overcoming debt

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freddydpt

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I have a question for all those going into family practice.

I calculated my debt post-medical school to be slightly over 300k 😱
Should I automatically eliminate FP from my choices of careers because of signficant debt? Will I be able to pay it back considering FP is one of the lower paying specialties. I am thinking I want to do Sports Medicine and be a team physician and I don't think my low back is up to the challenge of orthopedic surgery. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

PS. I thought about the NHSC but I'm not positive about primary care yet. And I can't join the HPSP's cause I have asthma. Any other ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks!
 
howd it get that high...a lot people id spoken to when i did my elective in the states had gotten all these financial aid and schloarships which had reduced their tution bill to 0.
 
My debt will be around 250,000. At my school (in the states) we had no opportunity for scholarships but they sure were able to give us plenty of loans. The only scholarship I got was my first year for about 1,000 from my high school. Woohoo! So Freddydpt you are not alone, but unfortunately I have no words of advice for paying it back, bc I also want to go into FP.
 
I'll also owe over 300K; I'm pursuing an health service administration master's at the same time and have 5.5 children...it's a good time.

I'm not quite sure about paying it off, but it seems that you could/should begin after being able to moonlight; I mean if you're able to make an additional 30K or so it'd be wise to apply it to loans and make a 60K dent. The debt relief I've seen offered by some practices is usually 50-60K; not a ton in my book, but beat's a stick in the eye. The reality is that one ought to continue to live like a resident for several more years post-residency in order to make decent progress against that debt. The specialties I am interested in are low-paying (peds and fp), so I will need to put in a lot of extra time to get things paid off more quickly.
 
great thing about fp is that as a resident and even after, you can moonlight in several places like small rural er's, urgent care centers, perform junior high and high school physicals, etc. IM residents are pretty limited to hospitalist stuff. in my residency the fp residents can do that too. moonlighting is great...good experience and autonomy and extra cash unsurpassed! we get like $65/hr.

i agree with the above post about not going into a residency for the $$$. you may be miserable later and have lots of regrets! there are lots of underserved areas paying good money with loan payback for fp's.
 
On the other hand, you could just as easily be just as miserable (and now poor) if you don't choose a residency based on the $$$.

I know a few FPs leaving the specialty and doing Rads residency because of money issues. They regret being too idealistic.

Not saying you shouldn't do what you like, but it's never wise to completely ignore finances.

That being said, FPs make about $120,000. No reason you couldn't live off of that, even with the debt. Most of the country does. Just don't live beyond your means.
 
I am not in the medical field yet. However, my family is made up of physicians and I have asked them the ultimate question ..."What the hell am I going to do about the debt I incur from medical school?"

What most people don't realize is that once you have completed your residency training and are looking for jobs, certain groups/practices/hospitals offer reimbursement of student loans. That is, if you sign with them, they may up to 65K of your loans. I have heard small rural town hospitals paying up to 100K in loans. So the hinderance of loans is not a burden that can't be tackled. I suggest you focus on doing well in medical school and living as frugal as possilbe. The less loans, the less you have to payback, and the more opportunity of a company paying to reduce the loans by almost 1/2.
 
The problem comes from people in the medical field considering $100k/yr to be a low income. This is so much more than the majority of people in America make, it's not even funny. Just because you're a doctor, doesn't mean you have to live in a huge house with big, new, expensive cars and take expensive vacations. If you want to pay off debt, simply continue to live like a resident (btw, still well above the "average" american), and put all the extra income towards debt repayment. You'll pay off your debt in less time and therefore will end up paying less interest.
 
Look at it this way, if you are making 100K year, before taxes, take home is about $6000/month. Put $1000 month to your loan, I'm paying 2k/month for my mid-income house in San Diego. Now you are down to $3K for car, retirement, insurance for car/health, conferences, and day to day bills. It doesn't go as far as you wold think. With that loan, you will bust your butt to live a middle income lifestyle for quite a while.
 
r90t said:
Look at it this way, if you are making 100K year, before taxes, take home is about $6000/month. Put $1000 month to your loan, I'm paying 2k/month for my mid-income house in San Diego. Now you are down to $3K for car, retirement, insurance for car/health, conferences, and day to day bills. It doesn't go as far as you wold think. With that loan, you will bust your butt to live a middle income lifestyle for quite a while.
Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking. 3K wont streatch all that far. Is there some way around what r90t has posted?? I mean, it makes sense.
 
gwyn779 said:
The problem comes from people in the medical field considering $100k/yr to be a low income. This is so much more than the majority of people in America make, it's not even funny. Just because you're a doctor, doesn't mean you have to live in a huge house with big, new, expensive cars and take expensive vacations. If you want to pay off debt, simply continue to live like a resident (btw, still well above the "average" american), and put all the extra income towards debt repayment. You'll pay off your debt in less time and therefore will end up paying less interest.
Click to expand...


Maybe in podunk, usa 100K is alot of money, but in any major city in the US it is not much money(particularly if you are saddled with 200K in student loans). The sentiment of your post just kills me. Doctors are the only profession I know where there are people who are content to earn less than their training or efforts are worth. Can you imagine lawyers sitting around thinking "you know 275K a year is enough, we really don't need anymore than that." There is no shame in wanting to earn a good living, and particularly after what we go through(the most rigorous training of any profession), and the years of earning that we put on hold while we train. Protect your living, because if you don't others will encroach upon it.
 
bigmuny said:
Maybe in podunk, usa 100K is alot of money, but in any major city in the US it is not much money(particularly if you are saddled with 200K in student loans). The sentiment of your post just kills me. Doctors are the only profession I know where there are people who are content to earn less than their training or efforts are worth. Can you imagine lawyers sitting around thinking "you know 275K a year is enough, we really don't need anymore than that." There is no shame in wanting to earn a good living, and particularly after what we go through(the most rigorous training of any profession), and the years of earning that we put on hold while we train. Protect your living, because if you don't others will encroach upon it.
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While I certainly agree that doctors are not compensated commisserate with their training, unless you live on the west coast or east coast, 100K IS a lot of money. Face it, cost of living is much higher in say LA or NYC than it is in Houston, Dallas, or Chicago (all MAJOR cities, not "podunk, usa"), which means in the vast majority of the US, 100K still is a great deal of money, particularly for someone just starting their career. That's still taking into account the large debt that med school leaves. The trick is don't live outside your means. As someone else suggested, live like a resident for 5 -7 years. The higher income as a practicing physician will go a lot further when you don't automatically buy that fancy new house, send the kids to a private school, buy that new car, or take that vacation you've been dreaming of. It amazes me that people fresh out of school, armed with that degree (I'm not just talking just about medical people here - I mean the new MBA, or new lawyer, etc) think they are ENTITLED to be bringing in the big bucks like the CEO or managing partner. Yes, you want (and need) to make enough money to make ends meet, and hopefully start to get ahead. If that means moving to smaller house from where you are now, or trading in your car for a lesser expensive make....then do it. Remember, too, you're running a business, which means that many things are deductible which pertain to your practice. Your best bet is to contact a reputable CPA. Just as you don't expect lay people to know how to be a doctor, neither should you expect to know how to be an accountant, or how to best maximize the money you have available. I'd be willing to bet that a large number of doctors who have been forced out of their practice, didn't follow (or have available) the counsel of a reputable accountant.
 
100k is not enough....

after tax you gonna take home like good 80k
then student loan can be as high as 1800 a month
Car payments insurance....
credit card bills
some places I have been told ask the physician to pay the malpractice.

The important thing is....
during the first of your job people should work really hard....
work extra elsewhere...

Then start a practice fast.....

working for someone else you won't make much money...
 
gwyn779 said:
The problem comes from people in the medical field considering $100k/yr to be a low income. This is so much more than the majority of people in America make, it's not even funny. Just because you're a doctor, doesn't mean you have to live in a huge house with big, new, expensive cars and take expensive vacations. If you want to pay off debt, simply continue to live like a resident (btw, still well above the "average" american), and put all the extra income towards debt repayment. You'll pay off your debt in less time and therefore will end up paying less interest.
Click to expand...

😕 But the vast majority of Americans don't have 300K debt. Here is the loan calculation from finaid.org:

Monthly Loan Payment: $3,452.41
Number of Payments: 120

Cumulative Payments: $414,289.18
Total Interest Paid: $114,289.18

Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $3,452.41 plus a final payment of $3,452.39.

It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $414,289.20 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $276,192.80, but you may experience some financial difficulty.
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If you make $6000 a month as a FP, and you pay $3400, this leaves you with only $2600 to "live like a resident" off of for 10 yrs, which is actually less than residents make. Thus I don't see how you could say anyone is being greedy to worry about it. The OP is looking at "living like a resident" for potentially more than 10 years to pay off this loan and is right to be concerned.

You can use income adjusted payments - using the OP's figures you would pay $1800 a month for 25 years, and the government would write off the remainder thereafter (though you pay tax on it as income - still not sure how that works). This may be the best way to go.
 
If you're married, consider being a two-income household. Then you'll have the added benefit of seeing if your spouse married a doctor for money instead of love (i.e. thinking they'd never have to work again). 😉
 
DoctorDoogie4 said:
...once you have completed your residency training and are looking for jobs, certain groups/practices/hospitals offer reimbursement of student loans. That is, if you sign with them, they may up to 65K of your loans. I have heard small rural town hospitals paying up to 100K in loans.
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Doogie gave the best advice here. If you can get $100K toward your loans from a rural practice/hospital, you've knocked that $300K debt way down. If you can get it under $200K from the get-go, it should be much easier to handle without "living like a resident" for a number of additional years.
 
I've seen alot of these money threads popping up lately, and I think it's really funny that so many SDN-ers think that 100k is not alot of money. The median income according to the US Census Bureau is $48,201. Having been in the workforce making 30k a year, I can tell you that 100k is good pay. I think there are 2 problems at work here.

1. People are jealous of how much some docs in other specialties make. They hear about rads or ortho making 500K+ and think that 100k isn't enough money.

2. People have a skewed perception of what "rich" means. With shows like Cribs showing the multimillion dollar homes of movie stars, people think that means "rich". This is wrong. The people on Cribs and their ilk (movie/music/sports stars, CEO's of major corporations, etc) are REALLY, REALLY, F-ing RICH. There's a big difference here people and let's not forget it.

That being said, of course debt is an issue, but be smart about it people. Don't live like Nelly and you just might be ok. Just remember that your making 2-3 times as much as your patients do.
 
I have already replied to a post just like yours. Please see my post (#16) and reply in kind.

Thank you.

digitlnoize said:
I've seen alot of these money threads popping up lately, and I think it's really funny that so many SDN-ers think that 100k is not alot of money. The median income according to the US Census Bureau is $48,201. Having been in the workforce making 30k a year, I can tell you that 100k is good pay. I think there are 2 problems at work here.

1. People are jealous of how much some docs in other specialties make. They hear about rads or ortho making 500K+ and think that 100k isn't enough money.

2. People have a skewed perception of what "rich" means. With shows like Cribs showing the multimillion dollar homes of movie stars, people think that means "rich". This is wrong. The people on Cribs and their ilk (movie/music/sports stars, CEO's of major corporations, etc) are REALLY, REALLY, F-ing RICH. There's a big difference here people and let's not forget it.

That being said, of course debt is an issue, but be smart about it people. Don't live like Nelly and you just might be ok. Just remember that your making 2-3 times as much as your patients do.
Click to expand...
 
Hard24Get said:
But the vast majority of Americans don't have 300K debt.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are getting at here, but I think you're over simplifying the equation. It's true, doctors have ALOT of educational debt...much more than most people. However, if we're talking about the "vast majority" here, we should also be including a second income in these calculations because most working professionals are married and many of the spouses bring a sizeable income into the equation.

For example, my wife is a dental hygieneist making around 60k/year. That is a sizeable amount to add to a GP salary of $150k. That's 210k combined. Or around 12000/month after taxes. So, split that in half ($6000/mo to debt, $6000/mo to live on) and you're living better than the average american ($6000 x 12 = 72000 after taxes).

Besides, even if you are single and it takes 10 years to pay down the debt (we are ignoring debt forgiveness, and other ways to take care of it...the military, the mafia, etc 😀) you will then be sitting pretty once out of debt to be make 2-4x what your patients earn.

I'm still not seeing the problem. Does it suck to be that in debt for that long? Yes. But once you're out of debt you are making more than most people. Besides, who really does this for the money?
 
digitlnoize said:
I understand what you are getting at here, but I think you're over simplifying the equation. It's true, doctors have ALOT of educational debt...much more than most people. However, if we're talking about the "vast majority" here, we should also be including a second income in these calculations because most working professionals are married and many of the spouses bring a sizeable income into the equation.

For example, my wife is a dental hygieneist making around 60k/year. That is a sizeable amount to add to a GP salary of $150k. That's 210k combined. Or around 12000/month after taxes. So, split that in half ($6000/mo to debt, $6000/mo to live on) and you're living better than the average american ($6000 x 12 = 72000 after taxes).

Besides, even if you are single and it takes 10 years to pay down the debt (we are ignoring debt forgiveness, and other ways to take care of it...the military, the mafia, etc 😀) you will then be sitting pretty once out of debt to be make 2-4x what your patients earn.

I'm still not seeing the problem. Does it suck to be that in debt for that long? Yes. But once you're out of debt you are making more than most people. Besides, who really does this for the money?
Click to expand...


I was just making the point that it can be rather tight and the OPs question was a legitimate one. Without some of the special programs, according to the government you cannot afford to pay back your debt as an FP, or really many other specialties. This does, in fact, drive people away from primary care. It is a real issue.

Good for you being married to a dental hygienist - a lot of us will be married to professionals with just as much debt/income ratio to deal with. It is difficult to figure out how to pay off debt with bills passing all the time to raise interest rates and eliminate deferment programs. It is easy to be glib when you are not actually worrying about it yourself and haven't already gone through struggling financially as a college student, medical student, and then resident. Many of my classmates aren't in it for the money, they are just tired of struggling while having to show up to clinic wearing nice clothes and pay off credit card debt from interviews. Some people just want to be able to buy a house.

I was overly flippant about this as a pre-med, too, but I think these types of responses don't help the OP.
 
digitlnoize said:
I understand what you are getting at here, but I think you're over simplifying the equation. It's true, doctors have ALOT of educational debt...much more than most people. However, if we're talking about the "vast majority" here, we should also be including a second income in these calculations because most working professionals are married and many of the spouses bring a sizeable income into the equation.

For example, my wife is a dental hygieneist making around 60k/year. That is a sizeable amount to add to a GP salary of $150k. That's 210k combined. Or around 12000/month after taxes. So, split that in half ($6000/mo to debt, $6000/mo to live on) and you're living better than the average american ($6000 x 12 = 72000 after taxes).

Besides, even if you are single and it takes 10 years to pay down the debt (we are ignoring debt forgiveness, and other ways to take care of it...the military, the mafia, etc 😀) you will then be sitting pretty once out of debt to be make 2-4x what your patients earn.

I'm still not seeing the problem. Does it suck to be that in debt for that long? Yes. But once you're out of debt you are making more than most people. Besides, who really does this for the money?
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Don't worry, Hillary and her bleeding-heart liberal ilk will come along and take care of your so-called "2-4x what your parents earn" cushion real quick! Lets open the flood gates and put all of the billion immigrants on socialized healthcare! 👍

"Once you are out of debt you are making more than most people"... Agreed, but who of us will be "out of debt" within your magical 10 years when they have $300K loans to start? What about a house? Car payments? Insurance? Retirement savings? MALPRACTICE?

The naivete on this board is frightening.
 
There's no point in debating this with premeds. They haven't taken out federal loans for medical school yet, so it hasn't sunk in. Better yet, wait until they are residents, working 60, 80, 100 hours a week, and making 45k a year. Then, after 4 years of graduate school, 3+ years of post graduate residency training, and a lot of interest accumulation, ask them how they feel about making 100k a year. See if they still compare themselves to the "average" person in terms of income.
 
gclax30 said:
Don't worry, Hillary and her bleeding-heart liberal ilk will come along and take care of your so-called "2-4x what your parents earn" cushion real quick! Lets open the flood gates and put all of the billion immigrants on socialized healthcare! 👍

"Once you are out of debt you are making more than most people"... Agreed, but who of us will be "out of debt" within your magical 10 years when they have $300K loans to start? What about a house? Car payments? Insurance? Retirement savings? MALPRACTICE?

The naivete on this board is frightening.
Click to expand...

You don't seem to have your political facts in order. While the business world even seems to want socialized medicine these days (speak to Ford and GM who are moving their plants across the border to Canada so that they don't have to pay for private health insurance themselves; or see the recent CNBC poll where a majority of Fortune 500 CEOs would rather have government-run healthcare than paying for insurance themselves)... Hillary does not.

Hillary's plan actually expands the employer-based health insurance system instead of branching into state-run healthcare like the rest of the free world employs. So if you don't want government healthcare, you'll love Hillary's plan.

Other than that, it seems like a good plan because it finally gets everyone insured. Ask the ER doctors if they enjoy being the primary care doctors for the derelict and my guess is that you'll probably find they will mostly be voting for whichever candidate plans to have universal health insurance coverage... in this case Hillary.
 
Doctor said:
Other than that, it seems like a good plan because it finally gets everyone insured. Ask the ER doctors if they enjoy being the primary care doctors for the derelict and my guess is that you'll probably find they will mostly be voting for whichever candidate plans to have universal health insurance coverage... in this case Hillary.
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General sentiment on the EM board is that reimbursements will just decline to level income out if the numbered of insured increases. There might also be further expansion of things like The Joint Commission requirements/quality indicators (read: more admin headaches and paperwork).
 
Here's a 2006 scenario for a guy in Illinois.

Please remember this is entirely hypothetical and does not represent a financial plan. To get a real financial plan you need to see your local professional and go over your specific situation.


A new doctor in Illinois in 2006 made $150,000 per year, had a stay at home spouse and two kids, had a brand new 30 year mortgage of $350,000 @ 7%, had a student loan balance of $225,000 to be paid over 25 years @ 4%, had real estate taxes of $7,500 per year, and bought two new cars @ $20,000 each @8% interest his financial life would look like this:

Wages
150,000.00​


FICA
5,580.00​
Medicare
2,175.00​
Federal Tax
19,855.00​
Illinois Tax
4,440.00​
Total Tax
32,050.00​




RE Tax
7,500.00​
School Loan
14,251.59​
Mortgage PMT
27,942.70​
Taxes & Loans
49,694.30​


Total Tax & Loan & MTG
81,744.30​


Wages – Tax & Loans
68,255.70​


Car Payments
9,732.67​


Disposable Income
58,523.03​

The federal income tax calculation assumes that this is the first year of the mortgage and you would have $24,500 in deductible mortgage interest.

You would still need to buy term life insurance to protect your kids, food, gas, car insurance, utilities & clothes.

Please also remember that compared to most Americans you would be in the lap of luxury and doing something interesting and worthwhile.


:laugh:😍:hardy:
 
Hard24Get said:
😕 But the vast majority of Americans don't have 300K debt. Here is the loan calculation from finaid.org:

Quote:Monthly Loan Payment: $3,452.41
Number of Payments: 120

Cumulative Payments: $414,289.18
Total Interest Paid: $114,289.18

Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $3,452.41 plus a final payment of $3,452.39.

It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $414,289.20 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $276,192.80, but you may experience some financial difficulty.
Click to expand...

Umm...this is pretty stupid because the 10% and 15% finaid.org is using is geared towards normal debt amounts and normal salary amounts for undergrads.

When you are ACTUALLY making $414,289.20, you don't need to keep 90% of your income to live. The reason why they assume you can only put 10% towards repayment is because they're assuming you're making a normal average american salary. And the 15% financial difficulties thing again is mostly meant for regular salaries.

For example, when I tell the loan calculator that I owe $30,000,000 in debt at 6.8% interest it says:

Loan Balance: $30,000,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $30,000,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00


Monthly Loan Payment: $345,240.99
Number of Payments: 120


Cumulative Payments: $41,428,918.89
Total Interest Paid: $11,428,918.89



Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $345,240.99 plus a final payment of $345,241.08.

It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $41,428,918.80 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $27,619,279.20, but you may experience some financial difficulty.
Click to expand...

Seriously, quit being a *******. If you made $27 million a year you would not be in financial difficulty from having to pay $6 million a year in repayments, and you obviously do not need an annual salary of $41 million to repay a $30,000,000 loan comfortably. That 10% and 15% financial difficulty statement is just there because the vast majority of college educated Americans only make enough so that they can only afford to repay 10% or 15% a year.
 
Obnoxious Dad said:
Here's a 2006 scenario for a guy in Illinois.

Please remember this is entirely hypothetical and does not represent a financial plan. To get a real financial plan you need to see your local professional and go over your specific situation.


A new doctor in Illinois in 2006 made $150,000 per year, had a stay at home spouse and two kids, had a brand new 30 year mortgage of $350,000 @ 7%, had a student loan balance of $225,000 to be paid over 25 years @ 4%, had real estate taxes of $7,500 per year, and bought two new cars @ $20,000 each @8% interest his financial life would look like this:

Wages
150,000.00​


FICA
5,580.00​
Medicare
2,175.00​
Federal Tax
19,855.00​
Illinois Tax
4,440.00​
Total Tax
32,050.00​




RE Tax
7,500.00​
School Loan
14,251.59​
Mortgage PMT
27,942.70​
Taxes & Loans
49,694.30​


Total Tax & Loan & MTG
81,744.30​


Wages – Tax & Loans
68,255.70​


Car Payments
9,732.67​


Disposable Income
58,523.03​

The federal income tax calculation assumes that this is the first year of the mortgage and you would have $24,500 in deductible mortgage interest.

You would still need to buy term life insurance to protect your kids, food, gas, car insurance, utilities & clothes.

Please also remember that compared to most Americans you would be in the lap of luxury and doing something interesting and worthwhile.


:laugh:😍:hardy:
Click to expand...

That's not that bad since that's almost $60K leftover after paying the car bill and the mortgage (which are the biggest bills). And the mortgage is going into equity in the home anyway so the money isn't neccessarily disappearing.

Not super pimp luxury or anything, but it's not an uncomfortable existence. I think it's just that we're all kinda psycho overachievers who feel like we have to have 2 $80K cars in the garage and not 2 $20K cars. And even that $350K house seems a little splurgy (well, unless it's like a Chicago area home I guess?) for Illinois. Then all of a sudden the extra $120K you want to blow on cars makes you feel poor, but there's no actual reason why you *need* that Porsche 911 Turbo lol.
 
Cirrus83 said:
Seriously, quit being a *******.
Click to expand...

Ok. 🙄


You make a good point, but I would like to see the calculations above at 6.8% and on a monthly basis. More importantly, I would like to hear from people who are actually FPs paying off expensive loans rather than some MS1 still learning Biochem. I think this is what the OP was looking for. I love how the less experienced like to assume everyone who worries about this wants to live in "pimp luxury". 🙄
 
You guys are making me glad I chose to be a Caribbean medical student. So much less debt.

You can buy a used 2001 mercedez for $20K or so - you do not have to buy new (you do not even have to buy Mercedez - for the same money you can buy new Saturn Skye or Pontiac Solstice - nice sports cars for $20K). The point is you can have some luxury for less than luxury cost. I mean, a guy only needs 3 things : a good car, a good bed and a good TV (sorry I have no idea what girls need). The guy who has 5 kids could make $150K and only pay something like $20K in taxes if he has a decent accountant. After paying loans he would still have $90K or so to live on.

\You may not want to try and buy down your loan early, - depending on your market, you may want to invest extra money in property (which payments are tax deductible) and then sell it - right now in San Diego, Phoenix, Orlando etc property values have dropped some and foreclosures are way up - lots of good property for sale at a steal - the market is bound to recover. If you don't want to pay capital gains buy a house you plan on selling and live in it a few years and then sell it when the market rebounds - if you buy a foreclosed house and live in it and sell it without capital gains, you could get a tax break for the money you spend and end up paying your loan off completely with the profit. Real estate is one of those things that always becomes more valuable in the long run.

I love the idea of owning a multidisiplinary office. Can make a ton of money off other providers who share space with you (especially if they are service oriented professions with low overhead), and get a ton of referrels. if you are FP you don't want to share space with alot of other FP - maybe one other so you can cover each other when you leave on vacation.
 
Monthly Loan Payment: $3,452.41
Number of Payments: 120

Pardon my ignorance of the loans AMG's have now - but they only give you 10 years to pay the loan off?
 
bkpa2med said:
No. That's just standard repayment.
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Then I would start making payments on the 20 or 30 year plan , whatever they allow you, invest the difference into real estate - sell it in 5 years and use the profit to pay off a larger (or entire) chunk of your loan. If you can put $1000 in real estate each month instead of paying it on the loan at a 10 year rate, in 5 years you should be able to make more profit.
 
Also I am sure many of you are 30 or less - if 10 years is standard, you could have that debt paid off by 38, and then if you continue to live frugally and invest $3K a month for 10 years - by age 48 you would have 3/4 mill or so.
 
Doowai said:
Then I would start making payments on the 20 or 30 year plan , whatever they allow you, invest the difference into real estate - sell it in 5 years and use the profit to pay off a larger (or entire) chunk of your loan. If you can put $1000 in real estate each month instead of paying it on the loan at a 10 year rate, in 5 years you should be able to make more profit.
Click to expand...

Right, 'cause we all know you're guaranteed to make money in the real estate market. Especially since we're all doctors. Real estate speculation is a gamble, not an investment. You'd be wise to recognize it as such.
 
Frijolero said:
Right, 'cause we all know you're guaranteed to make money in the real estate market. Especially since we're all doctors. Real estate speculation is a gamble, not an investment. You'd be wise to recognize it as such.
Click to expand...

Believe me I know that. But I also know that over the long run real estate has never become worth less. Real estate in even Los Angeles is worth more now than it was 20 years ago.

However if you are trying to time the market, or flip property you are right - its a gamble. But even over a 5 year period its a good bet.
 
Um, yeah, no debt now but....

my theory is you have 3 choices:
1) take the highest paying job you can get out of residency (preferably in someplace rural and remote where you can bill for lots of procedures and cost of living is low), buckle down, and pay it off.
2) take the middle of the road approach, pay as much as you can but live a more "normal" MD lifestyle, live where you want to live, work where you want to work (ie, make less in a higher cost of living area)
3) take the "I'm not paying" approach, and work as little as possible with as little income as possible over the next 25 years (cash and barter practice, be a stay at home parent, work part time, build your own log cabin, do 12 years of fellowships....), thus making that 15% as small as possible.

Geez, $300G, I'm so sorry, please don't let that happen to me.....
 
So is there a list of rural medicine programs with loan reimbursements?
 
abefromann said:
So is there a list of rural medicine programs with loan reimbursements?
Click to expand...

http://nhsc.bhpr.hrsa.gov/jobs/

This is for the nhsc, if you go to a place with a high enough health care need then you are guaranteed funding. If I recall it is 25k/yr for 2 years and you can tack on a 3rd for 35k (double check this, it could have changed, or I might be remembering incorrectly). Won't cover everything, but it's a start.

There are many other programs available as well, but this is the one with the best search function.
 
Reading this thread, I'm left wondering if I'm the only one who WANTS to live in the "middle of nowhere." 🙂 Of course, that middle of nowhere is AK, so it's an expensive nowhere, but, still, I'd rather live in Wyoming or Montana than NYC or LA....
 
well, that's good. i'm a fan of smallish cities, and like visiting big ones. I went to u-grad at Columbia and find NYC to be a ridiculous waste of money.
 
biogirl215 said:
Reading this thread, I'm left wondering if I'm the only one who WANTS to live in the "middle of nowhere." 🙂 Of course, that middle of nowhere is AK, so it's an expensive nowhere, but, still, I'd rather live in Wyoming or Montana than NYC or LA....
Click to expand...
I want to live in the middle of nowhere too biogirl. I hate cities.
 
Doowai said:
Believe me I know that. But I also know that over the long run real estate has never become worth less. Real estate in even Los Angeles is worth more now than it was 20 years ago.

However if you are trying to time the market, or flip property you are right - its a gamble. But even over a 5 year period its a good bet.
Click to expand...

And real estate in Tokyo, Saipan, Guam and many other places around the world is worth a lot less today than it was twenty years ago. Come on, seriously...quit trying to summarize your knowledge of real estate in two sentences. It has the benefit of hindsight and is worthless.

A person shouldn't take on $300 K of debt if thet plan on going into FP. It's a bad plan for the future. If I was in that situation I would be deeply dissatisfied working alongside IMGs making the same income but without the same debt loads.

However, what is done is done, and if you are in that situation, then you will have to suck it up and take the job in the location that will allow you to live nicely and pay the debt.
 
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