Step 1 Scores

WuMedic · Mar 7, 2011

So after going to all of my interviews, I find that a lot of schools report their average step 1 scores. My question is this:

How did every single school I interview at report a score that was higher than the national average? I applied to a good mix of state schools and private schools so it wasn't like I shot for just top 20 schools (whatever that means) and I interviewed at some state schools that some probably have never heard of! So how is it that every school has a Step 1 score above the national average!

Also, is there a site that lists averages for all of the schools? At this point I'm just curious as to where all the schools are that are below the average (and statistically speaking, there should be about half of them below the average...)

deleted74029 · Mar 7, 2011

I think I've heard that my school's average is ~216, so there are schools out there below the mean. Plus you have to factor in DO students and IMGs.

Pons Asinorum · Mar 7, 2011

ejay286 said:
DO students and IMGs.

/thread.

eli20 · Mar 7, 2011

Also these are self reported averages. So schools can choose to do all sorts of things when coming up with them like only counting passing scores, or give the average when only 50% have reported.

All in all I'm not putting much faith in any of these averages.

dbeast · Mar 7, 2011

Also, keep in mind each school self-reports their board scores. This means they might only count the students who pass (which takes away the very bottom scores), or there are a couple other tricks to artificially boost the scores that I can't remember right now.

Edit: eli we are twinsies!

Pons Asinorum · Mar 7, 2011

Wow. Jinx.

eli20 · Mar 7, 2011

Dbeast owes me a coke 🙂

WiseGuy1 · Mar 7, 2011

Well, I go to a "Top 25" school (again, take that for what it's worth), and our average is a 216 I believe. Granted we did completely re-vamp our curriculum a few years ago, and the administration seems to think the kinks have been worked out and our average should now begin to climb. With all that said, Step 1 is completely self dependent. I can't imagine a school not teaching you most everything that is important, but when it comes to preparing for the test, it's almost completely self-directed. I believe it's very similar to the MCAT, it's not the school you attended for undergrad, but how well you prepared for it. Step 1 averages for a school should not even be in the top 10 reasons for you to choose a school. Just my $0.02.

Lokhtar · Mar 7, 2011

ejay286 said:
I think I've heard that my school's average is ~216, so there are schools out there below the mean. Plus you have to factor in DO students and IMGs.

Pons Asinorum said:
/thread.

Nope, the stated average of 222 only counts USMD test takers. It does not include IMGs and DOs.

Pons Asinorum · Mar 7, 2011

Lokhtar said:
Nope, the stated average of 222 only counts USMD test takers. It does not include IMGs and DOs.

Fascinating. I agree with the OP's point - every school somehow seems to claim to be above average, thought that was the source of that little statistical curiosity. I guess I need to do a little research. Thanks for the info.

Torr · Mar 7, 2011

eli20 said:
Also these are self reported averages. So schools can choose to do all sorts of things when coming up with them like only counting passing scores, or give the average when only 50% have reported.

All in all I'm not putting much faith in any of these averages.

Yup. The interview group I was in during one of my later interviews all laughed about this cause we had all come to the realization that EVERY program we'd interviewed at claimed they were slightly to significantly above the national average.

Med schools think we is dumb.

slatermd · Mar 7, 2011

Pons Asinorum said:
Fascinating. I agree with the OP's point - every school somehow seems to claim to be above average...

Torr said:
Yup. The interview group I was in during one of my later interviews all laughed about this cause we had all come to the realization that EVERY program we'd interviewed at claimed they were slightly to significantly above the national average.

Med schools think we is dumb.

This is sort of like every med school saying they are known for their "early clinical exposure."

Pons, how was baltimore?

Geneticist · Mar 7, 2011

Maybe there's ONE school that's really sucking it up and bringing the average down. Maybe they're such an outlier that every other medical school in the nation could actually be "above average". My guess is Harvard or JHU...

Pons Asinorum · Mar 7, 2011

medzealot said:
Pons, how was baltimore?

Solid through and through, I thought. Won't find out third week in April, apparently.

DoctwoB · Mar 7, 2011

Step1: Send out optional survey to all rising 3rd years asking what step score they got.
Step 2: Students that scored well respond at higher rate then those ashamed of their score.
Step 3: Publish your school's step1 average (>8 SD above the mean!!!)
Step 4:????
Step 5: PROFIT

Pons Asinorum · Mar 7, 2011

DoctwoB said:
Step1: Send out optional survey to all rising 3rd years asking what step score they got.
Step 2: Students that scored well respond at higher rate then those ashamed of their score.
Step 3: Publish your school's step1 average (>8 SD above the mean!!!)
Step 4:????
Step 5: PROFIT

inb4underpantsgnome

SouthernSurgeon · Mar 7, 2011

DoctwoB said:
Step1: Send out optional survey to all rising 3rd years asking what step score they got.
Step 2: Students that scored well respond at higher rate then those ashamed of their score.

Your school gets your score straight from the NBME.

My dean actually congratulated me on my score the same day I got the score report. They compile the averages themselves; no "optional reporting" involved.

That said, I agree with all the above posts that the step 1 averages you hear and see should be taken with a grain of salt...

cowme · Mar 7, 2011

I mentioned this in another thread, but don't get too bogged down in reported scores.

The main predictors of your step 1 performance is your GPA and MCAT score. This should be pretty obvious. If you have always been terrible at standardized tests, going to Harvard isn't going to change this.

Other factors that (may) affect your score: Any curriculum that allows you to take step 1 after your clinical clerkships (ie. Duke, Penn), will put you at a HUGE advantage for step 1. Third year shelf exams are basically Step one questions on steroids, and are written by the same testmakers as Step 1. By the time you take 8 shelf exams, you will find any pharm, pathology question to be a breeze on step 1.

Talk to anyone at any med school after going through third year rotations and taking step 1, and they will agree that it would have been a huge advantage to have taken step 1 after rotations.

One other factor is how much time you are given off to study. 2 Months to study for step one will also give you a big advantage over a school that gives you 3 weeks.

Otherwise, I think that the medical school you go to will have minimal impact on your score.

Ok2Panic · Mar 7, 2011

WiseGuy1 said:
With all that said, Step 1 is completely self dependent. I can't imagine a school not teaching you most everything that is important, but when it comes to preparing for the test, it's almost completely self-directed. I believe it's very similar to the MCAT, it's not the school you attended for undergrad, but how well you prepared for it. Step 1 averages for a school should not even be in the top 10 reasons for you to choose a school. Just my $0.02.

QFT. I know it's futile, but definitely consider the possibility that where you go to most likely exerts a very minimal influence on your level of self-preparation for step 1.

SouthernSurgeon · Mar 7, 2011

cowme said:
Other factors that (may) affect your score: Any curriculum that allows you to take step 1 after your clinical clerkships (ie. Duke, Penn), will put you at a HUGE advantage for step 1. Third year shelf exams are basically Step one questions on steroids, and are written by the same testmakers as Step 1. By the time you take 8 shelf exams, you will find any pharm, pathology question to be a breeze on step 1.

Disagree with this. Shelf exam questions simply have a different focus/level of detail than Step I questions. Doesn't mean they aren't hard/harder, just different. Shelf exam preparation doesn't make step one prep a "breeze"

Additionally, Duke for a while at least was known for their low averages relative to the school's rank. This was typically blamed on the compressed basic science curriculum and the gap in time between when students take the basic science courses and when they take the actual exam.

MilkmanAl · Mar 7, 2011

southernIM said:
Disagree with this. Shelf exam questions simply have a different focus/level of detail than Step I questions. Doesn't mean they aren't hard/harder, just different. Shelf exam preparation doesn't make step one prep a "breeze"

Additionally, Duke for a while at least was known for their low averages relative to the school's rank. This was typically blamed on the compressed basic science curriculum and the gap in time between when students take the basic science courses and when they take the actual exam.

I'm with him. The only shelf I've taken that had questions even remotely similar to those on Step 1 was the one for family medicine. I don't really think having some/all of your clerkships before Step 1 would be much of an advantage. If anything, it'd just put you farther away from all those crazy (read: useless) enzyme pathway disorders biochem offers that you'll never see anywhere but a genetics clinic.

cowme · Mar 7, 2011

MilkmanAl said:
I'm with him. The only shelf I've taken that had questions even remotely similar to those on Step 1 was the one for family medicine. I don't really think having some/all of your clerkships before Step 1 would be much of an advantage. If anything, it'd just put you farther away from all those crazy (read: useless) enzyme pathway disorders biochem offers that you'll never see anywhere but a genetics clinic.

Well having taken step 1 after clinics, I definitely can't see any way I would have pulled my score without having done clerkships first, but who knows...just my personal opinion.

gravitywave · Mar 7, 2011

cowme said:
One other factor is how much time you are given off to study. 2 Months to study for step one will also give you a big advantage over a school that gives you 3 weeks.

i'd like to see some evidence for this. when we went to a system that gives four weeks for board prep, scores went up. many people even take them early, they're burnt out on studying and they want a vacation before clerkships start.

MilkmanAl said:
I'm with him. The only shelf I've taken that had questions even remotely similar to those on Step 1 was the one for family medicine. I don't really think having some/all of your clerkships before Step 1 would be much of an advantage. If anything, it'd just put you farther away from all those crazy (read: useless) enzyme pathway disorders biochem offers that you'll never see anywhere but a genetics clinic.

i always kinda figured this to be the case, but not having taken the exam yet myself, i don't know. it always seemed to me that the further you got from the basic science details, the harder it would be to relearn them all. I remember when they told us that the new Columbia curriculum would include taking Step I after the clerkship year, and i thought that sounded crazy, but they must have had some basis for changing it....

cowme · Mar 7, 2011

OK. So the moral of the story is that every school has the optimal step 1 studying schedule. Choose wisely

gravitywave · Mar 7, 2011

cowme said:
OK. So the moral of the story is that every school has the optimal step 1 studying schedule. Choose wisely

it is amazing how people will try to make the best out of a situation over which they have no control, eh?

TexasPhysician · Mar 7, 2011

Medical schools self report - which is why choosing a school based on their step information is not advised.

Medical students must take Step 1 until they pass. Some schools will only use there students' passing scores to make an average. For example: Student X scores 150 on Step 1 the first time because he didn't study and his mom died the day before (or whatever). Realizing that he could be kicked out of med school for not passing, Student X studies REALLY hard and now passes Step 1 with a 210. Some med schools will "forget about the 150" and only include the 210 to develop their stats. Shady because the failed attempt will hurt the student when applying for residency.

You would want the stats on only FIRST attempts on Step 1 and the percentage passing on FIRST attempts. Again, there is no organization that regulates whether medical schools are telling you the truth. No one collects and releases these stats nationally.

cowme · Mar 7, 2011

I don't really think having some/all of your clerkships before Step 1 would be much of an advantage. If anything, it'd just put you farther away from all those crazy (read: useless) enzyme pathway disorders biochem offers that you'll never see anywhere but a genetics clinic.

Meh. Not like anyone remembers those pathway disorders a month after biochem anyways. Sure, maybe you'll be a little farther from biochem, immuno, embryo, but these are all very low yield compared to physiology, pathology and pharmacology (which are all concepts that you continue to solidify in clerkships).

If this curriculum structure served as a disadvantage, why do schools continue to modify their curriculums to do this? And why has none switched back to the traditional curriculum of pre-clinic step 1?

But whatever, the most important factor is still how good of a test taker you are. Regardless of the curriculum, you will likely do well on step 1 if you are used to succeeding on standardized tests.

WuMedic · Mar 7, 2011

Geneticist said:
Maybe there's ONE school that's really sucking it up and bringing the average down. Maybe they're such an outlier that every other medical school in the nation could actually be "above average".

cowme said:
OK. So the moral of the story is that every school has the optimal step 1 studying schedule. Choose wisely

Geneticist, I was actually thinking if some of the lesser known schools were well below the average, but now after reading these thoughts I don't think that is the case.

Cowme, just like all schools are above average!

Thanks to everyone's thoughts on this by the way. This is the first thread in a long time I have started that has actually gotten good discussion going with people respecting each other! Good work guys! 🙂

(and I probably just jinxed it)

gravitywave · Mar 7, 2011

cowme said:
Meh. Not like anyone remembers those pathway disorders a month after biochem anyways. Sure, maybe you'll be a little farther from biochem, immuno, embryo, but these are all very low yield compared to physiology, pathology and pharmacology (which are all concepts that you continue to solidify in clerkships).

If this curriculum structure served as a disadvantage, why do schools continue to modify their curriculums to do this? And why has none switched back to the traditional curriculum of pre-clinic step 1?

But whatever, the most important factor is still how good of a test taker you are. Regardless of the curriculum, you will likely do well on step 1 if you are used to succeeding on standardized tests.

that quote you attribute to me is actually the part of Milkman's post that i quoted. just pointing that out.

i totally get what you are saying, and it does make sense, especially the part about people who are good at tests just being good at tests. I'm not sold however that the trend in curricula moving toward the later test date is based on the impact it will have on scores.... after all, there's no really good reason for doing pass/fail other than that the market (top pre-med prospects) appeared to be demanding it. that's likely not the case here, but i could see them doing it because they want people to take all their clerkships seriously, and not just the ones that they think they are competitive for based on their Step I score.

lockjaw · Mar 7, 2011

cowme said:
Other factors that (may) affect your score: Any curriculum that allows you to take step 1 after your clinical clerkships (ie. Duke, Penn), will put you at a HUGE advantage for step 1. Third year shelf exams are basically Step one questions on steroids, and are written by the same testmakers as Step 1. By the time you take 8 shelf exams, you will find any pharm, pathology question to be a breeze on step 1.

Talk to anyone at any med school after going through third year rotations and taking step 1, and they will agree that it would have been a huge advantage to have taken step 1 after rotations.

I'm going to disagree with this - the questions on the shelf exams were much closer to Step 2 than Step 1. There's a reason why students use USMLE World Step 2CK to study for the shelf exams, rather than using their Step 1 study materials. In a nutshell, Step 1 tests years 1 & 2, and Step 2 tests year 3. I'm glad I didn't have to wait to take Step 1 until after 3rd year, because that let me take Step 2 right after 3rd year instead, which I think in turn helped me do very well on Step 2. And I don't think my Step 1 would have been much different if I had taken it after 3rd year vs. 2nd year.

MilkmanAl · Mar 7, 2011

If this curriculum structure served as a disadvantage, why do schools continue to modify their curriculums to do this? And why has none switched back to the traditional curriculum of pre-clinic step 1?

It's one of the trendy things to do. :shrug:

In stark contrast to just about everything else that involves a change in medical education, med schools are surprisingly quick to jump on curriculum bandwagons.

Meh. Not like anyone remembers those pathway disorders a month after biochem anyways. Sure, maybe you'll be a little farther from biochem, immuno, embryo, but these are all very low yield compared to physiology, pathology and pharmacology (which are all concepts that you continue to solidify in clerkships).

Yeah, that's true about the biochem stuff, but I'm saying it'd just be *that* much harder to bring back what little knowledge you held onto. My Step 1 was rather biochem-heavy, believe it or not, so that's not a good thing. I'd also rather take Step right after studying all the horrible little details of each disease rather than how you actually approach a patient. I can't count how many times I've heard an attending say "Well, you can get x symptom with y disease, but does that matter? It won't change how we treat it." In other words, the unusual presentations and cases that aren't bread-and-butter get kind of glossed over.

Step 1 Scores

Full Member

deleted74029

Full Member

Full Member

That's cool I guess

Full Member

Full Member

Full Member

Dreaming about the lions

Full Member

Never Forget Tupac

Albert Clifford

Membership Revoked

Full Member

Full Member

Full Member

Full Member

cowme

Resident

Full Member

Full Member

cowme

fourth year

cowme

fourth year

Full Member

cowme

Full Member

fourth year

Full Member

Full Member

Similar threads