States not "friendly" to DOs

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mjos22

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I was talking to a friend of mine who said a DO told her NY and FL were not "friendly" to DOs. Is this true? If you went to a state like FL to practice, would you find less support than if you were in a different state? Are there other locations like this too, or was this doctor just over-generalizing?

I would like to work in illinois someday, but I don't want to get passed over for every position just because someone else is an MD (I doubt its this extreme, but its a minor concern of mine since I don't want to go into primary care, which means I will be competing with MDs for jobs).
 
tell your friend not to believe everything he/she hears or to take anything at face value

Edit: in the real world, once you're done with training ... position/advancement is based on your skills and personality, not your degree. If you're good, people will notice. If you're a screw up or lazy or a malpractice suit waiting to happen, people will notice. The "DO" is not the scarlet letter that every pre-med thinks it is. It's all based on you. For example, if you have little or no research and no publication in big journals, don't blame the DO degree for not getting a tenure-tracked position at a large academic center. But then again, if you look carefully, there are DOs in tenure-tracked position at large academic centers (Mayo, Yale, etc)
 
Unless your friend has had experience in every clinical setting within those states then there is a good chance that she cannot attest to how all DO's are treated within those states. From what I remember NY and FL have osteopathic schools (FL has 2) and both are within the top 5 states for the number of practicing DO's. Go to the AOA web-site and look through thier publications to see which states have the most DO's. This won't necesserialy tell you how Do's are treated, but chances are that in the states with the most DO's, there will be a better understanding of osteopathic practice.

IMO, it would be impossible to say that a particular state is hostile to DO's. Do osteopathic doctors still face some hostility within the medical community? It probable, but this is more of a concern for pre-med's than actual physicians, with some exceptions. I have shadowed a DO surgeon in Alabama (a state that is often considered "hostile" for DO's)...he runs a successful private practice and said that his degree was never an issue.
 
As for "competing" with MD's for jobs...this is more of an issue for residencies. There are plently of MD's who are in primary care...internal medicine is primary care and one of the most popular MD fields. If you choose to persue an allopathic residency from an osteopathic school, then you will compete with MD's. There are still some fields where they may have an advantage, but DO's work in every field and have gotten residencies in MD programs ranging from family practice to neruosurgery.

Try to find an osteopathic physician who has completed a residency and can't find a job. For that matter, try to find any physician who is unemployed in a certian state. It's pretty tough...
 
mjos22 said:
I was talking to a friend of mine who said a DO told her NY and FL were not "friendly" to DOs. Is this true? If you went to a state like FL to practice, would you find less support than if you were in a different state? Are there other locations like this too, or was this doctor just over-generalizing?

I would like to work in illinois someday, but I don't want to get passed over for every position just because someone else is an MD (I doubt its this extreme, but its a minor concern of mine since I don't want to go into primary care, which means I will be competing with MDs for jobs).
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Ask your friend how NY and FL are unfriendly to DO's when they both put out a large number of them (there are three DO schools in those two states... four if Touro-Harlem becomes a DO school)
 
Kind of strange..I live in Florida and there are tons of DO's..esp around Nova..and South Florida.😕
 
I live in Florida (Tampa) as well and it seems like every practice has a DO. People are really understanding. I thought I heard that Florida had one of the highest amounts of DO's... I could be wrong though. But the point is I don't think your friend has there information right.
 
ditto to the tri-state area. tons of DO's in ny/nj/ct. especially in primary care fields (IM, GP, peds, OB GYN), but certainly alot in other fields too. one of my local hospitals was at least 50% DO a couple years back.

i think someone else said it too, but if a DO school is in the area, i tend to think they'd be widely accepted. just my opinion though. to ease your worries, i would check out some of those illinois hosptials to see how many DO's you see. i'm sure its alot!

lots of luck!! 🙂
 
I don't know whether or not New York is "friendly" towards DOs, but I can tell you what I've seen. I live in the Albany, NY area and we have very few DOs up here. I have noticed an increase in the last few years, but we still do not have a lot. The few DOs I know do not really practice osteopathic medicine and when I asked one of them whether or not they used manipulative techniques I was told that they did but only "when no one was looking." This implies that perhaps there is a negative opinion regarding DOs in this area. I don't know whether this is true or not, but it has been my experience. A lot of people up here don't even know what a DO is. I have had to explain it to everyone I have talked to when I told them I was applying to osteopathic schools. But, the closest DO school to here is NYCOM and that is something like three hours away. I would imagine that the closer you are to an osteopathic school, the more likely there are to be practicing DOs and the more accepting people will be. Don't know if this helps or not...
 
How would you define "hostile"? What exactly do you mean by the term, op?
 
There are hardly any DO's in Massachusetts... Some, but they aren't that easy to find.
 
remember only around 5% of Physicians are DO's.....so "only" seeing 5 out of 100 is right about where it should be....
 
DoctorMom78 said:
The few DOs I know do not really practice osteopathic medicine and when I asked one of them whether or not they used manipulative techniques I was told that they did but only "when no one was looking." This implies that perhaps there is a negative opinion regarding DOs in this area.
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Actually, the reason is not as sinister as what you may suggest or conclude. During rotations, esp in the primary care settings, I've met many DOs choose not to actively do OMM because they don't want their practice to become an OMM clinic.

The public is accepting of OMM more than DOs. Take a look around at the plethora of chiropractic clinics and natural herbs/supplement business. Also realize that low back pain, degenerative joint disease, and shoulder problems are VERY common conditions seen in the primary care setting. Add to that the millions who work demanding physical labor, and you have the perfect set up to do OMM everyday all day.

The problem is ... most DOs don't want to do OMM all day everyday. Hence why the "if no one is looking part." If a patient has a shoulder problem that is helped with OMM ... that patient will probably return for future problems. That patient may also refer their friends (who also suffer problems) to you. If their friends get relief, they will refer their friends. Soon, the majority of your patients will no longer be your typical primary care stuf but all "my back hurts" and "my shoulder hurts" and "my neck hurts" and "my knee hurts"

Insurance/HMO reimbursement is not an issue. In the Philly area, Blue Cross and Aetna do reimburse for OMM ... BUT if you can offer relief to patients, many are willing to pay CASH. (just think how much money is spent each year on OTC pain reliever, natural supplement pain reliever, chiropractic care, etc). And if you talk to ANY doctor who is trying to improve their income, it's all focused on cash-based procedures (ie., botox injection).



On another note: DOs do make 5% of all physicians in the US - but also, the distribution of it is not even. You're not going to find 5% DOs in Alaska, Alabama, or Washington State. You will probably find > 5% DOs in PA, Michigan, Florida. New York is a big state - and you'll probably find the same uneven distribution.
 
Orthodoc40 said:
There are hardly any DO's in Massachusetts... Some, but they aren't that easy to find.
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I've ran into several, I even know a DO Ortho from Boston. But I guess they arn't as popular as most other places. By looking at the residents in most of the Boston hospitals, they seem not to be to friendly of DO's. I plan on breaking that barrier after I graduate though.
 
What about Cali?

I havent really seen too many DOs in Cali, even with western and touro.
 
Still confused by what you all are considering "not friendly"? Are we talking straight out discrimination when applying for jobs, MDs snubbing you at the hospital, patients screaming "quack!" and running out the door, or what?
 
http://www.do-online.osteotech.org/pdf/ost_factsheet.pdf

If you scroll down, you'll see the number of DOs in each state. Obviously this has no bearing on what states are "friendly" to DOs. In my opinion ALL states are generally friendly to DOs, but there will always be a small minority of INDIVIDUALS that hold their own prejudices. Hell, there are people who don't trust ALL doctors. As I'm sure many of you know, as you go through life, you'll run into a lot of people who aren't very "friendly" for one reason or the other - That's life.
 
harrypotter said:
Still confused by what you all are considering "not friendly"? Are we talking straight out discrimination when applying for jobs, MDs snubbing you at the hospital, patients screaming "quack!" and running out the door, or what?
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I'm really not entirely sure. Like I said, I was surprised when I heard it, so I came here to ask. I think what she meant was that if you were a DO ortho surgeon competing for pts with an MD surgeon, or just competing for a position at a particular hospital, then the administration would view the MD's credentials with higher regard. However, in my own opinion, I think it would have more to do with scores on the boards than where you went to school.

But then its like the chicken and the egg....if you go to an MD school, will it better prepare you for the boards? Its all very hazy to me. I still don't know why DO's choose to do MD residencies (other than they have to, since there are not enough DO residencies for DOs). Any insight?
 
Well, an endocrinologist DO that I shadowed did a MD residency and MD fellowship. She told me that when she was applying (10 years ago) the residencies that were available for DO weren't as competitive and very few in number.

Also, I haven't checked the validity of this, but an internal med doc I shadowed told me that if I want to teach DO students, I should do a DO residency. I was surprised to hear that.

Other than that, I'm in the same boat you are.
 
mjos22 said:
I'm really not entirely sure. Like I said, I was surprised when I heard it, so I came here to ask. I think what she meant was that if you were a DO ortho surgeon competing for pts with an MD surgeon, or just competing for a position at a particular hospital, then the administration would view the MD's credentials with higher regard. However, in my own opinion, I think it would have more to do with scores on the boards than where you went to school.

But then its like the chicken and the egg....if you go to an MD school, will it better prepare you for the boards? Its all very hazy to me. I still don't know why DO's choose to do MD residencies (other than they have to, since there are not enough DO residencies for DOs). Any insight?
Click to expand...

I believe she was wrong if she really meant that they are discriminated in getting jobs. I know some DO's are discriminated against residency positions and maybe high academic spots for super competitive resdiencies like ortho in the allopathic world. Some high end allo ortho programs throw out DO's applications regardless of scores according to Orthogate forums. But as far as getting patients or getting private practice jobs, I've been told it is not at all a problem in any location.

As far as why DO's choose MD residencies, is for location and there are rumors that some specialty training are not as good training... (I can't say that for first hand experience though, so don't quote me.. thats just what applicants say)
 
fullefect1 said:
I believe she was wrong if she really meant that they are discriminated in getting jobs. I know some DO's are discriminated against residency positions and maybe high academic spots for super competitive resdiencies like ortho in the allopathic world. Some high end allo ortho programs throw out DO's applications regardless of scores according to Orthogate forums. But as far as getting patients or getting private practice jobs, I've been told it is not at all a problem in any location.

As far as why DO's choose MD residencies, is for location and there are rumors that some specialty training are not as good training... (I can't say that for first hand experience though, so don't quote me.. thats just what applicants say)
Click to expand...

So if a DO ortho residency makes you just as much of an ortho surgeon as an MD residency, yet its less competitive, why don't more people go this route? I mean in the end, your an ortho surgeon either way. There must be a catch somewhere....and as a current applicant, I've run into many questions like this 🙂
 
mjos22 said:
So if a DO ortho residency makes you just as much of an ortho surgeon as an MD residency, yet its less competitive, why don't more people go this route? I mean in the end, your an ortho surgeon either way. There must be a catch somewhere....and as a current applicant, I've run into many questions like this 🙂
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I think DO ortho is still competitive to get into also (am I correct?)? How many DO ortho spots are open each year?

Also the DO ortho spots tend to be in the midwest (wisconsin and ohio). I believe there are also doubts if the quality of some of these programs matches those of other allo programs.

I think DOs entering surgical fields like ortho, rads, anesth. is a rather new trend (again am I correct?) so you might not see as many DOs in these fields just yet?
 
You will never, ever not have enough pts. no matter what field you go into and especially no matter what degree you have (DO or MD). If that is what was conveyed to you, mjos22, I'm sorry to say that you have been incredibly ill informed.

Specialty residencies (ortho, rads, etc.) are competitive in the DO world as much as they are in the MD world. People choose to go through an allo residency over a osteo residency for a number of reasons. The main reason that more and more DOs are training in allo residencies is the simple fact that there are not enough quality DO residencies offered in numerous locations, especially in fields other than primary care. Would you rather shop at a store that sells 1 brand of clothing, or a store that sells just about every brand?

I can assure you that you will have no problem at all finding a job anywhere in the country upon completion of residency. There are and will be enough pts. for far more physicians than will be available.
 
I don't know about whole states being DO friendly/non-friendly. Personally speaking, I live in an area with an osteopathic medical school nearby, and there are a lot of DO's in the area. I'd wager that a lot of this fact is because of the DO school so close and people around here really don't make the distinction at all....so if I were you i'd try to practice in an area near an osteopathic medical school...if the prestige is an issue for you. I mean i'd like to say that it wouldn't matter to me, but I know it would......I have time to decide though 🙂

good luck!
 
It'sElectric said:
You will never, ever not have enough pts. no matter what field you go into and especially no matter what degree you have (DO or MD). If that is what was conveyed to you, mjos22, I'm sorry to say that you have been incredibly ill informed.

Specialty residencies (ortho, rads, etc.) are competitive in the DO world as much as they are in the MD world. People choose to go through an allo residency over a osteo residency for a number of reasons. The main reason that more and more DOs are training in allo residencies is the simple fact that there are not enough quality DO residencies offered in numerous locations, especially in fields other than primary care. Would you rather shop at a store that sells 1 brand of clothing, or a store that sells just about every brand?

I can assure you that you will have no problem at all finding a job anywhere in the country upon completion of residency. There are and will be enough pts. for far more physicians than will be available.
Click to expand...


Perfectly said... What I was trying to say, but I just didn't say it as well.
 
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