New Vet School Coming To Tennessee!!!!!

Started by RackingHorse
Veterinary Science Graduate Programs from U. of I.
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Two in Tennessee?! Wow, lucky future Tennessee-ans 😉
The six-year program sounds intense, though- I wonder if it'll be a competitive thing (i.e. accepts x number of students) or something unique to that vet school.
 
I don't know but it is exciting either way. I hope they have it open by the time I finish undergrad. I don't know how long it is going to take for it to actually come to fruition.
 
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:barf:

It might be exciting for those of you who are pre-vets, and all you can think about is getting in. But once you're in (and by that, I mean in a lot of debt), and you meet some very qualified new grads who have a hard time finding jobs and are just puttering around in shelters for volunteer work because free work while gaining experience is better than no work at all... it's really frightening.
 
Minnerbelle said:
:barf:

It might be exciting for those of you who are pre-vets, and all you can think about is getting in. But once you're in (and by that, I mean in a lot of debt), and you meet some very qualified new grads who have a hard time finding jobs and are just puttering around in shelters for volunteer work because free work while gaining experience is better than no work at all... it's really frightening.
Click to expand...

👍 x 9000

ETA -- Here's a very recent article discussing the issue: http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dv...ess-wor/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/729120
 
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Yeah... my excitement for such things has certainly dwindled since reading around on VIN. We don't need more vets right now, honestly.

Which isn't to say that I'm giving up my spot, because someone else would just take it... haha. But the market is a bit saturated.
 
Minnerbelle said:
:barf:

It might be exciting for those of you who are pre-vets, and all you can think about is getting in. But once you're in (and by that, I mean in a lot of debt), and you meet some very qualified new grads who have a hard time finding jobs and are just puttering around in shelters for volunteer work because free work while gaining experience is better than no work at all... it's really frightening.
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Not really relevant.

But it's exciting to watch this topic attempt to derail every thread on the board.

If you're not excited, or at least interested in, a new program that specializes in rural LA, I'd suggest that your anxiety about debt is doing you some harm.

cheer-up-emo-kid_design.png
 
Dsmoody23 said:
Not really relevant... If you're not excited, or at least interested in, a new program that specializes in rural LA, I'd suggest that your anxiety about debt is doing you some harm.
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Veterinary school debt is very real, as is the fact that there are new/recent grads out there who are not finding work. So it's entirely relevant. Why should we be excited about or interested in a program being developed due to a "LA vet shortage" that even the AABP does not think exists?
 
LMU is the perfect place for vet students, you couldnt have a life outside of classes even if you wanted to! theres pretty much nothing within 100mi of the place (100 might be an exaggeration, but there is nothing nearby. very cute little school though and their on campus housing was phenominal (did a RAM clinic there last year-nice little place, but made blacksburg feel like NYC!). i also can;'t imagine them being able to support a teaching hospital, the area is extremely poor and very few animals receive general vet care let alone more complex stuff.

will also add that after reading on VIN and doing research about debt and the job market, i too am very concerned. as TT said, won't make me not go, but will keep me hyper aware of the situation while i'm going through school!
 
Dsmoody23 said:
Not really relevant.
Click to expand...
It's relevant as long as you understand supply and demand...


Dsmoody23 said:
If you're not excited, or at least interested in, a new program that specializes in rural LA, I'd suggest that your anxiety about debt is doing you some harm.
Click to expand...

If students who entered vet school with an interest in LA were locked into practicing LA medicine, then yeah, I'd say whatevs. I mean, it would suck for those peeps but at least it wouldn't affect me as you say. But that's not how it works. A lot of people who even finish vet school wanting to practice LA med end up taking SA jobs for a variety of reasons (not being able to find a decent job is one that's not unheard of). The LA and SA job markets aren't like completely isolated from each other ya know.


Dsmoody23 said:
cheer-up-emo-kid_design.png
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If I learned anything from that gawd awful kumbaya fest that was orientation in the mountains, it's that I'm a hardcore emo kid. So yeah, won't be cheering up anytime soon. Just my nature :cry:
 
I'm pretty dang far from emo... I mean, my hair is (currently) white, I'm tan, and I have a rather cheerful disposition, with a peppering of sarcasm and an odd sense of humor. Irritable, perhaps, but optimistic and relatively friendly.

So, I feel my concerns for the future of the profession are justified. I'm not a worrier, but this worries me anyway. It's kinda scary.
 
dyachei said:
One concern of mine is that they aren't planning on having a teaching hospital. Their students will be expected to travel around the state and find their own experiences.
Click to expand...

This is done at Western and to great effect, IMHO. I've been sooo impressed by Western grads.

However, I imagine that SoCal (and NoCal) has a LOT more practices to choose from than Tennessee.

I love love love Dean Eyre and think he is uber-brilliant, so I can't help but have SOME faith in this venture. However, I am deeply against opening up ANY new veterinary college and ESPECIALLY one that uses the nonexistent "shortage" of LA vets as justification for opening one.

http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=18992
 
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Minnerbelle said:
It's relevant as long as you understand supply and demand...

If students who entered vet school with an interest in LA were locked into practicing LA medicine, then yeah, I'd say whatevs. I mean, it would suck for those peeps but at least it wouldn't affect me as you say. But that's not how it works. A lot of people who even finish vet school wanting to practice LA med end up taking SA jobs for a variety of reasons (not being able to find a decent job is one that's not unheard of). The LA and SA job markets aren't like completely isolated from each other ya know.
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It's related to the thread, but not especially relevant.

The topic of debt and fear/sadness is already given a pretty fair representation on the forum.

It seems like more interesting questions, especially for the pre-vet community, would be:

- What are the specifics of the six year program they're proposing?
- When, exactly will it be up and running?
- What will be the cost, degree of selectivity and quality of education in relation to the established schools?

Also, that TNVet post gives me the creepie-heebie-jeebies.
 
Dsmoody23 said:
It's related to the thread, but not especially relevant.

The topic of debt and fear/sadness is already given a pretty fair representation on the forum.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with the rest of your post, but am still befuddled by your response to the debt/loan burden/job market issues facing our profession. There are many, MANY other topics on this board which are FAR FAR more recycled and repetitive (and much less important to the profession's health). Why pick on this one? Why not complain/call out all of the threads about interview attire, personal statement questions, eLOR writers, job shadowing, etc etc etc? Sheesh.

Carry on........
 
alliecat44 said:
I completely agree with the rest of your post, but am still befuddled by your response to the debt/loan burden/job market issues facing our profession. There are many, MANY other topics on this board which are FAR FAR more recycled and repetitive (and much less important to the profession's health). Why pick on this one? Why not complain/call out all of the threads about interview attire, personal statement questions, eLOR writers, job shadowing, etc etc etc? Sheesh.

Carry on........
Click to expand...

I guess the endless process questions seem much more active to me than the debt discussion. Those questions are directed towards a specific goal, and have actionable, specific information in the responses.

The debt topic bugs me, first, because it's so ubiquitous on this board and scares off newcomers who only see the doom and gloom. If every vet student who graduated and got a decent job posted a thread about it, the issue would be drowned out immediately. But the discussion gets focused on the constant negatives.

Secondly, we don't discuss possible solutions, on a large scale or on the individual level. And good information is rarely presented. The DVM360 article in post 5 is complete editorial, presented as an informative piece. The VIN article, later on, has this gem: "Craven is not an anomaly. A second graduate from the same program also is unemployed." One person is an anomaly, but two people is a professional trend? Bleh.
 
Dsmoody23 said:
I guess the endless process questions seem much more active to me than the debt discussion. Those questions are directed towards a specific goal, and have actionable, specific information in the responses.

The debt topic bugs me, first, because it's so ubiquitous on this board and scares off newcomers who only see the doom and gloom. If every vet student who graduated and got a decent job posted a thread about it, the issue would be drowned out immediately. But the discussion gets focused on the constant negatives.

Secondly, we don't discuss possible solutions, on a large scale or on the individual level. And good information is rarely presented. The DVM360 article in post 5 is complete editorial, presented as an informative piece. The VIN article, later on, has this gem: "Craven is not an anomaly. A second graduate from the same program also is unemployed." One person is an anomaly, but two people is a professional trend? Bleh.
Click to expand...

I agree that, generally speaking, people are way too emotional about the topic. They find one story, an editorial piece like you said, and think that it's painting a realistic picture.

But, I think that just means we should look for objective data; not avoid the topic.

vet-student-debt-to-income-chart.jpg
 
Again, that graph is shocking and scary, and it's showed up in every thread that this topic was under discussion. But in this context, it's pretty gratuitous.
 
The 6-yr program is actually interesting.

It's a pre-veterinary and doctoral level program combined. Since 99% of us have a bachelor's degree, this type of program would cut our post-high school education from a typical 8 years to 6. That has potential to impact the debt issue.

It sounds sorta like some of the programs in place to get you out of UG after your third year (like VetFAST at UMN), except even more integrated and with an additional year cut out.

Regarding the AVMA chart that Robdude posted.... has anyone seen a similar chart that doesn't exclude students with no debt? And, has anyone seen it with a median instead of mean? I can't find either, and I wouldn't expect them to change the picture dramatically, but I'm curious how they would compare to the chart he posted.
 
Dsmoody23 said:
Again, that graph is shocking and scary, and it's showed up in every thread that this topic was under discussion. But in this context, it's pretty gratuitous.
Click to expand...

I thought you were complaining that 'good' information was rarely presented and instead people relied on editorials or sample sizes consisting of 1-2.

The graph is neither of those things. Objective, large sample size, reliable source.
 
alliecat44 said:
If you think the number 5 is so insignificant--don't you think that if there were truly a rural LA shortage that there would be AT LEAST 5 rural LA jobs in the state of Kansas?
Click to expand...

I think employment rates for rural LA vets nationwide would be a useful number. Do you have any data that speaks to that?

The specific employment problems of two new grads is not exactly a statistical landslide.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos076.htm#outlook

There's the BLS outlook for 2010-11. Some notable points:

- "Employment of veterinarians is expected to increase 33 percent over the 2008–18 decade, much faster than the average for all occupations."

- "The number of jobs for farm-animal veterinarians is likely to grow more slowly than the number of jobs for companion-animal veterinarians. Nevertheless, job prospects should be excellent for farm-animal veterinarians because of their lower earnings and because many veterinarians do not want to work outside or in rural or isolated areas."
 
Robdude said:
I thought you were complaining that 'good' information was rarely presented and instead people relied on editorials or sample sizes consisting of 1-2.

The graph is neither of those things. Objective, large sample size, reliable source.
Click to expand...

I know that graph is normally the 'kill shot' in these discussions. It's better information than most, but it definitely doesn't relate to what we're talking about.

The topic is about an increase in new grads, and the effect it will have on employment opportunities. If you have data on that, excellent.

Absolutely everyone is in agreement that loans are out of control and starting income is too low.

Recycling the debt/income argument doesn't address the topic. As persuasive as it is, it's evidence for something that's not even being discussed in this thread.
 
Dsmoody23 said:
Recycling the debt/income argument doesn't address the topic. As persuasive as it is, it's evidence for something that's not even being discussed in this thread.
Click to expand...

But it is actually relevant.

Here are the points:
1) The amount of debt students carry directly affects the kind of positions they can take to cover their debt.
2) The problem of rural coverage is that farmers are limited in what they can afford to pay for veterinary services. This in turn limits the amount that vets can make as LA vets.

Combine these 2 points together and you get a situation where large debt squeezes many vets out of food animal into other areas because food animal income is smaller.

You can argue the degree of the problem, but the 2 issues are linked. If food animal was more prosperous, students with higher debt loads could provide service, or if debt levels were smaller, then more students could afford to have lower salaries.

Who knows? If debt levels continue to expand, maybe SA practice will be under-served and more vets will get industry jobs to support them.
 
Dsmoody23 said:
I know that graph is normally the 'kill shot' in these discussions. It's better information than most, but it definitely doesn't relate to what we're talking about.

The topic is about an increase in new grads, and the effect it will have on employment opportunities. If you have data on that, excellent.

Absolutely everyone is in agreement that loans are out of control and starting income is too low.

Recycling the debt/income argument doesn't address the topic. As persuasive as it is, it's evidence for something that's not even being discussed in this thread.
Click to expand...

I'm lol'ing.....

You haven't made a single post in this thread that fits your posted declaration of what the topic is. And, *your* stated topic (The topic is about an increase in new grads, and the effect it will have on employment opportunities) is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than the title of the thread (New Vet School Coming To Tennessee!).

Beyond that - if you count it up; there are more posts in this thread about vet school debt and the vet job market than anything else.
 
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I think the 6 yr program actually sounds pretty interesting. While I can't say that it would definitely reduce vet school debt (who knows how much they would charge for tuition) I do think it is a great choice for students who are planning on further schooling/training after a DVM degree, such as a student interested in pursuing board certification. This being said I am not really in favor of a new school being formed. I would be happier to see the AAVMC working to give accredidation to already established DVM programs with US citizens, such as SGU, rather than having them working to bring up a brand new DVM program that I don't think the USA even really needs.
 
Robdude said:
I'm lol'ing.....

You haven't made a single post in this thread that fits your posted declaration of what the topic is. And, *your* stated topic (The topic is about an increase in new grads, and the effect it will have on employment opportunities) is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than the title of the thread (New Vet School Coming To Tennessee!).

Beyond that - if you count it up; there are more posts in this thread about vet school debt and the vet job market than anything else.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I tried and failed to get some actual information flowing about the program in question. That turned into some vague statements made about job availability. I asked for evidence, and it turned into the debt debate.

So, cheers. We have another thread about debt, complete with the 1200x1200 pixel graph, and zero new information.

Pass.
 
sunnyshine said:
I think the 6 yr program actually sounds pretty interesting. While I can't say that it would definitely reduce vet school debt (who knows how much they would charge for tuition) I do think it is a great choice for students who are planning on further schooling/training after a DVM degree, such as a student interested in pursuing board certification. This being said I am not really in favor of a new school being formed. I would be happier to see the AAVMC working to give accredidation to already established DVM programs with US citizens, such as SGU, rather than having them working to bring up a brand new DVM program that I don't think the USA even really needs.
Click to expand...

There was another linked article about private schools in Arizona and Arkansas also doing exploratory research into opening schools, in the relatively near future.

As for tuition, one quote I saw in an article pegged it around 40K, or around as much as OOS for other schools.
 
As for proposing solutions to the current problems with new grads being unable to find jobs and the crazy debt:income ratio (salaries are affected by supply and demand), I propose....

....dun dun dun ...

that we DON'T add any more seats to ANY vet school, new or old, until conditions improve.

Also, my understanding from VIN is that the BLS gets a lot of their statistics from the AVMA, hence the overly rosy picture. In short, those figures of job growth of FOS.
 
eventualeventer said:
that we DON'T add any more seats to ANY vet school, new or old, until conditions improve..
Click to expand...

I think that's the smart approach. I'm not asking this to be sassy, it's a genuine question: wouldn't that indirectly cause tuition increases? I believe monetary reasons motivate many schools' expansions, and if they can't do that... isn't tuition the next place to gain funds?
 
Dsmoody23 said:
Yeah. I tried and failed to get some actual information flowing about the program in question. That turned into some vague statements made about job availability. I asked for evidence, and it turned into the debt debate.

So, cheers. We have another thread about debt, complete with the 1200x1200 pixel graph, and zero new information.

Pass.
Click to expand...

Do me a favor; go to the top of this page....scroll down...and look for the first completely off-topic image you see that provides zero new information.

Now look at who posted it. It wasn't me. It was you. 378x378 pixels of passive aggressive angst.

The image I posted was not 1200x1200. It wasn't even close to 1200x1200. It is 823x460.

To summarize...

Off-topic posts are okay when you do it. Not cool when anyone else does it.
Images with zero new information are okay when you do it. Not cool when anyone else does it.

Hypocrite or Troll - I'm not sure, but you are my favorite poster here, lol.
 
breenie said:
I believe monetary reasons motivate many schools' expansions, and if they can't do that... isn't tuition the next place to gain funds?
Click to expand...

Yes, I think you're absolutely right. The schools are all struggling due to budget cuts in higher education across the board. If they don't cut spending by cutting programs (fewer professors, fewer labs, etc...), then the money's gotta come from somewhere. I don't think the schools enjoy expanding class size. Especially for a program like vet med, the classroom space, lab space, and a lot of resources are made to fit a stable number of students. It's a logistical nightmare (at least that's what I've been told from a couple of schools that faced increases in recent years). It taxes professors as they have more work for no extra pay, and they have to worry about making sure that the quality of education doesn't suffer. But, again, money's gotta come from somewhere. It's either that or tuition hikes. Obviously, tuition goes up every year, but it would be a lot worse without class expansion. So I guess they're trying to pick the lesser of two evils. As much as I don't like it, I can't say I blame the existing schools for adding extra students, esp since I don't think anyone has any good long term solutions. I hope they figure out something soon though, because they can't keep pumping out more and more students. One thing I truly can't understand though, is why we need to open MORE schools.

Robdude said:
Hypocrite or Troll - I'm not sure, but you are my favorite poster here, lol.
Click to expand...

Sometimes, I kind of like to bring up student debt and crappy vet econ just to count how long it takes for Dsmoody to come a huffin and a puffin. :meanie:
 
eventualeventer said:
As for proposing solutions to the current problems with new grads being unable to find jobs and the crazy debt:income ratio (salaries are affected by supply and demand), I propose....

....dun dun dun ...

that we DON'T add any more seats to ANY vet school, new or old, until conditions improve.
Click to expand...

Easy to say when you're already admitted. 🙁

Increasing student debt is happening in all programs. Tuition and fees are getting more and more expensive and generally the economy still sucks. Until that has some improvement, there won't be much for changes.
 
Minnerbelle said:
Sometimes, I kind of like to bring up student debt and crappy vet econ just to count how long it takes for Dsmoody to come a huffin and a puffin. :meanie:
Click to expand...

I truly, truly hate the topic. And I will hate it vehemently in every thread it appears in.

And I'm not a huge fan of every pre-vet who gets an acceptance letter and immediately becomes the booming voice of responsible pragmatism about debt.

Back to our previously scheduled programming:

Who's excited about me stealing their job when I get my DVM from an Arizona school?
 
alliecat44 said:
This is done at Western and to great effect, IMHO. I've been sooo impressed by Western grads.

However, I imagine that SoCal (and NoCal) has a LOT more practices to choose from than Tennessee.

I love love love Dean Eyre and think he is uber-brilliant, so I can't help but have SOME faith in this venture. However, I am deeply against opening up ANY new veterinary college and ESPECIALLY one that uses the nonexistent "shortage" of LA vets as justification for opening one.

http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=18992
Click to expand...

Well, I have several issues with it. There are a limited number of large veterinary practices in TN that would give students the experience they would need. LMU is 30 minutes away from UT and they currently send the vet tech students to UT for their clinical experience. At current numbers, the case load to student ratio is already saturated. We don't need any more vet students in TN. Regardless of the student loan issue, the job market in TN is over-saturated.
 
dyachei said:
Well, I have several issues with it. There are a limited number of large veterinary practices in TN that would give students the experience they would need. LMU is 30 minutes away from UT and they currently send the vet tech students to UT for their clinical experience. At current numbers, the case load to student ratio is already saturated. We don't need any more vet students in TN. Regardless of the student loan issue, the job market in TN is over-saturated.
Click to expand...

I disagree agree about the job market being saturated in Tennessee. I have talked with several veterinarians, animal scientists, farmers, and horse trainers and all of them agree that is very hard to find a large animal vet when they need one. The vet that I am currently shadowing in East Tennessee has pretty much already promised me a large animal job when I get out of school. He says that there is always a demand for it.
 
RackingHorse said:
I disagree agree about the job market being saturated in Tennessee. I have talked with several veterinarians, animal scientists, farmers, and horse trainers and all of them agree that is very hard to find a large animal vet when they need one. The vet that I am currently shadowing in East Tennessee has pretty much already promised me a large animal job when I get out of school. He says that there is always a demand for it.
Click to expand...

Translate this to be..."it's very hard to find a large animal vet who will come out to your farm for next to nothing in the middle of the night for an emergency and then wait months to be paid 50% of their bill and get bad-mouthed in the community for sending them to collections because they need a modicum of payment to stay afloat" and to "there is always a demand for large animal veterinary services at next to zero cost" and you have it about right.
 
RackingHorse said:
I disagree agree about the job market being saturated in Tennessee. I have talked with several veterinarians, animal scientists, farmers, and horse trainers and all of them agree that is very hard to find a large animal vet when they need one. The vet that I am currently shadowing in East Tennessee has pretty much already promised me a large animal job when I get out of school. He says that there is always a demand for it.
Click to expand...

Believe me, it isn't hard to find a large animal vet. They may not like the LA vets that they find, but there are a ton of them out there. I am glad you have a job lined up, but most in the equine field need an internship at the very least to be competitive. In addition, the salaries are lousy. It may be different for the vet you are talking about, but I am sampling from my class and the classes before mine in addition to the clinical staff at UT (including our ambulatory service). Farm animal is easier to get into than equine.
 
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Dsmoody23 said:
I generally don't care much about location when I plan for the future, but I'm totally willing to make an exception for Arizona.
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Disclaimer: I'm from Wisconsin.

My grandpa and best friend have both moved to AZ (for separate reasons, being old and school, respectively). I have visited both of them. One near Tuscon, one at ASU.

GODDAMN, BOTH PLACES SUCKED.

Okay, the place near-ish to Tuscon was like a weird rural tinfoil hat wearing area and Phoenix seems like the armpit of the Southwest... but WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO LIVE IN THAT HEAT?

Totally open to fist fighting for jobs, btw.
 
dyachei said:
Well, I have several issues with it. There are a limited number of large veterinary practices in TN that would give students the experience they would need. LMU is 30 minutes away from UT and they currently send the vet tech students to UT for their clinical experience. At current numbers, the case load to student ratio is already saturated. We don't need any more vet students in TN. Regardless of the student loan issue, the job market in TN is over-saturated.
Click to expand...

I guess what I meant was that because I have such faith in Dean Eyre, I'm really really hoping that there's something we're missing about this new school in order to justify its existence. Just crossing my fingers that that's the case. Otherwise I'm completely against it.

Of course, if it ushered in a new generation/paradigm of 6-year post-high school combined veterinary programs with limited licensure, then I'd be all for it. 🙂 Impossible to say ATM, though, and definitely doesn't do anything for current graduates!!!!!
 
alliecat44 said:
I guess what I meant was that because I have such faith in Dean Eyre, I'm really really hoping that there's something we're missing about this new school in order to justify its existence. Just crossing my fingers that that's the case. Otherwise I'm completely against it.

Of course, if it ushered in a new generation/paradigm of 6-year post-high school combined veterinary programs with limited licensure, then I'd be all for it. 🙂 Impossible to say ATM, though, and definitely doesn't do anything for current graduates!!!!!
Click to expand...

There is some rumor of a strained relationship with UTK. That may be the missing piece.
 
breenie said:
Disclaimer: I'm from Wisconsin.

My grandpa and best friend have both moved to AZ (for separate reasons, being old and school, respectively). I have visited both of them. One near Tuscon, one at ASU.

GODDAMN, BOTH PLACES SUCKED.

Okay, the place near-ish to Tuscon was like a weird rural tinfoil hat wearing area and Phoenix seems like the armpit of the Southwest... but WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO LIVE IN THAT HEAT?

Totally open to fist fighting for jobs, btw.
Click to expand...

Flagstaff looks like this:

1989686129_65fb611e3d_o.jpg


You can ski in the morning, drive 2 hours and swim in an outdoor pool.

You can see the rim of the Grand Canyon from the city, which is surrounded by national park and wilderness.

The beach is west, Mexico is south and the best national parks in the world are north a ways.

If there's a school there, I will camp out on the steps of the admissions department until they let me in.
 
Escalla said:
Easy to say when you're already admitted. 🙁

Increasing student debt is happening in all programs. Tuition and fees are getting more and more expensive and generally the economy still sucks. Until that has some improvement, there won't be much for changes.
Click to expand...

All the more reason to do something now to ensure that new graduates can actually find a job, a job that pays well enough to pay off student debts and still have enough to live decently, i.e., not constantly stressed by barely having enough money to pay the bills. Pouring more vets into the economy isn't going to help. Changes happening now are going to affect the profession for decades to come - this isn't just about today's economy.

As for increased tuition, that's probably true, but if you can't get a job then you can't pay off any amount of tuition. I could swallow some tuition increases in return for the schools finding additional ways to balance the budget.

BTW, I say this because the more I learn and read on VIN, the more this whole thing about job prospects and debt scares the carp out of me. Our profession is going through critical changes, with the medical side advancing rapidly but the economic side deteriorating.

Regarding AZ, my understanding is that the job market for SA GP's in AZ is already lousy.
 
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