Consolation prize (eg loser's thread)

Geddy,

I'm sorry about you being unmatched.

I think the first thing you should do is meet with your Dean and discuss about scrambling for a vacancy.

This is from the www.sfmatch.org

Jan. 28, 2004 (Vacancies Released)

Any post-match vacancies which remain after the match will be announced on our Vacancy Information System. We only list vacancies of programs which have indicated that they will accept applications for their unfilled positions.

Applicants who did not match may begin applying to these positions by negotiating directly with the programs regarding any documentation that they require. If the programs ask you to forward your CAS file, use our Applying To Vacancies Form to request the distribution. There is a fee for this service.

When this fails, then you should sit down with your program director and ask him/her to evaluate your application to determine where you can strengthen it.

Good luck!

Best regards,
Andrew

Good luck to you GeddyLee! Here is an interesting article on alternatives if you decide not to try again.

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2000/11/13/bica1113.htm

I don't know if this will make a difference in the grand scheme of things, but let me just say how bad I feel for you and everyone who did not match. I met both GeddyLee and Odieoh, and I can vouch for them that they are both outstanding, normal and fun people who would be a pleasure to work with. I truly can't believe that you guys did not match, and it must have been a fluke in the numbers game that is the match. I sincerely hope that everything works out for you guys, as it would be an honor to count you guys as colleagues in the future. Considering this, I have confidence that either this year or next, ophthalmology will be your final destination. If not, I wish you the best of luck in whatever you do. Sincerely,
idoc

Thanks for the kind words idoc. So what are your plans Geddy? I am debating whether to go ahead and do the transitional year now, or put it off and do research for a year. I certainly think more research would be one good way to strengthen my application. . .but be that as it may, any research I do would have to be finished or at least well under way by this september when we would turn everything in again. I could just do research electives for the remainder of 4th year and have things underway by the time transitional year started in June.

One other thing that complicates my situation is that I was going to do a two month ophtho rotation in Brazil starting 3 weeks from today-- now I'm wondering if I should just stay here and get going on some more research, because like I said above, I would really need to get moving.

Do you have any recommendations about this Dr. Doan? Anyone? Any advice from people who were applying for the second time this year?

Thanks

If I didn't match, I would have proceeded with the internship. I would do either a preliminary internship year in medicine or surgery. This way I would have the flexibility of going into either a medical or surgical residency. It also gives you the ability to still apply for ophtho. There will be a year off if you match, but you can moonlight during that year and make good money.

You can always do research after your internship and reapply.

First, however, I would scramble next week.

I'd like to swallow my pride and participate in this discussion as well...in my situation, this is the second time I didn't match. I felt my application was pretty good, except for the board scores. I chose the research route after the first time I didn't match, which I felt would have helped my application. Interviewers seemed to be impressed by the research I was doing and my commitment, yet the result this year was the same as before. And yes I am a US medical grad (AMG, not IMG like I accidentally typed earlier) who graduated from an excellent med school. Here is what I'd like to know: should I even try again? Of course people have told me to not give up, but I cannot be trying forever, it is just not financially feasible for me. I absolutely hate giving up my dream, but is it realistic to keep trying for ophtho or should I go to IM...?

Oh, and I was fully aware of the possibility of not matching, so I interviewed at both trans/prelim and IM categorical programs (I still have more I am going to). My take is that I should rank the categoricals first, because a) at least I have a guarantee to finish up IM residency and possibly move into a good fellowship and b) I don't want to risk the possibility of not matching in ophtho next year + not having a guaranteed categorical slot to fit into. Of course, if I match in ophtho next year, then I have to drop the IM program, which would put me in a tough position too. Andrew, do you think my idea of going into categorical IM is reasonable?

I'm looking for honest answers, not answers designed to 'make me feel better.' It's tough, but I'm working through it. Thanks.

(p.s. odieoh and GeddyLee, though I've mostly lurked on this board for months, I feel like I know you though we may not have met. I can totally empathize with both of you as I have been through this before...now twice GeeddyLee, I think I saw a stat from last year that US grads have about a 40% match rate...so it is lower though not impossible. And odieoh, research has worked for people before, I know a few who have done it this way. I also know someone who didn't match last year, went to internship and matched this year. There is no rhyme nor reason; I felt I needed time off so I took a year off. Go with the situation that fits you best...hope that helps.)

One of the TYs in my program (AMG) didn't match for Ophtho and had an extremely difficult time making all her interviews during internship, completing her research project, and just plain not being distracted all day by doing little things to optimize her chances. She was upfront with the program director before she started, but there was only so much he could do to accomodate her schedule. Many of her other team members were constantly covering for her or picking up her slack. This was despite the fact that we had 3-4 months of electives too. I think she wound up not making 4 interviews and she didn't match a second time. I think she regretted not taking a year off. I heard she applied a third time and spent the year after internship doing research. Fortunately for her, she wound up getting a spot at the institution she did research. Anyway, I'm not saying you should skip your internship, but just wanted to present an example of someone whose internship year hurt her chances of matching the second time. If you know it's Ophtho or bust (like it was for her), spending a year doing research and having more flexibility with your time isn't a bad option either. Of course now all you slackers only have to work 80 hours so I guess it's not as big of a problem.

Stinky Tofu made some good points. It's difficult to apply to programs during internship; thus, you must carefully consider your options and plan.

I think the following are your options at this point.

1) Scramble and try to secure a position. This will be very difficult and will depend on how many spots remain open next week.

2) Do research for a year or two, and apply during that time. I'm not sure if this will increase your chances are not, and it will greatly depend on how productive you are during this time. I think this option would be particularly difficult for those who don't have strong research backgrounds.

3) Do a pre-residency fellowship in ocular pathology or sub-specialty of ophthalmology, such as genetics. This will basically be a research year. I think this option is viable and may allow you to work with influential faculty. You'll have to contact programs to inquire if a position is open. For instance, I?ve been told by one of my colleagues that Utah has an excellent pre-residency fellowship in ocular pathology. Several programs have these positions, but most are not advertised. Some are advertised on the www.sfmatch.org website. I think the best approach is to contact the programs individually. Out of all the choices here and if ophthalmology is the only thing you want to do, then I would encourage you to strongly consider this option.

4) Complete a preliminary year (not transitional) in medicine or surgery. It doesn't have to be a categorical position. This will also allow you to transfer to a different program or continue on a categorical track if allowed by your program. You'll likely have to save your 3 weeks of vacation to interview if you decide to apply during this time. Another option, is to first complete the preliminary year, complete your USMLE Step 3, apply for a research position/pre-residency fellowship, and then apply. This way you'll be able to do research until you're ready to start the PGY-2 year, and you?ll have time to interview during your research year.

None of these paths are easy. All require serious consideration and commitment. I also encourage people who don?t match to meet with their Deans and program directors to discuss their options.

Good luck and my condolences to those who did not match.

Hey Geddy,

I know exactly what you are going through b/c I didnt match the first time I applied to ophtho either. And I know you dont believe me now, but it really isnt the end of the world (although it feels like it). Apply again next year. I know the waiting sucks, especially the first couple of months, but the year will fly. Its only 6 months away until you apply again anyway.

I did a research year after graduating from med school, and matched at that program. I really think that a research year is best, because I dont see how doing an i intern year will help your application in any way. Sure, a spot may open up after you start your research year, which you wont be eligible for, but really what are the odds of getting one of those spots. They are pretty much taken b/f they are even posted on the web. Trust me I know. I am not an IMG, so I cant really relate to the other poster who has attempted ophtho twice.

Anyway, good luck

Question for Dr. Doan or any others who have some words of wisdom..... I did not match this year, but I was also very limited in where I could apply due to the fact that I was applying with DO board scores, and I think this was a big strike for me. My question is, if I take USMLE this summer and do well, in addition to starting a research project with an ophtho faculty member at a nearby allopathic medical school, and finishing this year with some ophtho rotations at a couple larger university centers and hopefully getting some quality LORs, will this make me competitive enough to have a realistic shot for next year? I know applying from a DO school is a minus right off the bat....is it something that can be realistically overcome? I am more than willing to put in the work and take an extra year...I just don't want to waste that time, if the odds are really stacked against me. I would appreciate any advice anyone can give, and please, lets not get into the DO vs MD stuff.....its tired, and I really could use some sound advice and not a flame war. Thanks.

Hi Do fo ophtho,

There's not many DOs applying, so it's difficult to judge what the general consensus is on DOs. I think there may be some negative stigma being a DO applicant, but if you do well on the USMLE, become top of your DO class, do ophthalmology research, complete ophthalmology clinical rotations with honors, and receive outstanding LORs, then you will be competitive.

Without a doubt, however, you must take the USMLE and score well.

Look at USC (a top 10 program). They have a DO amongst their ranks:

http://www.usc.edu/hsc/doheny/research/resident.html

Originally posted by Andrew_Doan
Look at USC (a top 10 program). They have a DO amongst their ranks:

http://www.usc.edu/hsc/doheny/research/resident.html

Click to expand...

I've worked with the DO listed on that page. He got into the program unconventionally, via one of the Armed Services. He happened to express interest in ophtho, so they had him train in it. Notice how that class has 7 residents while the others have 6.

Originally posted by Andrew_Doan
Hi Do fo ophtho,

There's not many DOs applying, so it's difficult to judge what the general consensus is on DOs. I think there may be some negative stigma being a DO applicant, but if you do well on the USMLE, become top of your DO class, do ophthalmology research, complete ophthalmology clinical rotations with honors, and receive outstanding LORs, then you will be competitive.

Without a doubt, however, you must take the USMLE and score well.

Look at USC (a top 10 program). They have a DO amongst their ranks:

http://www.usc.edu/hsc/doheny/research/resident.html

Click to expand...

Holy crap like 2/3 of them are from jhu/harvard/stanford. is it that hard to get into a top ophtho program from a "mid-tier" school?

Originally posted by exmike
Holy crap like 2/3 of them are from jhu/harvard/stanford. is it that hard to get into a top ophtho program from a "mid-tier" school?

Click to expand...

USC has the philosophy of recruiting only from top programs. Not all programs feel this way.

Hey DO, have you applied to the DO Ophtho residencies? (I dont mean this in a negative way)

The DO programs do not link their internship with the residency, so all I could have applied for this year was the internship. I will be eligible to apply for some of the DO residencies next year. However, there are only 9 DO ophtho residencies in the country...and of those 9, there are only 2 that I feel I would get adequate enough training to feel confident in my skills upon completion of the residency. I appreciate the suggestions guys....its nice to have a forum like this to ask advice

oops, didnt realize the site was logged in under another name.....my apologies to flash, whoever he may be.

If you get to the point where you want to become an Ophthamologist bad enough- say during your call nights as an intern- maybe you will consider ANY program. Other 4th year DOs are hard at work getting into those spots right now.
I don't mean to offend you but it drove me crazy when I met 4th year DO students applying for Rads (or other) who automatically dismissed the (few) DO programs. "I want Rads/Ophtho really really bad".... but not bad enough I guess. Your MD counterparts, if in your shoes, would not overlook such opportunities
Remember- after residency it doesn't matter where you trained.