dollarbincommon posts again

dollarbincommon · Feb 5, 2004

Hi everyone,

If you can give me your input on this, I will really appreciate it. I know I've been saying this a lot. But I really mean it.

I am strongly considering forensic pathology. But sadly, there aren't any pathology DO residencies. So, that means I would have to consider pathology MD residencies.

That means, that I would probably have to consider taking the USMLE also. So my question is:

Is it better to go to a school that requires USMLE (VCOM)

or

go to a school that has many pathology clerkship electives?

After searching, UHS seems to be the only one with the most pathology clerkship electives (including forensic pathology). Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I believe it is 5 or 6 electives.

If someone can give me a very honest reply, I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance. 🙂

PS. I'm only considering DO medical schools. Does that mean I'm screwed?

Gibby Haynes · Feb 5, 2004

I would strongly encourage you to take the usmle no matter which school you attend. No you are not screwed! As far as getting into path it is not terribly difficult to get into as a DO, although since I have no interest in this field my knowledge is somewhat limited on the subject. I do know that the program at UTSW has taken several DOs from TCOM and are very open. In terms of AOA programs you are absolutelt correct, there are only a handful but I can't comment on how good these programs are.

LukeWhite · Feb 5, 2004

Dollarbin,

I don't know to what extent if at all it applies to pathology, but just to help in your general search:

Many allopathic residencies will accept COMLEX scores. Most of the disciplines that do so are the less competitive, primary care residencies, but it's true for some others too. It varies program to program, so your best bet might be to talk to individual program directors or DO students who have matched in allopathic residencies you're interested in.

Another thing to keep in mind is that USMLE pass rates for DO's are quite low. This of couse doesn't mean you shouldn't take it, but it's definitely not an equivalent exam. Lots more theory, lots more biochem/stats, and obviously no OMM at all. The general consensus that I've gathered seems to be that if you can't put in the time to study for the differences or are angling towards a program that doesn't care which cert. you take, it's better to stick with COMLEX.

Good luck in your hunting!

VentdependenT · Feb 5, 2004

Originally posted by lukealfredwhite
Dollarbin,

I don't know to what extent if at all it applies to pathology, but just to help in your general search:

Many allopathic residencies will accept COMLEX scores. Most of the disciplines that do so are the less competitive, primary care residencies, but it's true for some others to. It varies program to program, so your best bet might be to talk to individual program directors or DO students who have matched in allopathic residencies you're interested in.

Another thing to keep in mind is that USMLE pass rates for DO's are quite low. This of couse doesn't mean you shouldn't take it, but it's definitely not an equivalent exam. Lots more theory, lots more biochem/stats, and obviously no OMM at all. The general consensus that I've gathered seems to be that if you can't put in the time to study for the differences or are angling towards a program that doesn't care which cert. you take, it's better to stick with COMLEX.

Good luck in your hunting!

If you listen to folks with this mentality you will just end up screwing yourself. Going allo = take usmle. Unless you are doing FP, then your COMLEX will suffice. If you study hard and take the test seriously then you are going to pass it...being overtly afraid of it is completely ridiculous. It infuriates me when people use this low pass rate thing as an excuse. Make yourself as competitive as you can if you care about your future. That COMLEX score does NOT equal a USMLE score.

Do at least 2 out rotations in pathology. Make one of those a place with a name so you can get a good letter. Then get a decent USMLE score. Now you have your foot in the door. I have a pet boar.

BamaAlum · Feb 5, 2004

I agree with Vent, just go to the school that you feel most comfortable and take the USMLE. Don't be scared to take the USMLE! I know several 3rd years from UHS that rocked it last year. I am also interested in path, although not forensic path. I'm studying exclusively for the USMLE and taking it before the COMLEX. I will throw in a day or two of OPP and I should be fine.

As far as path electives go you can usually only do a couple in the same disicipline. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to do more than that anyway. Most path elective rotations will expose you to both anatomic and clinical path. Doing more than a couple is redundant and actually weakens your clinical experience a little. Very few places have subspecialty pathology electives.

There are NO AOA pathology residencies and if there were you wouldn't want to do one anyway since they would be at smaller community hospitals. Pathology training is all about seeing a wide variety of diseases. The more exotic the better. Aim for a large academic medical center.

Bull's eye · Feb 5, 2004

USMLE pass rates in my UHS class were 86%. Furthermore, I know two of the people who failed it, and they had the same story. Neither of them took it seriously. A quote from one, "I already passed COMLEX this is just a feather in my hat if I pass." The other, " I just didn't care after COMLEX and couldn't get motivated." Granted there are like 7 other people that failed, but I agree with ventd and BamaAlum. Take it where ever you go.

dollarbincommon · Feb 5, 2004

Thanks guys for the responses.

I had this idea in my head that I should take many pathology electives in my fourth year in medical school to get a good residency.

So, I guess about 2 or 3 electives in pathology is enough? Is this the amount of electives fourth year students usually take for their specialty of interest? Someone correct me on this.

dollarbincommon · Feb 5, 2004

Thanks guys for the responses.

I had this idea in my head that I should take many pathology electives in my fourth year in medical school to get a good residency.

So, I guess about 2 or 3 electives in pathology is enough? Is this the amount of electives fourth year students usually take for their specialty of interest? Someone correct me on this.

dollarbincommon · Feb 5, 2004

bull's eye

I absolutely agree with your post. I know myself and I know that I won't be motivated to study for something that is not required for graduation. VCOM requires both COMLEX and USMLE. and that's one of the reasons I'm leaning towards VCOM.

Do you know if DO schools help students who are planning to take the USMLE? I read in the forum that the focus on the COMLEX is very different from the USMLE.

Dr JPH · Feb 5, 2004

Few quick points...

It isnt that hard to get a Path residency.

A DO school will not prepare you for the USMLE specifically. Their objective is for you to pass the COMLEX. You will need to study for the USMLE as well as the COMLEX.

SPend more time worrying about getting into medical school and how to pay for it rather than what you will be doing in 5 years. Most people change their minds many times before they finish school.

BamaAlum · Feb 5, 2004

While path is not, and probably will never be, on the same level as radiology, derm or orthopedic surgery it is increasing in competitiveness. A few years ago, programs could barely fill. Those that did had a high percentage of FMGs. Applications for path positions among US grads increased several orders of magnitude last year and I think when the match results are in for 2004 the increase in applications will continue. So, don't count on path being an easy match for very long. The job market is opening up as older pathologists begin to retire and the recent shift towards "lifestyle specialties" is making path more and more attractive.

Gibby Haynes · Feb 5, 2004

In terms of AOA programs you are absolutelt correct, there are only a handful but I can't comment on how good these programs are. [/B]

Sorry, my mistake. There are no AOA path programs.🙁

Bull's eye · Feb 6, 2004

I can't comment on other schools or even the future of my school, however, when I was going through we sponsored the Kaplan lecture series at UHS for us and the surrounding schools (KUMC and UMKC both Allo programs) So we did get a crash course for the USMLE. On the other hand, the two people mentioned above took this course. If you think motivation will be a problem then I would really consider VCOM. Good Luck in whatever you choose.

supahfresh · Feb 6, 2004

TAKE the USMLE for all that is holy!! Do not NOT take it!

I geared my studying towards the USMLE and spent a few of my last days memorizing Savorese's book. My friends did the same thing and we smoked the COMLEX. then we took the USMLE a week later. I recommend the same. The only thing I would have done differently is hitting the BRS pathology book hard all throughout 2nd year and blowing off biochem, phys, anatomy. First Aid does a great job and I recommend memorizing every last tiny fact so that even the page numbers are burned into your brain.

Also, the KAPLAN course was pretty good. I was impressed with their lectures and test taking strategy. for example, they did not waste your time with the crap that everybody gets right....they focused on the stuff that people consistently get wrong.

Best of luck!

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