University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center

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Xibalba said:
doheny....

Positives: beautiful location, great autonomy at LA county 1 and 3rd years. Good volume (~125-50 phacos). Big name faculty (esp retina), residents seem to get great fellowships. I think you will be well trained and extremely efficient as a graduate from there. The Chair seems to be very supportive, approachable, and down to earth.

Negatives: the 1st, 3rd years are worked to the bone at County. Many looked dog-tired. Not in of itself, bad, but there is very little ancillary support (techs) at County, and I'm not sure how much you are taught by the bigwig Doheny faculty except for the second year. At county, it looks like you have huge volume immediately, like the first month of 1st year, and there is not that much teaching. Guidance is available from seniors , but they are also busy as 3rd years. I think the County attendings are volunteers.

Misc: one odd thing seems to be the Assistant Chief of Service position. Usually a 1-2 yr position at most progs, but the current ACS has been there for 5 years, and looks to be there indefinitely. If one has questions, you ask your senior, if not ask ACS, if not then an attending. The ACS is mostly at County (2/3 of your time as a resident) has a big role in resident teaching. However the relationship of the ACS with some of the residents seems uneasy. Since you're spending most of your time at County, I think it is key to be ok with working independently (know how do to a through exam) immediately when you start, be able to deal with county staff and mentality, and to get along well with the ACS.

In general, I always wonder what a good balance is on: great autonomy but little supervision (county, va, etc) vs. less autonomy but good teaching (univ hospital etc.)
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I replied to the above post last year but can't seem to find my reply now. First, I think that the positives listed in this thread highlight every reason why I chose to train at this program.

As for the negatives, well you do work hard here. Harder than other programs? Perhaps, perhaps not. I agree that this is probably not the program for you if you want to be "eased in." You start with your own large panel of patients quickly and this is a place where you learn while you do. The trade-off is seeing and handling a large volume of medical and surgical pathology. Our program director has an analogy; the couty aspect of this residency program is like an all-you-can eat buffet...you will never go hungry here. So the more important question to ask yourself when ranking programs is what type of learner am I? How will I learn best? In addition to our outstanding full-time Doheny faculty many of whom DO come over to county to staff clinics, we have many great volunteer attendings (many are alum) who look forward to teaching us in the clinic and in the OR. I also believe that this is a huge plus as many of these attendings are in the "know" regarding private practice opportunities in the super-competitive southern california job market. In addition, our department chair has hired and is hiring more dedicated faculty to staff the county clinic. I must say that the department chair and program director are always looking for ways to make this residency program better.

As for the ACS (assistant chief of service), he has a tough job to do and has done it well for many years.

As for the last point, this program provides a great environment to develop outstanding clinical skills during your first year. During your second year, you refine these skills further with one-on-one interactions with Doheny faculty and develop a solid basis in cataract surgery as primary surgeon during the cataract rotation. Your third year is your year to operate. The cataract numbers are great as are our numbers in glaucoma, plastics, strabismus and all types of laser procedures. More important, all three years you have ample opportunity to work one-on-one with our world renown clinical faculty.

In summary, I would not trade my experience here for anything.
 
I'm one of the senior residents at Doheny and would like to further support Ruben's comments. I never thought I would actually register on this site, but after reading the speculative post about my program--I just had to chime in.

First--the positives: agree with ruben regarding the post. I'll addres a few of these with the "negatives" below...

I wanted to be in this program and saw every aspect of it as a medical student at USC. We have a great mix of mentored learning at Doheny with a good amount of autonomy at LAC. In more than two years in this program at LAC, I have never had difficulty having an attending see any patient that I felt needed to see an attending or that I had a question about. At LAC, you see normal everyday eye disease and the crazy stuff that most people only read about. Of course, like other top programs in the country we do work hard. The first year can a difficult transition for some people, but I believe (and from what i've heard from residents at other programs) its like that at most programs. If you feel you need an attending with you 100% of the time, then this isn't the program for you. If you learn well on your own as well as with attendings, then you will do great here.

One other aspect that differentiates us from other programs, or as I believe sets us farther above most, is the complete lack of malignant behavior from any attending. I can walk into any attendings office at any time to talk about whatever I like. They are consistently there to back us up and genuinely listen to our concerns and implement changes when necessary. They know we work hard and treat us well. Also, these attendings do come over to staff the county clinic for specialty clinics where they are available to all residents. And yes, our chairman is very supportive. In fact, I would go as far to say that he is the best chairman in the US. We meet with him every week and discuss a wide variety of topics- new trends in ophthalmology, political, administrative, and sometimes clinical.

With regard to the ACS, he supports us in all our endeavors. Any resident supervisor has a difficult job, party because you have to be immediately responsible for all residents but in no way does that translate to a bad relationship with residents or "making their lives difficult".

Again..I agree with Ruben...I would still rank us #1, just like I did on match day.
 
As a recent graduate of the program, here are my two cents on the Residency.

Positives:
  • Approachable Faculty: They are the highlight of the program as they are so friendly and down to earth. It is rare for a top 5 program to have such approachable faculty. It begins with the Chairman and Program Director and continues with the majority of the faculty.
  • County Hospital: It is an excellent environment to see a lot of diverse pathology first hand as a resident.
  • Breath and Depth of Department: Every subspeciality in Ophthalmology is well represented with at least two full time faculty present, even in Neuro-ophthalmology! Most departments do not have a neuro-ophthalmologist or even an ocular pathologist. Doheny is fortunate as all the divisions are very strong which gives you great exposure to everything!
  • Volume: You get do a lot of cases from beginning to end. My co-residents did anywhere from 120 to over 200 cataracts (I did 180). More importantly, you do difficult cases not just 20/50 phacos.
  • Location: Los Angeles is a great city that has a ton to offer. You can live in a variety of neighborhoods from Pasadena to the beach towns along the coast. I lived in Santa Monica, six blocks from the water!
  • Excellent Post-Residency Placement: Excellent fellowship match. For instance, there were five people applying in retina the same year who all matched at top programs. If you want to practice in Southern California which is very competitive, Doheny is a great option.
  • Great Esprit de Corps: Despite being a busy program, you spend a lot of time with your first and third year class working in the County. I made many good friends and you can develop great relationships with co-residents. Great memories.
Negatives:
  • County Hospital: Wasn’t this a positive? The County Hospital is inefficient and there is little to no technician help. It can be a painful to get things done. The facilities should be a ton better with the move to the new hospital which should be very nice but the “county culture” will follow it in!
  • Busy Program: Like most of the other top ten programs, it is busy especially the first year. You do get thrown into the “fire” immediately. You are able to see a lot of pathology but it can be busy.
If you are willing to learn on your own and “learn by doing,” Doheny is a fantastic program. If you need to be hand held and supervised for your residency, then Doheny is not a good choice for you. That being said, there is decent, not great supervision. The fellows and Chief are usually always around the County and the Doheny faculty are pretty responsive. If you make the effort, you will be supervised at County.

Doheny was my top choice for residency. Looking back, I was fortunate to match and very happy with my residency experience.
 
How about a couple positives for which you guys might've missed:

Living in sunny southern California
And bragging rights of being able to attend one of the "top 10" ophtho programs in the country
Great fellowships after residency

I think some of the more important reasons why one program gets chosen over another, especially in the ophtho residency game, is NAME and RECOGNITION.

All programs in the country train residents to be great comprehensive ophthalmologists - any chairman will tell you that - and if he doesn't then he's just lying.

Why go to the any of the top 10 programs --> great opportunity to do research and great opportunity to do a great fellowship --- everything else like training, patient load, cataract numbers, attendings' personalities are tertiary priorities in my opinion.

USC/Doheny is great - I even did a 6 week rotation there and wasn't even invited for an interview😕 --- but that was okay because I don't think I even had a chance in the first place. As far as a fellowship goes I would love to come to USC for one.

If I were interviewed there like you guys I would also rank them as number 1 - why not??
 
pros
name
diverse pathology at large county hospital
little driving
new hospital
enthusiastic PD

cons
poor recruiting effort
no resident interaction during the entire interview day
financial difficulties
no permanent wet lab facilities
no simulator
grumpy/apathetic coordinator
in-house call
bureaucracy/inefficiency of county system
 
Any new thoughts on USC? I know by the rankings it is one of the top ten programs and you seem to get great training there but how does it compare to UCLA?

EDIT: not thinking, sorry
 
Last edited:
VikingFavre said:
Any new thoughts on USC? I know by the rankings it is one of the top ten programs and you seem to get great training there but how does it compare to UCLA or USC?
Click to expand...

Well since it IS USC, I'd say it compares very well. It's a top program and you will get whatever fellowship/academic/nonacademic position you want upon leaving. The major negative is the fact they seem to care more about medical school name than caliber of student/applicant (this was told to me by a resident there). Otherwise a top/elite program without question
 
DKofLV said:
Well since it IS USC, I'd say it compares very well. It's a top program and you will get whatever fellowship/academic/nonacademic position you want upon leaving. The major negative is the fact they seem to care more about medical school name than caliber of student/applicant (this was told to me by a resident there). Otherwise a top/elite program without question
Click to expand...


Thanks for the input.

This is true in screening for interviews or in ranking applicants?
 
VikingFavre said:
Thanks for the input.

This is true in screening for interviews or in ranking applicants?
Click to expand...

both.

i know a guy who went to an ok med school...did 2 years of research there...made HUGE publications AT Doheny...got interviews at almost EVERY GREAT program....ranked Doheny #1 because he said he would, and landed at his #2 program (he was very happy with the match...but u can see, he didnt go to Hopkins...so...).

This is the quote he told me they said to him: "Of all the students from non-top 10 medical schools, you have a really good chance of matching here." Well, you can see this didnt happen. I actually ranked Doheny behind my non-ranked home program because of this....but, I know for a fact the attendings are amazing and nice, the experience is outstanding, and the facilities are fantastic. Anyone would be lucky to go there without a doubt...I just wasnt a good fit for it.
 
DKofLV said:
both.

i know a guy who went to an ok med school...did 2 years of research there...made HUGE publications AT Doheny...got interviews at almost EVERY GREAT program....ranked Doheny #1 because he said he would, and landed at his #2 program (he was very happy with the match...but u can see, he didnt go to Hopkins...so...).

This is the quote he told me they said to him: "Of all the students from non-top 10 medical schools, you have a really good chance of matching here." Well, you can see this didnt happen. I actually ranked Doheny behind my non-ranked home program because of this....but, I know for a fact the attendings are amazing and nice, the experience is outstanding, and the facilities are fantastic. Anyone would be lucky to go there without a doubt...I just wasnt a good fit for it.
Click to expand...

Crazy...I will definitely be interviewing there but I was curious after seeing some of the negative comments in this thread.

The PD seems outstanding.
 
I didn't think this was true until I looked it up myself. It looks like most of the residents are from harvard, johns hopkins, or ucsf, but on the bright side, there were couple of residents not from a top med school who graduated last year (U rochester, USC), for whatever that's worth.

DKofLV said:
both.

i know a guy who went to an ok med school...did 2 years of research there...made HUGE publications AT Doheny...got interviews at almost EVERY GREAT program....ranked Doheny #1 because he said he would, and landed at his #2 program (he was very happy with the match...but u can see, he didnt go to Hopkins...so...).

This is the quote he told me they said to him: "Of all the students from non-top 10 medical schools, you have a really good chance of matching here." Well, you can see this didnt happen. I actually ranked Doheny behind my non-ranked home program because of this....but, I know for a fact the attendings are amazing and nice, the experience is outstanding, and the facilities are fantastic. Anyone would be lucky to go there without a doubt...I just wasnt a good fit for it.
Click to expand...
 
Interview Experience: split into two groups, one group at a time interviewed (chair, PD, and 2 other faculty) and other group went on tour with ACS. Lunch and dinner on site with residents. Questions mostly focused on trying to find applicants who are good fits for the program.

Pros:

-Huge LAC population with tremendous volume and diversity (unmatched?)
-Top ten ophthalmology research institute
-All facilities on-site! No driving during the day
-New LA County is actually pretty nice
-Residents seemed very close-knit and friendly
-Faculty was very down-to-earth without much trace of formality
-Faculty (including chair and PD) and especially the current ACS seemed very, very dedicated to their residents and the quality of training given
-Faculty and ACS were very, very open about the difficulty of the program, no smoke and mirrors here
-LA weather cannot be beat
-Reputation/connections for fellowship match and job search in So. Cal

Cons (depending on what your goals are):

-Residents universally agreed that 1st year is absolutely brutal and privately some advised me to look elsewhere
-In-house call is very, very busy
-Very fast-paced, independent and hands-on environment, so less time for reading if that is your learning style
-Despite new LA County hospital the county work atmosphere persists, so if you are frustrated easily by inefficiency look elsewhere
-The Ivy League bias (confirmed by residents, dropped them in my mind...)

Overall Impression:
Doheny is not for everyone. It requires someone who is very comfortable being independent from day one, working in a county hospital environment, and taking responsibility for the academic education to supplement the tremendous clinical scope one sees at LAC.

If you are looking to do comprehensive this certainly will prepare you to be a top-tier resident graduate, but I wonder if it may be overkill to meet that goal. For fellowship you will have opportunites to match in pretty much everything (like the rest of the top ten programs).

I was impressed by the resident camaraderie and the faculty dedication to the residents. The loyalty and effort of the ACS, Dr. Sanchez, is readily apparent, and I would hope that all ACS would be as terrific as he seems to be. However, the ACS does play a large role in resident education, and a poor ACS could make resident life difficult.

All-in-all if you choose to go to Doheny do so with a smile on your face knowing the difficult road that lies ahead. Given that you only have one opportunity to train, it may well be worth it. On the other hand, if it is not your cup of tea recognize that within yourself and avoid putting yourself and the program through an unhappy residency.
 
VikingFavre said:
Interview Experience: split into two groups, one group at a time interviewed (chair, PD, and 2 other faculty) and other group went on tour with ACS. Lunch and dinner on site with residents. Questions mostly focused on trying to find applicants who are good fits for the program.

Pros:

-Huge LAC population with tremendous volume and diversity (unmatched?)
-Top ten ophthalmology research institute
-All facilities on-site! No driving during the day
-New LA County is actually pretty nice
-Residents seemed very close-knit and friendly
-Faculty was very down-to-earth without much trace of formality
-Faculty (including chair and PD) and especially the current ACS seemed very, very dedicated to their residents and the quality of training given
-Faculty and ACS were very, very open about the difficulty of the program, no smoke and mirrors here
-LA weather cannot be beat
-Reputation/connections for fellowship match and job search in So. Cal

Cons (depending on what your goals are):

-Residents universally agreed that 1st year is absolutely brutal and privately some advised me to look elsewhere
-In-house call is very, very busy
-Very fast-paced, independent and hands-on environment, so less time for reading if that is your learning style
-Despite new LA County hospital the county work atmosphere persists, so if you are frustrated easily by inefficiency look elsewhere
-The Ivy League bias (confirmed by residents, dropped them in my mind...)

Overall Impression:
Doheny is not for everyone. It requires someone who is very comfortable being independent from day one, working in a county hospital environment, and taking responsibility for the academic education to supplement the tremendous clinical scope one sees at LAC.

If you are looking to do comprehensive this certainly will prepare you to be a top-tier resident graduate, but I wonder if it may be overkill to meet that goal. For fellowship you will have opportunites to match in pretty much everything (like the rest of the top ten programs).

I was impressed by the resident camaraderie and the faculty dedication to the residents. The loyalty and effort of the ACS, Dr. Sanchez, is readily apparent, and I would hope that all ACS would be as terrific as he seems to be. However, the ACS does play a large role in resident education, and a poor ACS could make resident life difficult.

All-in-all if you choose to go to Doheny do so with a smile on your face knowing the difficult road that lies ahead. Given that you only have one opportunity to train, it may well be worth it. On the other hand, if it is not your cup of tea recognize that within yourself and avoid putting yourself and the program through an unhappy residency.
Click to expand...

Would you mind clarifying what you refer to as "The Ivy League bias"?
 
erasable said:
Would you mind clarifying what you refer to as "The Ivy League bias"?
Click to expand...

VikingFavre is referring to the above discussion (see the 3-4 posts preceeding his review of the program). Basically, USC does not interview many people from schools outside the "top 10" or Ivy League. For example, on my interview day the other 7 interviewees were from either Columbia (4) or Johns Hopkins (3).
 
It doesn't bother me so much that they like applicants from top med schools. What really bothers me is that they prefer "sub-par" applicants from top schools than top applicants from non-top 10 schools. (By "sub-par," I do not mean below average applicant. I mean sub-par by top program standards, like those who are not AOA, <240 step 1, minimal research, etc).
 
Just wondering if anyone had any information on the USC program after the recent separation from Doheny? Any current residents or anyone else have any updates on what the current "status" is of the program?
 
Also wondering about USC post Doheny split? Any insight anyone?
 
Nicar said:
Also wondering about USC post Doheny split? Any insight anyone?
Click to expand...

This is from another thread, just copying my reply.

I was hoping that it will be clear from the interview day the Doheny/UCLA vs USC Eye situation. Quite a few applicants asked it straight up and residents/faculty were happy to answer. We are still friends and colleagues, as I came from UCLA and many of the former faculty that I am friends with stayed loyal to Doheny. Ophthalmology community is small and we share patients (our clinics are in the same buildings on the private side)

The split happened before I joined USC, so I can not comment on what lead to it. I can only comment on what I see now and how the residents are doing. I have friends (residents)who graduated before and right after the split. Everyone said to me (even before I signed my contract) that the changes were for the best.

Now there is 100% supervision in OR, no cases to start without an attending present. There is an assigned attending to each clinic half day: cornea attending for cornea, glaucoma for glaucoma day, etc at county. Previously, this was not the case and fellows were the only staffing. It is in my contract that I will attend resident clinics/OR, so it is in writing so none of the faculty can disappear. If I need to take a vacation I find coverage myself.

Teaching: dedicated curriculum for 4 hrs each friday morning, we cover everything in BCSC, grand rounds every tuesday nights, glaucoma rounds on wed night with the chairman, usual FA conferences. And we are sending 2nd and 3 rd year residents to San Antonio review course this year and for years to follow. Residents can also attend UCLA review course in addition to San Antonio.

My private clinics are self sufficient and I do not rely on residents to write my notes or do any scut, when they come to work with me - it is for their benefit and I am happy if they see 4 pts total but learn something instead of going through 20 puts in half day.

Oh and they get 24 paid vacation days, required to take all of them- I don't know if any other program can match that...Plus educational leave.

Any questions feel free to pm me or post her.
 
Update on the fellowship match. All 4 residents applying for subspecialty training matched in their top choice.

Cornea-UCSF
Glaucoma-UCSF
Glaucoma- Wilmer
Retina- Cleveland clinic

Yay!
 
"Dr. Varma with this report, as he returns home to California to become Chair of the Department of Ophthalmology and Associate Dean at the Keck School of Medicine of USC and Director of the USC Eye Institute. We wish him well." from UIC IEEI 2013 annual report.
 
Is there a point to he above post? Varma has been at USC for 3 years now.
 
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