Abstract, Poster Presentation, Oral Presentation

I wouldn't list the same thing twice. You can fill it that it was presented twice (presented at meeting x and meeting y) if there is room. Poster presentations and oral abstract presentations are generally all considered as "abstracts."

yaah said:

Poster presentations and oral abstract presentations are generally all considered as "abstracts."

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I would disagree with this. There is a section on ERAS for poster presentations and a separate one for Oral presentations and again a separate one for abstracts.

As mentioned above, I think you don't get to list the abstract if it has already been accepted as a publication, poster or presentation. You go with the highest level the submission got to.

OK, they have changed it then. I stand corrected. In a lot of circumstances both posters and oral abstracts are considered as abstracts. For CVs, that is often how it's done. But if they separate them out, go for it.

But as I said and agree with above, don't list things twice.

List the presentation even if it is published. Some actually present same study in multiple meetings.

Only list the abstract if the abstract is officially published in a journal. Some journals actually publish abstracts. E.g. Journal of Surgical Oncology. but not American Surgeon. Note I said if it is officially published in a journal... not the meeting agenda/curriculum book.

I am still a little unclear on this. In my case, I submitted an abstract to society for neuroscience 2003 meeting, it was considered by a review board, accepted, and then I presented the abstract as a poster at the annual meeting. The abstract was published in the meeting handout and an online abstract viewer/itinerary planner. Should I list this as a peer reviewed abstract or poster presentation?
I also have 1 with the same situation but the abstract was published in a supplement to the journal Alcoholism Clinical and Experimental Research for the Annual Meeting for Research Society on Alcoholism? What should I list this one as?
Please help, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills

Related Question:

I have a bunch of posters, most just had their abstract published in the big giant book that was essentially the meeting schedule. So I'm assuming I list those as posters.

For two of them, the Abstract was published in a JOURNAL, but basically all the abstracts from the respective meetings were published in those journals, it is essentially like a meeting schedule except it seems to be associated with a journal.
Also - I can access them through the journal's "archives" online, but the pages with the abstracts have wierd page numbers that start with "E" (ex pE91) and are out of sequence with everything else in the journal so I'm wondering if that means "electronic" and perhaps was only ever "published" in the electronic format? (But I do have a Journal Title, Volume Number, Issue Number, and that (wierd) page number, so I could totally type up a legitimate looking "journal citation".)

Any thoughts?
1)List as poster?
2)List as "peer-reviewed" abstract?
3)List as both of the above? (ie - list it twice?) That might look like overkill.

thanks in advance!

My advice, as I said above, would just be to not list anything twice. I don't think there are truly "wrong" answers as to where to list these things when it is uncertain where to put them. I wasn't aware that there was a separate section for "poster presentations" now - in my CV I have I think about a dozen abstracts, and I just put all of them under one category of "Abstracts/poster presentations." And then at the end of the citation I listed whether it was a poster or an oral abstract. For many scientific meetings they are basically equivalent in terms of your CV.

I guess if I was faced with these issues now I would just list them under the highest category that they attained. To be honest, I don't really think anybody cares all that much where your publications are listed, because they will all show up. I don't think I would put a published poster abstract as a peer reviewed publication akin to an 8 page research study (I might list at the end of the abstract citation that it was published in Journal X though). That being said, I am sure there are people who do do this and I doubt anything bad happens to them. Just get your abstract into the CV somehow, that's the most important thing.

aesop said:

I am still a little unclear on this. In my case, I submitted an abstract to society for neuroscience 2003 meeting, it was considered by a review board, accepted, and then I presented the abstract as a poster at the annual meeting. The abstract was published in the meeting handout and an online abstract viewer/itinerary planner. Should I list this as a peer reviewed abstract or poster presentation?
I also have 1 with the same situation but the abstract was published in a supplement to the journal Alcoholism Clinical and Experimental Research for the Annual Meeting for Research Society on Alcoholism? What should I list this one as?
Please help, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills

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what did you decide on, I am in a similar position?

Sorry to revive an old thread.

But, simply put, how does one list abstracts that were also poster or oral presentations?

For instance, if an abstract was also presented as an oral presentation, would I list it twice (once under abstract, and again under oral presentation)?

Thank you!!

While I am still an MD/PhD student and not filling out ERAS yet I have some experience with listing these on CV's and Biosketches. I hope this can clarify things

Poster Presentation - you submitted an abstract to a meeting that was accepted for a poster presentation. You went to the meeting, put up your poster and stood by it. This type of submission does not usually count as peer reviewed because you don't receive any feedback on your work.

Oral Presentation - same as above, but the conference really liked your abstract and selected you to present your work in a talk. You got up on the stage and went through the data you submitted on your abstract. This is typically viewed as better than a poster presentation.

Peer Review Abstract - fairly uncommon. You submit your work as an abstract directly to a journal for publication. It goes out for peer review, you get comments, and it gets published in a journal and is searchable in pub med.

I do pulmonary research and our lab presents at the ATS conference. For this conference you submit an abstract, which is an application to present a poster or a talk. While these abstracts are then all published somewhere online, they don't count as peer reviewed abstracts as they were submitted as an application for a poster presentation. That is how most conferences work. You also shouldn't list the same abstract twice on your ERAS. If it was submitted to a conference you should list it either as a poster presentation or an oral talk, whichever you did.

bdc said:

Are there any guidelines on what counts as a poster presentation? I did make a poster and I stood by it! Haha. It wasn't a scientific thing for a journal or anything. It was a summer internship program sponsored by the school (but its a national program) where we worked/volunteered in the community. There was then a big symposium where we displayed our work and had the chance to show it nationally. I asked an advisor at my school if it counted and she said she thinks it would but she was not sure. Are there rules listed out there??

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It 'counts' in the sense that you are allowed to put it on your CAF. But application reviewers can see through that sort of thing pretty easily.

-AT.

So if I listed a published abstract under the "Publications" tab, am I not supposed to also list that research experience under the "Experience" tab with the Research Experience title?

DoctaJay said:

So if I listed a published abstract under the "Publications" tab, am I not supposed to also list that research experience under the "Experience" tab with the Research Experience title?

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No no, you should. The Pubs tab is for the nitty-gritty details, and the Experience tab for letting people know what YOU actually did on the proj.

Edit: our dean of students mentioned this article a few days ago, makes you think about how honest (or not) everyone is with this section of ERAS. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10608378

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bump please

Yes. It doesn't matter who presented it. If you are listed as an author of a presented abstract, you can list it on your CV.

to piggy back on the question, i participated in research day at school, i didnt present anything but we listened to presenters and took a mini quiz at the end and got a certificate showing we were there and participated.

is that ok to list or does that should weak?

aProgDirector said:

This should not be listed. You only list things that you submit, are peer reviewed, and competitively assessed. Simply attending a meeting is not CV worthy.

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thats what i was thinking, but when i attended they specifically stated that you can use this to add on your applications.

but it just seems way too weak

calespine said:

I've submitted a few presentations to national meetings, and they have been accepted for podium presentations with me as the first author, but my PI actually went to the meetings and presented. He told me to still put those talks as oral presentations in the Publications section since I was first author and did all the work to be accepted to talk. Is this kosher/common?

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No. If you list something in the "oral presentations" section of your CV, then you are representing that you were the one who did the presentation. You may be "first author", but you were not the presenter. When the publication comes out in print, then you will have a chance to list yourself as first author.

-AT.

atsai3 said:

No. If you list something in the "oral presentations" section of your CV, then you are representing that you were the one who did the presentation. You may be "first author", but you were not the presenter. When the publication comes out in print, then you will have a chance to list yourself as first author.

-AT.

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would you say this goes for 'poster presentations' too? i was second author and worked on the thing even though i wasnt present so i was hoping i could still put it down.

modelslashactor said:

would you say this goes for 'poster presentations' too? i was second author and worked on the thing even though i wasnt present so i was hoping i could still put it down.

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You can "put it down" in the research experiences section. Not in the "presentations" section-- because you didn't present it.

-AT.

In the same vein...

I have some poster presentations where I was listed as a 2nd or 3rd author but did not actually present (for one of those, I was 3 posters down actually presenting a different project). This was at a large ASCO event where they did publish a book listing everyone's abstracts that were on display. Does this fall under "Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts"? Would it be acceptable to list under "Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts(Other than Published). . . "? From what I gather from this thread, it is not appropriate to list these as poster presentations.

pcarlson05 said:

In the same vein...

I have some poster presentations where I was listed as a 2nd or 3rd author but did not actually present (for one of those, I was 3 posters down actually presenting a different project). This was at a large ASCO event where they did publish a book listing everyone's abstracts that were on display. Does this fall under "Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts"? Would it be acceptable to list under "Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts(Other than Published). . . "? From what I gather from this thread, it is not appropriate to list these as poster presentations.

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Here is an easy way to think about it:

1) Did I do any of the talking? If the answer to this question is 'yes', then put it down as 'presented'. If the answer to this question is 'no', then put it down somewhere else. I have been to conferences where two authors shared the speaking time. I have been to conferences where the third author was the speaker. The fact that she was the speaker does not bump her up on the authorship list; but she was the speaker, so she should be listed as the conference presenter.

2) Was the abstract published in an indexed journal? If the answer to this question is 'yes', then put it down as 'published'. If the answer to this question is 'no', then put it down somewhere else. An example of an abstract published in an indexed journal would be something like: Richardson DB. Prospective Confirmation of Casemix-independent Increased Inpatient Length of Stay in Patients with Long Total Emergency Department Time. Acad Emerg Med 2003 May;10(5):523. That is, if you do a PubMed search, then you will not find the abstract. But if you go to the May 2003 issue of Academic Emergency Medicine, you will find the abstract. Having an abstract published in the poster book or program book of the Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections is not the same thing -- the poster book is not indexed. Having an abstract published on the CD-ROM of the American College of Neuropsychopharmacology is not the same thing -- the CD-ROM is not indexed.

3) Am I trying to upsell? If the answer to this question is 'yes', then you should make sure you are not. It is worth noting here that in the recent Wiggins paper describing misrepresentation by applicants to an ophthalmology residency training program, every single one of the misrepresentations that resulted in a change in authorship order was a self-promotion (e.g., the applicant listed herself as 3rd author when in fact she was 4th author). Wiggins describes how these could have been careless mistakes rather than deliberate misrepresentation, but if that were the case, then one would expect to see an equal number of self-demotions compared to self-promotions (e.g., an applicant making a careless error should be just as likely to list himself as 5th author when in fact he should be listed as 4th). It is troubling to see documented evidence of this trend in a peer reviewed journal. All of these questions on this SDN thread are suggestive of the same thing: everyone is asking if it is appropriate to upsell. It is not.

Accept this advice for your own good. Upselling just makes you look like a loser (to any application reviewer who can detect it), and the evaluation of your application will suffer.

-AT.

"All of these questions on this SDN thread are suggestive of the same thing: everyone is asking if it is appropriate to upsell. It is not...Upselling just makes you look like a loser "

I am sorry that you feel this way. I posted this on SDN not because I am asking if it is appropriate to upsell, but because I had a legitimate question and I was confused about the answer. Many of my peers and attendings, my research PIs, have told me to list these as abstracts/presentations. SDN tells me not to. So I just give a post for clarification, NOT for permission to upsell or whatever. Notice I never asked if I could list myself as a higher author or anything, yet you spend quite some time speaking on this while answering my question.

It is inappropriate and a bit judgemental to reference a paper showing misrepresentation in a response to my question (in quotes) and then later insinuate that I am trying to upsell. I hope you realize this if you continue to counsel other students and applicants. Sometimes we have honest questions. You may think they are stupid or selfish, when they are actually honest. Please, in the future don't be so quick to jump on future applicants when answering their questions. This process isn't easy, and it's not like we are all given a book on how to document these things. But thanks anyway for the advice I guess. Take care.