How much does attempting to get into medical school multiple times help?

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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UnderMyDesk

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Let's take two people. They both have the exact same MCAT/GPA's. Other applicants with their stats tend to get accepted to medical school 50% of the time.

Person A decides he's only going to try applying to medical school once. If he's rejected, he won't try again next year.

Person B decides he'll try once. If he gets rejected, he'll try again next year. And the year after that. He'll stop at year three and give up then if he still hasn't made it.

Both apply to 10 schools each time they make an attempt.

Does Person B have a significantly better chance to make it med school at some point than Person A due to his multiple attempts?
 
UnderMyDesk said:
Let's take two people. They both have the exact same MCAT/GPA's. Other applicants with their stats tend to get accepted to medical school 50% of the time.

Person A decides he's only going to try applying to medical school once. If he's rejected, he won't try again next year.

Person B decides he'll try once. If he gets rejected, he'll try again next year. And the year after that. He'll stop at year three and give up then if he still hasn't made it.

Both apply to 10 schools each time they make an attempt.

Does Person B have a significantly better chance to make it med school at some point than Person A due to his multiple attempts?
Click to expand...

You are essentially asking if taking three shots at something will have a higher ultimate likelihood of success than taking one shot.

Uh, yes.
 
UnderMyDesk said:
Let's take two people. They both have the exact same MCAT/GPA's. Other applicants with their stats tend to get accepted to medical school 50% of the time.

Person A decides he's only going to try applying to medical school once. If he's rejected, he won't try again next year.

Person B decides he'll try once. If he gets rejected, he'll try again next year. And the year after that. He'll stop at year three and give up then if he still hasn't made it.

Both apply to 10 schools each time they make an attempt.

Does Person B have a significantly better chance to make it med school at some point than Person A due to his multiple attempts?
Click to expand...
😕

Gut Shot said:
You are essentially asking if taking three shots at something will have a higher ultimate likelihood of success than taking one shot.

Uh, yes.
Click to expand...

+1.
 
Yes in your example person B obviously has more of a chance because they are applying multiple times. What's your question??

However, the re-applicant has a SLIGHTLY less chance to get in the second time compared with a first-time applicant who has the same MCAT/GPA.
 
Gut Shot said:
You are essentially asking if taking three shots at something will have a higher ultimate likelihood of success than taking one shot.
Click to expand...
Nope. I'm asking if taking three shots at something will have a significantly higher ultimate likelihood of success than taking one shot.

Also, you do realize that the title to this thread starts with "how much," not "does," don't you?

Try reading a bit more closely.
 
If I buy 3 lottery tickets instead of 1 are my chances of winning higher?
 
I don't think the OP ever took a class in probability theory. Or common sense theory for that matter.
 
UnderMyDesk said:
Nope. I'm asking if taking three shots at something will have a significantly higher ultimate likelihood of success than taking one shot.

Also, you do realize that the title to this thread starts with "how much," not "does," don't you?

Try reading a bit more closely.
Click to expand...

Somebody got his feelings hurt...🙁

You're asking a simple math problem. You're asking if you flip a coin once (50% chance) is the chance of getting a head better if you flip it 3 times?

The answer is yes. Flipping a coin 3 times = 7/8 chance of getting at least 1 head.

Thus, the answer to your "how much" question is 37.5% chance better for the 2nd guy.

Case closed.
 
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UnderMyDesk said:
Nope. I'm asking if taking three shots at something will have a significantly higher ultimate likelihood of success than taking one shot.

Also, you do realize that the title to this thread starts with "how much," not "does," don't you?

Try reading a bit more closely.
Click to expand...

This is the same guy who asked if DOs ever end up being doctors. Here's the thread over in pre-osteo http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=947593 and the actual post: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=13022546&postcount=7.

Also in my signature.
 
Irish Football said:
I don't think the OP ever took a class in probability theory. Or common sense theory for that matter.
Click to expand...
I think. Rather, I know that you're too incapable of thinking out of the box to realize that I obviously asked this question because I was aware of the possibility of other factors that can confound mere calculation of probability. Such as schools being tougher on past applicants, etc.
 
Irish Football said:
I don't think the OP ever took a class in probability theory. Or common sense theory for that matter.
Click to expand...

You can take a class in common sense? Wouldn't it no longer be common sense?
 
UnderMyDesk said:
I think. Rather, I know that you're too incapable of thinking out of the box to realize that I obviously asked this question because I was aware of the possibility of other factors that can confound mere calculation of probability. Such as schools being tougher on past applicants, etc.
Click to expand...

Even if all reapplicants had a 0.01% chance of getting in, that still gives a 2x reapplicant a 0.02% greater chance than the same applicant who applies only once. Under no circumstances does someone who applies multiple times not have a better chance of getting in that someone who applies only once (assuming equal stats, equal application timing, same schools, etc).
 
UnderMyDesk said:
I think. Rather, I know that you're too incapable of thinking out of the box to realize that I obviously asked this question because I was aware of the possibility of other factors that can confound mere calculation of probability. Such as schools being tougher on past applicants, etc.
Click to expand...

So you thought that applicant A and B might have the EXACT SAME CHANCE of acceptance at some point because of "other factors?" I'm confused...
 
OP, could it be that you are wondering if it will count against you to be a re-applicant with stats good enough that 50% of first time applicants who have those same stats get admitted? Basically will the fact that you are reapplying negate the Potency for lack of a better term, of those stats?
 
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MedPR said:
Even if all reapplicants had a 0.01% chance of getting in, that still gives a 2x reapplicant a 0.02% greater chance than the same applicant who applies only once. Under no circumstances does someone who applies multiple times not have a better chance of getting in that someone who applies only once (assuming equal stats, equal application timing, same schools, etc).
Click to expand...

This.

MedPR said:
This is the same guy who asked if DOs ever end up being doctors. Here's the thread over in pre-osteo http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=947593 and the actual post: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=13022546&postcount=7.

Also in my signature.
Click to expand...

:laugh:

kpcrew said:
OP you sound like an idiot.
Click to expand...

+1
 
Freesia88 said:
OP, could it be that you are wondering if it will count against you to be a re-applicant with stats good enough that 50% of first time applicants who have those same stats get admitted? Basically will the fact that you are reapplying negate the Potency for lack of a better term, of those stats?
Click to expand...
Perhaps. Thanks, btw, for being the first non-bonehead to reply to me in this thread 🙂
 
UnderMyDesk said:
Perhaps. Thanks, btw, for being the first non-bonehead to reply to me in this thread 🙂
Click to expand...


🙂 You did kinda phrase your question wonky and didn't do a good job of explaining yourself afterwards.

I am not sure how to answer you though...it could be regarded in a "He really wants this" light, providing everything else in your application is solid. And it can also raise some questions. But you'll never know if you don't try. So i say if you want to be a physician bad enough, go for it.
 
Freesia88 said:
OP, could it be that you are wondering if it will count against you to be a re-applicant with stats good enough that 50% of first time applicants who have those same stats get admitted? Basically will the fact that you are reapplying negate the Potency for lack of a better term, of those stats?
Click to expand...
Yeah I think that's what he's asking. I don't know why people are confused.

If the first time applying gives you a 50% chance of getting accepted, is the second time around still a 50% or is it like 40%, and is the 3rd time still a 40% or is it like 20%? Will the adcoms look down on an applicant this year when 15 adcoms of the previous year didn't think he was capable of passing med school or wasn't a good fit for their school or wouldn't be a good doctor.

I think its hard to say because it depends on if your application is constant the whole time. If it's constant then I think it will hurt you for sure because when they ask what have you done to improve your application you can't say anything. If you get more clinical or research experience during the year off that can help you but I still think it will be negated a little by the fact that 15 adcoms last year didn't want you.
 
UnderMyDesk said:
Let's take two people. They both have the exact same MCAT/GPA's. Other applicants with their stats tend to get accepted to medical school 50% of the time.

Person A decides he's only going to try applying to medical school once. If he's rejected, he won't try again next year.

Person B decides he'll try once. If he gets rejected, he'll try again next year. And the year after that. He'll stop at year three and give up then if he still hasn't made it.

Both apply to 10 schools each time they make an attempt.

Does Person B have a significantly better chance to make it med school at some point than Person A due to his multiple attempts?
Click to expand...

bigDee said:
Yeah I think that's what he's asking. I don't know why people are confused.

If the first time applying gives you a 50% chance of getting accepted, is the second time around still a 50% or is it like 40%, and is the 3rd time still a 40% or is it like 20%? Will the adcoms look down on an applicant this year when 15 adcoms of the previous year didn't think he was capable of passing med school or wasn't a good fit for their school or wouldn't be a good doctor.

I think its hard to say because it depends on if your application is constant the whole time. If it's constant then I think it will hurt you for sure because when they ask what have you done to improve your application you can't say anything. If you get more clinical or research experience during the year off that can help you but I still think it will be negated a little by the fact that 15 adcoms last year didn't want you.
Click to expand...

I think it's the part where the OP says "at some point due to multiple attempts". Every year admissions becomes more competitive. It follows then that applying year after year with the same application will yield lower chances than the previous year.
 
Freesia88 said:
🙂 You did kinda phrase your question wonky and didn't do a good job of explaining yourself afterwards.

I am not sure how to answer you though...it could be regarded in a "He really wants this" light, providing everything else in your application is solid. And it can also raise some questions. But you'll never know if you don't try. So i say if you want to be a physician bad enough, go for it.
Click to expand...

bigDee said:
Yeah I think that's what he's asking. I don't know why people are confused.

If the first time applying gives you a 50% chance of getting accepted, is the second time around still a 50% or is it like 40%, and is the 3rd time still a 40% or is it like 20%? Will the adcoms look down on an applicant this year when 15 adcoms of the previous year didn't think he was capable of passing med school or wasn't a good fit for their school or wouldn't be a good doctor.

I think its hard to say because it depends on if your application is constant the whole time. If it's constant then I think it will hurt you for sure because when they ask what have you done to improve your application you can't say anything. If you get more clinical or research experience during the year off that can help you but I still think it will be negated a little by the fact that 15 adcoms last year didn't want you.
Click to expand...

MedPR said:
I think it's the part where the OP says "at some point due to multiple attempts". Every year admissions becomes more competitive. It follows then that applying year after year with the same application will yield lower chances than the previous year.
Click to expand...

To the OP, note the bolded parts. If you are going to be reapplying, there has to be something to your application package, whether it is increased clinical experience, research.. just something which can tells the Adcoms "I didn't make it the last time, but this is how I have improved since then."
 
Every year admissions becomes more competitive.
Click to expand...
Exaggeration. Sure it becomes more competitive, but not enough to make a noticeable difference on a year by year basis. For example, someone who had a low 70's percent chance of making it to med school in 2006 would have a high 60's percent chance of making it in 2010.

Does anyone know how much the post-bacc academic enhancer can help, provided one does really help?
 
UnderMyDesk said:
Exaggeration. Sure it becomes more competitive, but not enough to make a noticeable difference on a year by year basis. For example, someone who had a low 70's percent chance of making it to med school in 2006 would have a high 60's percent chance of making it in 2010.

Does anyone know how much the post-bacc academic enhancer can help, provided one does really help?
Click to expand...

Do you have data to support that statement?
 
UnderMyDesk said:
Exaggeration. Sure it becomes more competitive, but not enough to make a noticeable difference on a year by year basis. For example, someone who had a low 70's percent chance of making it to med school in 2006 would have a high 60's percent chance of making it in 2010.

Does anyone know how much the post-bacc academic enhancer can help, provided one does really help?
Click to expand...

Seriously? If you had all this data why did you some ask this question here then? We have attempted to give the best answers we can, challenging the reasoning behind the answers we have given will get you no where.

If you hang around these parts for long enough you will find out there is a vast difference between what you think should be the case and what actually is the case.
 
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You didn't state this in your OP, but wouldn't a re-applicant change some schools based on that first experience? And why only apply to 10 schools? Aren't your odds of acceptance better if you apply to, say, 15 or 20 or 25? And wouldn't one year later have more information, so although you're talking about the same person, that person's profile could have changed (slightly). And wouldn't some of the writing (PS, secondaries, LORs) change too?

And then, school's attitude about re-applicants vary as well. I seen some schools state they do not applicants to try more than three times, so I read that as "a better place to apply only once" because they look down on re-applicants.

So you see, too many variables can change to make this a clear-cut answer. In the end, you just need 1. And at the end of medical school, your name will still have MD after it, whether you go to a tippy-top med school or the lowest of the low (whenever that is).
 
All I got out of this thread was if I flip a coin three times I have a 7/8 chance of getting head at least once.

Thanks, SDN.
 
Asks idiotic question

Attacks those who call it idiotic

Pretends he was asking something else

Brings data to support irrelevant/known facts

Wow.
 
Seriously? If you had all this data why did you some ask this question here then?
Click to expand...
Is this even a question? Do you realize that the data there does nothing to help answer my inquiry?

My question was asking what happens to one's chances with each successive attempt at applying to medical school. The data in that graph or whatever it is says absolutely NOTHING about SUCCESSIVE attempts in applying to medical school. All it shows is what happens in SINGLE attempts at applying to medical school.
 
UnderMyDesk said:
Let's take two people. They both have the exact same MCAT/GPA's. Other applicants with their stats tend to get accepted to medical school 50% of the time.

Person A decides he's only going to try applying to medical school once. If he's rejected, he won't try again next year.

Person B decides he'll try once. If he gets rejected, he'll try again next year. And the year after that. He'll stop at year three and give up then if he still hasn't made it.

Both apply to 10 schools each time they make an attempt.

Does Person B have a significantly better chance to make it med school at some point than Person A due to his multiple attempts?
Click to expand...

Wow. They both have the same chance at the first application, right (identical stats being assumed)...but person A has a ZERO percent chance of getting in on a reapplication if they don't submit one. Since we know that some reapplicants get in, clearly Person B's chances are >0% on the reapplication.

So your question is essentially
''Which is bigger:

x + y when y>0
or
x + 0. "

Why did you need to ask that?
 
UnderMyDesk said:
Is this even a question? Do you realize that the data there does nothing to help answer my inquiry?

My question was asking what happens to one's chances with each successive attempt at applying to medical school. The data in that graph or whatever it is says absolutely NOTHING about SUCCESSIVE attempts in applying to medical school. All it shows is what happens in SINGLE attempts at applying to medical school.
Click to expand...

Keep it civil, ladies and gents. Professional forum etc etc.

Basically, the best answer someone can give without details on a case by case basis is this:

Each attempt you make at medical school will "raise the bar" on your application. This means you will have to improve your application further if you wish to impress adcoms in your time between cycles. Statistically, your chances also go down as reapplicants face various stigmas as well as minor competitive increases on a yearly basis. In general, if an applicant does not improve their application, their chances will drop significantly for following years (view the reapplication forum). However, if your application is improved, your chances may rise significantly (view Saveourpens MDApps).

Of course, as I said before, the quantitative and qualitative aspects of this are murky when generalized and assigning a percent chance would be inconsequential and misleading.

I hope that helps.
 
Seriously OP, you should try being less rude. You're not winning any points with anyone here.

Maybe you're used to more aggressive forums, but as a professional forum for doctors and prospective doctors, things here generally stay pretty mild.

If you're going to be a doctor, practice acting like one, especially when asking for help.
 
PreMedOrDead said:
All I got out of this thread was if I flip a coin three times I have a 7/8 chance of getting head at least once.

Thanks, SDN.
Click to expand...


Best post! I agree with IrishFootball, Freesia and others. I didn't bother to reply to.this thread initially. OP, you need to understand that sdn members serve to help not to argue. You seem to go into an attack mode when you receive criticism. As such, this thread becomes controversial. You need to stop riling those who try to help.

Sorry for being harsh.
 
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This is the same OP that thinks DOs are herbalistic healers that cant find jobs, lol. i really hope you are a troll...
 
Irish Football said:
That WAS NOT what your original question was.
Click to expand...

+1.

OP asks stupid question, everyone tells him how stupid he is, one person suggests the OP was asking a different question, OP thinks about it and jumps on board to seem less stupid.
 
[YOUTUBE]2Z4m4lnjxkY[/YOUTUBE]
 
moneytree said:
[YOUTUBE]2Z4m4lnjxkY[/YOUTUBE]
Click to expand...

^RIP ):

OP, I know what you're asking but please stop being a smart***** because you didn't ask it correctly. Let me try, "Is being a re-applicant looked down upon?" Easy. And has also been answered before. The way you worded it is in fact the same as the coin toss probability question someone else elaborated on above. Which is such a stupid question people are bound to make fun of you.

If you're going to ask something, do it right. Don't expect people to know what you mean and then be a smart***** about being wrong.
 
UnderMyDesk said:
Let's take two people. They both have the exact same MCAT/GPA's. Other applicants with their stats tend to get accepted to medical school 50% of the time.

Person A decides he's only going to try applying to medical school once. If he's rejected, he won't try again next year.

Person B decides he'll try once. If he gets rejected, he'll try again next year. And the year after that. He'll stop at year three and give up then if he still hasn't made it.

Both apply to 10 schools each time they make an attempt.

Does Person B have a significantly better chance to make it med school at some point than Person A due to his multiple attempts?
Click to expand...

so OP if you haven't realized why everyone called you an idiot yet, your original question was "if person A doesn't apply and person B applies, how much more likely will person B get in?"......

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk
 
OCDOCDOCD said:
If I buy 3 lottery tickets instead of 1 are my chances of winning higher?
Click to expand...

It depends on if they're the same number. Or if they're for yesterday's lottery.
 
OP, feel free to jump back in on this, it's a shame this thread seems to be dying...
 
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