Question on Controversial Job

It's a legitimate job. No frowns. Not like you were in charge of drinking the leftovers, or anything.

Are you applying to Loma Linda?

you needed money. you did it. what's so shameful?

Jolie South said:

you needed money. you did it. what's so shameful?

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Uhhhhhhh....

st0w said:

Uhhhhhhh....

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oh come on.

it's a legal job. the OP needed money. it was probably easy to get hired. he worked. he made money. end of story.

as long as he wasn't slipping the date rape drug to underage girls, i don't see the problem.

Jolie South said:

oh come on.

it's a legal job. the OP needed money. it was probably easy to get hired. he worked. he made money. end of story.

as long as he wasn't slipping the date rape drug to underage girls, i don't see the problem.

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Oh, you're talking about bartending... Oh, yeah, ok, then that's ok.

ZacharyMD said:

Well, I am worried about med admission officers feeling that I was in some way contributing to alcoholism. At the time, I really wasn't anticipating possible future consequences, but now that I've decided to apply to medical school I am definitely thinking there may be some questioning when they see this. I am a bit worried, to say the least.

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You only did it for 3 months.

IF you are asked about it at an interview, you explain the circumstances (i.e. needed money badly and easy job to get).

I don't even know why you would put it on an application though.

I'm sure they won't put down a pre-med for needing to make money. Aren't all strippers trying to go to medical school?

Really, unless your reason for leaving was that you got charged with selling to minors, brawling, or helping yourself to the merchandise, there's no reason to worry.

In fact, I'd bet that some interviewers might even hope to hear a few good stories about your experiences. It seems like a good job for observing human nature. You have responsibility to deny service to those who are inebriated or underage & probably had to contend with you share of bad attitudes and learn how to handle possibly confrontational situations. There's plenty of good spin for that job.

ahem. are you applying to loma linda?

Bartending is not a controversial job. Pre-meds are crazy and ridiculously paranoid. Dont forget that people on the adcom are...believe it or not...real people. They go to bars.

Of course I would leave out that you were a bartender in a BDSM club and your "duties" occasionally involved pouring drinks into leather boots while dressed up like a Rocky Horror extra.

ZacharyMD said:

You have to report all past employment jobs I believe.

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you do? I left out some stuff.

i.e. my sales jobs at James Avery and Cutco

no one asked about those gaps (2~3 months) at interviews either.

ZacharyMD said:

Well, I am worried about med admission officers feeling that I was in some way contributing to alcoholism. At the time, I really wasn't anticipating possible future consequences, but now that I've decided to apply to medical school I am definitely thinking there may be some questioning when they see this. I am a bit worried, to say the least.

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Heck, you have this bassackwards. Bartenders don't CONTRIBUTE to alcoholism - they're supposed to control the flow. That's like saying that you were embarrassed to have been a pharm tech because someone might think that you had contributed to drug abuse.

ZacharyMD said:

Well, I am worried about med admission officers feeling that I was in some way contributing to alcoholism. At the time, I really wasn't anticipating possible future consequences, but now that I've decided to apply to medical school I am definitely thinking there may be some questioning when they see this. I am a bit worried, to say the least.

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Dude, you seriously need to take a step back and relax.

ZacharyMD said:

Well, I am worried about med admission officers feeling that I was in some way contributing to alcoholism. At the time, I really wasn't anticipating possible future consequences, but now that I've decided to apply to medical school I am definitely thinking there may be some questioning when they see this. I am a bit worried, to say the least.

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If anything, I would have guessed that bartenders reduce alcoholism by cutting people off when they've had too much; I would have guessed that people drink much more when they drink alone in their homes, mixing their own drinks. In any case, there was a former bartender in my med school class, it's a perfectly respectable job, not to mention an interesting skill set that isn't as easy to learn as people might think (I mean, aren't there bartending schools that charge people money to learn the ropes?). I really don't think adcoms would view it negatively; they know that the vast majority of med students are alcohol-consumers, anyway, so why would they be prejudiced against the people who mix the drinks?

HumidBeing said:

Heck, you have this bassackwards. Bartenders don't CONTRIBUTE to alcoholism - they're supposed to control the flow. That's like saying that you were embarrassed to have been a pharm tech because someone might think that you had contributed to drug abuse.

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exactly.

that's like saying being a waiter means that you're contributing to obesity because you served people food.

I wouldn't worry about it. ADCOMs know that people need money and not every job can be in research and whatnot.

Lol! I thought you were going to say "work at Hooters" or something... knew it couldn't be stripping or some such, as that's just too troll-worthy. But bartending? You're fine.

Think of it this way: bartending is customer service.

Adcoms would like to hear that future doctors do have some customer service skills because this plays a big factor in doctor-patient interaction. They want doctors who put patients at ease, doctors who can establish rapport quickly.

I'm a bartender and i discussed it during my interview. The interviewer didn't say anything negative about it, and, in fact, he was impressed that i was able to save for 4years of medical school in 5 years.

Jolie South said:

as long as he wasn't slipping the date rape drug to underage girls, i don't see the problem.

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or girls that are of legal age

OP, if bartending is a frowned upon job then I don't know what I'm going to do. Over the summer I worked at a telephone interviewing service (IT IS NOT TELEMARKETING OR SOLICITATION ) and I'm sure you can imagine some of the people I had to deal with. If anything, I'm in a worse position than you because I could have called one of the AdCom members and destroyed their family dinner. (I do feel bad)

I find it really surprising that people could be at all negative about bartending. It's a perfectly legitimate job, where (I'm assuming) you're doing absolutely nothing illegal. You're serving alcohol in a controlled environment, where as far as you know, everyone is of legal drinking age. It's really not much different than a waiter, who often serves alcohol. What's the problem?

Also, you're working with people, you have to be at least somewhat personable. Not to mention you have the time management and responsibility to hold a job. So in my opinion, there's no way it could hurt your application.

ZacharyMD said:

I was wondering about something. A couple years ago, I worked for about three months as a bartender. How badly is this frowned upon by medical schools? Any helpful information from people who can intelligently speak about this is greatly appreciated.

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I will say this: It will in no way effect your chances negatively. It can be a positive though. Talk about how it improved your ability to talk to people and how you had to multitask.

My doc was telling me about how he worked as a bartender before he got into med school. He actually recommended it. Then again, it took him three times...

You are CRAZY! It is just a job, a regular college job that hundreds of thousands of college students take to pay for their education!
I listed bartender on mine, as well as working in a liqueur store (and you get some real drunkards coming in there, more so than a bar).

Just relax. Too many neurotic,crazy premeds. THE ADCOMS ARE [drum-roll please] PEOPLE! They eat, drink, and were once a long time ago a little, puny undergrad like we are now.

haha you want controversial job? i worked for a marketing company hired out by MARLBORO. I was that girl in the nightclubs with the shot girl who asked if you smoke, if you did did a thirty second survey, and gave out free zippo lighters, ashtrays, etc. I want to be a cardiologist. You see the dilema here. But, it paid crazy well, and i wouldn't have been able to afford room and board senior year and probably wouldn't have been able to graduate had i not done it. I used it as an ethical dilema thing in apps and wrote about quitting once i had enough cash to finish college, but that type of thing can be really hard to spin.

Rotinaj said:

I will say this: It will in no way effect your chances negatively. It can be a positive though. Talk about how it improved your ability to talk to people and how you had to multitask.

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Haha. Well maybe he could talk about those things in a different way and not relate them back to bartending. Talk to people....volunteering at the hospital. Multi-tasking.....research in a lab. In no way would I personally emphasize the job. Its not health related and really doesn't help his application. Not saying that it hurts either....

If bar tending is so terrible, why do they teach it at Harvard? Can you make a decent Rob Roy?

Founded in 1972, the Harvard Bartending Course has instructed over 40,000 people in the art of mixology, bartending, and TIPS certified alcohol service. Held on Harvard's campus, all of the courses are easily accessible by public transportation from anywhere in the Boston area. We are now also proud to offer our course in Phoenix, Arizona. Entertaining and instructive, our course will help you master the art of bartending and all its wonders!
The bartending course is a one-day weekend course that covers all important skills needed to bartend. Our syllabus covers technique, etiquette, and more.
The Advanced Mixology Course is a four-hour supplement to our popular basic Harvard Bartending Course. The course is devoted to more advanced drink mixing and practice in real-life bartending situations. Hands-on training!
Our Introduction to Wine Tasting is an intensive one-day course that covers a wide range of wine styles and regions. Perfect for both beginners and epicures!


http://www.harvardstudentagencies.com/hbc/default.asp

Don't worry. It is a perfectly acceptable job to list on your application.

You are not obligated to list every job you've ever held on the application but a large gap (>3 mos) with no activity at all might raise a red flag.

I think bartending sounds like an awesome job. I really want to bartend in some foreign country this summer before med school. I feel as though bartenders get to meet some really cool people.

I do know a friend who's trying to go to medical school who had a really controversial job though... He worked as a "recruiter" for a college porn magazine. I don't know if his interviewers are going to google him, but if it comes up, I have no clue how he would spin that.

mountainhare said:

If anything, I would have guessed that bartenders reduce alcoholism by cutting people off when they've had too much; I would have guessed that people drink much more when they drink alone in their homes, mixing their own drinks. In any case, there was a former bartender in my med school class, it's a perfectly respectable job, not to mention an interesting skill set that isn't as easy to learn as people might think (I mean, aren't there bartending schools that charge people money to learn the ropes?). I really don't think adcoms would view it negatively; they know that the vast majority of med students are alcohol-consumers, anyway, so why would they be prejudiced against the people who mix the drinks?

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Learning to mix the drinks isn't the hard part. It's juggling all your customers while being affable enough to earn tips.

ZacharyMD said:

You're basically expected to know how to mix drinks right off the bat. Most classes (including the one I took) teach you how to do tricks (flair bartending and fancy pouring methods), and generally impress people so as to earn bigger tips. You're really getting paid for your people skills.

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Exactly my pont, which is just anothe reason you could spin your experience to your advantage. I actually don't think it's much of a spin. You could make a very valid case for why it was a beneficial experience and how it could help you as a doctor who interacts with often times demanding and occassionally irrational patients.

ZacharyMD said:

I agree with you in that, but....I don't know...I've had some people make various remarks about the job, including my premed advisor with whom I'm actually pretty close saying that I either crossed the line by having that job or that it is going to give med admission officers reason to believe I'm not "100% for helping people". I did love the job while I had it, the pay was wonderful, I got to interact with lots of people, got invited to lots of wild parties, etc, but I will personally agree that the word bartender has a more risque vibe than, say, cashier or store clerk. Your job is to get people their alcohol.

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I would not hesitate to put it personally. I doubt everyones career history paints a picture of someone whose used every waking hour of their life to directly "help people." Bartending can be a challening job that requires multitasking, good memory, quick thinking, and great people skills. All of these are very important to being a good physician from what I can deduce.

ZacharyMD said:

I agree with you in that, but....I don't know...I've had some people make various remarks about the job, including my premed advisor with whom I'm actually pretty close saying that I either crossed the line by having that job or that it is going to give med admission officers reason to believe I'm not "100% for helping people". I did love the job while I had it, the pay was wonderful, I got to interact with lots of people, got invited to lots of wild parties, etc, but I will personally agree that the word bartender has a more risque vibe than, say, cashier or store clerk. Your job is to get people their alcohol.

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Bartenders serve people.

I'd venture to guess that most medical school faculty members have used the services of a bartender and some have even hired bartenders to assist at events they've sponsored. Any pre-med advisor who tells you otherwise is daft!

I worked as a bartender for quite a while and everyone I've come across in the application process has been totally OK with it.

Personally, I think it's an excellent job to have because it shows that you can interact with people, even the very very difficult (read: drunk) ones. Also, it's a great way to prove that you can handle stress, think and act quickly, and possibly juggle such a demanding job with other things like coursework and volunteer work.

List it. If it comes up, own it and be proud of it.

ZacharyMD said:

I agree with you in that, but....I don't know...I've had some people make various remarks about the job, including my premed advisor with whom I'm actually pretty close saying that I either crossed the line by having that job or that it is going to give med admission officers reason to believe I'm not "100% for helping people". I did love the job while I had it, the pay was wonderful, I got to interact with lots of people, got invited to lots of wild parties, etc, but I will personally agree that the word bartender has a more risque vibe than, say, cashier or store clerk. Your job is to get people their alcohol.

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I think what everyone is trying to tell you is that your concern over this is a ridiculous, fantastical, unrealistic, highly imaginative, completely unfounded, preposterously anachronistic, quantifiably neurotic, absurdly grandiose distortion of reality.

Relax. The 18th amendment was repealed in 1933. You're parents most likely weren't even born yet then. It is a non-issue.

Kthanksbye said:

I think what everyone is trying to tell you is that your concern over this is a ridiculous, fantastical, unrealistic, highly imaginative, completely unfounded, preposterously anachronistic, quantifiably neurotic, absurdly grandiose distortion of reality.

Relax. The 18th amendment was repealed in 1933. You're parents most likely weren't even born yet then. It is a non-issue.

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By far the longest collection of consecutive adjectival clauses I've witnessed anywhere (like my alliteration?). The point did need driving home, though.

Drogba said:

By far the longest collection of consecutive adjectival clauses I've witnessed anywhere (like my alliteration?). The point did need driving home, though.

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i don't think that counts as alliteration. sorry.

MDRus said:

i don't think that counts as alliteration. sorry.

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You don't have to be sorry, since you are wrong

Dude, seriously don't worry about it!

I've been a bartender for a couple of years now. It's not going to come up in my interviews because I didn't mention it.

Hopefully you have other experiences (besides working at a bar) to put on your application. If your place is also a restaurant, then maybe you could mention that you work at a food & bev joint.

I applied to Loma Linda and didn't mention a thing...I didn't want someone on their adcom going into cardiac arrest.

Relax

I was a bartender for six years. I was told by a prof at UPenn who is a friend of my uncle's, and has been advising me through this process, that it is not something I would want to emphasize.

Having said that, its a job a lot of college kids have. But someone might see it as a negative.