Do I even stand a chance or is this a pipe dream?

Started by TeacherNoMore
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TeacherNoMore

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Hello to all. I've been browsing the posts in this section and I am both encouraged and worried at the same time.

Here are the stats on where I'm at in my recently realized dream:

1. I am 27, birthday was last week.

2. I completed undergrad in 2002. I have a B.S., in Secondary English Education with a minor in History.

3. Undergrad G.P.A. 3.4


4. Master's in the Art of Teaching M.A.T., 2005

5. Graduate G.P.A. 3.4

I plan on taking my pre-reqs at a community college.

Is this the right thing to do?


I am kind of banking on applying to CSUSD.

I spoke with someone in admissions...he seemed rather, well, rude.

I believe this is my passion.

I know the odds are stacked against me: Older African American English Teacher who went to a small school in Northern Michigan. Everyone I speak to, mother included, has basically laughed in my face but this just makes me more determined to pursue gaining entry into medical school.
I was all set to enter a Ph.D. program this summer '08 but that's not where my passion lies
 
Instead of taking your pre-reqs at community college you could do a postbac program. Some of these programs are basically designed for people like you. They can take 2 years to finish but you will get all of the courses that you need.

http://www.gs.columbia.edu/index_postbacc.htm

this is probably something that I would be interested in if I were you. Hey I guess taking them at CC college could work too- I am sure someone else will chime in soon.

goodluck- youll be fine
 
TeacherNoMore said:
I plan on taking my pre-reqs at a community college. Is this the right thing to do?
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Not if you can help it. Some community colleges are great, but there is a stigma. Some medical schools simply don't accept prereqs taken at CCs. See below for my recommendation.

TeacherNoMore said:
I am kind of banking on applying to CSUSD.
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:laugh: Are you talking about San Diego? It's SDSU, not CSUSD. And they don't have a med school. UCSD has a med school. If that's what you mean, then I hope you're a California resident. Also assume that you need to apply to lots of schools: you can't bank on one.

TeacherNoMore said:
I spoke with someone in admissions...he seemed rather, well, rude.
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That would be because right now we're deep in the heart of interview season, they are deep in a pile of thousands of applications, and the phone is ringing off the hook. Plus if you're going to talk to an admissions office, pick a private school.

TeacherNoMore said:
I know the odds are stacked against me: Older African American English Teacher
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(Sound of screeching brakes, notes OP's stated GPA) Um, you're pretty much in. The odds are stacked in your favor because many med schools aggressively court underrepresented minorities. (Waves huge green flag, plays Stars & Stripes Forever on loudspeaker, stadium does the wave.)

TeacherNoMore said:
Everyone I speak to, mother included, has basically laughed in my face but this just makes me more determined to pursue gaining entry into medical school. I was all set to enter a Ph.D. program this summer '08 but that's not where my passion lies
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You'll be the one laughing. Tell your mom to look at this: http://medicinefromthetrenches.blogspot.com/. One of our moderators here on SDN is a woman who moved from teaching into medicine starting at age 45. I'm 41 and female and expect to start next year. 27 is almost fetal.

My vote is that you should do a structured postbac, full time, starting next fall. I wouldn't hesitate to take on debt if that's the only way to play. I suggest the programs at Scripps and Mills (assuming you're in California), as well as the postbac programs at the UC's (for URMs).

Go for it. Best of luck to you, and keep us posted.
 
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Thank you for your response.

I did mean UCSD. I am a California resident. I've lived here for two years.
The person I spoke with in admissions stated that they do accept community college credit. He said I'd have a better chance of applying in 2009. A master's in Chem, Bio, or Physics isn't the route I want to go. I'm giving myself ten years to complete this. I will try with the CC.

I hope what you say is true about the opportunities for under represented minorities in this field. While I do know I'm under represented, I hope that they'll oblige me.
I've also considered Loma Linda but their tution and fees are a wooping 55 grand per year.


Is it too naive to assume that coaching counts as ECA?
 
TeacherNoMore said:
The person I spoke with in admissions stated that they do accept community college credit. He said I'd have a better chance of applying in 2009. A master's in Chem, Bio, or Physics isn't the route I want to go. I'm giving myself ten years to complete this. I will try with the CC.
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I'm worried about your information source(s). I guarantee you that the guy you talked to on the phone isn't in med school, hasn't applied to med school, and doesn't get to vote on who gets into that med school. Premed advising is mostly crap, and it's complete crap over the phone with a non-adviser. SDN can sometimes give you decent second opinions. But get a good first opinion.

I suggest that you pick up an MSAR (Medical School Admission Requirements) which is published by the AAMC (www.aamc.org). You can find it in some libraries, and you want one that's no more than 2-3 years old. This book explains the process, describes each school, gives a ton of numbers, and on average is trustworthy.

I also suggest that you pick up the Iserson book "Getting Into Medical School: a Guide for the Perplexed." This book has been my primary source for understanding the process. It's a lot like having a physician dad to explain it all.

I'm very, very passionate about good information. I gave up a six figure job, a fiance, a gorgeous old house, a perfectly reasonable engineering career, some friendships and most of my self esteem to go down this road. It was really important to me to not take this leap foolishly.

Again, best of luck to you.
 
TeacherNoMore said:
Thank you for your response.

I did mean UCSD. I am a California resident. I've lived here for two years.
The person I spoke with in admissions stated that they do accept community college credit. He said I'd have a better chance of applying in 2009. A master's in Chem, Bio, or Physics isn't the route I want to go. I'm giving myself ten years to complete this. I will try with the CC.

I hope what you say is true about the opportunities for under represented minorities in this field. While I do know I'm under represented, I hope that they'll oblige me.
I've also considered Loma Linda but their tution and fees are a wooping 55 grand per year.


Is it too naive to assume that coaching counts as ECA?
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With a decent MCAT and your experiences, and the fact that you are a URM, you will certainly be in with a 3.4. Don't worry about it at all. Try to take the pre-reqs at a state school though, just in case. Underrepresented minorities are really aggressively recruited, and you can get away with having a much lower GPA than most. Really, if you do real well on the MCAT (say 32-33+), you may even be able to goto a top ivy type private school (they give great financial aid too).
 
Don't take the prereqs at a CC if you can at all help it. Taking classes at a local state school as a non-matriculated student would be a much better option. Do well in these and get a good MCAT score, and you will have a great chance of getting accepted somewhere.

I don't know much about California medical schools, but they are among the most difficult in the country to gain acceptance. It's nice to have this as a goal, but there is a pretty good chance you will have to go elsewhere for med school. Make sure you think about this in your plans.

BTW - 27 is not old at all to begin this path. Anyone who tells you it is has no idea what they are talking about.
 
DrMidlife said:
I'm worried about your information source(s). I guarantee you that the guy you talked to on the phone isn't in med school, hasn't applied to med school, and doesn't get to vote on who gets into that med school. Premed advising is mostly crap, and it's complete crap over the phone with a non-adviser. SDN can sometimes give you decent second opinions. But get a good first opinion.

I suggest that you pick up an MSAR (Medical School Admission Requirements) which is published by the AAMC (www.aamc.org). You can find it in some libraries, and you want one that's no more than 2-3 years old. This book explains the process, describes each school, gives a ton of numbers, and on average is trustworthy.

I also suggest that you pick up the Iserson book "Getting Into Medical School: a Guide for the Perplexed." This book has been my primary source for understanding the process. It's a lot like having a physician dad to explain it all.

I'm very, very passionate about good information. I gave up a six figure job, a fiance, a gorgeous old house, a perfectly reasonable engineering career, some friendships and most of my self esteem to go down this road. It was really important to me to not take this leap foolishly.

Again, best of luck to you.
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What if the person who answered is the Director of Admissions? At least that's what it said in his email on his title. This is what he sent me.

Hello XXX -

The short answer to your question about the coursework is, yes, we accept pre-requisite courses taken at community college

Please contact me if you would like to discuss this and other concerns you might have.

BXXX XXXXX
Director of Admissions
UCSD School of Medicine
[email protected]
858-53X-XXXX

I contacted him.

Is it a good idea to send him a occasional email noting my progress in this process?


My fiance is in the military and stationed in San Diego for the next four years which are crucial to my success. I must get into this school.


I love challenges.

This website is soooooo wonderful btw. You all are so kind to response to everyone's concerns.

I wish there were a website for education/teachers like this...it would smarten people up before entering the life of a martyr.
 
I believe cali CC's are an another standard than most across the country. How respected they'll be outside of california, on the other hand, may be a different story.

Don't hedge your bets on gaining admission into one specific med school. That's a big mistake, especially for the UC's. All of the california schools are extremely competitive. You need to think about going other places if you don't get into UCSD.

Updates are good, but not until after you've applied, and only if there is significant activity to report.

So far you haven't talked about your extracurriculars. It's very important, especially for non-trads, to have real clinical healthcare experience before applying. Don't underestimate this task, as finding an appropriate volunteering position takes real time and effort. If you can find one early and stick with it for a long time, then that will speak volumes for your dedication to medicine. That is key.

Good luck. You have the foundation for an outstanding application, but you need to tie it all together properly.
 
thoffen said:
I believe cali CC's are an another standard than most across the country. How respected they'll be outside of california, on the other hand, may be a different story.

Don't hedge your bets on gaining admission into one specific med school. That's a big mistake, especially for the UC's. All of the california schools are extremely competitive. You need to think about going other places if you don't get into UCSD.

Updates are good, but not until after you've applied, and only if there is significant activity to report.

So far you haven't talked about your extracurriculars. It's very important, especially for non-trads, to have real clinical healthcare experience before applying. Don't underestimate this task, as finding an appropriate volunteering position takes real time and effort. If you can find one early and stick with it for a long time, then that will speak volumes for your dedication to medicine. That is key.

Good luck. You have the foundation for an outstanding application, but you need to tie it all together properly.
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He is an African American male, full time teacher, with a respectable GPA. If he does well on the MCATs, and just hangs around the ER for a couple weeks - he'll get in.

TeacherNoMore, GO FOR IT. Seriously, you will be able to get into a lot of places, with a decent MCAT. It most certainly is not a pipe dream, and in fact, you have a much better chance than a LOT of people posting here, including myself.

Don't doubt yourself, you have everything going for you. Do well on your pre-requisite courses (try for all As), do well on your MCAT (27+), and volunteer for a while somewhere....then watch your acceptances roll in. Good luck!

TeacherNoMore said:
I hope what you say is true about the opportunities for under represented minorities in this field. While I do know I'm under represented, I hope that they'll oblige me.
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No need to hope, it's absolutely true. You're pretty much in already, you just need to finish all the paperwork. You have pretty much everything going in your favor in medical school process. Just do your best and don't screw up.
 
TeacherNoMore said:
1. I am 27, birthday was last week.

3. Undergrad G.P.A. 3.4

I plan on taking my pre-reqs at a community college.
Is this the right thing to do?


I am kind of banking on applying to CSUSD.

I know the odds are stacked against me: Older African American English Teacher who went to a small school in Northern Michigan.
Click to expand...

27 is not too old. Your GPA is fine for many schools. Take the pre-reqs at a regular college - CC's have a stigma, fair or not. Don't count on getting into only one school, but interact with their admissions dept to find out how you can best align your application w/ their preferences. The odds are in your favor, for reasons described by other posters.

Take your pre-reqs, get A's, then take the MCAT, and get above a 30.
 
Am currently a high school science/math teacher. Have mcat of 23 gpa of 3.1 both sci and overall. I have applied to DO school "only one" and have interview.

I counted all hours of coaching High School Baseball, Basketball, Tennis, Track, and Academic Team as ec's. Yes I have coached alot of sports that is how it works in a small school.

I have taken pre-req's at CC it hasn't hurt me yet, still I nailed the classes so far, and from my experience they are as difficult as those taken at my ug state school.

Just hang in there ace your pre-req's, and do well on the mcat

I am 31 also so you are ok
 
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Another plea here for you to apply broadly. I know you want to be in SD - your fiance's stationed there - but that's just so risky. What about the LA schools, at least?

The med school admissions process can be such a crapshoot, just based on the sheer number of applicants for each spot.
 
Blade28 said:
Another plea here for you to apply broadly. I know you want to be in SD - your fiance's stationed there - but that's just so risky. What about the LA schools, at least?

The med school admissions process can be such a crapshoot, just based on the sheer number of applicants for each spot.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but allow me to be politically incorrect and say that if she plays the race card (with decent GPA & MCAT) she might just get away with UCSD love. I suspect this is why the admissions director she talked to was so encouraging.

But in general it's a disastrous, naive plan to go to a CC and apply to only one extremely competitive and prestigious research-oriented UC. It turns my stomach. Great, so you get in, then what? You're unprepared academically, your classmates crush you, and you flunk out with $100k debt while your relationship falls apart from the stress.

This thread makes me grumpy.
 
DRMidlife: CC in california are pretty good, and she did graduate with a 3.4. I don't think she would be blown away so hard she would flunk out.

Anyway, applying to one school is just a plain bad idea. Even if you are black, and even if your GPA is above average for black matriculants, then it is still mediocre to poor chances at getting into one particular UC. If youre going to do this, then do it. Ensure you will be accepted by applying broadly, dont fiddle around and apply to only one school.
 
DrMidlife said:
Yeah, but allow me to be politically incorrect and say that if she plays the race card (with decent GPA & MCAT) she might just get away with UCSD love. I suspect this is why the admissions director she talked to was so encouraging.

But in general it's a disastrous, naive plan to go to a CC and apply to only one extremely competitive and prestigious research-oriented UC. It turns my stomach. Great, so you get in, then what?
Click to expand...

I agree. This makes me sad as we're talking about my alma mater here.

And don't get me started on AA. 😡
 
DrMidlife said:
Yeah, but allow me to be politically incorrect and say that if she plays the race card (with decent GPA & MCAT) she might just get away with UCSD love. I suspect this is why the admissions director she talked to was so encouraging.

But in general it's a disastrous, naive plan to go to a CC and apply to only one extremely competitive and prestigious research-oriented UC. It turns my stomach. Great, so you get in, then what? You're unprepared academically, your classmates crush you, and you flunk out with $100k debt while your relationship falls apart from the stress.

This thread makes me grumpy.
Click to expand...


Should we start calling you Dr. Midlife Crisis?

On the contrary, the admissions director I spoke with, once on the phone, was rather rude and the mere mention of race, assuming he could not tell from my speaking voice, kind of made him cut me off. Any state school who accepts funding from the government has to have a certain number of non white male students in their program to continue funding. That's a fact of life. So the fact that I'm black...that means nothing because as we all know there are plenty of "others" who could be granted a spot easily over mine.

This is just a presumption but aren't medical school classes biology and anatomy based? Why would the other students "crush" me? I'm sure I wouldn't be the first person entering their program via a career change. While it may be naive to apply and bank on one school, let me assure you that no "race" card will promise my entrance. Also, failure is not an option. My days of implusivity are long gone. This is a thought out decision. "Crush me?" Please...
This isn't about them, the competition comes within. As I understand it, most classes are rank based or pass or fail. This isn't some fly by night dream. I've appreciated your prior responses and found them helpful until this one, but in the words of my students...you're a hater.

I've pretty much quickly come to the realization...I'll go where they'll accept me.
 
TeacherNoMore said:
Should we start calling you Dr. Midlife Crisis?

On the contrary, the admissions director I spoke with, once on the phone, was rather rude and the mere mention of race, assuming he could not tell from my speaking voice, kind of made him cut me off. Any state school who accepts funding from the government has to have a certain number of non white male students in their program to continue funding. That's a fact of life. So the fact that I'm black...that means nothing because as we all know there are plenty of "others" who could be granted a spot easily over mine.
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No, thats just patently untrue, as you will find out soon enough. Being an underrepresented minority will be a huge advantage to you. I would bet you that you will get into schools where the average GPA is several standard deviations above yours. Trust me, aim high - you will get into many places that most people wouldn't with your stats. DrMidLife did not come across the right way - but if I were in your position, I'd be extremely excited about your chances of going into medical school. In the end, the only thing that matters is that you are a doctor - not how you got in. No one will be helping you pass the boards or succeed in the classes.

I am a 26 year old man with the same stats as you, and you know where I'll be going? Most likely the Caribbean - not a single school will probably even touch me (unless I absolutely ace the MCAT with a 37+, or get lucky with one of the new schools opening). But they will definitely take you. The schools around here are aggressively recruiting black and hispanic students, and are willing to look past a lot of things to accept them. Take advantage of this and make sure you file your AMCAS application as a URM.


TeacherNoMore said:
let me assure you that no "race" card will promise my entrance.
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Yes it will. Unless you are stupid enough not to mention that you are a URM. As for crushing you - I wouldn't worry about it. A lot of people go to medical school via a career change, and the med school GPA was around a 3.4-3.5 a decade ago, so people were successful then, and you will be now. If you're prepared to work hard, you will be fine.
 
I understand that the URM card will help get attention, however I think you guys are being a bit childish in bashing another student for asking if they have a chance and giving information for us to judge them on. Realistically none of us can tell since there are prereq's that still need to be filled, and mcat. URM or not without prereq's and decent mcat score schools will not look past and grant admissions due to ethnicity.

Teach no more don't worry this is a chest thumping thing from others on this site the only thing you have to worry about is making yourself more competitive than others pre-req's, mcat, and ec's. Now bash away, but I will not change my opinion.
 
Teachernomore,

I think you have a lot going for you. Teaching is a demanding field that commands the respect of most. You deal with lots of humans...little humans but that could be even an asset in patience and leadership associated skills.

I will vouch for the respectable education you can get a California's community colleges which are the relics of a bygone era when California promised a free college education to all its citizens. But as you know California has and will always have a talent pool excess and so this keeps the quality of science education there high because many people still are just talented people who want to teach and not play the big league science game. I digress.

What I've realized in comparing notes with other people is that this is not the case in most places, as you are probably aware. So that some people are culturally biased against blue collar educations. Some perhaps with good reason, most I would argue have not.

Since you understand applying widely is probably a safer bet--who knows you could end up exactly where you want anyway--then in my opinion this hustle is often about dodging the prejudices of others be they racial, class, institutional bias, or whathaveyou. As such I would opt for a 4 year school if that does not cause you any major inconvenience.

Best of luck.

One extra thought with the intent of encapsulating my years long habitation of this peanut gallery towards your making sense of the polarized advice you will receive.

People look for themselves in others. Individuals responsible for the selection of others in their profession might even be more inclined to do so since they make it a point to go out of their way to position themselves on a committee.

For instance, I would look at your story and think...wow a teacher, she'd paid her dues to bringing about a brighter future for our youth. She serves other in a noble profession...hmm?...and read forward with interest. But when I see a pharm rep or an ex corporate lawyer I would think with some skepticism about their motivations as people.

I doubt that I am some freak of nature in how I process things. I would think I am altogether common in this regard. So in the end your application is your own personal expression. I believe the common wisdom is just that. It seems to suggest that one should carefully check all sorts of boxes and carefully construct some ideal of what the premed culture thinks is authentic.

You my good lady are already authentic and require not the blithering that goes on here, except to take note of any obvious things to avoid, like the prejudice against community colleges etc.
 
Dear TeacherNoMore:

I have read this thread with interest. I think that it might have gotten accidentally contentious, which I don't believe was meant to be a personal attack. Instead, I feel it is more at the core of non-trads trying to make sense of a seemingly non-sensical process. Basically, I think the major power of a non-traditional application is the ability to craft a good life story (which you term your "passion") Reading between the lines (and hence the multiple quotes) I find I am having trouble imagining a coherent story. I will add my comments, but please just accept them in the manner they were offered-trying to make sense of a story. In short, I believe you can succeed if you are able to answer questions like mine at interviews-so hopefully this is good preparation!


TeacherNoMore said:
Hello to all. I've been browsing the posts in this section and I am both encouraged and worried at the same time.

Here are the stats on where I'm at in my recently realized dream:

1. I am 27, birthday was last week.
Click to expand...

Congratulations! Remember to celebrate-in med school you may forget to take "me time"

TeacherNoMore said:
2. I completed undergrad in 2002. I have a B.S., in Secondary English Education with a minor in History.

3. Undergrad G.P.A. 3.4
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At this stage, try to calculate a BCPM GPA-that is a GPA based solely on biology, chemistry, physics, and math classes. If you have NO BCPM GPA, then you really should consider a more significant investment in going back to school over the CC (which would offer only the pre-requisite Chem 101, Phys 101, Bio 101, organic chemistry, and a intro level math) I would think that a couple of years at a 4 year university-taking a selection of the pre-req classes (again having the BCPM prefixes) and some upper level BCPM courses that interest you (not necessarily the "anatomy/physiology" types) may be quite helpful in proving your mettle for a scientific M.D. application.

TeacherNoMore said:
4. Master's in the Art of Teaching M.A.T., 2005

5. Graduate G.P.A. 3.4
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I am afraid that this masters may not be of much help, and the GPA would probably not affect your application (for good or ill)


TeacherNoMore said:
I am kind of banking on applying to CSUSD.
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Unfortunately, California is a like a country into itself (something like the 8th largest economy worldwide) and thus the traditional logic about in-state resident applications might not apply as well. California could have thousands of in-state applicants across the spectrum in any given year. You mentioned your determination to go "wherever you get in." I would attempt to apply to several out-of-state schools as well. Think of it this way-you should be used to being stuck in traffic on the PCH or I-5 for hours anyway-so why not use the time to commute in from Vegas or Arizona.

TeacherNoMore said:
I know the odds are stacked against me: Older African American English Teacher who went to a small school in Northern Michigan.
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I think that the ADCOMs would like teachers just fine-they have many of the empathy and dedication qualities that are needed for clinicians.

TeacherNoMore said:
I was all set to enter a Ph.D. program this summer '08 but that's not where my passion lies
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This was actually quite intriguing to me. What type of Ph.D.? Even an Art Ph.D. is a reflection of an academic mindset, requiring multi-year dedication. Would you ever consider going the MD-Ph.D. route (or something similar MD-Masters public health for example) I think you might find that there is a completely different mindset for applying into a program that seeks to be driven more towards education or research than pure clinicians. You might want to research multidisciplinary MD programs and their philosophy as compared to your goals for your life.

And never give up-that is probably the only consistent thing that can be said for this process-it requires quite a bit of faith!

Good luck
 
TeacherNoMore said:
Should we start calling you Dr. Midlife Crisis?

On the contrary, the admissions director I spoke with, once on the phone, was rather rude and the mere mention of race, assuming he could not tell from my speaking voice, kind of made him cut me off. Any state school who accepts funding from the government has to have a certain number of non white male students in their program to continue funding. That's a fact of life. So the fact that I'm black...that means nothing because as we all know there are plenty of "others" who could be granted a spot easily over mine.

This is just a presumption but aren't medical school classes biology and anatomy based? Why would the other students "crush" me? I'm sure I wouldn't be the first person entering their program via a career change. While it may be naive to apply and bank on one school, let me assure you that no "race" card will promise my entrance. Also, failure is not an option. My days of implusivity are long gone. This is a thought out decision. "Crush me?" Please...
This isn't about them, the competition comes within. As I understand it, most classes are rank based or pass or fail. This isn't some fly by night dream. I've appreciated your prior responses and found them helpful until this one, but in the words of my students...you're a hater.

I've pretty much quickly come to the realization...I'll go where they'll accept me.
Click to expand...

AND THE WARDEN HAS SPOKEN!!!!!! Amen on that

PMG- Fellow AA premed here LOL
 
Perrotfish said:
The average white matriculant has a 31 on his MCAT and a 3.7

The average black matriculant has a 25 on his MCAT and a 3.4.

So, yes, you have an advantage due to your race. If you don't want it you're free not to indicate your race on your admissions forms. Otherwise you'll just have to suck it up and get used to being a doctor.
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So sayeth the young Southerner who hails from the crescent city in the crisp matter of factness, afforded by position, to conclude the realities of our world for the rest of us.

This individual's race will not get them into medical school, but on behalf of all of us here for your circumspection we offer our most humble apologies for any inconvenience these racial statistics may have caused you in your path to being a physician in a city that must be, at least pre-Katrina, 90% black.

Not that Tulane's grand old private self is too bothered by the notion of representation.
 
The URM card will be worthless for UCSD because it does not practice affirmative action. By state law it cannot. There are no quotas. If you have overcome adversity, that will certainly be taken into account.

If you want to maximize your chances at UCSD (a very competitive school -- acceptance rate around 6%), I suggest you take Brian up on his offer of discussing your situation further.

Many strong applicants are unable to gain acceptance to medical school in their city (or even state or side of the country) of choice -- if you are serious about becoming a physician you must apply broadly. In Southern California, there are several -- UCLA, USC, UC Irvine, Loma Linda, Western (a D.O. school). Even if you apply to all of these, there are no guarantees.
 
TeacherNoMore said:
Should we start calling you Dr. Midlife Crisis?
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What a great idea! 41, changing careers, and I swear I never thought of this when I picked my screen name. You kids are so clever.

Of course going to med school at 41 is a f***ing midlife crisis. (I could just get a Saab and a 19-year-old lifeguard boytoy, but that's been done to death.)

Let me try this again:

But in general it's a disastrous, naive plan (for anybody of any race) to go to a CC and apply to only one extremely competitive and prestigious research-oriented UC (average MCAT 35, average GPA 3.82) It turns my stomach (that anybody would plan on this). Great, so you get in, then what? (Every med school aspirant should ask themselves this question.) You're unprepared academically (because you took all your math and science at a CC), your classmates crush you (because they've been going to math camp since birth and published in Science at age 17), and you flunk out with $100k debt while your relationship falls apart from the stress (assuming [and yeah, this is where I'm truly, deeply cynical] you're academically unprepared, and that you haven't been honest with yourself or your SO about the time commitment of med school and/or residency).

Who'd I piss off this time?
 
DrMidlife said:
What a great idea! 41, changing careers, and I swear I never thought of this when I picked my screen name. You kids are so clever.

Of course going to med school at 41 is a f***ing midlife crisis. (I could just get a Saab and a 19-year-old lifeguard boytoy, but that's been done to death.)

Let me try this again:

Who'd I piss off this time?
Click to expand...


It's alright girl. Everybody's under a lot of stress. We just have to make sure that this process doesn't degrade our sentient faculties. The one's that incline us toward the brotherhood of man. Not that you don't exercise those faculties with even-headed humor, because you do.

But just as a confessional. A some point in the last year I had entered into a valley of negative perceptions. I had succumb to the worst influences of competition and rivalry. And I heard myself saying things of the nature that have been presented here. A casual negligent manifestation under these influences to oneself can be a fundamentally insensitive insult to someone else.

Never again, inshallah, will I sell my own soul for such a paltry sum as the spoils of competitive premededness--of which the cold statement that someone else's accomplishments is due to race, is just one.

I hope you get in this year and get your boytoy to boot.
 
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I find it funny that some are actually showing signs of hostility over the URM(which I never know of prior to your mentioning it). Wow, one assumed advantage (if true) provided to "others" and some are ready to send the town mob.


Maybe this whole process is naive. Maybe I'll never get in but I'm going to try. I've been drifting for two years now out of graduate school, pressured by my family to "do more." Being "simply a teacher" isn't favorable dinnertime conversations at family gatherings. One of my younger sisters, who went to prep school, helped to build a friggin' missionary in Haiti that she designed herself.

I did some soul searching and looking back, and in doing so, I've always had a passion for medicine:My 5th grade science fair project on Stimulus response with white mice, my 8th grade History class mock trial where I was a defense lawyer for someone in class who allegedly "embezzled" funds from a company, my defense: PTS from the Gulf War, NO LIE, LOL!
It has been suggested by some friends that I should "just do an RN program." Well no...that isn't for me. Maybe that will be plan C, but for now, this is what I'm pursuing. I think ten years is a realistic outlook for change.

Its sad to me the race issue has reared its ugly head on this board when my mentioning it was provided as a fact, not some attempt for responses stating that I'd have a better chance to get in school or lack there of.

Yeah, I guess we are all jumping the gun since, myself included, since I haven't gone beyond joining this board in the pursuit of my goal here but I'm utilizing it for information, insight and I guess the reality of how my situation will be viewed by the world at large. I went to Catholic school until 7th grade(parent's divorce), then was educated by Detroit Public Schools. I went to a small university in Northern Michigan and went to grad school at a private, Catholic college. Maybe I don't stand a chance in hell with the other kids who have been groomed for this, but I owe it to myself to try.


I had two black doctors in my short lifetime, but hell, I'm from Detroit. Detroit is like one of the blackest places on earth...LOL!



I think its a little sad that black is synonymous with: poor, uneducated, etc...
Maybe I am all of those things and just don't realize it.
Or maybe I need to paint my face dark with shoe polish and dress as buckwheat if I'm even granted an interview..."I's gone be a DOCCCCCCC-TAH!"

I admire all of you for pursuing or for being what I too want to be, we all have our different stories. I'm just trying to jump the next hurdle like anyone else. I love that people have actually taken time to give a crap enough to respond, that's awesome.
 
TeacherNoMore said:
I find it funny that some are actually showing signs of hostility over the URM(which I never know of prior to your mentioning it). Wow, one assumed advantage (if true) provided to "others" and some are ready to send the town mob.
Click to expand...

I think DrMidlife came across the wrong way. I was simply encouraging you to not minimize that aspect when you're submitting your application. You and I have similar stats, but you are almost a guaranteed acceptance, so I would advise you to not throw that away.

TeacherNoMore said:
Maybe this whole process is naive. Maybe I'll never get in but I'm going to try.
Click to expand...

If I have to keep repeating myself, I will: You're in already. With your GPA and your URM status, schools will accept you. Just don't mess up on your pre-reqs and you're in.

TeacherNoMore said:
Its sad to me the race issue has reared its ugly head on this board when my mentioning it was provided as a fact, not some attempt for responses stating that I'd have a better chance to get in school or lack there of.
Click to expand...

Well, people (especially on the pre-allopathic board) get bitter when you talk about the stats that URM's get in with. I'm not one of them, because regardless of whether you get in or not, I am not going to get in 🙂. But that doesn't mean you should also put yourself in the same boat as me by not mentioning your status.

TeacherNoMore said:
I think its a little sad that black is synonymous with: poor, uneducated, etc...
Maybe I am all of those things and just don't realize it.
Or maybe I need to paint my face dark with shoe polish and dress as buckwheat if I'm even granted an interview..."I's gone be a DOCCCCCCC-TAH!".
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is saying this.
 
TeacherNoMore said:
Its sad to me the race issue has reared its ugly head on this board when my mentioning it was provided as a fact, not some attempt for responses stating that I'd have a better chance to get in school or lack there of.
Click to expand...
On a positive note, the instigative replies made you aware of the URM program (which I've never heard of either)! It's rare in life to be given a competitive advantage. If you qualify for this, you should utilize it or someone else will!

TeacherNoMore said:
Yeah, I guess we are all jumping the gun, myself included, since I haven't gone beyond joining this board in the pursuit of my goal here but I'm utilizing it for information, insight.......
Click to expand...
This is how many of us started, including myself. Let us know if you need more info. I think the next step is to start taking your prereqs (bio,chem, o-chem, phys) at a 4 year college/univ. and try to get mostly A's. There may be online classes or accelerated summer classes that can help you knock out the pre-reqs at a faster pace if that's what you desire. GL!
 
Playmakur42 said:
On a positive note, the instigative replies made you aware of the URM program (which I've never heard of either)! It's rare in life to be given a competitive advantage. If you qualify for this, you should utilize it or someone else will!
Click to expand...

EXACTLY. I am not sure about the others, but I was just encouraging her to use a very important advantage. Being black means you have many disadvantages and not many advantages in society, but med school application is one of the places where you do have an edge, and you would be crazy not to use it.
 
Come on Non-trads...this is getting ridiculous.

The URM status is just one line on the application. It is just another number in an equation on the numbers game of applications.

Consider this... another series of lines on the application is the legacy status. Did your family go to school here, pass that gate, then did your family go to MED school here? It is probably unwritten, but did the family member contribute to the general fund of the schools after their career? The legacy debate is probably even more capricious than URM, but is not a guarantee either. I am guilty of trying to rely on legacy stats when applying to undergrad, much to my dismay when I didn't get in. Even worse was my knee-jerk, gut reaction very similar to the arguments here. I was wrong to think that way, and it is wrong to perpetuate this viewpoint here.

Which is another reason why I tried to develop my own identity-which is now only apparent as a non-trad applicant with some life story. Use that story, which encompasses all the lines in the application.

We should all be old enough to remember a 60-Minutes story about the weights used in U. Michigan applications. The bottom line was URM was an advantage in the game, not a guarantee.

Carefully consider that Jeebus was correct in that Cal. system has no quotas (which I think may be correct-I seem to recall that Cal residents were not particularly weighted. In point of fact, I would hazard a guess that Cal applicants/matriculants are perhaps the 2nd greatest population at ALL schools across the country) If the URM line is absent, it is vitally important to give TeacherNoMore some realistic advice and not blow smoke.

Sorry for the rant. Again, just my $0.02 worth. I think that her application better make sense-if bad MCAT, bad/no BCPM, bad recommendations, bad interview, etc. etc. etc. then she won't get in. Best to prepare now and be realistic about this process.

Once again, good luck TeacherNoMore-you can do this and never give up.
 
TeacherNoMore said:
I find it funny that some are actually showing signs of hostility over the URM(which I never know of prior to your mentioning it). Wow, one assumed advantage (if true) provided to "others" and some are ready to send the town mob.
Click to expand...

I just went back and reread this thread, because I didn't remember "pitchforks and torches" type messages. On my second readthrough, I do see one post directly implying negativity toward affirmative action, surrounded by lots of posts offering encouragement and positive suggestions. Maybe I'm just not seeing hostility that is there, but I don't think so.

And speaking of positive suggestions, I'll echo what DrMidlife says in post #6: get the MSAR, and go to the library/bookstore for a book or two to guide you through the entire application process.

TeacherNoMore said:
I know the odds are stacked against me: Older African American English Teacher who went to a small school in Northern Michigan. Everyone I speak to, mother included, has basically laughed in my face but this just makes me more determined to pursue gaining entry into medical school.
Click to expand...

This is clearly the paragraph that everyone was responding to regarding race, and I really do think people are just trying to reassure you that what you preceive as "odds stacked against you" aren't things that should worry you. I'll add my [repetitive at this point] comments:

Older - 27 is old enough to have good life experience, and nowhere near old enough to be a concern. (I'm 34, and age hasn't hurt me in any of my interviews.)

African American - Done to death here, but add me to the crowd that thinks this will make you more attractive to admissions committees rather than being a hinderance.

English - Shouldn't be a problem, as long as you do well in your prereqs and MCAT to show that you can handle the science. They value diversity in experiences as well as in ethnic/social/economic/geographic background, and the fact that you're not just one more 21-year-old biochem major who wanted to be a doctor since you were 8 helps your application.

Teacher - As Beast11 says, you've demonstrated empathy and dedication. I'll add to this that teaching suggests communication, time management, and oganizational skills; independance and autonomy; maturity; etc. Teachers have tons of qualities that med schools look for in their students. Also, residents are expected to educate students/interns under them, clinicians need to educate their patients, and of course if you decide to pursue academic medicine you could actually be a teacher again. I'd guess that your teaching experince will be a huge plus.


Sorry you've had to deal with the "laugh in your face" response from people you've spoken with. Take this thread as the opposite - I think everyone here is genuinely offering encouragement and support.

Getting into med school takes a ton of hard work. You still need to do all that work to put together the complete application, but it sounds like you've got a lot going for you. I think you're at the starting point of a really compelling application. Good luck!
 
HanginInThere said:
I just went back and reread this thread, because I didn't remember "pitchforks and torches" type messages. On my second readthrough, I do see one post directly implying negativity toward affirmative action, surrounded by lots of posts offering encouragement and positive suggestions. Maybe I'm just not seeing hostility that is there, but I don't think so.

And speaking of positive suggestions, I'll echo what DrMidlife says in post #6: get the MSAR, and go to the library/bookstore for a book or two to guide you through the entire application process.



This is clearly the paragraph that everyone was responding to regarding race, and I really do think people are just trying to reassure you that what you preceive as "odds stacked against you" aren't things that should worry you. I'll add my [repetitive at this point] comments:

Older - 27 is old enough to have good life experience, and nowhere near old enough to be a concern. (I'm 34, and age hasn't hurt me in any of my interviews.)

African American - Done to death here, but add me to the crowd that thinks this will make you more attractive to admissions committees rather than being a hinderance.

English - Shouldn't be a problem, as long as you do well in your prereqs and MCAT to show that you can handle the science. They value diversity in experiences as well as in ethnic/social/economic/geographic background, and the fact that you're not just one more 21-year-old biochem major who wanted to be a doctor since you were 8 helps your application.

Teacher - As Beast11 says, you've demonstrated empathy and dedication. I'll add to this that teaching suggests communication, time management, and oganizational skills; independance and autonomy; maturity; etc. Teachers have tons of qualities that med schools look for in their students. Also, residents are expected to educate students/interns under them, clinicians need to educate their patients, and of course if you decide to pursue academic medicine you could actually be a teacher again. I'd guess that your teaching experince will be a huge plus.


Sorry you've had to deal with the "laugh in your face" response from people you've spoken with. Take this thread as the opposite - I think everyone here is genuinely offering encouragement and support.

Getting into med school takes a ton of hard work. You still need to do all that work to put together the complete application, but it sounds like you've got a lot going for you. I think you're at the starting point of a really compelling application. Good luck!
Click to expand...




I apologize to all if I offended your good intentions. Mentioning of race with aptitude gets my ears red...and yes, they do get red, LOL!

Let's move on.

I'm grateful for all of the helpful information.
 
TeacherNoMore said:
Hello to all. I've been browsing the posts in this section and I am both encouraged and worried at the same time.

Here are the stats on where I'm at in my recently realized dream:

1. I am 27, birthday was last week.

2. I completed undergrad in 2002. I have a B.S., in Secondary English Education with a minor in History.

3. Undergrad G.P.A. 3.4


4. Master's in the Art of Teaching M.A.T., 2005

5. Graduate G.P.A. 3.4

I plan on taking my pre-reqs at a community college.

Is this the right thing to do?


I am kind of banking on applying to CSUSD.

I spoke with someone in admissions...he seemed rather, well, rude.

I believe this is my passion.

I know the odds are stacked against me: Older African American English Teacher who went to a small school in Northern Michigan. Everyone I speak to, mother included, has basically laughed in my face but this just makes me more determined to pursue gaining entry into medical school.
I was all set to enter a Ph.D. program this summer '08 but that's not where my passion lies
Click to expand...

I was around your age when I started taking the pre-reqs and I had the same plan you did as far as taking the CC classes. Luckily, people with more knowledge about these things knocked some sense into me and I ended up taking a post-bacc program after a year of CC classes.

Look, here's the thing: most schools will accept CC classes but your chances of getting in haiving taken ALL of your pre-reqs at a CC are not good. I'd suggest talking to the Director of Admissions at UCSD specifically about this since you seem a little reluctant to believe it.

You seem very dedicated and I think that you can do it. So why shoot yourself in the foot before you even start? You don't have to enroll in a formal post-bacc program, but you should look into taking classes at UCSD Extension or SDSU.

I think a lot of the reactions you've been getting on this forum come from people who see that you have the potential to get in (med schools love teachers, btw) but are about to make a serious mistake from the start. If you want to give this your best shot, taking all of your pre-reqs at a CC is not the way to go. I hope you reconsider because we need more old guys in med school. The average age at my school dropped by one this year despite my best efforts to raise it.
 
Some anecdotal evidence to strengthen "gotmeds" point:

The only issue I was challenged on in all of my medical school interviews was the 2 classes (organic chemistry & micro) that I took at a C.C. I felt the quality of teaching was equal to the 4 yr college I previously attended (maybe even better because the classes were smaller and the lab teachers spoke English!) but I still had to "defend" my decision to attend there, which is evidence that the interviewer believed C.C.'s may be inferior to 4 yr universities. Please talk to the admissions dept. of your top choice school and find out how they feel about C.C.'s.
 
Thought of another constructive comment to offset my cynicism:

There's one chunk of the MCAT that the OP can take now in a practice test: the verbal section. You can do this on www.e-mcat.com, and the first one is free.

I strongly recommend this to any non-trad who hasn't made it through the prereqs yet. Yes, I mean do it now. Your prereqs aren't going to do a thing for you on verbal reasoning - what you score now is likely to be what you'll score on the real thing in a year or two, barring prep coursework. By taking a practice VR, you get real data to work with.

And I'll argue that the VR score is a strong predictor of the science scores. If you can't get a 10+ on a practice VR, I claim that you're not going to get a 30+ on the real thing. The science sections employ heavy, heavy critical reasoning, sprinkled with bits of science. In my experience (I got a 31) 75% of my MCAT score was critical reasoning, and 25% was stuff I learned in prereqs.

Hope this is helpful.
 
DrMidlife said:
Thought of another constructive comment to offset my cynicism:

There's one chunk of the MCAT that the OP can take now in a practice test: the verbal section. You can do this on www.e-mcat.com, and the first one is free.

I strongly recommend this to any non-trad who hasn't made it through the prereqs yet. Yes, I mean do it now. Your prereqs aren't going to do a thing for you on verbal reasoning - what you score now is likely to be what you'll score on the real thing in a year or two, barring prep coursework. By taking a practice VR, you get real data to work with.

And I'll argue that the VR score is a strong predictor of the science scores. If you can't get a 10+ on a practice VR, I claim that you're not going to get a 30+ on the real thing. The science sections employ heavy, heavy critical reasoning, sprinkled with bits of science. In my experience (I got a 31) 75% of my MCAT score was critical reasoning, and 25% was stuff I learned in prereqs.

Hope this is helpful.
Click to expand...

Man, I really really really hope you're right. I took it cold, and I average between 13-15 on the VR sections, and I haven't had the pre-reqs yet.
 
gotmeds? said:
I was around your age when I started taking the pre-reqs and I had the same plan you did as far as taking the CC classes. Luckily, people with more knowledge about these things knocked some sense into me and I ended up taking a post-bacc program after a year of CC classes.

Look, here's the thing: most schools will accept CC classes but your chances of getting in haiving taken ALL of your pre-reqs at a CC are not good. I'd suggest talking to the Director of Admissions at UCSD specifically about this since you seem a little reluctant to believe it.

You seem very dedicated and I think that you can do it. So why shoot yourself in the foot before you even start? You don't have to enroll in a formal post-bacc program, but you should look into taking classes at UCSD Extension or SDSU.

I think a lot of the reactions you've been getting on this forum come from people who see that you have the potential to get in (med schools love teachers, btw) but are about to make a serious mistake from the start. If you want to give this your best shot, taking all of your pre-reqs at a CC is not the way to go. I hope you reconsider because we need more old guys in med school. The average age at my school dropped by one this year despite my best efforts to raise it.
Click to expand...

I feel that the information that has been provided to me is most helpful. I think my stubbornness with the whole community college thing (especially since I taught low level English at one) is biased. I want this so I will pay the extra money (which is essentially all you're doing in most cases) and go to a "traditional" university/college to take the friggin' pre-reqs. Other than that, all other advice has been duly noted and well received. What would I look like to put myself on this board only to reject the good intentions of others? I'm listening...full potential here man.
BTW, I guess I'll move my ten year plan to twelve...*sigh*
No frustration however, the key to life is (that I found out at the age of 27 after much trial and error), you pick something you want to do and do it.
 
One thing about teaching is you have summers off! what better advantage to taking a load of pre-req's during the summers. This past summer I took ten hours. As educator I felt this was easy money taking both chem1 and chem2 during the same semester. After teaching and grading papers daily, thinking up tests, making pp slides to reinforce lecture just taking classes was easy! After all you only need around 25 or 30 hours which you don't have to take anything other than what you need. Assuming ten hours per summer you'll be done in three years and ready to apply. Throw in a couple of classes during the school year and you can halve that. GL with your new path I'm on the same one and loving it.
 
To the OP.. it CAN be done, even at CC. I did it, and (not that it should matter) but I am not a URM.

I did apply to 30 schools though when I applied, and the CC thing did hurt me quite a bit. I only got a handful of interview invites even though my numbers were decent.

Good luck!
 
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I was in a similar position to you. I applied at 26 after five years of teaching high school math (MAT degree too!). They seemed more intrigued by the fact that I taught in the inner city (Baltimore City public schools) than my actual status as a teacher.

Like you I went back after my masters to take 7 out of the 8 pre-reqs (I only had Bio I in college). I had a slight advantage with a math background (calculus-based physics was a breeze) but I did 6 out of the 7 classes at a community college. While we do get summers off as teachers, the school year seems to end a good two weeks after the start of most college summer sessions around here.

While the fact that I took them at CC came up, I simply explained that I was working full-time to support myself and was limited financially, geographically and time-wise (meaning evening classes only) and community college was literally the only option. I couldn't find a four-year school within an hour's drive that offered the basic sciences in the evening, believe it or not. As a non-trad, I think you can get away with this a little more than a regular student. They look down on CCs in the sense that they don't want to see kids taking all the hard pre-reqs while home on summer break from their regular universities because a.) it looks like you're avoiding taking it at a "real" school and b.) its easier to do well when that is the only class you are taking at one time.

I really think that my solid explanation, coupled with a 4.0 in all the pre-reqs (I only had a 2.8 when I graduated with my B.S. in mathematics but brought it all the way up to 3.28 with all the post-bac work) and a high MCAT in all sections definitely helped. I rock at standardized tests. So I would say that you can be successful no matter where you take your coursework if you're really on your game. Incidentally, my mother did the same almost two decades ago when she changed careers from nursing to medicine (took all the basic sciences at the same community college where she earned her nursing degree way back) and was successful in applying on her first try (she went to PCOM- the osteopathic schools seem to have even more love for older and career-changing students).

Just my two cents if you're interested. And to answer your question- this is far from an impossible dream!
 
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