Nodal planes?????????

[Mstoothlady2012]

Can someone explain me what this means? I have never seen this before😱

Thanks!

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[TeamGuo]

I think you are talking about the nodes that exists in the orbital. If that's the case, in the nodal planes you will not find any electrons.

Node = probability of finding an electron is zero.

Ex. p-orbital has 1 node since it looks like a dumbell, in the middle where it intersect, that's the node.

 

[osimsDDS]

nice thats pretty good to know...what about the s subshell, since its spherical, the middle is still the nodal plane and you wont find electrons there either??

 

[TeamGuo]

nice thats pretty good to know...what about the s subshell, since its spherical, the middle is still the nodal plane and you wont find electrons there either??

nah, since s orbital is a sphere and there's no gaps like p or d orbitals, so chance of finding an electron within the s orbital is pretty evenly distributed.

There's no node in the s orbital.

For the DAT purposes, I think knowing s = no nodal plane, p = 1 nodal plane, d = 2 nodal planes are good enough.

 

[osimsDDS]

thanks

 

[Mstoothlady2012]

nah, since s orbital is a sphere and there's no gaps like p or d orbitals, so chance of finding an electron within the s orbital is pretty evenly distributed.

There's no node in the s orbital.

For the DAT purposes, I think knowing s = no nodal plane, p = 1 nodal plane, d = 2 nodal planes are good enough.

so it corresponds to the subshell (l), where l=0=s, l=1=p ??? I am having hard time picturing what you are saying.

 

[TeamGuo]

so it corresponds to the subshell (l), where l=0=s, l=1=p ??? I am having hard time picturing what you are saying.

yes it does.

In general, angular momentum Quantum number = # of nodal planes.

 

[osimsDDS]

yes it does.

In general, angular momentum Quantum number = # of nodal planes.

like l=1=p, so ml=-1,0,1 so you will have 3 nodal planes because you have the Px, Py, and Pz???

 

[TeamGuo]

like l=1=p, so ml=-1,0,1 so you will have 3 nodal planes because you have the Px, Py, and Pz???

you have 1 node for each px, py, pz but there are 3 planes where you can have the node. In the x, y, z plane. Imagine the p orbitals being in those 3 different planes, you can only have 1 node per orbital.

 

[osimsDDS]

you have 1 node for each px, py, pz but there are 3 planes where you can have the node. In the x, y, z plane. Imagine the p orbitals being in those 3 different planes, you can only have 1 node per orbital.

o i see what you are saying, so if you are looking lets say at a coordinate plane with x,y, z those planes of the p orbital will overlap basically at the origin (0,0,0) correct?? and at that origin you have the nodal plane where the chances of having an electron are zero...

 

[Mstoothlady2012]

yes it does.

In general, angular momentum Quantum number = # of nodal planes.

so since 2s has l = 0...it has 0 nodal plane?

 

[Mstoothlady2012]

Osims, Here are couple of the questions that I found and their explanation. Don't really make much sense to me, but might help you!

• Which one of the following orbitals has one and only one nodal (spherical) shell or surface?
  1s, 2s, 3s, or 4s. If your answer is...I'm lost!
  Consider...
  An ns orbital has (n-1) nodal shell(s). When n = 2, there is 1 nodal shell.
  If your answer is...2s
  Excellent...
  How does a electron get through a nodal shell?
• Which one of the following orbitals has one and only one nodal plane?
  1s, 2s, 2pz, 3s, 3dxy. If your answer is...I'm lost!
  Consider...
  The 2s orbital has a nodal shell, whereas the 2pz.qn orbital or 2p orbitals have a nodal plane.
  If your answer is...pz or 2pz
  Excellent...
  A nodal plane is a plane in which the probability of finding a electron is zero. The 2s orbital has a nodal shell, whereas the 2pz orbital or 2p orbitals have a nodal plane.

 

[TeamGuo]

so since 2s has l = 0...it has 0 nodal plane?

Correcto.

 

[Mstoothlady2012]

Thank you!!

by the way I found this topic from kaplan practice test # 3...chemistry for that test is tricky!!! 😡

 

[TeamGuo]

o i see what you are saying, so if you are looking lets say at a coordinate plane with x,y, z those planes of the p orbital will overlap basically at the origin (0,0,0) correct?? and at that origin you have the nodal plane where the chances of having an electron are zero...

I wish I have a scanner. kk There's no overlap at the node since node means you don't overlap, sort of.

I think you understand that I have said but just saying it wrong.

http://www.chemistry.wustl.edu/~edudev/Orbitals/movie.html

Note how where there's a gap, that's the nodal plane~~

 

[osimsDDS]

so basically the s orbital has a nodal shell because the probability of finding an electron is in that shell because its a sphere, while in a p orbital its called a nodal plane because the probaility of finding the electron is in those lobes rather than in the middle or origin...

correct me if i am wrong, thanks

 

[osimsDDS]

I wish I have a scanner. kk There's no overlap at the node since node means you don't overlap, sort of.

I think you understand that I have said but just saying it wrong.

http://www.chemistry.wustl.edu/~edudev/Orbitals/movie.html

Note how where there's a gap, that's the nodal plane~~

yea i see what your saying now, thanks