JacobMcCandles]

OH 100%, I meant to say that… ESPECIALLY in the ED.

You’re working FT at age 67 in the ED?! Are you senior teaching faculty and “working” means co-signing resident charts 4x a month? No?

So your divorce + lost lawsuit number > 5…

It’s incredibly rare for lawsuits to go over malpractice limits and then be upheld and then collected upon so the number of lawsuits is practically irrelevant. Those docs are usually just terrible with money and have nothing else to do with their lives.

 

[Janders]

Coming back to “AI”, one of my favorite things is have it calculate compounding math, or various scenarios that i could do, but it would take me a while.

I asked it to pretend the year was 2010, and at the end of each year you’d invest 150k. You’d invest in 75% US stock and 25% international (broad index). And you’d keep doing that; using real historic return data, where would you be now? [clearly simplified from weekly DCA, tax-advantaged, yaddayaada]

Punchline, you’d have

$7,192,271

If you added the 2026 contribution today.

Apparently I’m a punch behind; I blame my long-term 10% bond exposure!

Anyway, I do enjoy running scenarios like this, asking it to forward project typical case, bad case, various case (give me 3 years of bear market followed by recovery), etc.

 

[Janders]

It’s incredibly rare for lawsuits to go over malpractice limits and then be upheld and then collected upon so the number of lawsuits is practically irrelevant. Those docs are usually just terrible with money and have nothing else to do with their lives.

I didn’t say malpractice 😉

 

[Janders]

I didn’t say malpractice 😉

By which I mean the cohort that sued their last two contractors, opened a side business that is embroiled in a federal suit, and something about cocaine…

 

[skougess]

The Majority, about 80%, of my 1st 10M was RE. I could have FIRE on RE alone. I did get lucky with timing with buying before Covid/during Covid and low interest rates. The FSER is just icing on the cake and legacy.

All of these bought pre-covid from 2017-2021
My 1st big purchase was 6 pack of duplexes for $1M, requiring 300K down. Eventually sold all 6 over 5 years, for around 2.5M or 4x ROI.
Bought a Vaca property for 500K at 2.5% interest, 250K rehab/150K down, has about 90K loan. Place is now worth prob 2.5-3M. Keeping this for my kids to use because it is a beautiful place on one of the most popular lakes in Tx. ROI if sold today prob 7x at 9 yr mark.
Bought a Vaca property for 375K at 3% interest, 50K rehab, 100K down. Refinanced it to pull out my 150K and have about 300K in loan. Just put the property on the market for 800K.
Bought a college rental for 380K, low interest, 100K down, minimal rehab. Property prob worth north of 800K. Cash flowing so keeping it for now, Prob worth $1M+ in the next 5 yrs when. If my kids do not go to college at this school, will sell it. ROI if sold today prob 4x over 5 yrs.

More stories even with Post covid purchases that have done overall well but not as good as PreCovid where RE investors were printing money.

I didn’t realize that! Real estate is a tried and true way to get rich. Also a tried and true way to go horizontal in wealth while also tearing your hair out drowning in work. I’ve never been interested, but it’s worked out for you like it worked out for many.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Watching the new documentary on Netflix on AI. Holy crap the first 30 minutes has scared the crap out of me …..

These are some very very very smart people who are scared of the future.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

OH 100%, I meant to say that… ESPECIALLY in the ED.

You’re working FT at age 67 in the ED?! Are you senior teaching faculty and “working” means co-signing resident charts 4x a month? No?

So your divorce + lost lawsuit number > 5…

We had a guy retire (just from EM) at that age right before covid. He worked a lot in the ED and some clinic stuff on the side. Still with his one and only wife. I think they only had one kid. Still lived in the house they purchased decades prior. Still liked to travel together. I think he maybe just really loved the work.

 

[Porfirio]

I wish we would spend all these billions on Neuralink type technology instead of AI. We are only creating something that will out compete us. We will be AI’s zoo animal.

 

[emergentmd]

RE preCOVID and during COVID was solid and likely never to happen again. Loans for 2.5-3.5% interest would be amazing right now for me because at this stage I finally have spare $$ to invest in RE. But here I am piling it all in stocks instead. Man, it would be sweet to have a vacation property (STR) right now.

Financially, there is some luck involved but all doc should be set if they just keep DCA into the market. I have learned a lot from RE and lucked into a time when it was difficult to screw up. So much headwinds pre/during covid and I tell people you could throw a dart blindfolded and look like a genius. I did not know much about RE, but I did understand at a sub 3-4% rate, it was essentially free money.

A STR that is near your home that you can rent out to pay OP EX and use it as a family Vaca is the best of all worlds and makes such great memories. Getting it Pre/During Covid is literally all stars aligning. Rate under 3%, relatively depressed home prices, and then the government printing money as handouts creating a buying frenzy.

If you are starting in RE now, I would not touch anything with a 10 foot pole. A 7%+ rate is a headwind that will cripple most. Only the well capped, knowledgeable investor should play in this market. I am well capped and think I am knowledgeable, But I will not play in this market. A lot of "experts" are losing their shirt in RE flipping and Syndications. I do think there are some really great deals right now BUT the question is can you hold it until things turn around.

Bottom line - DO NOT jump into RE at this time if your only goal is to make $$$.

 

[emergentmd]

Docs are really no smarter or dumber financially than the general public. They just have a bigger shovel to get out a the same mess. Look at your non doc friends, they struggle to pay the bills too. Problem for them is a $50K debt, it ends up being years of getting out. $50K debt for an ER doc is like a 3-6 month struggle.

I have had my share of 50-100K investment total losses. This would cripple the avg American. For me, it is just part of doing business and risk taking.

I have great stories on a biofuel startup that tanked. Currently in a Crypto start up and came in knowing I will likely lose my 100K. But if it works out, May be worth a few million+.

 

[emergentmd]

Yeah I never really thought 8 figures was a realistic goal when I plotted things out 15 years ago, but it’s actually quite within grasp in 3 years if SP500 kept up “typical” annual returns. I do smell at least a single year bear run coming, but that’s OK I can buy a little more at discount… plus I got a kid going to college then, what am I going to do fully retire and enjoy myself?!

Good for you man. I tell people, it is like a snowball. At first, it seems so ridiculously slow and sometimes defeating. But once it hits momentum, about 3M, you literally do 1/50th of the work for the next $3M. The next $3M is like swimming downstream. The Next $3M is like going down a water slide, you essentially have to fight the water current to screw it up.

 

[thumbz]

Good for you man. I tell people, it is like a snowball. At first, it seems so ridiculously slow and sometimes defeating. But once it hits momentum, about 3M, you literally do 1/50th of the work for the next $3M. The next $3M is like swimming downstream. The Next $3M is like going down a water slide, you essentially have to fight the water current to screw it up.

This is so insanely true, and holds at smaller numbers as well.

Jan 1 my retirement accounts were at $550k. Today they're at $750k. It took me nearly 4 years to get to 200k.

I remind myself of this all the time to hold to course and not try to YOLO into stupid stuff chasing gains.

 

[emergentmd]

I remind myself of this all the time to hold to course and not try to YOLO into stupid stuff chasing gains.

Yeah, no reason to YOLO until you get to the point that it really does not matter. I did some penny stocks and looking back, it was a pump/dump scheme. Guess who the chump was?

 

[Groove]

Man, you guys stay up late. Am I the only old one in here that goes to bed at 7pm?

 

[AlmostAnMD]

9p

gym time 5a

In jammies and ready for work by 7a

 

[Janders]

Man, you guys stay up late. Am I the only old one in here that goes to bed at 7pm?

What is a circadian rhythm?