Pharmaceutical Industry 101

Hi. I am very interested in regulatory affairs but I do not know too much about it. Can someone please tell me what exactly it is? I know they are the liason with the health authorities and help with submissions of INDs and NDAs but what else do regulatory affairs professionals do?? Thank you.

pharmasaur said:

What can a 1st year pharmacy student do to prepare for a possible future in industry? I'm in Los Angeles so there is Allergan, Amgen, and Baxter nearby....and probably smaller companies I am unaware of.

I'm in a pickle because I am not 100% sure I want to go into industry but I do want to explore the option. All the hospital internships around here hire 1st years and you have to promise to work for them all summers and breaks for the next 3 years because they're structured internships with projects, rotations to different departments, etc. I am also considering clinical but not sure which is why I brought this up. Retail *seems* like it would be fun for a few months (just the initial excitement of having people walk up to your counter and talk to them) but I can imagine myself getting bored with it after a while. I like industry because I'm project-oriented and I like the business aspect of it plus being involved with new drugs sounds exciting. I think I'm realizing that pharmacy is very task-oriented...you do same tasks everyday....but I'm more creative and want to have more flexibility and input in my work. Should I just focus on industry and look for industry summer internships? The thing is I need a certain amount of intern hours for the boards and it has to be in a pharmacy setting.

Also, my school has a joint PharmD/MS in Reg Sci...is this useful? You finish in same amount of time, you just take some classes during one or two summers and the program hooks you up with an internship (albeit unpaid b/c it counts for units) one summer. Is this worth an additional 30K? Thing is I am not that interested in reg sci...more interested in the more "clinical" roles pharmacists have in industry. But it seems like a lot of PharmD students at my school sign up for this degree with no intention of going into reg sci, it's just kind of an intro into industry, and a lot of industry professionals are in the program so it's great networking.

P.S. Sorry one last thought, would it be helpful to volunteer in research lab and get research experience? Specifically with a PharmD professor who does clinical pharmacology studies?

Thanks for your input 😀

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I am guessing you go to USC. You should do the dual degree. I don't know any other school that offers a dual degree PharmD + MS in Regulatory Science (I may be wrong) so take advantage of it. I've seen alot of PharmD/MS Reg Sci in industry. There is also the MS in Management of Drug Development at USC. I haven't seen too many with that focus but it can certainly help. Either way, the MS will give you a strong understanding of drug development and the regulatory aspects involved in getting a drug to market. As you mentioned, there are alot of industry professionals in the program so it is great networking (I have seen directors and managers take the course).

If you are interested in industry you need to setup internships/rotations early on in your pharmacy school career.

Hopeful in NJ said:

Hi. I am very interested in regulatory affairs but I do not know too much about it. Can someone please tell me what exactly it is? I know they are the liason with the health authorities and help with submissions of INDs and NDAs but what else do regulatory affairs professionals do?? Thank you.

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The top-level things that come to mind:
- Actually put together all the submission-related documentation
- Negotiate with the FDA on all communication related to the company's products
- Advise R&D, marketing and business development on whether a particular opportunity is viable from a regulatory perspective - what would be the requirements to get this indication or get this drug to market, how long it would take, etc.
- Work with pharmacovigilance/safety to prepare required safety updates for the FDA
- Review all promotional materials before they can be used by sales & marketing, and all the materials used by the MSLs, and some pieces used by corporate communication - basically, anything that goes outside the company, they usually have a say in that (along with other people)

The best people to ask would be people who actually work in regulatory - since you are in New Jersey, you should have access to the people in Rutgers fellowship program, they do have a few regulatory programs and could answer your questions in much more detail.

pharmasaur said:

Should I just focus on industry and look for industry summer internships? The thing is I need a certain amount of intern hours for the boards and it has to be in a pharmacy setting.

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I would certainly try for an industry internship, but I would get a job in a hospital or a retail pharmacy anyway. You can always quit if you get an industry internship (and it is an IF, these things are quite competitive, at least, they used to be, and I can't imagine that changing dramatically). And having held a job is always better than never having set foot in a pharmacy apart from IPPE/APPE, whatever you end up doing later.

Also, my school has a joint PharmD/MS in Reg Sci...is this useful? Is this worth an additional 30K? Thing is I am not that interested in reg sci...more interested in the more "clinical" roles pharmacists have in industry.

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My philosophy is always that it is not worth spending time or money on something you don't want to do. If you have a chance to talk to some of the program's alumni, I would strongly recommend that - perhaps, you will decide that you do like what they do and thus develop a sincere interest in regulatory. But if you just don't think it is what you want to do - it is not worth the time or the effort. It will not give you an edge when it comes to any other program... except the small advantage of having done an internship, but again, if you are looking for a clinical program, such as medical information/medical affairs, then working at a hospital and getting involved with some research projects would give you more of an edge.

I have been asked this question time and time again: "Is it worth applying for a fellowship if I have been out of school for X years working hospital or a retail".

For any X>1 year, my answer is going to be an unequivocal NO. I have never met anyone who would get into a fellowship when they have been out of school for more than year, and I have never heard of anyone like that. And having been an interviewer for a few years, I cannot imagine taking someone like that in. It may sound cruel and unfair, but here are the reasons:

- A fellowship is intended to be a program for newly graduated pharmacist. If you have any real work experience, you should be looking for a real job, not a fellowship.
- There are a lot of strong applicants, and having been out for a while, it is very, very hard to compete with them. People who do not go into industry right away lose on several points: enthusiasm (if you really wanted to do industry, why did you wait X years?), experience (those with a lot of industry-related experience usually apply their P-4 year), and they generally have little to show on their CV from their years spend in retail or hospital staff pharmacy. And if they do have a lot to show - then again, the question is, why are they not looking for a real job in industry?

The gray area is when someone has applied for a fellowship their P-4 year, and did not get in (and there are a lot of very strong candidates who do not, unfortunately, get in simply because there are a lot of good applicants and their program(s) of choice liked someone else more). Then they go, get a job, and then come to Midyear to try again. They suffer a bit of a disadvantage too, since there is a crop of new excellent candidates, which are hard to compete against. It always breaks my heart when someone who is a very good candidate, maybe a 90 out of 100, is re-applying - only to lose yet again to someone who is a 95 or a 97 (not that there are any real hard numbers, it's how I would put relative weights on these people).

I would say if you really want to do industry, applying your first year out of school may still be worthwhile - but anything later than that is probably going to be frustrating and fruitless. In that case, it is better to start getting relevant experience (or additional education, depending on what exactly you want to do) and start applying for jobs in industry, rather than fellowships.

The upside is that pharma layoffs have slowed (just 11K this year as opposed to 22K last year and 45-55K per year in 2008-2010)... and in fact there is a bit of hiring going on (though in the true Catch-22 fashion, most hiring is for experienced, not entry-level positions).

Since I have written it for a thread in the Residency subforum, I might as well copy it here as it is relevant to the thread.

The information below relates to the candidate evaluation process at the Midyear interviews. That specific environment differs from typical interview situations in that the candidate is interviewed without their CV being seen by the interviewer. That means that a) candidates are not pre-screened, and as a consequence, not limited to those believed to be the best fit for the position and b) when the interviewer does get a chance to read the CV, his or her mind is already largely made up as far as what to do with the applicant. CV will matter in those cases when the interviewer is on the fence, or if there are significant red flags in the CV that may spoil an otherwise pretty good impression from the interview.

Candidate evaluation process varies significantly from company to company on a company. Each company uses a very different form to evaluate candidates (and some may not be using a form at all, though all the programs I have ever spoken with do). Different programs look for different things, obviously. And different people tend to score differently, and tend to perceive intangibles differently. It's all about more art than science. I also find that rookie interviewers tend to rely on interview guides/suggested questions/score sheets and other materials company provides more than the experienced ones.

Funnily enough, every single recruitment-related meeting I have been a part of has always been the same. The top three or so candidates were obvious and universally agreed upon without even resorting to any notes or scorecards. It's when you start going below your top five or six choices when you really need to pull out numbers because they are not really standouts and all blend together. Generally, people invite about 5 or 6 people on site for interviews, but because things happen, it's always good to have a pool of three or four reserve candidates in case you don't get your top picks to pick you. Same thing happens when the final decisions about the offer are being made. Never an argument about #1, rarely about #2 - it's when you go to the rest of the pack, when you need to rely on notes and perceptions of different interviewers to come to a common decision.

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The biggest thing is the impression you make in your very first interview with that company. Your CV is a very secondary thing because there is simply no time to go over it in any detail because we talk to people before we see their resumes at the Midyear. The thing is, can you give good enough answers to the interviewers' questions if you do not have the experiences to base them on? Maybe you can - and then you will progress at least to the second round at the Midyear (a lot more students go through two or three rounds at the Midyear than get invited to onsite interviews). But if you cannot - it is not your lack of experiences per se that has killed your chances, it is your lack of soft skills the company is looking for (and it really is about attitudes and personalities and thinking and communication skills, because even if you have done a couple internships in the exact area where you seek a fellowship, it still doesn't count as any real work experience). We know that students don't have relevant work experience, the fellowship is meant to be the point of entry into industry. We know that different pharmacy schools provide different opportunities to their students - so I will hold lack of an industry rotation against a Rutgers or a USP students because they get those rotations handed to them on the silver plate. I will not hold lack of industry experience against someone from University of Idaho, or Mississippi or whatever. But if the student really has nothing to show for themselves except going to school - I won't consider them because they lack initiative and ability to handle multiple things at once, not because I cannot check a certain number of boxes on the evaluation form.

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IndustryPharmD said:

Since I have written it for a thread in the Residency subforum, I might as well copy it here as it is relevant to the thread.

The information below relates to the candidate evaluation process at the Midyear interviews. That specific environment differs from typical interview situations in that the candidate is interviewed without their CV being seen by the interviewer. That means that a) candidates are not pre-screened, and as a consequence, not limited to those believed to be the best fit for the position and b) when the interviewer does get a chance to read the CV, his or her mind is already largely made up as far as what to do with the applicant. CV will matter in those cases when the interviewer is on the fence, or if there are significant red flags in the CV that may spoil an otherwise pretty good impression from the interview.

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great information thanks! The few interviews I set up so far, they all asked me to e-mail them my CV, but looks like they won't read it till mid year?

and I go to school in midwest so we don't get exposure to the industry, I have been doing research on different positions and also attended information session for Rutgers at my schools career fair.... but I still feel lost at what all the positions are like, and Im not sure how to answer why I want to work in this area as opposed to the other, I mean i have a little bit idea but having no experiences with them and from only reading posts and such is really hard...arrrgh I have been researching everyday for the past few weeks, man seems like its really competitive, my chances does not look too good so far lol

Deja said:

great information thanks! The few interviews I set up so far, they all asked me to e-mail them my CV, but looks like they won't read it till mid year?

and I go to school in midwest so we don't get exposure to the industry, I have been doing research on different positions and also attended information session for Rutgers at my schools career fair.... but I still feel lost at what all the positions are like, and Im not sure how to answer why I want to work in this area as opposed to the other, I mean i have a little bit idea but having no experiences with them and from only reading posts and such is really hard...arrrgh I have been researching everyday for the past few weeks, man seems like its really competitive, my chances does not look too good so far lol

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A lot of your interviews are set up by the current fellows of the program which means they will usually scan your CV for basic qualifications and perhaps star any that stand out (although most CV/resumes will be more or less the same).

Other ways to "research" positions (besides reading this thread or similar industry threads on studentdoc) include contacting fellows or actual professionals in industry about their functions and responsibilities. You can even go on pharmaceutical industry career websites and look up potential positions and read up on their roles..

Deja said:

great information thanks! The few interviews I set up so far, they all asked me to e-mail them my CV, but looks like they won't read it till mid year?

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It depends. Those positions that allow interview sign up via e-mail in advance of the meeting will probably read your CV. Those that only do sign-up on-site, probably will not. In any case, interview trumps paper every single time, regardless of the order.

Im not sure how to answer why I want to work in this area as opposed to the other,

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Well, there is something that attracts you to those positions? Or is it simply "I hate retail and hospital so let me try industry"? In the latter case, it will be rather tough, I agree. Otherwise, honesty is all you need. I will see through BS (and I know that even students who did a rotation in that exact field in industry don't know half of what the job entails) anyway. Tell me what aspects of the job you like, what matches your personality, what excites you, what you hope to achieve from the fellowship experience.

Reading position descriptions in the program brochures is a good place to start. And then it is a very fair game to ask your interviewers about their day to day work. It is also OK to realize halfway through the interview that this position is not what you thought it would be. I have personally seen that as an interviewer - and also felt it as a candidate, for fellowships and for jobs. It is also perfectly OK to say that to your interviewer so you don't waste their time and yours going through the motions. Instead, remainder of the interview can be spent discussing what positions may fit your interests better. I have done that too when both the candidate and I agreed that our position is not the best match for him/her...

Yeah I have been looking through program brochures nonstop lol Seems like most fellowships are regulatory affairs and medical affairs tho... Business intelligence sounds pretty cool, but I don't think it's offered =/

I have looked through this year's Rutgers offerings (can't really check others out since that would require either access to the PPS or going through all the companies one by one and I am not THAT dedicated to serving students I also looked at Lilly since I was asked about that program recently - it would really be easier if there was a central directory for fellowships, like there is for residencies )... Seems to be fewer positions than in the last couple years, and some companies are listed as not recruiting at all this year. Some interesting positions are still offered, though...

Of course, most are on the medical side - but it makes sense. That's what pharmacists and pharmacy students are best prepared for, and that's what most applicants are interested in (in my experience). I did see a couple analytics positions, a couple managed markets ones with different twists, even a business development one. But I can't recall if I saw a plain marketing one... And there are a lot of field-based medicine type positions (MSL, essentially), which I don't think even were available for fellowships until a year or two ago... The landscape is changing. I would hope it is to reflect the job openings, but I have a hunch most of the changes have to do more with the internal workings of the companies and departments and not with the best interest of fellows...

So much of one's career is really just a matter of being in the right place at the right time. I was just speaking with a colleague today how glad we are that we graduated before the tuition skyrocketed (I remember there were huge protests when tuition was raised 4.5% one year... and now students just swallow 10% annual increases silently!), and while the pharma (and pharmacy) jobs were plentiful.

As a seasoned interviewer, how importantly do you rank previous industry experience? Internships have become extremely competitive, and it seems that companies are only interested in hiring fellows who have already had industry/FDA fellowships/rotations.

Unfortunately, I have been unsuccessful in obtaining experience in industry. I am interested in pursuing a Clinical Development fellowship, and have had research experience writing protocols and grants. I feel like these skills can be valuable for conducting clinical trials. However, do industry interviewers consider this experience as valuable as having had an industry rotation/internship? In other words, will someone with industry experience automatically be pushed to the top of the list? Fellowship positions are scarce, usually with only 1 position for the Clinical Development department in each company, so it seems like those few with experience would automatically become the top contenders for that position.

Is this a correct assumption?

Thank you for your responses! They have been immensely helpful.

luciditea said:

Is this a correct assumption?

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Not at all. World is a lot less black-and-white, thankfully.

The two things we are looking for when hiring fellows (who we know do not really have experience to actually do the job - a couple months are not nearly enough to make someone proficient!) are
1) someone who CAN do the job, AND
2) someone who WANTS to do the job

The reason an industry rotation or internship gives a candidate a leg up is that it serves as a surrogate for their interest in the industry and in some cases for their skill set. However, it is only for the first glance, because once you start digging deeper, a lot of students who do industry rotations at the Tri-State area schools only do them because they get sent there, no different than their rotations at a local Wal-Mart or University Hospital. That's why I don't generally place much weight on someone from Rutgers or USP having done an industry rotation. Now, when I see someone from, say, University of Idaho having done an industry rotation - that tells me that this person is really interested in industry AND has many good skills - researching opportunities, pushing projects through - because he or she has probably had to find and set up this rotation himself/herself. It's not such students' industry experience in an of itself that will give them an edge, it's what that experience implies that will give them an edge.

If you have experience directly relevant to the position you want to get - it is worth more than someone's industry rotation in a totally unrelated area. You just need to be able to sell it as such. You should be able to describe these experiences in terms of what it has done to bolster your interest in clinical development as an area, and in terms of what you can bring to the table (for example, "I have worked with X university IRB committees getting protocols through, so I can hold my own in any discussion, and I also know what kind of help independent investigators need when they ask for support.")

Is there a way a retail pharmacist can get into big pharma some how? Would any of the companies be willing to hire someone with retail experience.. or train them? I graduated in 07 so a fellowship is probably out of question..

rxrlm said:

Is there a way a retail pharmacist can get into big pharma some how? Would any of the companies be willing to hire someone with retail experience.. or train them? I graduated in 07 so a fellowship is probably out of question..

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Well, you are right that a fellowship five years out of school is extremely unlikely.

As far as can you get into big pharma? Probably yes, but it would be very difficult. Depends on whether you can tailor your resume to get past the screeners and recruiters looking for someone with industry experience - and then if you can convince the company that you have some skills that are worth them taking a chance on you.

I think that you would have better luck with a small start-up than with big pharma... I don't know if at big pharma you will even get to the stage of a live person looking at your resume... they tend to use recruiters, too, the postings are more because that's a requirement... Now, a small start-up might be willing to take a chance on you - but would that be a job you would want to do? It would probably be either literature searches/evaluation or quality assurance type role - and for these, a retail pharmacist is not an expert and costs too much money... but if they are desperate, or if you get a personal recommendation - that might work out.

.

Health economics and outcomes research (HEOR) would be a good way to go. Although, its going to be very very different from the economics that you learned with your econ degree. More to do with cost effectiveness and pt reported outcomes. Maybe you could focus on the applied econ portion of the department where they need people to conduct willingness to pay studies for pricing purposes. The drug companies are always looking for people that can demonstrate value to the payers. Just my $0.02, I am sure IndustryPharmD will have a much more detailed answer than me 😀

hereticmnk said:

Health economics and outcomes research (HEOR) would be a good way to go. Although, its going to be very very different from the economics that you learned with your econ degree. More to do with cost effectiveness and pt reported outcomes. Maybe you could focus on the applied econ portion of the department where they need people to conduct willingness to pay studies for pricing purposes. The drug companies are always looking for people that can demonstrate value to the payers. Just my $0.02, I am sure IndustryPharmD will have a much more detailed answer than me 😀

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PRO rocks my socks 😀

Hi Hereticmnk,

Thank you for your input, and I will definitely look into both health economics and outcomes research as possible options.

I am actually going to send IndustryPharmD a private message, which is much more specific, (mentioning company and location names etc.) hence I am going to delete the above post, as I don't
want to be bothering her with two posts at the one time.

So, please don't be offended by me deleting the above post, and thanks again for you input!

Take care

rxlea said:

PRO rocks my socks 😀

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Its where outcomes research is heading, be it PCORI and comparative effectiveness research or cost utility analysis 😀

reprobate said:

Hi Hereticmnk,

Thank you for your input, and I will definitely look into both health economics and outcomes research as possible options.

I am actually going to send IndustryPharmD a private message, which is much more specific, (mentioning company and location names etc.) hence I am going to delete the above post, as I don't
want to be bothering her with two posts at the one time.

So, please don't be offended by me deleting the above post, and thanks again for you input!

Take care

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Np, I edited my previous post to remove your quote as well. Good luck!

thanks for doing this thread!

I'm entering into pharmacy school this year (graduate 2017), but am extremely interested in pursuing clinical research.

I've been working for a little over two years in the clinical research industry at a prominent CRO followed by a local IRB; I've worked mostly with regulatory documents and I'll have my CCRP certification before I start school.

I've already made a few contacts with board members who are pharmacists, and I believe there's a good chance I will be given the opportunity to join one of our boards after I begin school, so I will gain that experience as well.

will this type of experience give me a leg up on the competition? what other things should I be looking for to bolster my resume?

I'm most interested in either working in oncology clinical trials in a hospital setting, or working as a medical writer and helping compose protocols/etc. obviously my interests might change (as morally questionable as it might seem, I could see myself doing very well in pharmaceutical sales), but I'd like to start working on this stuff now if possible.

thanks!

hereticmnk said:

Health economics and outcomes research (HEOR) would be a good way to go. Although, its going to be very very different from the economics that you learned with your econ degree. More to do with cost effectiveness and pt reported outcomes. Maybe you could focus on the applied econ portion of the department where they need people to conduct willingness to pay studies for pricing purposes. The drug companies are always looking for people that can demonstrate value to the payers. Just my $0.02, I am sure IndustryPharmD will have a much more detailed answer than me 😀

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Whew. Competition for HEOR fellowships was fierce this year...

Holy cow! so much helpful info, thank you very much for taking time and effort to write this!

homeslice said:

Whew. Competition for HEOR fellowships was fierce this year...

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Yup, they usually are. Here is a link of all the outcomes fellowships if you are still considering any for the future.
http://www.ispor.org/education/fellowships_directory.asp

homeslice said:

Whew. Competition for HEOR fellowships was fierce this year...

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It's only going to get tougher in coming years...

hereticmnk said:

Its where outcomes research is heading, be it PCORI and comparative effectiveness research or cost utility analysis 😀

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I'm totally loving the direction it's heading.

Although Rasch Analysis (what I'm doing/learning now) is probably the most complicated form of stats I've seen thus far. I feel dumb everyday.

rxlea said:

I'm totally loving the direction it's heading.

Although Rasch Analysis (what I'm doing/learning now) is probably the most complicated form of stats I've seen thus far. I feel dumb everyday.

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Taking a bunch of stats this year. Will be taking econometrics next semester and psychometrics even later. Now I know who to PM when I get to the Rasch model

hereticmnk said:

Taking a bunch of stats this year. Will be taking econometrics next semester and psychometrics even later. Now I know who to PM when I get to the Rasch model

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Yeah, I'm doing a foundational health economics class this semester plus the psychometrics/PRO class (and grad seminar 🙄 )

Econometrics, one more advanced stats class, and a pharm policy class are all I have left for my curriculum! 😀

I can tell you that the only textbook I ever regretted selling is statistics. Recently, I had to retrain myself on some analyses, and all I can say is thank goodness for Excel and internet! I remember liking stats in undergrad, but it has been too long ago and too long unused so I could barely remember even the simplest things. 🙂 So love your statistics, it will probably be useful wherever you end up and whatever you end up doing.

uhohwhatever said:

I'm entering into pharmacy school this year (graduate 2017), but am extremely interested in pursuing clinical research.

I've been working for a little over two years in the clinical research industry at a prominent CRO followed by a local IRB; I've worked mostly with regulatory documents and I'll have my CCRP certification before I start school.

I've already made a few contacts with board members who are pharmacists, and I believe there's a good chance I will be given the opportunity to join one of our boards after I begin school, so I will gain that experience as well.

will this type of experience give me a leg up on the competition? what other things should I be looking for to bolster my resume?

I'm most interested in either working in oncology clinical trials in a hospital setting, or working as a medical writer and helping compose protocols/etc. obviously my interests might change (as morally questionable as it might seem, I could see myself doing very well in pharmaceutical sales), but I'd like to start working on this stuff now if possible.

thanks!

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Well, you are on the right track so far - gaining research experience and IRB experience. That will certainly help if you end up looking for a research fellowship. But just in case your interests change - try to explore different opportunities if they come your way. If you have a chance to do an internship in the industry - take it, it may help. Try to get involved into different steps of research process to gain a better perspective. Choose a variety of rotations.

And the most important: soft skills. Technical skills can be taught, we don't expect new grads to have any of real value, to be honest. But soft skills - communication, teamwork, work ethic, etc. - these are what counts. They are what will determine whether you make it beyond Midyear meeting.

Good luck!

Thank you for all the information you are sharing! As an industrial pharmacy hopeful, this thread has been very helpful.

I am an expat who has been working at a top Korean pharmaceutical company for the past year and a half. I lucked out and entered this field without any science background (I majored in Economics and worked in Art Business for a couple years), and my company has been great about training me on the job. My position is within the company's ODM sector, and I handle International Business projects (for overseas clients wanting to enter the Korean market or Korean companies planning to export). I don't have an exact title here - the Korean system for titles is a little different, and my role has evolved from doing basic market research and interpreting at business meetings to that of a Project Manager. So my main responsibilities are to oversee projects from product development to regulation to package design.

Although I enjoy my current job and have a pretty good understanding of this field in Korea, I want to move back to the states and continue to work in Industrial Pharmacy. I figured that I need formal education in Pharmacy to last in this field, so I am now a pre-pharm planning to attend an American pharmacy school.

Do you think:

(1) going to pharmacy school is the right step toward a US Industrial Pharmacy career?
Another option I considered was switching jobs to a global branch of big pharm companies (Pfizer, Novartis, Sanofi... all of these companies have branches in my city) and hope that I can eventually be transferred to the states. However, I heard transferring between global branches is difficult and very rare. Do you have any experience or feedback in regards to this?

(2) My biggest concern is that my current work experience will not translate to the US.
After I enter pharm school and I begin the search for industrial pharmacy internships or fellowships - do you think my current experience be considered relevant?

yoadrianne44 said:

Thank you for all the information you are sharing! As an industrial pharmacy hopeful, this thread has been very helpful.

I am an expat who has been working at a top Korean pharmaceutical company for the past year and a half. I lucked out and entered this field without any science background (I majored in Economics and worked in Art Business for a couple years), and my company has been great about training me on the job. My position is within the company's ODM sector, and I handle International Business projects (for overseas clients wanting to enter the Korean market or Korean companies planning to export). I don't have an exact title here - the Korean system for titles is a little different, and my role has evolved from doing basic market research and interpreting at business meetings to that of a Project Manager. So my main responsibilities are to oversee projects from product development to regulation to package design.

Although I enjoy my current job and have a pretty good understanding of this field in Korea, I want to move back to the states and continue to work in Industrial Pharmacy. I figured that I need formal education in Pharmacy to last in this field, so I am now a pre-pharm planning to attend an American pharmacy school.

Do you think:

(1) going to pharmacy school is the right step toward a US Industrial Pharmacy career?
Another option I considered was switching jobs to a global branch of big pharm companies (Pfizer, Novartis, Sanofi... all of these companies have branches in my city) and hope that I can eventually be transferred to the states. However, I heard transferring between global branches is difficult and very rare. Do you have any experience or feedback in regards to this?

(2) My biggest concern is that my current work experience will not translate to the US.
After I enter pharm school and I begin the search for industrial pharmacy internships or fellowships - do you think my current experience be considered relevant?

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IMHO, a business or management degree would suit you better than a pharmacy degree.

If one is interested in industrial jobs, would it be good to get a Business minor while in school or is it only the MBA that counts?

Hi everyone,

I am interested in working in the US Pharmaceutical Industry. I'm currently a clinical hospital pharmacist working in the emergency department of an excellent hospital in Ontario. I completed my Bachelor of Science in Pharm here (here considered equivalent to US entry level pharm D) and an Accredited residency in hospital pharmacy. I am moving to Cleveland, Ohio and interested in doing something different and starting fresh in the pharma industry. I would ideally like something similar to an MSL position but am flexible. It appears the fellowships would not accept me because I only have a bachelor 🙁 and many of the companies do not support Visa sponsorship. Any suggestions or advice?

Thanks!

Eichhoernchen said:

If one is interested in industrial jobs, would it be good to get a Business minor while in school or is it only the MBA that counts?

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Whether to get a business degree and when and what degree - all those questions depend on what you want to be when you grow up.

CanadianPhm said:

I am moving to Cleveland, Ohio and interested in doing something different and starting fresh in the pharma industry. I would ideally like something similar to an MSL position but am flexible. It appears the fellowships would not accept me because I only have a bachelor 🙁 and many of the companies do not support Visa sponsorship. Any suggestions or advice?

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Yep, pharma fellowships are for US PharmD program grads, basically. And Cleveland is not exactly a hotbed of pharmaceutical industry. I can't think of any more or less significant company located in that area... so your only bet would be to try for an MSL or a sales position, since they are field-based. Whether you can get an MSL job would depend on how much experience you have, since you don't have a doctorate degree. If you have more than five years, you may be able to swing it... especially if the company is smaller/newer or sells a product for an indication very relevant to the ER. I would look at sales positions, too... Though if you need visa sponshorship, that would make it a VERY tough proposition - unless you are a unique specialist, I can't see a company bothering with it when there are oodles of great candidates with credentials as good or better than yours who don't require any bureaucratic hoop jumping on part of the employer.

yoadrianne44 said:

I figured that I need formal education in Pharmacy to last in this field, so I am now a pre-pharm planning to attend an American pharmacy school.

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Not at all. If you want to do market research or project management, you absolutely do not need a pharmacy degree. You need experience, which you do have - though ex-US would be a tougher sell than in-US.

(1) going to pharmacy school is the right step toward a US Industrial Pharmacy career?
Another option I considered was switching jobs to a global branch of big pharm companies (Pfizer, Novartis, Sanofi... all of these companies have branches in my city) and hope that I can eventually be transferred to the states. However, I heard transferring between global branches is difficult and very rare. Do you have any experience or feedback in regards to this?

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If you want to work in pharmaceutical industry, unless you want to be firmly on the clinical side, going to the pharmacy school is going to be a lot of wasted time and money. Pharmacy schools prepare one to practice pharmacy in a patient-facing role, they absolutely do not prepare one to jump into vast majority of positions within pharmaceutical industry.

As far as going to a major transnational - that is probably a good option. Though my experience is that they prefer to send US people abroad and then bring them back to bringing someone from a local office to the headquarters - but that's just the function of where I am myself. Though many companies will rotate employees from local offices to the US for a year or so - I have met quite a few people who did programs like that - and that could provide an opportunity to go to the US especially if you have US citizenship or permanent resident status (read": no visa necessary).

(2) My biggest concern is that my current work experience will not translate to the US.
After I enter pharm school and I begin the search for industrial pharmacy internships or fellowships - do you think my current experience be considered relevant?

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Market research techniques are fairly universal, I would believe, and the project management is too... If you go to pharmacy school, then you would be competing against young students with no experience whatsoever - and internships and fellowships will count your experience against you. They are the programs meant to provide experience for those who have none...

Good luck!

IndustryPharmD said:

All I can say, for entry-level positions someone without industry experience is likely to get, it will probably be less than retail. But the potential for compensation growth is much greater than in retail.

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Over $200k?

Thank you very much for this thread.

I have had a couple of friends who currently work for Big Pharma (albeit on the business side) suggest that I look into staffing agencies. I have heard that staffing agencies can contract you for a temporary position and based on performance, you might get a full time position out of it. I am currently entering my last year of school and was not able to get industry type rotations. Do you have experience in dealing with staffing agencies, or might have one that you recommend? Thank you.

navrick said:

I have had a couple of friends who currently work for Big Pharma (albeit on the business side) suggest that I look into staffing agencies. I have heard that staffing agencies can contract you for a temporary position and based on performance, you might get a full time position out of it. I am currently entering my last year of school and was not able to get industry type rotations. Do you have experience in dealing with staffing agencies, or might have one that you recommend? Thank you.

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The only temp to hire positions I have seen commonly filled by agencies were in fairly generic fields - IT, paralegals, accountants, custodial services... I think that Kelly is the biggest temp provider to pharma. I have heard of temps in other fields, but those were directly posted on company websites and people applied to them directly, and usually those are for people with experience, not new grads.

The other type of positions I can think of are not quite staffing agencies, but more rent-a-rep
or rent-an-MSL type companies where a pharma company can contract X reps or MSLs for a set period of time to promote their products... I suppose that could be an option too... I don't think those people often end up being hired by the pharma company upon completion of the assignment... but at least that could be experience that you could list when applying for a true pharma position later.

Hi! This is my first time posting on here so please bear with me if I make some sort of mistake.

I'm a pharmacy student who just finished their first professional year after four years in undergrad. I'm about to start a dual degree program for a PharmD / MS in Pharmaceutical science. I just wanted to know how much more competitive this would make me for a fellowship and eventually a career in industry. Will it make me more likely to be able to move up into higher positions within industry? I'm pretty confident that it will make me better at what I do and thats what is most important to me but I also have more than double the student debt of the average pharmacy student so I'm wondering what extra opportunities it would open for me to move up into something that I both liked and allowed me to address the debt issue. Whats your opinion on such credentials?

Hello

It's incredible, the amount of advice that is filled in this page. I am in a sort of a dilemma and since you have been able to provide a lot of just advice to the previous readers I would like to give this a shot. I aam currently working as a Chemist with a contract manufacturing lab. I have the admission to a new pharmacy school about a year old now. I had applied to the school with the intent that I wanted to explore my options with the pharmacy field in the industrial side. It's not that I applied out of the blue. A failed attempt earlier towards procuring the admission, my background with pharmaceutica currently and incomplete education of pharmacy back in my country is what provided me the motivation to apply this time. I don't mean to waste your time here but I am little worried. Is the induatry still open to new graduates, that too while graduating from a new school, and with experience in the industry but not related to pharmacy?

In addition, I have looked into fellowship programs and I believe a PharmD is a must for that as u mentioned in ur previous replies to other readers. How difficult would it be to procure a fellowship as such?

Thank you

I had 3 plus years of retail experience and I managed to gain a hospital residency (worked in a hospital before applying), what are my chances of obtaining a fellowship? I am interested in research development. Additionally how can I obtain more info before networking day.

Hello,

I have been stalking this forum for awhile but decided to join so I could ask a question.🙂

I am planning to attend Midyear and apply for fellowships through PPS. However, reading through older posts has me wondering whether a fellowship would be the best option for me.

I was given the opportunity to intern with a pharma company in Regulatory Affairs before starting pharmacy school and was hired on to work full-time in the ~8 month or so gap between graduating from undergrad and starting school again. Since then, I've been working part-time during school and full-time during breaks.

Since I have more experience than just a typical internship, would it be best to try and apply for a job rather than go the fellowship route?

Also, do you know many people in industry who worked at FDA first? I will be doing a rotation there and will likely apply there as well.

Thank you!

TerrBear said:

Hello,

I have been stalking this forum for awhile but decided to join so I could ask a question.🙂

I am planning to attend Midyear and apply for fellowships through PPS. However, reading through older posts has me wondering whether a fellowship would be the best option for me.

I was given the opportunity to intern with a pharma company in Regulatory Affairs before starting pharmacy school and was hired on to work full-time in the ~8 month or so gap between graduating from undergrad and starting school again. Since then, I've been working part-time during school and full-time during breaks.

Since I have more experience than just a typical internship, would it be best to try and apply for a job rather than go the fellowship route?

Also, do you know many people in industry who worked at FDA first? I will be doing a rotation there and will likely apply there as well.

Thank you!

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Depends on which industry function you are interested in. If you are still interested in regulatory, it might make sense to just get a job right out of pharm. school. However, having a fellowship under your belt with the professional development part of the fellowship training may benefit you in the beginning of your career growth. For example, it is not uncommon for post-fellows to start out as project managers and managers in regulatory whereas if you just went straight into a regulatory position from school, you will probably start out as a associate or specialist and work your way up to manager in 2-3 years.

Regarding your question about the FDA, typically people that work at the FDA will stay at the FDA because of the job security, benefits, perks etc.. I also did a rotation at the FDA, but I realized the pace was way too lax and slow for me (i.e. 2 hour lunch breaks, work out bench in a freaking office...no wonder our submissions take forever to be reviewed). That being said, I do know a few that left the FDA and went into industry, but these are people that already worked their 20+ years in the agency for their pension, and are working as consultants or some executive for $200k+ salary.

knight on horse said:

Over $200k?

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Yes, many directors and above. 200k+ includes bonus,stock options, etc...

brookwalshy said:

Hi! This is my first time posting on here so please bear with me if I make some sort of mistake.

I'm a pharmacy student who just finished their first professional year after four years in undergrad. I'm about to start a dual degree program for a PharmD / MS in Pharmaceutical science. I just wanted to know how much more competitive this would make me for a fellowship and eventually a career in industry. Will it make me more likely to be able to move up into higher positions within industry? I'm pretty confident that it will make me better at what I do and thats what is most important to me but I also have more than double the student debt of the average pharmacy student so I'm wondering what extra opportunities it would open for me to move up into something that I both liked and allowed me to address the debt issue. Whats your opinion on such credentials?

Click to expand...

PharmD / MS can certainly give you a few more points when programs are looking at your candidacy for a fellowship or entry level position. Although, dual degrees are becoming more and more common. More importantly, doing internships and rotations in pharma is almost a must. You should work on securing 1+ pharma internship/rotations.

Having an additional advanced scientific degree may not necessarily translate to "higher positions within industry." High positions within industry usually means you are getting further away from the technical stuff and more into the management, strategy, business side of things.

Hi!

I have just started a 4 year pharmD program and live in southern California. I was wondering what your advice is for someone like me who wants to work in clinical research? Are there any job opportunities for pharmacists at all? and what should i do to raise my chances of getting that position? also would doing a pharmD/PhD be any use at all? or is it better to do a fellowship?

Thank you

uhopina said:

Hi!

I have just started a 4 year pharmD program and live in southern California. I was wondering what your advice is for someone like me who wants to work in clinical research? Are there any job opportunities for pharmacists at all? and what should i do to raise my chances of getting that position? also would doing a pharmD/PhD be any use at all? or is it better to do a fellowship?

Thank you

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My recommendation is to network with your faculty to see if there are any opportunities for clinical research projects. Try to secure an internship/rotation in a clinical research related function (ie. with a CRO or within a pharma company). Try to get published as well.

I don't think having a dual PharmD/PhD is necessary to go into clinical research development. I would say having one or the other + a post-doc fellowship in industry or in academia is sufficient.

Hi IndustryPharmD,

I cannot thank you enough for this very helpful thread. I found the information you provided here to be more helpful than the two career books that I have read about pharmaceutical industry. I also highly appreciate the fact that you have been helping other pharmacists/students throughout the past 6 years!

I am quoting one of your earlier comments on page 1 in response to a PhD/BS Pharm (user vman77), as my resume may look similar to his. I imagine many international pharmacists may have similar resumes and questions as well. Please kindly comment generally or to my specific questions below.

Briefly, I graduated with BS Pharm. from China's top pharmacy school in 2002 ->worked one year as a hospital pharmacist in China (at the time, no PharmD or licensing exam is required to practice) -> came to US and got a PhD in Microbiology and Immunology in Texas -> did a postdoc related to colitis/gastrointestinal infection -> worked 2 years as a patent law associate and prosecute bio/pharmaceutical patents (did not obtain J.D. ) -> In 2013, I received a Chinese R.Ph. license/registration and took FPGEE (both of which are licensing requirements for international pharmacy graduates in USA). I am getting my 1500 hours of internship and US pharmacist license in the near future.

The industry departments that I would like to start with are patent application, medical/drug information, medical communication, clinical research (phase II or after), quality assurance, or pharmacovigilance.

The reason why I picked those areas is because I like technical reading/writing and having broad knowledge of clinical pharmacy, pharmaceutical and biomedical sciences. I have experiences in writing grants/manuscripts/protocols and patent application/prosecution, which I consider relevant transferable skills. I prefer not to do wet-bench basic research, but may still do it, if I have to, to get into industry.

I prefer not to travel a lot (for family reasons), so I may not go into sales or MSL. I do not have problem relocating and do not need visa sponsorship (I am a permanent resident).

My dream jobs 5-10 years down the road are in regulatory affairs, competitive intelligence and market research.

My specific questions are:
1) Would you recommend me start working as pharmacist in a small/rural hospital then switch into industry (similar to what you recommended to the other PhD/BS Pharm -- vman77)?

2) Should I skip industry residency/fellowship and directly apply for an industry job (after working a few years as hospital pharmacist), in view of the fact that I graduated 10 years ago without a US PharmD? I know I am at obvious disadvantage if I apply for clinical PGY1 programs, most of which do not consider an international PhD pharmacist like me.

3) You mentioned industry internship. Does any of those programs accept an international PhD pharmacist who has passed NAPLEX/MPJE? Is it a good idea to go to ASHP Midyear Meeting or register for PPS service, if those industry internship programs can be found there?

If you happen to know, can I one of those industry internship to fulfill the 1500 intern hours required for pharmacist license? I have contacted 2 state boards of pharmacy and got one "yes" (Texas) and one "no" (New Jersey).


4) I would gladly PM over my resume for you to comment on/forward, if you like.

Thank you very much.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by vman77

I graudated from the Jersey school more that 13 years ago with a BS degree, went right to doing PhD in Biochemistry (never practice) and now a posdoc in molecular biology (not related to drugs). Now, needed to go back to the pharmacy arena because there is no funding and few jobs available. Would like to work in hospital, but would really like to explore the industry to see if there is a niche for a hardcore scientist that happens to have a pharmacy license (actually need to retake NAPLEX (just passed on Wed) and MPJE).

I'm wondering whether companies really someone like me and if so, how to find jobs that fit my strange qualification. Is it better just to post my resume in some search engines or send it directly to companies human resource departments. I live in CT. I really think that you are the perfect person to help me. Thank you very much.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndustryPharmD:

People are generally hired for their skills, not degrees. What is it what you want to do? No one is going to build a unique position just to fit your skills. If you tell me what department you would like to work in, or what your dream job would be like, I may be better able to advise you.

If you are interested in a hospital, if you have a license, getting a hospital job should be reasonably easy depending on the area. If you are willing to go out of the way, many smaller hospitals who pay less and therefore find it hard to attract and keep pharmacists, may be willing to hire someone without work experience. After a couple years, you could then switch into industry - and depending on the length and quality of hospital experience there are variety of positions you could compete for successfully.

Otherwise, since you have no pharmacist work experience, your degree was BPharm and it has been years ago, you probably would be at a severe disadvantage when trying to pursue a pharmacist track into industry right away. If you want to enter industry right now, a better bet would be to exploit your biochemistry background and get a position in research and development, if that is what you want to do. Connecticut-Massachussetts area is a hot spot for biologics research right now - you should be able to find something.

And again, the more information I have about your background and your goals and aspirations - the better quality advice I would be able to offer.