Name and shame: Pryor and partners

[madog1881718]

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I would personally not recommend doing business with Pryor and Partners locum agency.

The owner tried to force a lower rate on me after agreeing to terms earlier on. I believe this as well as his communication issues caused me to be dropped from the contract. He seemed very immature to me, constantly responding with laughing emojis and would not honor his own response timelines (e.g. “I’ll get back to you by tonight” was followed by 3 days of ghosting after multiple messages trying to reach him then him admitting he was hoping someone else would take the shifts at a lower rate first).

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Probably true for a lot of locums

Locums is the most impersonal and cog-like you can possibly become. Anyone that does that loses the right to complain in general, I think, about loss of autonomy, etc. You're a goddam widget that needs to do widget activities, and as the example you illustrated shows, do them at the lowest possible price point.

Sadly that tactic will assuredly work on someone else....otherwise it wouldn't exist!

 

[skougess]

Probably true for a lot of locums

Locums is the most impersonal and cog-like you can possibly become. Anyone that does that loses the right to complain in general, I think, about loss of autonomy, etc. You're a goddam widget that needs to do widget activities, and as the example you illustrated shows, do them at the lowest possible price point.

Sadly that tactic will assuredly work on someone else....otherwise it wouldn't exist!

Reason #100 why it’s insane anyone works locums for less than $500/hr.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Minus the poor communication it sounds like he was at least honest with you in regards to trying to get someone to cover the shift for less. That’s how they make their money.

 

[Apollyon]

At ACEP 10+ years ago, some locums guys were joking about these fly-by-night guys "sitting in their Mom's basement, eating Cheetos". When locums warns you about locums, that's telling, a bit.

 

[madog1881718]

Probably true for a lot of locums

Locums is the most impersonal and cog-like you can possibly become. Anyone that does that loses the right to complain in general, I think, about loss of autonomy, etc. You're a goddam widget that needs to do widget activities, and as the example you illustrated shows, do them at the lowest possible price point.

Sadly that tactic will assuredly work on someone else....otherwise it wouldn't exist!

Ok we get it, everyone that does locum is stupid and should strive to be a partner making 400+ an hour.

Reality is some of us either can’t move or aren’t excited about living in the boonies or 3rd rate cities and use locum as a way to make a better living because the jobs around us pay low 200 or worse. Some also just got burned playing the sweat equity game with small groups that end up finding any reason possible to deny partnership when the time comes.

People talk about how we should try to be transparent and name the bad actors but god forbid you do that and you immediately just get blamed.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Ok we get it, everyone that does locum is stupid and should strive to be a partner making 400+ an hour.

Reality is some of us either can’t move or aren’t excited about living in the boonies or 3rd rate cities and use locum as a way to make a better living because the jobs around us pay low 200 or worse. Some also just got burned playing the sweat equity game with small groups that end up finding any reason possible to deny partnership when the time comes.

People talk about how we should try to be transparent and name the bad actors but god forbid you do that and you immediately just get blamed.

Oh, I didn't mean to blame at all. I blame the system for enabling it. I was in the same boat, man. Region locked and all local ED jobs were ****. So I left EM and just WFH in utilization now. Best of luck to anyone still stuck (and WANTS out, some people love it/in a good system/locums/etc)

 

[skougess]

Ok we get it, everyone that does locum is stupid and should strive to be a partner making 400+ an hour.

Reality is some of us either can’t move or aren’t excited about living in the boonies or 3rd rate cities and use locum as a way to make a better living because the jobs around us pay low 200 or worse. Some also just got burned playing the sweat equity game with small groups that end up finding any reason possible to deny partnership when the time comes.

People talk about how we should try to be transparent and name the bad actors but god forbid you do that and you immediately just get blamed.

I have no problem with locums, I just question how bad your local rates could actually be to justify what many of these locums places are paying. I’m not exactly in a high-paying locale and I never see rates approach anything close to what would make credentialing, travel, new staff, etc worth it.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Ok we get it, everyone that does locum is stupid and should strive to be a partner making 400+ an hour.

Reality is some of us either can’t move or aren’t excited about living in the boonies or 3rd rate cities and use locum as a way to make a better living because the jobs around us pay low 200 or worse. Some also just got burned playing the sweat equity game with small groups that end up finding any reason possible to deny partnership when the time comes.

People talk about how we should try to be transparent and name the bad actors but god forbid you do that and you immediately just get blamed.

I don't think that's the take away. The take away is that locums is not a long term answer. Life happens, I think we all get that. But, locums can't be counted on in the long term. As Annie (or Jay-Z) says, it's a hard knock life.

 

[Porfirio]

Locum companies are a good thing for EM, they drive up rates. Let it continue.

 

[Bittersteel]

I like fycking with locums recruiters. I tell them I want 1,000/hour whenever they text me. I actually got a call from one as I was reading this thread...no joke.

My guy: I've been in your shoes. I did ALPHA TEAM internal locums for one of the big CMGs back in the day. It sucked. But the pay was higher than where I had to live at the time. So I get it, kinda. In hindsight, the moderate increase in pay wasn't worth living out of a suitcase in a damn Hampton Inn in a town where the best place to hang out was a freakin Chili's.

COVID hit, volumes plummeted, and they fired EVERYONE. Lesson: you're a nobody as a locums. This isn't the early 2000s We're in residency expansion era babyyy. Look at the EM subreddit. There's people who can't even pass shelf exams and Step 1 matching into EM. These buffoons will work at the most smelly of dumpster fires for 190/hr and smile while doing it.

Decision time:

a) continue as a miserable locums

b) switch to a miserable hospital employed job. Did this too. Sucked even more in some ways.

c) hope to get lucky and score one of those work from home gigs where you make 300k in your PJs

d) find a good SDG and make $$$$$ and have control over your job. They're out there. I'm in one. Breath of fresh air. Different challenges, but potential for the big bucks. My partners have my back and I have their's. Tell your spouse or whatever that this is a priority and you need this. Dont waste your career.

 

[madog1881718]

The statements about “anyone who does that looses the right to complain” or eating Cheetos in your parents’ basement were what got to me.

A lot of us complain about how there is a ton wrong with this field. If someone came along and made a blanket statement about how we don't really own the ER and knew that going in and therefore don’t have the right to complain I think a lot of you would be justifiably pissed. It’s good advice to give med students but doesn’t really help those of us who are years after residency.

There are off ramps, some more niche than others, and I’m genuinely jealous of a lot of the people who found good ones.

I’d love to find a group by me where I had more control, decent pay and great work environment but there are no open jobs that fit that here. I like where I live and my wife makes decent money (but not doctor money) and it’s hard for her to find an equal job in smaller cities. So yes, I accept that part of this is me paying for living where I live.

If pay around me is low 200s and I can make mid 300s with locum I think it’s worth it despite the wasted travel days and living out of suitcase for now. I have no idea who takes those locum jobs paying in the 200s. I think those places should choke until they raise their rates.

There is definitely less stability in locum. And for the most part that can be managed with juggling multiple contracts and being flexible but when a company seems to act in bad faith I think it’s useful for others to know and draw their own conclusions which I why I made this post. If we had a larger database of the bad players they might actually feel the hurt enough to either change or loose enough to get outcompeted. Same should go for predatory groups that dangle partnership and find trumped up reasons to deny it after years of sweat equity, groups that run like ponzy schemes etc.

We all know about how bad the big players are. But it helps to be able to tell apart the smaller ones too since they aren’t all innocent just because they are small.

 

[Apollyon]

The statements about “anyone who does that looses the right to complain” or eating Cheetos in your parents’ basement were what got to me.

A lot of us complain about how there is a ton wrong with this field. If someone came along and made a blanket statement about how we don't really own the ER and knew that going in and therefore don’t have the right to complain I think a lot of you would be justifiably pissed. It’s good advice to give med students but doesn’t really help those of us who are years after residency.

There are off ramps, some more niche than others, and I’m genuinely jealous of a lot of the people who found good ones.

I’d love to find a group by me where I had more control, decent pay and great work environment but there are no open jobs that fit that here. I like where I live and my wife makes decent money (but not doctor money) and it’s hard for her to find an equal job in smaller cities. So yes, I accept that part of this is me paying for living where I live.

If pay around me is low 200s and I can make mid 300s with locum I think it’s worth it despite the wasted travel days and living out of suitcase for now. I have no idea who takes those locum jobs paying in the 200s. I think those places should choke until they raise their rates.

There is definitely less stability in locum. And for the most part that can be managed with juggling multiple contracts and being flexible but when a company seems to act in bad faith I think it’s useful for others to know and draw their own conclusions which I why I made this post. If we had a larger database of the bad players they might actually feel the hurt enough to either change or loose enough to get outcompeted. Same should go for predatory groups that dangle partnership and find trumped up reasons to deny it after years of sweat equity, groups that run like ponzy schemes etc.

We all know about how bad the big players are. But it helps to be able to tell apart the smaller ones too since they aren’t all innocent just because they are small.

That was what the big locums company guys were talking about. Halfway measures and all that.

 

[madog1881718]

That was what the big locums company guys were talking about. Halfway measures and all that.

I misunderstood then, my bad

 

[madog1881718]

As a follow up, this guy just keeps getting better and better.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Maybe he's a double agent secretly trying to take them down with bad publicity

Or, just another toddler in a suit

 

[madog1881718]

He is the owner. I’m holding back a lot here but it’s becoming a little entertaining watching him act like a remedial middle schooler.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Be careful, this guy “thrives in high pressure situations”.

He also does strike me as a gentleman who uses a lot of emojis through text.

 

[Bittersteel]

I love messing with recruiters. Theyre such drones.

 

[EctopicFetus]

First, kudos for the name and shame. Far too many people are sissies even when anon. Its what keeps us running around in circles. What this dude doesnt get is that this makes him look even worse. IN the end bless you guys for working locums. I have said this before, my experience with docs who work locums is pretty poor. I have never done it. I have a good friend of mine who had a regular job for a while and then after well over a decade decided to do locums. Its finally worn him down.

I just dont get the allure, going to small town NM, Minnesota, Alaska, South Dakota or small southern or texas towns. Whats the appeal. This isnt like go work 4 shifts in paris and then you can enjoy the city. every locums person i know gets in at the last minute and then leaves as soon as they can. The travel is real time you arent paid for. The airport delays are also real and uncompensated.

I can work super low volume EDs and while the pay frankly sucks im at least getting paid for doing nothing unlike locums docs at the airport.

The whole thing is sort of ironic and funny. The recruiters all try to distinguish themselves as if their only job isnt to convince some hospital admin that they are special and then convince some EM doc to take their garbage job. So you have some doc in Minnestoa traveling to BFE New Mexico and some doc in New Mexico traveling to BFE alabama and some doc in Alabama traveling to Minnesota. Could it be any stupider? (Im referring to whole set up not the individual doc).

For those of you who are residents / early career. Find a non trash job so you can avoid locums. Its a horrific way to spend a career. Its honestly a horrific way to spend your life.

Locums is fine for a short burst if you can get the money. However, it appears the usual path is take a mid locums rate and then after a few months they will open you up to real good money and they give it to you here and there when it sucks for your life and they are desperate.

The time spent "managing" the locums is also not counted in the hourly rate. I can see the upside but seems like by far the downside is greater in my eyes.

 

[Bittersteel]

First, kudos for the name and shame. Far too many people are sissies even when anon. Its what keeps us running around in circles. What this dude doesnt get is that this makes him look even worse. IN the end bless you guys for working locums. I have said this before, my experience with docs who work locums is pretty poor. I have never done it. I have a good friend of mine who had a regular job for a while and then after well over a decade decided to do locums. Its finally worn him down.

I just dont get the allure, going to small town NM, Minnesota, Alaska, South Dakota or small southern or texas towns. Whats the appeal. This isnt like go work 4 shifts in paris and then you can enjoy the city. every locums person i know gets in at the last minute and then leaves as soon as they can. The travel is real time you arent paid for. The airport delays are also real and uncompensated.

I can work super low volume EDs and while the pay frankly sucks im at least getting paid for doing nothing unlike locums docs at the airport.

The whole thing is sort of ironic and funny. The recruiters all try to distinguish themselves as if their only job isnt to convince some hospital admin that they are special and then convince some EM doc to take their garbage job. So you have some doc in Minnestoa traveling to BFE New Mexico and some doc in New Mexico traveling to BFE alabama and some doc in Alabama traveling to Minnesota. Could it be any stupider? (Im referring to whole set up not the individual doc).

For those of you who are residents / early career. Find a non trash job so you can avoid locums. Its a horrific way to spend a career. Its honestly a horrific way to spend your life.

Locums is fine for a short burst if you can get the money. However, it appears the usual path is take a mid locums rate and then after a few months they will open you up to real good money and they give it to you here and there when it sucks for your life and they are desperate.

The time spent "managing" the locums is also not counted in the hourly rate. I can see the upside but seems like by far the downside is greater in my eyes.

The work of EM is so horrid that you need to make the logistics of doing it very easy. Thats why locums is a no go for me.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Ok we get it, everyone that does locum is stupid and should strive to be a partner making 400+ an hour.

Reality is some of us either can’t move or aren’t excited about living in the boonies or 3rd rate cities and use locum as a way to make a better living because the jobs around us pay low 200 or worse. Some also just got burned playing the sweat equity game with small groups that end up finding any reason possible to deny partnership when the time comes.

People talk about how we should try to be transparent and name the bad actors but god forbid you do that and you immediately just get blamed.

100% appreciate the naming and shaming.

I think it should be openly done a lot more.