Students that were accepted to both allopathic and osteopathic programs

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

palbsss

Full Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2007
Messages
11
Reaction score
0
I was just wonder if there were any students that got accepted to both M.D and D.O schools. If choosing M.D over D.O, what was the reason? Was it the osteopathic philosophy, the quality of education, future career opportunities, the lack of public awareness of D.Os or some other reason? your comments are greatly appreciated.
 
I was just wonder if there were any students that got accepted to both M.D and D.O schools. If choosing M.D over D.O, what was the reason? Was it the osteopathic philosophy, the quality of education, future career opportunities, the lack of public awareness of D.Os or some other reason? your comments are greatly appreciated.

Honestly because unfortunatly the stigma still exists that DO is second to MD...I dont think there is a major difference but the stigma does exist
 
^yup. I didn't apply Osteo, but I'm pretty sure MOST would take any accredited MD program over DO anyday. No offense to Osteos though, I'm sure the education is just as good. But yes, the stigma still exists, which is unfortunate.
 
In my years as a premed I have only ever heard of ONE person who chose a DO program over an MD. The story was told my an adviser who claimed the person chose because she sincerely preferred the DO philosophy over MD.
 
In my years as a premed I have only ever heard of ONE person who chose a DO program over an MD. The story was told my an adviser who claimed the person chose because she sincerely preferred the DO philosophy over MD.

It probably depends on your institution for undergrad, I am not at an ivy league type of place, so we have a couple of students every year who truely decide on osteopathy early on (which kills the gunner types). Usually because their pcp was a DO. But I really couldnt imagine too many people from places like harvard or stanford dead set on it.
 
I have been accepted to MD and DO schools. I am torn because my boyfriend is at AZCOM and really wants me to go there, but I would rather go elsewhere. He is tested several times a week and is basically in class or lab 8-5 everyday, except Friday which is 8-3. In my opinion, DO programs leave you with less time to study (if you go to all the classes) and the constant testing makes things a little overbearing. My pre-med advisor, friends and co-workers are all telling me to go MD because of the stigma of being a DO. I also don't feel to thrilled about writing the COMLEX and USMLE to get a decent residency!! I think that it will be hard to make the decision to go elsewhere because I really want to be with him. My other acceptance is Jefferson and I am hoping to hear Dartmouth's decision next week.
 
In my years as a premed I have only ever heard of ONE person who chose a DO program over an MD. The story was told my an adviser who claimed the person chose because she sincerely preferred the DO philosophy over MD.
I know of 3 people who chose DO over MD. DO isn't for everyone ...
 
Id take the path of least resistance; MD. As of now, Ill be heading to a DO school in August. If Im accepted off the wait-list at WSU you can be sure Ill fill the seat.

Both programs, in my opinion, provide you with the tools necessary to be an excellent physician. There are more hoops one has to jump through as a DO and if Im able to make my life SLIGHTLY easier . . .
 
I was accepted at UMDNJ-SOM back in November and was pretty much resigned to going there since I got waitlisted post-interview at two M.D. schools (GWU and UMDNJ-NJMS). However, I just found out yesterday that I got into UMDNJ-RWJ! So now I have a decision to make...

I honestly love D.O. philosophy and think that it just adds one more tool to your belt (which is never a bad thing). However, I'm also aware of the stigma that still exists (which I don't feel like dealing with), and every person that has been my mentor through the whole med school process is pushing me to go for M.D.

Sooo... when it comes to making the final decision, I'll probably base it on my "vibes" that I get from each school and the students there, proximity to where I live, curriculum, etc. It will be more of a decision about the school itself rather than allopathy or osteopathy.

Good luck to everyone else!!!
 
I chose MD over DO but I was torn. I liked the DO philosophy and still wish I was learning OMM. I chose my school (MD) because they had a really good loan repayment program associated with it. I also was told by many individuals to choose MD because it will open more possibilities (should I choose a competitive residency). I've pretty much decided against using the loan repayment program so that reason was pulled away. But there is still the option of a competitive residency where it would be more difficult at the osteopathic program. The other reasons I chose my school had more to do with the differences between the two schools, not the differences between MD and DO. My school has a lot more technological capabilities and they've made it easy to skip lecture where the other school makes it a little more difficult. There are other little things too.
 
I know of 3 people who chose DO over MD. DO isn't for everyone ...

No, it certainly is not. I do not plan on applying to any DO programs, but I'm sure people like the girl mentioned above that preferred the philosophy will still make fantastic doctors.
 
The president of the AMSA is a DO (for the first time ever, actually).

He wrote in an article about a girl accepting a DO school over Baylor.

Personally I think thats nuts, but hey, I never had the personal experience with a DO that she had when she was growing up.
 
I was accepted to both. I will be attending an MD school. I had several reasons for choosing the MD school over the DO one. First, I liked the allopathic school better. I am more comfortable with thier teaching method which is lectures. The Osteopathic school I was accepted to was PBL, which I heard is wonderful, but it concerned me. I also feel that I have better opportunities as an MD then a DO. I know DO's can specialize in anything they want, but it is much more difficult. Lastly, there is still a negative stigma that goes with being a DO.
 
nowadays, it's not so much about the philosophy of DO's, since a lot of MD schools use similar philosophies, just maybe not as hollistically. It definitely was what first attracted me to it.
Now it's more about choosing a school that suits you best or that you feel will prepare you better. That is how I chose.
 
I was accepted to both. I will be attending an MD school. I had several reasons for choosing the MD school over the DO one. First, I liked the allopathic school better. I am more comfortable with thier teaching method which is lectures. The Osteopathic school I was accepted to was PBL, which I heard is wonderful, but it concerned me. I also feel that I have better opportunities as an MD then a DO. I know DO's can specialize in anything they want, but it is much more difficult. Lastly, there is still a negative stigma that goes with being a DO.

I forgot to mention that the allopathic school tution was about half the osteopthic as well. Not a really big deal but it was still a factor.
 
My girlfriend goes to a DO school, and is getting a perfectly good education. That being said, a stigma still exists, especially at higher program (I shadow a EP at MGH, and when I asked about DOs he actually rolled his eyes...). I've talked to a bunch of MDs I know about the MD/DO issue, and they say it really comes down to the quality of the students. DO schools are easier to get into, which means, GENERALLY, they accept less qualified (and therefore less intelligent) individuals. THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT THEY'RE NOT SMART, ITS JUST THAT GETTING TOP OF YOUR CLASS AT DO SCHOOL IS EASIER (people say that about less impressive MD schools also). However, I have to agree. I like a lot of her classmates, they are perfectly nice and reasonable people. However, they aren't that "impressive" (I can't think of the right word). My girlfriend wanted to go to DO school from the beginning, but is slowly realizing now that it does put her at a disadvantage for good residencies (she's looking to do EM in NYC). Anyone who graduates from a DO school is going to be a perfectly good physician/surgeon, and will be able to diagnose whatever it is that bring their patients in to see them, but that person will also get less respect from MD collegues (the MD community as a whole).
 
In my years as a premed I have only ever heard of ONE person who chose a DO program over an MD. The story was told my an adviser who claimed the person chose because she sincerely preferred the DO philosophy over MD.

Having spent the last two years dating a DO student (see above post) I find this a little laughable. My gf goes to a very well respected DO school, and grads from her school have gone onto well-respected allopathic residencies. I've asked her about the "DO philosophy" and the way she explains it the philosophy is about treating the whole person.
A) This philosophy is all well and good on paper, but the lectures they have gotten on "treating the whole person" are no different from the lectures MD students get on treating the patient.
B) This philosophy only works well in certain situations (someone who needs surgery/chemo needs surgery/chemo).
C) There seems to be a lack of evidence for the benefits of OMM/Cranial. I asked a classmate of hers about this, and she responded "Well, we would like to do studies, because evidence based medicine is good, but some times it is too hard to do a real study, and OMM seems to work."

Like I said in my above post, my gf's classmates are nice people, and are getting a good education. That being said, they're not getting a great education, and the profession has a huge chip on their shoulder about the whole DO/MD thing.
 
.... DO schools are easier to get into, which means, GENERALLY, they accept less qualified (and therefore less intelligent) individuals. THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT THEY'RE NOT SMART, ITS JUST THAT GETTING TOP OF YOUR CLASS AT DO SCHOOL IS EASIER (people say that about less impressive MD schools also).

Less intelligent? Not impressive?

Med school (DO or MD) is hard.

Getting to the top of the class at Podunk School of Allopathic Medicine or Nowheresville College of Oseopathic Medicine is a HUGE accomplishment.

The USMLE and COMLEX are the great equalizer.
 
I applied D.O. knowing full well that I would be happy going to an osteopathic medical school. Having been accepted to both D.O. and M.D. schools, I decided to go the M.D. route b/c as others have said, there is still the unfortunate stigma. Also, I have found myself in the annoying position many times this process having to explain osteopathy to many people. Personally, I found it rather burdensome. As an M.D., however, I will consider learning OMM b/c I'm interested in it.
 
Less intelligent? Not impressive?

Med school (DO or MD) is hard.

Getting to the top of the class at Podunk School of Allopathic Medicine or Nowheresville College of Oseopathic Medicine is a HUGE accomplishment.

The USMLE and COMLEX are the great equalizer.

Yes and no. Med school is hard, and you have to pass the same exams to get your license. However, getting top of your class in a school with an average GPA/MCAT of 3.75 and 36 is harder than it is at a school with a 3.2 and a 24 (or at least residency directors make that assumption).
The USMLE and the COMPLEX are equalizers, if you blow them to pieces you can go lots of places, regardless of your initials. However, an MD student with a 216 (national average) on the USMLE will probably get into a "better" residency than a DO with a 216.
Its easier to get into med school with a 3.4 from Harvard that it is with a 3.4 from an unknown school, and it is harder to get into residency with a 216 from a DO school than from an MD school.
 
I'm gonna graciously bow out of this thread for a bit. We've hashed and rehashed many of the DO/MD, DO w/high USMLE V MD w/high USMLE, DO schools are easier topics many times on SDN.

I am a non-trad feamle who is 99.9% certain that DO is the best choice for my situation. I am grateful for the opportunities osteopathic medical schools provide.
 
I think the stigma exists only in doctors who have been practicing a while. Whether it continues or not, is up to the next generation of physicians(all of us). I feel that most current medical students feel there is less of a difference between DOs and MDs due to the fact that they have more exposure to both.
 
I personally know several physicians who picked DO over MD, and had the opportunity to do great residencies at places like Penn, Columbia, etc and were glad that they picked DO over MD. It really depends on the students. If a student is really concerned about feeling unequal compared to an allopathic student, then sure, why not go to a school which will make you feel comfortable.

I have also heard that a lot of the MD/DO issues are the greatest among students. It's not as bad once people graduate and are actually practicing medicine.

My bf (an MD) is a first year resident, and his hospital actually had a DO come and have the interns observe osteopathic manipulation a few times. So again, DO's are respected for what they do.

And finally, its sad to think that despite the advancement DO as a profession has made, the stigma that allopaths held against them back in the early 1900s is still present. Shows how rigid society is when it comes to breaking down stigma.
 
when i interviewed at the university of washington, i had a conversation with one of the excom members about MD vs. DO, since i am contemplating both. he said, as an old school MD, that he readily welcomes DO's into his residency program. as the director, he will take an enthusiastic DO anyday over an apathetic MD. the DO students he has had a chance to work with have been wonderful, very well prepared, and hungry to learn. it could be because they are trying to overcome a previous stigma, but i hardly think it goes along the lines with a previous poster saying they are "less intelligent." anatomy is anatomy, histology is histology, whether you are going to an osteopathic or allopathic school.
 
Unfortunatly there will always be a stigma...its sad because one should not exist I mean come on the differences are so small they can almost be negated...where the major difference comes in is in residency placement and because allophatic residencies are more desired there will be a continued stigma against osteopathic applicants
 
they accept less qualified (and therefore less intelligent) individuals.

I know you're making a big generalization, and I'm not flaming at all, but I kinda wonder about just how synonymous these two phrases are sometimes.
 
I was just wonder if there were any students that got accepted to both M.D and D.O schools. If choosing M.D over D.O, what was the reason? Was it the osteopathic philosophy, the quality of education, future career opportunities, the lack of public awareness of D.Os or some other reason? your comments are greatly appreciated.

I know of a guy here that chose COMP over UCSD because it was closer to his family. Apparently he felt everything else was equal.
 
I have been accepted to MD and DO schools. I am torn because my boyfriend is at AZCOM and really wants me to go there, but I would rather go elsewhere. He is tested several times a week and is basically in class or lab 8-5 everyday, except Friday which is 8-3. In my opinion, DO programs leave you with less time to study (if you go to all the classes) and the constant testing makes things a little overbearing. My pre-med advisor, friends and co-workers are all telling me to go MD because of the stigma of being a DO. I also don't feel to thrilled about writing the COMLEX and USMLE to get a decent residency!! I think that it will be hard to make the decision to go elsewhere because I really want to be with him. My other acceptance is Jefferson and I am hoping to hear Dartmouth's decision next week.

Not all DO schools use the kind of testing schedule that AZCOM and CCOM use. They are infamous for this.
 
but that person will also get less respect from MD collegues (the MD community as a whole).

I'd have to disagree with you. Maybe you could say that about the general U.S. population because many are unfamiliar with the D.O. and may be like "what the hell is that??". But in the MEDICAL profession, I don't think that is true. Of course, there are people who will respect others less for multiple reasons, being a D.O. could be one of those reasons. But every single doctor I have talked to (more MDs than DOs actually) have told me that the initials don't matter, they all work together, and you are a doctor. Plus I live in a state where there aren't even any D.O. schools, so we have less than other states. I volunteered at Shock Trauma at Univ of MD (the best in the nation!) and there were regularly about 3 D.O. doctors rotating on shifts (so about 1/3 of the groups of docs I regularly saw were D.O.s). It was awesome. If you are a doctor that is going to give less respect to a fellow colleague who is a D.O., you are also probably going to not be respectful towards nurses or anyone you consider "inferior"...which means I wouldn't want you as my doctor.

If I was accepted to an allopathic school as well, the only decisions that would sway me would be if it was cheaper and only taking one test (instead of USMLE and COMLEX should I choose to do that).
 
But every single doctor I have talked to (more MDs than DOs actually) have told me that the initials don't matter, they all work together, and you are a doctor.

I was told something similar. Makes sense to me 👍
 
I chose MD over DO but I was torn. I liked the DO philosophy and still wish I was learning OMM.

MD's can learn it to if they want to. 👍

As for a philosophy, well to me that's a personal decision. I can choose to treat people like a DO would treat people as an MD, just as there are many DO's who become surgeons, pathologists, radiologists, and/or other specialties that by their very nature are unable to treat the whole person.

There may be a cost factor involved, which is heavily debated among people who get accepted in-state at a DO but are faced with oos or private MD tuition. It all comes down to what your goals are.

I used to argue about stuff like this as a younger dude, but now I just feel like we really need to have one "title" for docs if the licensure and scope of care is the same anyway. This debate is so old and tiresome that I'm willing to just throw in the towel.
 
Just because someone graduated with a DO doesn't automatically mean that he or she will automatically be "nicer", "more holistic", "friendlier", "non-cutthroat" yadda yadda yadda whatever you hear about osteopaths. I hate it when people say this, it's NOT categorically true... there are nice people and jerks, MD or DO, and one can't generalize like that about human nature. For all intents and purposes, either degree allows the bearer to do the same thing. However, allopaths have fewer barriers to licensing in some states, have the advantage of no stigma attached to their choice of degree (many residencies still do not interview osteopathic students).

This esoterically different "osteopathic philosophy" is kind of bullcrap, and many DO's I know recognize this and are pissed off at their osteopathic association for perpetuating that "we're special" attitude. Yes, there is osteopathic manipulative medicine, but allopaths can learn this with CME. Otherwise, the treatment and approach to patients is (and should be) fundamentally the same.

The USMLE is *not* the great equalizer unfortunately, since school reputation and MD vs DO still are concerns that matter. For example, when was the last time you saw a DO resident at MGH or BIDMC? I'm sure someone's going to google one for me right now to prove me wrong... but the point is, the representation is largely NOT there from the osteopathic schools at the top medical centers.

The vast vast majority of osteopathic students have some flaw in their application: GPA or MCAT. Some might say a few points of GPA don't matter, but since osteopathic schools recalculate GPA based on most current grade for retaken courses, this can push someone up from, say, an AMCAS 2.9 to an osteopathic 3.5. MCAT scores are by and large lower as well. I'm just pointing out facts. Unfortunately many people in the medical field are well aware of these facts and perhaps lump osteopathic students as "less capable" than allopathic ones. This could explain part of the discrimination. These numbers don't mean a whole lot, since the sort of skills that are required for med school are vastly different from those to succeed on the MCAT and in undergrad. Osteopathic schools are fortunately more forgiving of tarnished records. Isn't it kind of telling that the most vociferous "pro-DO!" voices by and large have the poorer academic records? It's great that osteopathic schools give many people a second chance to become physicians, those candidates who otherwise would not be touched by allopathic schools. The difference really should end there though.

Med school is what you make of it. Every med student's experience at every med school is going to be different. One would have to be really gutsy to choose against an allopathic school solely on the basis of a "disorganized interview" or some other silly reasons I have seen posted here -- students make up med schools, and students largely shape their own medical education, guided by good professors.

If you want the smoothest path to licensure and a decent residency, the choice is pretty obvious. Otherwise, extraneous factors come into play that may affect just a handful of students (maintaining relationships, etc.).
 
The vast vast majority of osteopathic students have some flaw in their application: GPA or MCAT. Some might say a few points of GPA don't matter, but since osteopathic schools recalculate GPA based on most current grade for retaken courses, this can push someone up from, say, an AMCAS 2.9 to an osteopathic 3.5. MCAT scores are by and large lower as well. I'm just pointing out facts. Unfortunately many people in the medical field are well aware of these facts and perhaps lump osteopathic students as "less capable" than allopathic ones. This could explain part of the discrimination.

exactly the point, since it is easier to get into DO schools and since very few of the DO schools are associated with the cutting-edge research that most MD schools (even the lower tier ones) pride themselves on...it produces a perception of difference in the degrees.

the "philosophy" difference is a idiotic reason to choose one degree over another, especially since both MDs and DOs receive the same training other than OMM. if you think that you need a DO degree rather than an MD to prove that you can view the patient rather than the disease and to treat holisitically than you are a very naive about medical education and what being a physician, whether an MD or a DO, actually entails.

There is NO reason to choose DO over MD, other than family, financial, or geographical considerations.
 
There is NO reason to choose M.D. over D.O. either. In both instances you are going to get the same education. I have worked in orthopedic surgery for a couple of years (talk about competitive) and every surgeon said that it did not matter. There is one of the orthopedic surgeons that is a D.O. Yes, only one, but when you look at the percentage of M.D.s and D.O.s that is about right. I agree that the philosophy is a terrible reason to choose because there is no true difference. I know that my M.D. colleagues are going to be taught to look at the person as a whole and not as a disease. We, as pre-meds, are the ones continuing this craziness of inferiority and superiority. I applied to both programs, but as soon as I was accepted to my school of choice, I withdrew my application from all other schools, M.D. and D.O., and yes I had secondary applications at more M.D. programs and only one other D.O. program. That was my choice, and I have a lot of other medical experience besides just assisting in surgery. Do you have to have thick skin? Yes, but that is true if you choose proctology or any other specialty that others do not care to do. Look at the way EM physicians and surgeons get along most of the time, even if they are both M.D. I would equate the type of banter between M.D. and D.O. colleagues to the same type that is between any career that has equally qualified members completing the same job but by different paths. Look at the military. The different branches are always saying that they are best, but when it comes down to it, we have the highest regard for all other branches because we know that they get the job done just as well.
Oh, my father-in-law is a Pediatric Cardiologist (M.D.) and all except one recommendation letter were written by M.D.s. Try to look past this forum when making your decision. I don't feel that when you graduate either program and get through residency, which is competitive for everyone, that you are going to look back and say "I sure wish I would have gone ___ instead."
 
There is NO reason to choose M.D. over D.O. either. In both instances you are going to get the same education...

Look at the military. The different branches are always saying that they are best, but when it comes down to it, we have the highest regard for all other branches because we know that they get the job done just as well.

Since USMLE is a knowledge based test, if the education were the same you would see similar pass rates. US allo is >90% US osteo pass around 70%, about the same rate as FMGs.

In terms of osteopaths matching into Ortho: in 2006 555 US MD seniors matched into ortho while only 30 FMG/DOs matched (rates of 79% and 19% respectively). Taking out the IMGs DOs matched Ortho at 36%.

In terms of the NRMP only 67% DOs matched in 2006 while 93% MDs matched.


Your analogy w/ the military doesnt really work. Each branch of the military has a different functional role. Army is on the ground, navy is in the sea, air force is in the air. There may be overlap but the basic roles are very different.
 
Everyone so far has mentioned valid issues - a DO stigma, the difficulty of landing competitive residencies, (most likely) having to take the COMLEX and the USMLE. I applied to both MD and DO aware of the above and didn't have a problem with it at all. I saw OMM in practice and thought that it would be a useful trick to have in my bag. And who doesn't believe that the body has an inherent ability to heal itself? That issue should be mute.

That being said, who really cares about the first two years? We all (generally, maybe in different formats, though) learn the same stuff anyways, right? I was always interested in what schools did for their students 3rd and 4th years. Where are the rotations? How are students evaluated? Do students have to move around? etc. After interviewing at numerous MD programs in addition to a DO program (and I have also done lots of research in the all the DO programs), I believe that this is where MD schools really shine over DO schools. Most DO schools DO NOT have an affiliated medical center (OSU and the school in NJ is an exception). They do not have a VA. Or a children's hospital. Or a cancer center. Nothing. Students do one rotation here, another rotation there, with little to no continuity at the same hospital. Sometimes students have to move, even out of state. Just to do a single rotation. Or they might move once after 2nd year to do all of their 3rd and 4th year rotations at some (almost always community) hospital chosen for them. Most DO students don't seem to feel this is a problem for them. I personally wanted a medical center/VA/children's hospital/cancer center etc. affiliated with my school, with clinical faculty that are paid (most DO clinical faculty are pro bono; which is nice, but I don't think that is conducive to the best learning environment for students) and love to teach (makes you wonder where 3rd and 4th year tuition goes).

So for me, I chose MD hands down over DO. I don't care about the stigma. Or maybe having to take two board exams. Or having a harder time matching into competitive specialties (although I know that DO students have been known to have great matches - take the CCOM student who matched in Neurosurg at Upstate this year, although I think he scrambled). For me, it was the quality of the clinical years, which in my humble opinion are far superior at MD schools.

FWIW.
 
I must say, this has been a good discussion...so far :laugh:
 
There is NO reason to choose M.D. over D.O. either. In both instances you are going to get the same education. I have worked in orthopedic surgery for a couple of years (talk about competitive) and every surgeon said that it did not matter. There is one of the orthopedic surgeons that is a D.O. Yes, only one, but when you look at the percentage of M.D.s and D.O.s that is about right.

Hello, have you been paying attention? Osteopathic match rates to competitive programs (and at competitive med centers) are lower. If you choose that particular path, your likelihood of getting the residency you want is much lower. This is evidenced by the statistics in the reply to your post. It isn't about inferiority or superiority, it's the fact that quite simply, for whatever number of reasons, osteopathic students are overall at a disadvantage in the residency matching process.

No one is arguing that DO and MD colleagues would not get along. The MD is quite easily the path of least resistance, however.
 
Hello, have you been paying attention? Osteopathic match rates to competitive programs (and at competitive med centers) are lower. If you choose that particular path, your likelihood of getting the residency you want is much lower. This is evidenced by the statistics in the reply to your post. It isn't about inferiority or superiority, it's the fact that quite simply, for whatever number of reasons, osteopathic students are overall at a disadvantage in the residency matching process.

No one is arguing that DO and MD colleagues would not get along. The MD is quite easily the path of least resistance, however.
I don't want to engage in a debate here but I think most people are forgetting about the option of residencies that are open to DO's only. Here is the list of residencies that are run by my DO school http://www.pcom.edu/Graduate_Medical_Education/Residency_Programs/Residency_Programs.html and here are all of the DO programs in the country: http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/

so if its prestige that you're after....go w/ the MD, get a 250+ on your boards and enjoy MGH.....but to say that we don't match into those competative specialties is completely ignoring the DO match
 
I don't want to engage in a debate here but I think most people are forgetting about the option of residencies that are open to DO's only. Here is the list of residencies that are run by my DO school http://www.pcom.edu/Graduate_Medical_Education/Residency_Programs/Residency_Programs.html and here are all of the DO programs in the country:
http://opportunities.aoa-net.org/sea...KEN=945422 14

so if its prestige that you're after....go w/ the MD, get a 250+ on your boards and enjoy MGH.....but to say that we don't match into those competative specialties is completely ignoring the DO match

Right, but my impression from a lot of DO's is that many of these programs are pretty cruddy. and proportional to the number of osteopathic graduating students, how many of these residency programs are available? I'm not sure how much the availability of DO-only residency programs (which is an inherently unfair concept) makes up for the competitiveness of certain specialties. Ortho, I can perhaps see, given the DO emphasis on MSK stuff. Others like neurosurgery? ehhh... I'm not sure how much those (few) extra osteopathic spots will help.
 
I don't want to engage in a debate here but I think most people are forgetting about the option of residencies that are open to DO's only. Here is the list of residencies that are run by my DO school http://www.pcom.edu/Graduate_Medical_Education/Residency_Programs/Residency_Programs.html and here are all of the DO programs in the country: http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/

so if its prestige that you're after....go w/ the MD, get a 250+ on your boards and enjoy MGH.....but to say that we don't match into those competative specialties is completely ignoring the DO match

To add in here - these percentages comparisons previous posters are useless because you have NO IDEA how many people actually were TRYING to get into, (using the previous example) - ortho from the DO schools. Maybe 100% of the DO's trying to match got their spot. All you know is the % of people that matched that are DO's. Instatewaiter is using a faulty comparison.
 
Right, but my impression from a lot of DO's is that many of these programs are pretty cruddy. and proportional to the number of osteopathic graduating students, how many of these residency programs are available? I'm not sure how much the availability of DO-only residency programs (which is an inherently unfair concept) makes up for the competitiveness of certain specialties. Ortho, I can perhaps see, given the DO emphasis on MSK stuff. Others like neurosurgery? ehhh... I'm not sure how much those (few) extra osteopathic spots will help.
yeah I gotcha...and to be honest I have neither the time or interest to really delve into those numbers...you seem like a reasonable guy...as long as people can see that this issue isn't so "cut and dry" and understand that except for some prestige-based issues we are all afforded to opportunity to be quality docs....thats fine w/ me
 
Right, but my impression from a lot of DO's is that many of these programs are pretty cruddy. and proportional to the number of osteopathic graduating students, how many of these residency programs are available? I'm not sure how much the availability of DO-only residency programs (which is an inherently unfair concept) makes up for the competitiveness of certain specialties. Ortho, I can perhaps see, given the DO emphasis on MSK stuff. Others like neurosurgery? ehhh... I'm not sure how much those (few) extra osteopathic spots will help.

The line in the sand has been drawn!

I hear that they have a lot of rads slots too, i.e. the odds of matching a DO rads residency are better than MD's apply to allo rads. Feel free to argue or support, it's just what I read on SDN.
 
well...this discussion will inevitably decay into some version of "my dad can beat up your dad"....so...proceed.....

(not directed at anybody in particular...don't worry..)
 
Right, but my impression from a lot of DO's is that many of these programs are pretty cruddy. and proportional to the number of osteopathic graduating students, how many of these residency programs are available? I'm not sure how much the availability of DO-only residency programs (which is an inherently unfair concept) makes up for the competitiveness of certain specialties. Ortho, I can perhaps see, given the DO emphasis on MSK stuff. Others like neurosurgery? ehhh... I'm not sure how much those (few) extra osteopathic spots will help.

It seems DOs would rather go to and apply to an MD program despite the low rate of match in the NRMP.

Most recent data I could find was in 2005.
In 2005, of about 2900 D.O. graduates only 1344 participated in the DO match while 1,524 DOs participated in the MD match. So only around 45% of DOs wanted to go to a DO residency. For 2005, DOs matched into DO residencies at a rate of 92% while they matched into MD residencies only around 68% of the time. So despite the major risks, DOs still prefer applying to MD residencies. Yeah I am sure the DO residencies are excellent that is why most of DOs opt not to do them.
 
Yeah I am sure the DO residencies are excellent that is why most of DOs opt not to do them.

I'm not a DO student or interested in osteopathic medicine, but a lot of the DO grads I know opt for MD PGY programs because of location.
 
Hello, have you been paying attention? Osteopathic match rates to competitive programs (and at competitive med centers) are lower. If you choose that particular path, your likelihood of getting the residency you want is much lower. This is evidenced by the statistics in the reply to your post. It isn't about inferiority or superiority, it's the fact that quite simply, for whatever number of reasons, osteopathic students are overall at a disadvantage in the residency matching process.

No one is arguing that DO and MD colleagues would not get along. The MD is quite easily the path of least resistance, however.

Just out of curiousity, what's your view on an MD from the islands vs. DO?? Just curious. 🙂

BTW, good posts. I agree with you. I think even if you have a tarnished record, its better to wait and do a postbac or prove yourself then rush off to either the islands or DO unless that's a last resort. I also agree with what you said about philosophy etc. I think in the end most DO's I know don't use the OMM stuff. Very few seem like theyd use it.

I only know of like 5 people who actually chose DO over MD in the name of the philosophy excuse. Don't know how much I buy into it and I am not too much into the whole OMM thing which is why I have been stalling on the idea of applying the DO route.
 
All that holistic stuff is some garbage.....As if an m.d. is going to look at you as some kind of flu vector rather than a person who is sick. I could care less about whether someone is md or do, but all that stuff about philosophy is worthless. With that being said, there are plenty of amazing doctors who were just not good students and/or test takers. The vast majority of students I know who are doing D.O. are doing it for this reason. There may be a handful of people who got into both and chose D.O., but from my experience that group is incredibly small relative to the whole
 
It seems DOs would rather go to and apply to an MD program despite the low rate of match in the NRMP.

Most recent data I could find was in 2005.
In 2005, of about 2900 D.O. graduates only 1344 participated in the DO match while 1,524 DOs participated in the MD match. So only around 45% of DOs wanted to go to a DO residency. For 2005, DOs matched into DO residencies at a rate of 92% while they matched into MD residencies only around 68% of the time. So despite the major risks, DOs still prefer applying to MD residencies. Yeah I am sure the DO residencies are excellent that is why most of DOs opt not to do them.

One other very interesting issue related to this is that if a DO applies for both allopathic and osteopathic match, they are contractually bound to accept the osteopathic one if they're matched into that... that may cause issues for some people, I'm not sure what the issues are here.

The point is, DO's are people too! they are our friends! and future colleagues! Nothing wrong with osteopathy (except some dubious aspects of the manipulation thing), and you see DO's in the hospitals as well. the point is, the person accepted into both would face less of bureaucratic bull**** and hassle going for the MD. and the weight of this hassle and extra burden can be pretty big, depending on the circumstances. For the person wanting to go into a rural family practice thing, probably not significant.

If anything, we should be having a "students accepted into both MD/DO and PA/NP" debate... then I'm sure our resident wizard would have something interesting to say there 😉
 
Just out of curiousity, what's your view on an MD from the islands vs. DO?? Just curious. 🙂

BTW, good posts. I agree with you. I think even if you have a tarnished record, its better to wait and do a postbac or prove yourself then rush off to either the islands or DO unless that's a last resort. I also agree with what you said about philosophy etc. I think in the end most DO's I know don't use the OMM stuff. Very few seem like theyd use it.

I only know of like 5 people who actually chose DO over MD in the name of the philosophy excuse. Don't know how much I buy into it and I am not too much into the whole OMM thing which is why I have been stalling on the idea of applying the DO route.

Caribbean vs DO? Are you really asking me to rehash yet another one of SDN's famous debates? :laugh:

Well, if we're saying that *residency issues* make up the biggest hurdle for the DO, then it's pretty clear that the DO would win over the island school. All it takes is a quick glance at an island match list... I mean, it's fine if you want "Lutheran General Hospital" or "St Francis Podunk Community"... ya know? People who choose island over DO (if accepted to both), I feel are largely hung up on getting the MD initials. Licensing hurdles are about the same, if not worse for the islanders, as everything has to pass through the ECFMG, be checked a million times by state boards... and if you're applying for a license in California, good luck: only 2-3 island schools are approved for licensure, and even if other schools do get approved, there is NO retroactive approval for earlier grads.

MD>>DO>>>Caribbean, for ease of getting some particular medium-competitive residency.

Taus, can you maybe talk about what this "osteopathic philosophy" is like at your school? Are people gung ho about it? Is it as cultish as pre-osteos and the osteopathic association make it out to be?
 
Top