Options and real estate wedlock - a beginner level trade on a real estate backed asset

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Financially, there is some luck involved but all doc should be set if they just keep DCA into the market. I have learned a lot from RE and lucked into a time when it was difficult to screw up. So much headwinds pre/during covid and I tell people you could throw a dart blindfolded and look like a genius. I did not know much about RE, but I did understand at a sub 3-4% rate, it was essentially free money.

A STR that is near your home that you can rent out to pay OP EX and use it as a family Vaca is the best of all worlds and makes such great memories. Getting it Pre/During Covid is literally all stars aligning. Rate under 3%, relatively depressed home prices, and then the government printing money as handouts creating a buying frenzy.

If you are starting in RE now, I would not touch anything with a 10 foot pole. A 7%+ rate is a headwind that will cripple most. Only the well capped, knowledgeable investor should play in this market. I am well capped and think I am knowledgeable, But I will not play in this market. A lot of "experts" are losing their shirt in RE flipping and Syndications. I do think there are some really great deals right now BUT the question is can you hold it until things turn around.

Bottom line - DO NOT jump into RE at this time if your only goal is to make $$$.
What are your thoughts on commercial RE, something like a storage facility? I heard commercial RE values have been taking a hit since Covid. Has that changed?
 
Docs are really no smarter or dumber financially than the general public. They just have a bigger shovel to get out a the same mess. Look at your non doc friends, they struggle to pay the bills too. Problem for them is a $50K debt, it ends up being years of getting out. $50K debt for an ER doc is like a 3-6 month struggle.

I have had my share of 50-100K investment total losses. This would cripple the avg American. For me, it is just part of doing business and risk taking.

I have great stories on a biofuel startup that tanked. Currently in a Crypto start up and came in knowing I will likely lose my 100K. But if it works out, May be worth a few million+.
Recently read an article that 40% of people who make >300k/yr are living paycheck-to-paycheck. Unfortunately, bigger income just equals bigger debt for a lot of people.
 
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I didn't used to but my wife goes to bed super early and she'll scratch my back if I go to bed at the same time and watch tv with her. So...we watch tv for an hour or so and I get some scratches. I'm then out..probably by 8 or 8:30. I usually wake up around 3-4am and get up, feed the dogs, coffee, etc.. She'll sleep until 6:30. Hell, on her days off she'd probably sleep until 8am if I let her. I've never seen someone sleep so much in my life.
 
Recently read an article that 40% of people who make >300k/yr are living paycheck-to-paycheck. Unfortunately, bigger income just equals bigger debt for a lot of people.
The more you make, the more you spend because you can. Bigger paycheck = Mercedes to keep up with the other docs. Bigger Vaca because Jimmy across the street just went to Iceland. More club sports b/c the affluent school your kids go to all are in club sports with private lessons.

So more money doesn't always equal not living check/check. But what is allows is for docs to get out of debt and save more when they wise up b/c of the big shovel.
 
I didn't used to but my wife goes to bed super early and she'll scratch my back if I go to bed at the same time and watch tv with her. So...we watch tv for an hour or so and I get some scratches. I'm then out..probably by 8 or 8:30. I usually wake up around 3-4am and get up, feed the dogs, coffee, etc.. She'll sleep until 6:30. Hell, on her days off she'd probably sleep until 8am if I let her. I've never seen someone sleep so much in my life.
The thought sleeping by 8p and waking up at 3am gives me the shivers. I am more of a 11p-12am then wake up at 7. Take naps when I am tired. I can't miss out on all the football games sleeping at 8p
 
What are your thoughts on commercial RE, something like a storage facility? I heard commercial RE values have been taking a hit since Covid. Has that changed?
I would stay away from anything RE. Home rents are going down and I am sure storage rents too. When people have less discretionary, they will not renew things like storage units. If you can buy out a distressed seller, may be worth it. I would never build from scratch in this economy/rate.
 
Natively, I am a night owl and would like to be up until 0100 at least, and then sleep til almost 0800.

However I also love getting up at 0500, having coffee, and getting **** DONE until 0700 (run, bike, lift, etc). I don't like the act of waking up, but it feels good to be ahead of the day.

Honestly 0500 wake up w/ workup followed by afternoon siesta and up late may be my perfect state 🙂
 
Yes, but risk surrounds every moment that looks like a sure thing in retrospect. Sure, it was a great run IF you lump summed in at the 2009 bottom and were isolated from all the risk that surrounded that moment. But gains are rarely linear or easily predictable.

What I had to ride out to benefit from the '09 bottom:
  1. Lost most of my first investment in the 2000 dot-com crash. It took 10 years for the market to get back to even in 2009.
  2. Started DCAing into my 401K in 2004, then the S&P fell 58% in 2008. As a young attending with loans and a growing family, I had little free cash to lump-sum at the bottom, like most people.
  3. My house lost 50% in the '08 housing crash and took 15 years to recover. I was in my mid-30s with a negative six-figure net worth.
  4. Missed two years of gains related to my Pain fellowship, including an 85% pay cut for a year. Worth it, but sometimes a monetary investment takes a back seat to a quality of life investment.
  5. The 2016-2026 run required diamond hands through the 2020 COVID crash and the 2022 bear market. I didn't sell a thing, but some people panic sold and missed the recovery.
I've done very well, despite the bumps. Some might say I've won the game, or am very close. But it wasn't easy, certain or risk free.
Man, that must have been rough to psychologically go through, considering that, during those years, the wisdom from WCI and just investing and holding on to low-cost index funds was not as widespread as it is today. Don't get me wrong. That information was out there, but you had to more or less actively go out and look for it, unlike today, where it's popping up everywhere anytime you search about how you should invest, etc.
 
the real thing that allowed me to cut down was a reasonable lifestyle in the mid west. Honestly, if i had a 2 million dollar home in California, the stress of that mortgage would keep me working full time. A 620k mortgage and living in the mid west was the real key.
Yeah, there's no disagreement for me there. If I had stuck with my first job out of residency, I would have moved out of California, and I think living in Southern California is not a wise decision for probably at least 90% of doctors who actually choose to live here. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with moving to Southern California, seeing how things work out the first couple years as a physician, and deciding whether it is financially sound to stay here or not based off income, income trajectory, partnership potential, investing trajectory etc. Definitely not just based on feels.
 
Yeah, there's no disagreement for me there. If I had stuck with my first job out of residency, I would have moved out of California, and I think living in Southern California is not a wise decision for probably at least 90% of doctors who actually choose to live here. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with moving to Southern California, seeing how things work out the first couple years as a physician, and deciding whether it is financially sound to stay here or not based off income, income trajectory, partnership potential, investing trajectory etc. Definitely not just based on feels.

I gotta feel like there's at least one ED doc living in a homeless camp in socal just to get to FIRE faster
 
Yeah, no reason to YOLO until you get to the point that it really does not matter. I did some penny stocks and looking back, it was a pump/dump scheme. Guess who the chump was?

I also was exit liquidity back in the day - the problem was I started small, jumped out before the dump, and thought I was a god of investing. So of course YOLO'd hard on one and missed the exit and got crushed.

If I have to wake up before 5am I feel physcially ill, regardless of how much sleep I got. My body is real weird about that (As a teenager I used to get up at 430 to drive 4 hours to Banff and ski, and even then it just hit me like a brick wall)
 
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Natively, I am a night owl and would like to be up until 0100 at least, and then sleep til almost 0800.

However I also love getting up at 0500, having coffee, and getting **** DONE until 0700 (run, bike, lift, etc). I don't like the act of waking up, but it feels good to be ahead of the day.

Honestly 0500 wake up w/ workup followed by afternoon siesta and up late may be my perfect state 🙂
I sleep at 10, and I'm up by 3:50 am. Gym by 5 to 6 am. I go to a luxury gym around here, and I've made quite a couple of friends with the members of the gym. It's a pretty close-knit community ( we also hang out outside of the gym as couples and families) and we are all of a pretty similar mindset and high income professionals, which is why I choose to not work out at home (too much isolation). If I wake up later, then I will have to end up going to the gym at around 8 to 9 am, and people who go to the gym around that time are just sketchier lol.

Then I'm off to work and usually back home by 12:30 pm.
 
Man, that must have been rough to psychologically go through, considering that, during those years, the wisdom from WCI and just investing and holding on to low-cost index funds was not as widespread as it is today. Don't get me wrong. That information was out there, but you had to more or less actively go out and look for it, unlike today, where it's popping up everywhere anytime you search about how you should invest, etc.
Correct, the information is more widespread today. But John Bogle brought passive index fund DCA investing to the public in the 1970s. By the 1980s and early 1990s, the information was pretty much out there if you sought it. It was pre-internet still, so you had to either read books or watch financial TV shows.
 
I sleep at 10, and I'm up by 3:50 am. Gym by 5 to 6 am. I go to a luxury gym around here, and I've made quite a couple of friends with the members of the gym. It's a pretty close-knit community ( we also hang out outside of the gym as couples and families) and we are all of a pretty similar mindset and high income professionals, which is why I choose to not work out at home (too much isolation). If I wake up later, then I will have to end up going to the gym at around 8 to 9 am, and people who go to the gym around that time are just sketchier lol.

Then I'm off to work and usually back home by 12:30 pm.

Yeah I was a "founding member" at a local luxury gym maybe 11-12 years ago when it opened; the real appeal was the insane childcare that was included-- it wasn't just a room of toddlers running around, it was 5 separate rooms with activities every 20 minutes, sports and games and art. When the kids were little (say pre-1st grade) they basically begged to go there. It also had a massive nice outdoor pool for summer time. Our shtick for a long time was to get the eldest off to kindergarten, then the wife and I would bring the youngest to the gym, and workout for for a solid 2hr from 830-1030, then off to work / etc. Probably did this 4 days a week. They had these nice showers I still think about...

But it all fell apart in COVID; closed for a while, and then didn't want to bring the kids for a while, prices went way up, sorta tried to get back into after a year or two but the kids were getting older and didn't like the "amenities" but too young to gym. Did it for a summer as the pool was great, but eventually scaled back to just me having a membership.

They had another location closer to where I work (less luxurious by a notch) and it was open 'til 0100-0200, so I loved going AFTER a shift that ended at 10p or 11p as the weight room would be nearly empty and I could do anything I wanted. But they scaled back hours to MN. Then til 10pm multiple days. And upped prices... le sigh.

So I'm back to pimping my home lifting gym; I'm fine with doing cardio on my own / at home, but I do get better lifts in in a gym environment I think...
 
Yeah I was a "founding member" at a local luxury gym maybe 11-12 years ago when it opened; the real appeal was the insane childcare that was included-- it wasn't just a room of toddlers running around, it was 5 separate rooms with activities every 20 minutes, sports and games and art. When the kids were little (say pre-1st grade) they basically begged to go there. It also had a massive nice outdoor pool for summer time. Our shtick for a long time was to get the eldest off to kindergarten, then the wife and I would bring the youngest to the gym, and workout for for a solid 2hr from 830-1030, then off to work / etc. Probably did this 4 days a week. They had these nice showers I still think about...

But it all fell apart in COVID; closed for a while, and then didn't want to bring the kids for a while, prices went way up, sorta tried to get back into after a year or two but the kids were getting older and didn't like the "amenities" but too young to gym. Did it for a summer as the pool was great, but eventually scaled back to just me having a membership.

They had another location closer to where I work (less luxurious by a notch) and it was open 'til 0100-0200, so I loved going AFTER a shift that ended at 10p or 11p as the weight room would be nearly empty and I could do anything I wanted. But they scaled back hours to MN. Then til 10pm multiple days. And upped prices... le sigh.

So I'm back to pimping my home lifting gym; I'm fine with doing cardio on my own / at home, but I do get better lifts in in a gym environment I think...
You should build your home gym like this guy

 
So I'm back to pimping my home lifting gym; I'm fine with doing cardio on my own / at home, but I do get better lifts in in a gym environment I think...

I'm in the same boat - I lift like garbage when I'm on my own - apparently I need people around me to feel motivated to actually lift heavy and rep to failure. Cardio is fine at home, but I totally abandoned the idea of a home gym 5ish years ago.
 
I was down in the valley (south tx) for locums work, so I decided to drop by a local Gold’s gym and get a day pass.

I’ve always wanted to workout at a Gold’s, from the pictures at least I loved the old school bodybuilder vibes it gave off.

$31 day pass was pricey, and the equipment was pretty state of the art. But alas, mostly regular folks and no giant pics of Arnold flexing on the walls. Mildly disappointing.
 
Yeah I was a "founding member" at a local luxury gym maybe 11-12 years ago when it opened; the real appeal was the insane childcare that was included-- it wasn't just a room of toddlers running around, it was 5 separate rooms with activities every 20 minutes, sports and games and art. When the kids were little (say pre-1st grade) they basically begged to go there. It also had a massive nice outdoor pool for summer time. Our shtick for a long time was to get the eldest off to kindergarten, then the wife and I would bring the youngest to the gym, and workout for for a solid 2hr from 830-1030, then off to work / etc. Probably did this 4 days a week. They had these nice showers I still think about...

But it all fell apart in COVID; closed for a while, and then didn't want to bring the kids for a while, prices went way up, sorta tried to get back into after a year or two but the kids were getting older and didn't like the "amenities" but too young to gym. Did it for a summer as the pool was great, but eventually scaled back to just me having a membership.

They had another location closer to where I work (less luxurious by a notch) and it was open 'til 0100-0200, so I loved going AFTER a shift that ended at 10p or 11p as the weight room would be nearly empty and I could do anything I wanted. But they scaled back hours to MN. Then til 10pm multiple days. And upped prices... le sigh.

So I'm back to pimping my home lifting gym; I'm fine with doing cardio on my own / at home, but I do get better lifts in in a gym environment I think...
Yeah, your line of work is a little bit more unpredictable schedule-wise, so I think it's less valuable for you to pay for a membership at one of these gyms for the community, if you know what I mean. For these small communities to form, you kind of need to be a regular at the same time on a pretty frequent basis.

I also get what you mean about getting better lifts in a gym environment. It's a little bit more motivating when the guys and gals around you are training hard as well. There's another component to it these days, especially at this gym bc of where it's located and the members it attracts, because people are so focused on aesthetics and being lean now. In addition to motivating each other to train harder, we also talk a lot about our diets because, as you know, abs are made in the kitchen.
 
I was down in the valley (south tx) for locums work, so I decided to drop by a local Gold’s gym and get a day pass.

I’ve always wanted to workout at a Gold’s, from the pictures at least I loved the old school bodybuilder vibes it gave off.

$31 day pass was pricey, and the equipment was pretty state of the art. But alas, mostly regular folks and no giant pics of Arnold flexing on the walls. Mildly disappointing.
Even the Gold's Gym in Venice, which is considered the mecca of bodybuilding, has taken a nosedive. I used to go to that gym a couple years ago, and it had already taken a nosedive. I think Gold's gyms are universally garbage these days. I'm actually not even sure what's worse, 24-hour fitness or Gold's Gym. If you're ever in Southern California, check out a Lifetime.
 
I'm in the same boat - I lift like garbage when I'm on my own - apparently I need people around me to feel motivated to actually lift heavy and rep to failure. Cardio is fine at home, but I totally abandoned the idea of a home gym 5ish years ago.
Also, I say this as someone who trained for years with just the basics: basic barbells and dumbbells. Some gyms these days are really, really well equipped with great machines that allow you to get an effective workout for your target body part much more effectively, efficiently, and safely. It would be impossible to put together a home gym to the same caliber as these gyms because there would just be insufficient space.
 
Even the Gold's Gym in Venice, which is considered the mecca of bodybuilding, has taken a nosedive. I used to go to that gym a couple years ago, and it had already taken a nosedive. I think Gold's gyms are universally garbage these days. I'm actually not even sure what's worse, 24-hour fitness or Gold's Gym. If you're ever in Southern California, check out a Lifetime.
Lifetime is where I work out now. I like it.
 
Lifetime is where I work out now. I like it.
You're definitely not missing out then. A lot of these "old-school" gyms don't even maintain their equipment well. The cables are rusty as hell, and things don't move smoothly, so the eccentric part of an exercise becomes easier than the concentric, which is completely counterproductive for hypertrophy purposes. I also think there's this unhealthy attachment to the way old-school bodybuilders used to work out, when there are just much more efficient ways to get the job done these days with good machines. Dudes will kill themselves performing conventional deadlifts, injuring their lower backs in the process. Yet when the goal is a well-developed back, vertical and horizontal pulling, especially with good machines, is where it's at.
 
A good fitness trainer can be clutch for "most" reasonable home workouts. My home gym has a peloton, peloton row, an Inspire FT2 Pro, a combination hack squat/leg press, a rack of Nuobell adjustable dumbbells. Few different barbells and plates. That's really about it. Some stretching and abs stuff, etc.. Couple of benches.

I can do almost everything with nothing more than the FT2.

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Really small footprint and a few hundred pounds less than comparable fitness trainers. The ability to link the stacks together on top of their patented weight doubling system has been extremely nice and helped me keep the weight down considering it's on a second floor.

I don't really think anyone gets their money back in typical home gym buildouts so it's very much a luxury tax for the convenience but hey...it's an "investment in your health", right?
 
Yeah I’ve actually looked for a trashy 24hr place (cheap) to use at 0500 or 2300 a few times a month around shifts, commuting. Some variety of machines, cheap.

There just aren’t any on my commute route, shockingly.
 
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Even the Gold's Gym in Venice, which is considered the mecca of bodybuilding, has taken a nosedive. I used to go to that gym a couple years ago, and it had already taken a nosedive. I think Gold's gyms are universally garbage these days. I'm actually not even sure what's worse, 24-hour fitness or Gold's Gym. If you're ever in Southern California, check out a Lifetime.
I love the gritty feel of my gold’s gym. Minimal frills, dudes/dudettes who are there to get yoked instead of do a half-workout and then take some instagram pics. And it’s about $15/month.
 
A good fitness trainer can be clutch for "most" reasonable home workouts. My home gym has a peloton, peloton row, an Inspire FT2 Pro, a combination hack squat/leg press, a rack of Nuobell adjustable dumbbells. Few different barbells and plates. That's really about it. Some stretching and abs stuff, etc.. Couple of benches.

I can do almost everything with nothing more than the FT2.

View attachment 425458

Really small footprint and a few hundred pounds less than comparable fitness trainers. The ability to link the stacks together on top of their patented weight doubling system has been extremely nice and helped me keep the weight down considering it's on a second floor.

I don't really think anyone gets their money back in typical home gym buildouts so it's very much a luxury tax for the convenience but hey...it's an "investment in your health", right?
Like it.

I’ve got a peloton bike and treadmill. Sadly my basement is unfinished low roof which limits things but I have a rogue expanded squat rack with big safety bars and a good adjustable bench, bar and weights, hex bar for deadlifts, adjustable dumbbells up to 100lb and I recently got a cheap cable tower from bells of steel and I love it for variety.

Looking over some leg equipment as I just tire of lunges and variants of deadlifts and don’t love squats… I know I’ll get better leg days with toys (plus I like biking and running enough I don’t go super heavy on legs anymore)
 
I was down in the valley (south tx) for locums work, so I decided to drop by a local Gold’s gym and get a day pass.

I’ve always wanted to workout at a Gold’s, from the pictures at least I loved the old school bodybuilder vibes it gave off.

$31 day pass was pricey, and the equipment was pretty state of the art. But alas, mostly regular folks and no giant pics of Arnold flexing on the walls. Mildly disappointing.
Deal breaker
 
You are guilty these days until proven innocent these days.

One of our nephrologists always take a nurse to go to the room with him.

I will withhold any judgements. Some of us have been in this forum long enough to have made some premature judgements on a more egregious but similar stories. And we know how that one ended. It's peripherally related to how Xaelia got one of his side jobs.
 
I will withhold any judgements. Some of us have been in this forum long enough to have made some premature judgements on a more egregious but similar stories. And we know how that one ended. It's peripherally related to how Xaelia got one of his side jobs.
I am not making any judgment either. I understand why a few docs have chaperones whenever they are seeing patients.
 
You are guilty these days until proven innocent these days.

One of our nephrologists always take a nurse to go to the room with him.


I don't buy it. 70 year old doc groping a 60 year old woman for kicks WITH her son in the room watching? Yeah, right.

The lesson is just to always have a chaperone in the room.

Thank God I don't do pelvic exams anymore.

This "sounds" like a super easy case to defend. It's just too bad that it's going to cause an insane amount of stress on his family. At least he's 70 and probably was near retirement or beyond it versus 30 with young kids and no savings having to navigate his future career.
 
You are guilty these days until proven innocent these days.

One of our nephrologists always take a nurse to go to the room with him.

And you guys wonder why the younger generation wants as little patient care as possible after graduation. One accusation and you’re toast. We play Russian roulette with every patient we see.
 
And you guys wonder why the younger generation wants as little patient care as possible after graduation. One accusation and you’re toast. We play Russian roulette with every patient we see.
True. It's very troubling that one's life can turn upside down on a baseless accusation.
 
I don't buy it. 70 year old doc groping a 60 year old woman for kicks WITH her son in the room watching? Yeah, right.

The lesson is just to always have a chaperone in the room.

Thank God I don't do pelvic exams anymore.

This "sounds" like a super easy case to defend. It's just too bad that it's going to cause an insane amount of stress on his family. At least he's 70 and probably was near retirement or beyond it versus 30 with young kids and no savings having to navigate his future career.
Did you read the article? Not saying he did it or didn’t but the son wasn’t in the room and there’s video inside the room although it says he moved the light supposedly in a way to obscure the camera. This should be a bit more than a ‘he said, she said’ since there’s video. It said the video showed his ungloved hands near her genitals twice.
 
Did you read the article? Not saying he did it or didn’t but the son wasn’t in the room and there’s video inside the room although it says he moved the light supposedly in a way to obscure the camera. This should be a bit more than a ‘he said, she said’ since there’s video. It said the video showed his ungloved hands near her genitals twice.
So he waits for an EMS patient all day who just pissed themselves during a seizure and was given "just enough" versed en route. Then he expertly "positions" the light so that he feels cleverly hidden from that no doubt 120 degree or 180 fisheye wide angle lens security camera? What did he do...carefully hang out in the security office for hours on end to get an approximation of the wide angle lens limitations? That's of course when he wasn't doing his job duties as EM Chief for the Emergency Dept at a busy level 1 trauma center? That's also AFTER he popped 800mg of ibuprofen and groaned at the thought of having to get up from his EM desk with his creaking 70 year old joints.

But hey, if he's a bit fuzzy on the particulars that day, I'm sure the pt just slugged with 5mg versed (in and out of consciousness) can remember those 2 full minutes with way more detail.

I'm just sayin...
 
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Plus, it makes so much more legal sense for the hospital to say they have potential incriminating evidence and just sever ties with him. He was an independent contractor I believe so that makes total sense. Way too much risk for the hospital to keep him and investigate internally. I haven't analyzed it but I bet that makes for a higher risk potential negligence case for the hospital.
 
So he waits for an EMS patient all day who just pissed themselves during a seizure and was given "just enough" versed en route. Then he expertly "positions" the light so that he feels cleverly hidden from that no doubt 120 degree or 180 fisheye wide angle lens security camera? What did he do...carefully hang out in the security office for hours on end to get an approximation of the wide angle lens limitations? That's of course when he wasn't doing his job duties as EM Chief for the Emergency Dept at a busy level 1 trauma center? That's also AFTER he popped 800mg of ibuprofen and groaned at the thought of having to get up from his EM desk with his creaking 70 year old joints.

But hey, if he's a bit fuzzy on the particulars that day, I'm sure the pt just slugged with 5mg versed (in and out of consciousness) can remember those 2 full minutes with way more detail.

I'm just sayin...
I’m saying that a lot of people get made out to be fools with automatically jumping to conclusions. There’s video so I’ll reserve my judgement until they complete the investigation. I’m sure nobody thought Newman would do what he did. You didn’t even have the facts presented by the article correct despite it being figuratively right in front of you. But hey, this is the era of jumping to conclusions without the full story so carry on.
 
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