Students that were accepted to both allopathic and osteopathic programs

[turkleton]

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The quality of the education is probably similar, and as far as the application of the wholistic medicine and manipulation the DO residents I've seen aren't exactly bending over backwards to put it into practice. I'd go with the MD, because whatever your views are on the stigmata- just check out one of the oh, 9 million threads started on this- it exists and like it or not, there are career avenues open to you as an MD which can potentially be shut out as a DO. The fact is that many people view the DO route not as an alternate to an MD, but as an option of last resort forced upon a student by lack of allopathic acceptances- so they tend to extrapolate as to the academic strength of the candidate. So I think in terms of professional flexibility and to save yourself from a lifetime of explaining what those two letters mean and why you chose it, if I was in your position, I would without hesitation go the allopathic route.

 

[gujuDoc]

Caribbean vs DO? Are you really asking me to rehash yet another one of SDN's famous debates?

Well, if we're saying that *residency issues* make up the biggest hurdle for the DO, then it's pretty clear that the DO would win over the island school. All it takes is a quick glance at an island match list... I mean, it's fine if you want "Lutheran General Hospital" or "St Francis Podunk Community"... ya know? People who choose island over DO (if accepted to both), I feel are largely hung up on getting the MD initials. Licensing hurdles are about the same, if not worse for the islanders, as everything has to pass through the ECFMG, be checked a million times by state boards... and if you're applying for a license in California, good luck: only 2-3 island schools are approved for licensure, and even if other schools do get approved, there is NO retroactive approval for earlier grads.

MD>>DO>>>Caribbean, for ease of getting some particular medium-competitive residency.

Taus, can you maybe talk about what this "osteopathic philosophy" is like at your school? Are people gung ho about it? Is it as cultish as pre-osteos and the osteopathic association make it out to be?

Thanks for replying. I was just curious on what your thoughts were on that matter. I feel the same way but I know a lot of people who are hung up on not wanting to go DO that they think that Carrib is better then DO.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

Thanks for replying. I was just curious on what your thoughts were on that matter. I feel the same way but I know a lot of people who are hung up on not wanting to go DO that they think that Carrib is better then DO.

What are their reasons?

 

[Kuba]

The quality of the education is probably similar, and as far as the application of the wholistic medicine and manipulation the DO residents I've seen aren't exactly bending over backwards to put it into practice. I'd go with the MD, because whatever your views are on the stigmata- just check out one of the oh, 9 million threads started on this- it exists and like it or not, there are career avenues open to you as an MD which can potentially be shut out as a DO. The fact is that many people view the DO route not as an alternate to an MD, but as an option of last resort forced upon a student by lack of allopathic acceptances- so they tend to extrapolate as to the academic strength of the candidate. So I think in terms of professional flexibility and to save yourself from a lifetime of explaining what those two letters mean and why you chose it, if I was in your position, I would without hesitation go the allopathic route.

my views on the stigmata.... well, I'm not that religious so I would have to say that they are made up BS.

 

[evelkinevell]

I have been accepted to MD and DO schools. I am torn because my boyfriend is at AZCOM and really wants me to go there, but I would rather go elsewhere. He is tested several times a week and is basically in class or lab 8-5 everyday, except Friday which is 8-3. In my opinion, DO programs leave you with less time to study (if you go to all the classes) and the constant testing makes things a little overbearing. My pre-med advisor, friends and co-workers are all telling me to go MD because of the stigma of being a DO. I also don't feel to thrilled about writing the COMLEX and USMLE to get a decent residency!! I think that it will be hard to make the decision to go elsewhere because I really want to be with him. My other acceptance is Jefferson and I am hoping to hear Dartmouth's decision next week.

VC girl go MD, know you love your boyfriend and all; but going D.O would be a big mistake. If he loves you, he should allow you to do what makes you happy, not what makes him happy. If he were in your shoes, he would probably pick an MD over AZCOM. Go with your mind, its your future.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

There is NO reason to choose M.D. over D.O. either.

ummm, I'm thinking about radiation oncology and academic research. That's a really good reason to choose MD over DO. I cannot think of a reverse situation. DO is great for primary care but so is MD.

Like I said before, there's NO reason to choose DO over MD unless the circumstances behind the particular school make it much more appealing than the other choices ($$$, location, family, whatever)

 

[Taus]

ummm, I'm thinking about radiation oncology and academic research. That's a really good reason to choose MD over DO. I cannot think of a reverse situation. DO is great for primary care but so is MD.

Like I said before, there's NO reason to choose DO over MD unless the circumstances behind the particular school make it much more appealing than the other choices ($$$, location, family, whatever)

I would def agree that if you are sure you want rad-onc and big-time academic research....MD is the way to go for that

 

[Stimulate]

I graduated from a DO school and matched into a competitive allopathic residency position (from which I will graduate in 5 months!!).

I agree with the comments about the MD degree being the path of least resistance. I posted some comments in the pre-osteopathic forum as well so check that out.

The comments about DO schools accepting "less qualified" or "less intelligent" applicants are pretty unwarranted. Everybody knows that there are more qualified applicants than there are available seats in medical school. Everybody, or almost everybody, knows that the MD degree is a) usually less expensive b) more well-recognized and c) the path of least resistance. So it only makes sense that the upper tier of applicants would choose this route.

But does that mean that this "upper tier" will become better doctors? Absolutely not. I see many "unimpressive" MDs in my day-to-day duties but I don't make generalizations about their entire profession based on my anecdotal observations. When I see a medicine resident bloody someone's airway in a failed attempt at intubation I don't think "gee what an idiot MD". Nor do I make generalizations about the entire MD profession based upon social interactions with allopathic medical students. If I were such a person, what would that say about me?

DOs will have a lower pass rate on USMLE because we are not trained for that exam. DOs prepare for the COMLEX and the two exams are very different (I did well on both). There is a significant amount of OMM on the COMLEX which means less time to study for statistics and public health questions that are essential to know on USMLE. Would DOs make judgements about MDs based upon MDs having a lower pass rate on COMLEX?

DOs will have a more difficult time in the allopathic match because by definition it is for allopathic applicants. That is no secret. This will become more apparent to DOs (and FMGs) as the number of allopathic graduates expands. Do we Match successfully into allopathic spots? Absolutely but it does take more work than a similarly qualified MD has to do.

Lastly, do not choose a D.O. school because of the "philosophical" difference between MD and DOs. I cringe every time I hear that. It is way oversold by the AOA. The way you treat patients will be more about what kind of a person you are than what any medical school can teach you.

In summary, especially for the poster who has a boyfriend at AZCOM and is accepted at both DO and MD schools, go the MD route. Relationships are important but if for some reason things don't work out between you two, you may find yourself regretting your choice. AZCOM is a good school for certain but the path of least resistance is a wiser decision.

 

[FizbanZymogen]

I graduated from a DO school and matched into a competitive allopathic residency position (from which I will graduate in 5 months!!).

I agree with the comments about the MD degree being the path of least resistance. I posted some comments in the pre-osteopathic forum as well so check that out.

The comments about DO schools accepting "less qualified" or "less intelligent" applicants are pretty unwarranted. Everybody knows that there are more qualified applicants than there are available seats in medical school. Everybody, or almost everybody, knows that the MD degree is a) usually less expensive b) more well-recognized and c) the path of least resistance. So it only makes sense that the upper tier of applicants would choose this route.

But does that mean that this "upper tier" will become better doctors? Absolutely not. I see many "unimpressive" MDs in my day-to-day duties but I don't make generalizations about their entire profession based on my anecdotal observations. When I see a medicine resident bloody someone's airway in a failed attempt at intubation I don't think "gee what an idiot MD". Nor do I make generalizations about the entire MD profession based upon social interactions with allopathic medical students. If I were such a person, what would that say about me?

DOs will have a lower pass rate on USMLE because we are not trained for that exam. DOs prepare for the COMLEX and the two exams are very different (I did well on both). There is a significant amount of OMM on the COMLEX which means less time to study for statistics and public health questions that are essential to know on USMLE. Would DOs make judgements about MDs based upon MDs having a lower pass rate on COMLEX?

DOs will have a more difficult time in the allopathic match because by definition it is for allopathic applicants. That is no secret. This will become more apparent to DOs (and FMGs) as the number of allopathic graduates expands. Do we Match successfully into allopathic spots? Absolutely but it does take more work than a similarly qualified MD has to do.

Lastly, do not choose a D.O. school because of the "philosophical" difference between MD and DOs. I cringe every time I hear that. It is way oversold by the AOA. The way you treat patients will be more about what kind of a person you are than what any medical school can teach you.

In summary, especially for the poster who has a boyfriend at AZCOM and is accepted at both DO and MD schools, go the MD route. Relationships are important but if for some reason things don't work out between you two, you may find yourself regretting your choice. AZCOM is a good school for certain but the path of least resistance is a wiser decision.

Well said. This post should in theory end this discussion.

 

[Playmakur42]

X

 

[mshheaddoc]

Many DO schools might be located in rural areas but the residencies obviously are not. They might not be in the most desired of locations though and the actual amount of residencies dwarfs the allopathic residencies numbers. I was actually looking up some of the numbers on this for a project for SDN and I was astounded at the number of programs DO vs MD. I didn't realize there was such a gap. The good thing is many programs are becoming dually accreditted so maybe that will be a good things for DO's out there. Most of the DO programs in GS (and there are only 39 listed on the AOA website) are in bigger cities or suburban areas outside of large cities. Feel free to browse around on the site to see how many AOA approved categories there are.

As for if they are "cruddy" ... I'll hypothesize that due to the geographical limitations as there aren't DO residencies in every state this poses problems for those wanting to relocate to another area. Or maybe they did a rotation and didn't like the feel of the place or heard something bad about the program (which might or might not be true)/ There are many reasons why people won't rank certain programs. But with the limited amount of DO programs as well as the restrictions placed on those who try to match in both allo and osteo matches (if you match in osteo match you automatically get dropped from allo match), many just choose to take their chances on all MD or all DO residencies for various reasons.

 

[Tessy]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the point for DO to match into MD residency program? The initials after your name are still going to be the same.

 

[112258]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the point for DO to match into MD residency program? The initials after your name are still going to be the same.

Location, hospital, type of residency, etc...keeps more options open.

 

[Nickelpennykid]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the point for DO to match into MD residency program? The initials after your name are still going to be the same.

There are relativly few DO residencies in some of the specialities. Also, if a DO wants to do a certian type of residency in a geographic area that does not have an AOA program, then the only option is an MD residency. Some MD residencies are better compared to the DO residencies, so some competative DO's try to get them.

 

[Stimulate]

Location, hospital, type of residency, etc...keeps more options open.

Medical students consistently rank "location" as the most important factor in choosing a residency.

Also, in some specialties there are, in my opinion, better training programs in the allopathic world. It only makes sense right because a lot of the DO residencies are at community hospitals where you may not see the "zebras". For primary care, and some subspecialties, community hospitals are probably adequate for training.

Also, there are more opportunities for fellowship training in the allopathic world, which may keep more doors open for careers in academics.

 

[mshheaddoc]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the point for DO to match into MD residency program? The initials after your name are still going to be the same.

You're right the initials don't matter but as stated so far quite a few times in the last few posts, its all about locations, how a program is set up (this varies across hospitals), benefits, as mentioned exposure to broad type of medicine can be limited in community hospitals, as well as if you want a fellowship you want to get as much exposure as you can.

By going to an MD residency you aren't trying to change your initials to a MD if you are a DO. You are trying to get the best training out there which is why it will be nice if more programs start becoming dually accredited to open more spots for DO's for the osteopathic match. But it probably won't happen at a rate that will significantly alter the osteopathic match anytime soon (which is why some are calling for a "joint" match).

 

[VCgirl]

Thanks for the advice evelkinevell and stimulate. You should tell that to my BF!! 🙂 I know what I should do as far as my career is concerned. It makes me feel better hearing to enter the MD program from someone who has already through matching, ect from a DO program. It's a hard decision for personal reasons.

 

[Mr. Itchy]

If my chance of going into the field of medicine I want to is in the LEAST bit impacted by the fact that I go to a DO school, it is not worth the risk to me. DO's make great GP's but honestly there isn't much difference between a DO anesthesiologist's care and an MD one, other than the DO had much higher chance of not being accepted to the residency.

 

[Mr. Itchy]

I have been accepted to MD and DO schools. I am torn because my boyfriend is at AZCOM and really wants me to go there, but I would rather go elsewhere. He is tested several times a week and is basically in class or lab 8-5 everyday, except Friday which is 8-3. In my opinion, DO programs leave you with less time to study (if you go to all the classes) and the constant testing makes things a little overbearing. My pre-med advisor, friends and co-workers are all telling me to go MD because of the stigma of being a DO. I also don't feel to thrilled about writing the COMLEX and USMLE to get a decent residency!! I think that it will be hard to make the decision to go elsewhere because I really want to be with him. My other acceptance is Jefferson and I am hoping to hear Dartmouth's decision next week.

I hate to sound like an ass but boyfriends/girlfriends are ephemeral. If you want to go DO due to the philosophy, do it. If not, you should go MD.

If a crap load of MARRIAGES end because of medical school how many boyfriend/girlfriend stints end? Its just the truth of the matter.

 

[Wizard of Oz]

If anything, we should be having a "students accepted into both MD/DO and PA/NP" debate... then I'm sure our resident wizard would have something interesting to say there 😉

lol I didn't read this part the first time I read it. anon is bringing up by love for Physician's Associates.

Indeed, I am a defender of PA's (and a PA school reject myself) as far as their basic clinical ability and relative tuition/specialty options are concerned, but I cannot say the same thing about NP's in my state. It so happens, however, that my college's PA school is rather well-repected nationally compared to its medical school; and the students are quite good as a whole. This explains why I have preferred to see them for primary care needs on most occasions.

As for DO, it wasn't an option that I ever considered. I wasn't interested in primary care or OMM, so I didn't see it as an interesting career move when I decided on medicine. Since then, I have learned a lot more (thanks mostly to SDN), but I'm of the opinion that the school is expensive enough to avoid either route as a backup for the other.