Surgery Resident gets fired for cell phone pictures

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I say beat that dead horse! How soon do you think it is before this stud with the "Hot Rod" Penis is going to sue for multimillions for emotional suffering and public embarassment? I suggest that all disgruntled residents do mischievous things such as this to make the hospitals pay for milking us out of every penny.
 
The dead horse icon/smiley is because this very topic is being discussed on other sections of this forum. Is there really a need to start another thread? Just join another discussion.
 
Why not just tell them? You can embellish more in a story anyway, and there is no proof of such a violation - if someone complained it is just he-says-she-says. Its like cheating on a spouse and have cell phone pics of the "other" where your SO can find them. That was just crazy on his part. And the way organized crime is in Phoenix, doing that to a strip club owner is asking for a shake down. It would not be too surprising to see that doc just dissappear.
 
Looks like I spoke to soon:

...said he got the tattoo on a bet and that "it was the most horrible thing I ever went though in my life."

He said he planned to contact an attorney.

"The longer I sit here the angrier I get," he said.
 
The actual title of this thread should really be: Bitter Scrub Nurse Tries To Get People In Trouble, Gets Fired and Dies Alone.
 
thusell said:
The actual title of this thread should really be: Bitter Scrub Nurse Tries To Get People In Trouble, Gets Fired and Dies Alone.
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I don't know why, but this reminds me of the med student that found the green towel in the cadaver's chest. If I were this med student I would have quietly walked to the trash can and thrown it away. Instead he probably held it up like a trophy....and the CT surgery mafia probably broke his knees. 🙂
 
I first posted this in the General Residency forum, then in Anesthesiology. I didn't even look in the Surgery forum. I highly doubt most of the people who look through the general residency forum or anesthesia forum are reading the surgery forum.

I posted/reposted since I felt like this should a little warning and a precedent has been set. I think with the advent of camera phones everywhere that every resident needs to exercise a little caution when snapping pics of bizarrre cases. There is no rule that I violated and I am not apologizing for trying to get the story out where people can see this. I would be horrified at losing my career secondary to something as stupid as this. I cannot imagine what that surgery resident is going through now. I honestly feel that everyone overreacted, and they shouldn't end his career over this mistake.

This is why I have no qualms about leaving medicine someday if medicine continues to eat its own, and something better comes along. It never ceases to amaze how medicine is so full of arrogant, opinionated, hotshots that are quick to shoot anyone down that may falter a bit. Then they claim how much they love to help people. Ok I am getting off my soapbox.
 
Here, let me help you organize your thoughts.

Resident: Took photos of genitala and laughed about it. Didn't attach any name to the photo. There was no medical reason to take the picture, but it doesn't constitute a HIPAA violation or malpractice. Nobody was actually harmed in any way until the person was identified (not by the resident). Therefore, although he made a retrospectively "poor" decision, the only actually problematic thing occurred once the patient was identified.

Nurse Anesthetist: Bitter hag, probably ugly, definitely ******ed. She went out of her way to identify the patient and create a problem. She also reported it to a newspaper in order to sensationalize things. Anecdotally, she has a history of trying to report people for anything she can. In point of fact, she's the one who actually attached a name to the picture; therefore, she's technically the one who made a HIPAA violation.
 
Speaking for the Surgery Mods/Advisors as well as some of the more frequent users, almost all of us read this forum as well as Anesthesia, so that's why it seems repetitive to us.

That said, its an important topic that probably belongs in a general forum so that those who don't go into Surgery or Gas Forums will see it as well.
 
timtye78 said:
I first posted this in the General Residency forum, then in Anesthesiology. I didn't even look in the Surgery forum. I highly doubt most of the people who look through the general residency forum or anesthesia forum are reading the surgery forum.

I posted/reposted since I felt like this should a little warning and a precedent has been set. I think with the advent of camera phones everywhere that every resident needs to exercise a little caution when snapping pics of bizarrre cases. There is no rule that I violated and I am not apologizing for trying to get the story out where people can see this. I would be horrified at losing my career secondary to something as stupid as this. I cannot imagine what that surgery resident is going through now. I honestly feel that everyone overreacted, and they shouldn't end his career over this mistake.

This is why I have no qualms about leaving medicine someday if medicine continues to eat its own, and something better comes along. It never ceases to amaze how medicine is so full of arrogant, opinionated, hotshots that are quick to shoot anyone down that may falter a bit. Then they claim how much they love to help people. Ok I am getting off my soapbox.
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I agree!!! Medicine is unique in that we do eat our own. Having personal experience in it, I almost wanted to leave medicine. And as I really think I have something positive to contribute, that is a shame. It begins at an early point and continues throughout one's career. Medical students model the behavior I submit:

Surgeon: Don't trust the Anesthesiologist, he is drunk and doesn't know what he is talking about.

EM: The medicine guy is too busy checking the mag level to see the big picture.

Anyone: The radiologist is too scared of the dark to come out and look at the patient.

We should stop or our specialty will continue to become more powerless to face the oncoming challenges that face us. Without solidarity we are cooked!!
 
EdEmEr said:
Surgeon: Don't trust the Anesthesiologist, he is drunk and doesn't know what he is talking about.

EM: The medicine guy is too busy checking the mag level to see the big picture.

Anyone: The radiologist is too scared of the dark to come out and look at the patient.
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First of all, your generalizations are all wrong. Second of all, most of the generalizations made about the specialties are based in truth if people wanted to admit it. Lastly, the inter-specialty battles have nothing to do with this particular incident. This was purely an example of someone who is basically a subordinate who spends her entire life and energy trying to "take down" her superiors. She'll end up being canned herself, for what little consolation that is.
 
I don't think we have any evidence that this was the work of a nurse or nurse anesthetist, do we? All we've seen is an intern who once rotated there post that a particular CRNA is nasty. This in no way means that she or any particular member of an allied health profession squealed on the resident.

For all we know, it could have been another resident who did it.
 
Dr. Tweety is correct.

The fact that physicians wouldn't say anything when a colleague was working impaired by drugs, alcohol or other reasons is why we have such regulations set up. I don't have enough experience in fields other than academics and surgery to say whether or not this goes on in other types of professions, but it is well known that physicians protect their own. Its one reason why it can be hard to get an "expert witness" to testify against another physician; you can easily become a pariah in the field by doing so.
 
It's easy to get "expert witnesses" to testify against physicians. However, they just happen to be physicians with degrees who didn't really practice, hardly making them "expert." Also, I can't comment on physicians protecting impaired colleagues. Everyone makes it seem like you go to the bathrooms and there are random anesthesologists passed out in the stalls in medical school. We protect each other professionally in terms of not saying someone did the wrong thing (in terms of clinical choice), but that's totally reasonable. Why should I help a lawyer and a plaintiff sue a colleague of mine when I know how difficult the medical practice is?
 
Kimberli Cox said:
Dr. Tweety is correct.

The fact that physicians wouldn't say anything when a colleague was working impaired by drugs, alcohol or other reasons is why we have such regulations set up. I don't have enough experience in fields other than academics and surgery to say whether or not this goes on in other types of professions, but it is well known that physicians protect their own. Its one reason why it can be hard to get an "expert witness" to testify against another physician; you can easily become a pariah in the field by doing so.
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It's more common in high stress fields. Physicians, Police Officers, Firefighters, lawyers or any field where they can take you down with them 😉.

I'd say that physicians and police officers have been the worst, in my limited personal experience with individuals in all of the above fields.
 
TweetyPie said:
I have never seen a profession that protects its own the way medicine does when it comes to dealing with medical mistakes through suppression and/or concealment (not that I personally have first hand knowledge of such).
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I guess the term blue wall of silence means nothing to you.

I am not a big fan of punishing non-victim crimes. When I did a prison psyche rotation most of the people were in for personal drug use - if it is not impairing things like driving who cares. I had a psyche patient who was a fireman busted with $20 worth of drugs. 2.5 years minimum mandatory. I would prefer drug rehab, cheaper and we keep a valuable person of the work community - now he will never return to being a fireman. The guy had over a decade of service and I kid you not, he was one of the first people into the World Trade Center with the bombing. I had his entire legal and medical file - he had not one other criminal charge against him.

Chronic drug use or drug use that impairs someone professionally is criminal - there could be victims. I never drink or take drugs due to religious reasons, but I still understand people that do so occassionally.

Likewise I am not sure an anonymous photo of someones gentalia makes one a victim , so while it is wrong - and stupid, I don't agree with him losing his license. If it was someone famous and posted in PEOPLE or something that is something else.

When I played basketball we learned to play by "no blood, no foul". I hate games where they call every little foul. if you did not really get jacked or jack somebody suck it up and don't call a foul.
 
TweetyPie said:
In fact, professionally, the pendulum swings the other way to what would be considered by many in other professions as irresponsible, or even criminal. I have never seen a profession that protects its own the way medicine does when it comes to dealing with medical mistakes through suppression and/or concealment (not that I personally have first hand knowledge of such).
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So if you have no first-hand knowledge of it, why are you presenting this as though it is common practice? Sounds to me like one of those "commonly known" things that are really just professional myths.
 
Doowai said:
I had a psyche patient who was a fireman busted with $20 worth of drugs. 2.5 years minimum mandatory...The guy had over a decade of service and I kid you not, he was one of the first people into the World Trade Center with the bombing. I had his entire legal and medical file - he had not one other criminal charge against him.
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This is absolutely freakifying. I don't even pretend that I'm not occasionally whimsical, impulsive and childish. Taking a pic like that is EASILY something I could have done. It was probably a riot in the OR. The upsurge of punishing - and even prosecuting - victimless crimes in this country and in our field in particular makes me feel like I'm walking on egg shells every time I enter the hospital.

Sometimes I feel like I need to keep my head down and stay as invisible as possible so I can get through residency, get a job to pay off my loans and then get a different career with lower stakes.
 
This is most likely a textbook case of a little person going after a better person out of spite and bitterness. You have to get used to it as a doctor or any other highly accomplished person, because there's a lot of people out there who will be envious of your success and take pleasure in "bringing you down" as they say...down to their level. You meet these kinds of people all over the hospital. Your best bet is to neither be their friend nor their enemy, but rather totally indifferent towards them as to not give them any ammo to use against you. And they will take the smallest, most banal incident and blow it up to use against you, as in this case. But in the end remember these types of people will NEVER be happy in life. They will always feel inferior by the next more accomplished person who they know is better than them.
 
I don't care if they're miserable. It's thinking of how totally miserable I would be after one ill-conceived decision that's so unsettling.

Bitter, edgy, humorless people have more than just the power to hurt your feelings, they really can bring you to their level (or lower) for good. This senior surgeon - the chief resident, no less - is freaking UNEMPLOYED.

All those years of sacrifice totally erased because of a childish act called out by some vindictive control-freak? (BTW, good point about HIPAA violation...could easily have been the whistle-blower). It's pretty freaky. I suppose the guy can go get another residency spot...but it will be at least another year of residency, maybe 2-3 depending on what he can find.
 
secretwave101 said:
I don't care if they're miserable. It's thinking of how totally miserable I would be after one ill-conceived decision that's so unsettling.

Bitter, edgy, humorless people have more than just the power to hurt your feelings, they really can bring you to their level (or lower) for good. This senior surgeon - the chief resident, no less - is freaking UNEMPLOYED.

All those years of sacrifice totally erased because of a childish act called out by some vindictive control-freak? (BTW, good point about HIPAA violation...could easily have been the whistle-blower). It's pretty freaky. I suppose the guy can go get another residency spot...but it will be at least another year of residency, maybe 2-3 depending on what he can find.
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Yup. Nobody cares how many years you sacrificed and how hard you worked to get to where you are. In fact it will give those types of people even greater satisfaction bringing you down because of it by using some totally insignificant "incident" that they've gone out of their way to trump up.

And if it happens, rarely (if ever) will people come to back you up. Rather they'll sell you out if it means it'll quiet things down and make it easier on them.

That's why I say always look out for #1 because nobody else cares about you in this profession. Get through med school, get through residency, get your posh private practice attending gig with a respectable patient population and staff where you're less likely to have to deal with these miserable people than if you stay at a major hospital.
 
Couldn't agree more: Stay low. Limit risk. Protect. Cover. Sometimes these themes are the driving force behind my entire day.

Never dreamed I'd think this way back when I was a student out to change the world. Now I'm just focused on not waking up one day and suddenly being unable to feed my kids.
 
secretwave101 said:
Couldn't agree more: Stay low. Limit risk. Protect. Cover. Sometimes these themes are the driving force behind my entire day.

Never dreamed I'd think this way back when I was a student out to change the world. Now I'm just focused on not waking up one day and suddenly being unable to feed my kids.
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'Tis the way the world is these days. Everybody is out to get their piece of the pie, with a lot of people trying to trip you up along the way. Take care of you and your family, everybody else can go to hell. Because you know dang well they could care less, even if they pretend to care on the superficial outside. When it all comes right down to it, it's every man for himself in this vapid, soulless world.
 
secretwave101 said:
I suppose the guy can go get another residency spot...but it will be at least another year of residency, maybe 2-3 depending on what he can find.
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It will DEFINITELY be at least 2 years. The American Board of Surgery requires that your last two years be done in the same program. Therefore, Dr. Hansen must repeat 4th and 5th years of his surgical residency.
 
secretwave101 said:
This is absolutely freakifying.The upsurge of punishing - and even prosecuting - victimless crimes in this country and in our field in particular makes me feel like I'm walking on egg shells every time I enter the hospital.
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Yeah, and the amount was literally listed in the police file as $20. Pardon my skepticism but it seems that police here inflate the amount - makes the bust sound bigger. I have no idea how much $20 of that substance amounts to, but I cannot imagine its much. Its certainly not the French Connection. The guy would have gotten out when he is like 40 or 41 years of age, and have a hard time finding a job at Burger King as a felony ex-con. This guy was a hero one day, criminal the next over $20. His story was that he was in NY, fell in love with a girl from here that was visiting there - followed her out here, was also working as a fireman out here. She dumped him, he got depressed and started doing small amounts of drugs in an effort to self-medicate - perhaps to avoid any psyche label that might affect his career (see other thread on physicians with mental illness).

But a huge number of the prisons out here are privately owned. They do not want criminals that are hard to control : violent criminals etc. So there are alot of convictions of people who have some drugs, personal use amount - these people typically have a low risk rating (1/1 instead of 5/5 - in prisons here one number indicates their risk to the general public and the other the risk to prison population, some convicts are more dangerous either in or out of the prison) - they just want to do their time and get out. So politics are such that there is a large effort to incarcerate personal use over more serious crimes - makes the prisons jobs easier. They recently changed the DUI laws here - which were already some of the toughest in the country - DUI literally means under the influence of anything that impairs driving, including lack of sleep. You do not need to blow a positive breathalyzer here anymore, a police officer just needs to state you were visibly impaired - it could be from OTC cold medication. If you do happen to have an illegal alcohol level, then you can actually get TWO DUI charges - one for the officers observations and the other for the intoxication. But you can get one DUI here now, just from crossing a line when you are sleepy : good news for residents driving home late from a shift. And that one DUI is an automatic felony.
 
An anonymous picture of the patients genitalia is hardly going cause a loss of life for the patient. It was bad judgement on the doctors part, it would have been much better to describe it to everyone in the breakroom and get a laugh or two, but when there is evidence you are screwed. I would not take a picture, but I certainly would tell the story later. It reminds me of this one really great hernia surgery we did once that....... well that should be another thread.

TweetyPie said:
Absolutely, the "blue line of silence" means nothing to me. I don't believe in it.

Just so I'm clear: The same empathy that motivates us to keep our patients safe is the same empathy we should equally employ toward colleagues who find themselves with an overwhelming addiction. However, a patient's life/quality of life takes precedence over a loss of a reputation, a loss of a position, or ultimately a loss of a license/career. A dead patient will never work again. A maimed patient may suffer physically/psychologically the rest of their lives. A doc who loses his/her license has many other opportunities for leading a fulfilled and productive life.

These things should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis following a standard protocol. I really don't believe a cover-up is even ever necessary. If we make a mistake that harms a patient, we need to take responsibility for it and accept it. If we make mistakes that could potentially lead to the harm of a patient but didn't, then it can be dealt with discreetly, but definitively, such as rehabilitation. etc.

I have no pity on administrators, programs or hospitals, who engage in cover up because they didn't have an effective protocol in place, and because they did not, have opened them up to possible litigation.

As far as I know the "Hot Rod" guy lost his residency position, not his license.

Just curious, what religion keeps a person who is susceptible to addictions, free from such? With that kind of power, it sounds like a religion I could commit to (and I say this very sincerely) 🙂
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Misterioso said:
'Tis the way the world is these days. Everybody is out to get their piece of the pie, with a lot of people trying to trip you up along the way. Take care of you and your family, everybody else can go to hell. Because you know dang well they could care less, even if they pretend to care on the superficial outside. When it all comes right down to it, it's every man for himself in this vapid, soulless world.
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I wouldn't go that far. I'm only a PGY-2, after all. Give me another year in cynicism training...I'll get there, Mr. Miyagi.

Gotta send some props for dropping 'vapid' in the forums, though. Might be a first.
 
Quote by Doris Lessing, recent Nobel Prize novelist, speaking about the political correctness movement:

The trouble is that, with all popular movements, the lunatic fringe so quickly ceases to be a fringe; the tail begins to wag the dog. For every woman or man who is quietly and sensibly using the idea [of political correctness] to examine our assumptions, there are 20 rabble-rousers whose real motive is desire for power over others, no less rabble-rousers because they see themselves as anti-racists or feminists or whatever.
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secretwave101 said:
Couldn't agree more: Stay low. Limit risk. Protect. Cover. Sometimes these themes are the driving force behind my entire day.

Never dreamed I'd think this way back when I was a student out to change the world. Now I'm just focused on not waking up one day and suddenly being unable to feed my kids.
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👍

Good words to live by. I think it is different when you are out in your own practice with your own staff and are practicing in the community. Then I think you can more be yourself. The mixture of academics and medicine, and all the competitiveness that can entail, can sometimes make for a real snake pit environment, unfortunately.
 
Perhaps I'm crazy, but I see this incident as a really big deal. It seems just as bad as having a hidden video camera in a bathroom, etc. One of the important aspects of any procedure where sedation is required is trust that the physician will not abuse that sedation, which this resident clearly did.

One could argue that if someone is completely sedated and a surgeon fondles them, that there is "no real harm" -- the patient can't remember anything, no physical damage is done, etc. Yet, I would hope you would all agree that this is completely unacceptable.

In addition, studies have demonstrated that medical students and/or residents who have "ethical violations" like this during training are more likely to go on to formal disciplinary action by a board of medicine.

Does this resident deserve to be fired over this? None of us can answer this, since it probably depends on the background. If their performance had been perfect up until now, then perhaps continuing their training with some remediation plan would be reasonable. If they had multiple other issues/events occur previously, then terminating them was probably the right thing to do.
 
aProgDirector said:
Does this resident deserve to be fired over this? None of us can answer this, since it probably depends on the background. If their performance had been perfect up until now, then perhaps continuing their training with some remediation plan would be reasonable. If they had multiple other issues/events occur previously, then terminating them was probably the right thing to do.
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Obviously, as much as we want to defend one of our own, this was a very big deal. But I think one of the scary aspects of this (to me) is how close it comes to other, commonly accepted things we do. How many times have we said things like this to coworkers?

"Man, I just saw this lawyer in the ED with a BAL of .35."
"I had to work up this domestic violence victim, and she had all three of her kids with her."
"Want to see the picture of the wound we just debrided in the OR?"

etc etc.

Really, we violate HIPAA on a regular basis, both with our words and intraoperative pictures. We accept it, and reject Dr. Hansen's actions, because our intent is not purely to entertain, whereas his obviously was. But at the end of the day, we violate the "need to know" concept regularly, using dubious reasoning to justify it.

I just can't help but think how many stories I've told to coworkers, or intraoperative pictures I've shown to members of my department not on our team, that would be considered questionable in a strict interpretation of the Privacy Rule.
 
TweetyPie said:
others in your team may consider it a pompous, unforgivable act. This is what determines whether there will be a problem, not necessarily what policy states. Whether a policy is enforced is dependant upon what your most "purist" team member thinks.
If you don't know a particular team member, always play it safe. This is your career.
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I have this week off, and find myself doing stuff I normally don't do - watching TYRA. She had Jeff Probst on, the guy who created the TV show SURVIVOR. SHe asked him what lesson he most learned from watching the show over the years. He said it was how much people justify on a daily basis : "I normally would not do this, but in this situation...." . He said he also realized how much he did it, and not tries not to justify his own lapses of character but own the moment more.

One of my own life experiences is that the real "purists" often end up being the worst. Ex. We had a radio talk show out here called DR.LAURA. Often someone would call in and discuss something like having an affair, and she would get on her moral soapbox and call them a slut and tell them why they are so weak and bad. I hated her show but I often listened to it. I hated her. One day she was talking about how sexy she thought Wesley Snipes was and that she would leave her husband in a minute for him. I sent her a fax telling her what a hypocritical person that one statement indicated her to be - and what a "testosterone free zone" her husband must be to let her say something like that on the air. I also told her that my experience has been the more judgemental the person, the more likely they have some big moral skeleton in their closet. A few months later some guy posted a bunch of nude pictures of her and apparently the story behind it was it was this married guy she had an affair with, who had taken pictures of her during their tryst.

That is what bothers me most about the judgemental purists is that they often are the worst gossipers, etc. Its like an ex-smoker that smells someone smoking - they make the most noise about it.... "I HATE smokers" they say loudly. But many of these same backstabbing hypocritical purists smile in your face and act friendly. We all need someone to talk to about the stresses and oddities of your work, but I do think you have to assume most people are not your friends. i.e. they can't really be trusted.

I think everyone does the same sort of thing, I don't think most people take pictures, but I am sure everyone talks about cases, people etc at some point to people not involved in the case. Its innappropriate but its like nose picking, everyone does it at some point.

You got to learn when to avoid trouble. For example I try to always avoid trouble with religion. When Tweetiepie facetiously posted : Just curious, what religion keeps a person who is susceptible to addictions, free from such? With that kind of power, it sounds like a religion I could commit to (and I say this very sincerely) 🙂 - I knew it was a bait. So I responded in a PM, to which they replied with some mean-spirited response - but at least it happened in PM's and not publicly, thus avoiding that drama.

Avoid drama in residency. Hospitals are dysfunctional environments, full of a great many dysfunctional people. Don't date fellow residents. Have a life outside your program - people uninvolved, who you can trust, or who at least can't screw with you professionally. Watch what you say. Talking crap to people outside your residency is less likely to filter back to the people at the program/hospital. Don't leave a hard copy trail of anything, such as pictures of a patients genitalia - dang, how smart can a surgery resident be who could not see where that was going.
 
aProgDirector said:
Perhaps I'm crazy, but I see this incident as a really big deal. It seems just as bad as having a hidden video camera in a bathroom, etc. One of the important aspects of any procedure where sedation is required is trust that the physician will not abuse that sedation, which this resident clearly did.

One could argue that if someone is completely sedated and a surgeon fondles them, that there is "no real harm" -- the patient can't remember anything, no physical damage is done, etc. Yet, I would hope you would all agree that this is completely unacceptable.

In addition, studies have demonstrated that medical students and/or residents who have "ethical violations" like this during training are more likely to go on to formal disciplinary action by a board of medicine.

Does this resident deserve to be fired over this? None of us can answer this, since it probably depends on the background. If their performance had been perfect up until now, then perhaps continuing their training with some remediation plan would be reasonable. If they had multiple other issues/events occur previously, then terminating them was probably the right thing to do.
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This was kind of the point that I was trying to make earlier. I frequently post about the problems with political correctness and the stifling environment that is becoming modern American life. In this particular case however, I really can't figure out why we are all trying so hard to justify this particular action. It really does seem unacceptable. It really sounds more like a fear gut reaction, in which we are so afraid that someone will punish us for something else that we do, that we can't take a step back and question the highly inappropriate actions taken by this resident.

I still claim that the person who called a newspaper and used names should be culpable as well.

Mayo HAS to distance themselves from this. Most people will be a little concerned to be put under in a place where there is a risk that people will photograph their genitals and use it to make fun of them behind their backs. There are other options in the Phoenix area, and Mayo still has to compete.
 
aProgDirector said:
Perhaps I'm crazy, but I see this incident as a really big deal. It seems just as bad as having a hidden video camera in a bathroom, etc. One of the important aspects of any procedure where sedation is required is trust that the physician will not abuse that sedation, which this resident clearly did.

One could argue that if someone is completely sedated and a surgeon fondles them, that there is "no real harm" -- the patient can't remember anything, no physical damage is done, etc. Yet, I would hope you would all agree that this is completely unacceptable.

In addition, studies have demonstrated that medical students and/or residents who have "ethical violations" like this during training are more likely to go on to formal disciplinary action by a board of medicine.

Does this resident deserve to be fired over this? None of us can answer this, since it probably depends on the background. If their performance had been perfect up until now, then perhaps continuing their training with some remediation plan would be reasonable. If they had multiple other issues/events occur previously, then terminating them was probably the right thing to do.
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Finally, someone who shares my thoughts on the whole encounter. I think it's a big deal too (would you want pictures of any of your rediculous looking parts shared? no) but I think firing him is extreme (he didn't go give the pictures out to the papers nor did he spread the story to the paper, someone else did it and that person should be severely punished for breaking the confidentiality rules). Unfortunately, I believe life is unfair as well... the institution will sacrifice you when it has to.

__powerdeadhorse___by_ixat.gif

Take your damage with grace and move on.
 
TweetyPie said:
Huh? 😕

Do you want to specifically reference where I was "facitious" or "mean-spirited" to you???

I would appreciate it if you would try to refrain from calling me out personally with an ad hominen attack such as calling me "facitious" and "mean-spirited" and stick to the OP's topic.
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Your facetious comment was asking what religion would protect people from addictions and that you would be sincerely interested. You were, and I knew you were, simply trying to draw me out to bash me about religion. That is why I elected to do it in a private message, so your hastiness could be spilled out there. Your response proved you had no interest in all about knowing what such religion it may be, it was simply an attempt to draw me in for your favorite game: bashing others from an arrogant stance.

For the sake of bringing others up to speed, I simply sent a PM to tweety, telling him what religion I belonged to - no effort to prosyletize, and that several studies show world wide and nationwide (USA) the religion I belong to has a startling low use and abuse of alcohol. In comparison I mentioned another popular religion (PR) that promotes abstinence from all alcohol, yet statistically has the highest rate of alcoholism in the world - showing that religious influence and not just promoting teetotaling makes a difference.

I was referencing several studies, one of which was a government sponsored study showing that the religion I belong to has the lowest abuse of drugs and alcohol of any religious group except for devout Jews. Tweety attacked my religion by saying the data is not credible because the popular religion (PR) is simply being honest and my church must be supressing the data, not allowing the true statistics to be released. Tweety had read nothing on the research, did not know the source, and so had nothing to make such a statement on, it was simply a mean spirited attack. Does anyone really suspect that a religion can alter government data like that? Conspiracy theorists unite 🙄.

*******

******It also along with devout Jews and 7th Day Adventists boasts the highest levels of health. Members of the church I belong too also boast one of the highest levels of college education. One thing I find dissapppointing and interesting is the religion I belong to has a high level of anti-depressant use (I guess the church was unable to suppress that information).

Anyway, data that is drawn from many source including public services, the legal courts, etc all indicate that when comparing 3 groups (DWC, other religions and no religion) there is a statistically significant difference in frequency of alcohol use, source of alcohol, and age of first use. I was not trying to make that point when I simply stated in post #20 of this thread "I never drink or take drugs due to religious reasons, but I still understand people that do so occassionally.", from which Tweety tried to bait me into his attack.

In any event, I know the medical profession draws alot of alcoholics who try to save lives in a hospital one day and then potentially kill them while driving drunk the next, and alot who use promiscuity to cope with stress, and alot of other addictive behaviors. Although I do not participate in these things, I do understand that many people are unable to cope with stress in other ways.

I certainly find the number of drunks in the profession more disturbing than a practical joke about genitalia - even though here again, besides the fact I would not take a gentalia photo based on religious reasons, I am even more amazed that a so-called college educated person (let alone a surgeon) would do something this stupid. I know this offends many of you as it may hit close to home with your drinking habits, but I feel driving drunk is worse than a photo of genitalia. I also have to admit how many here are so sympathetic with the frequent posts by doctors admitting they are drunks and frequently not only drive drunk but repeatedly are so drunk so often behind the wheel that they get numerous DUI's.

Why the hell would anyone need more than 1 DUI? I know doctors are supposed to be "smart" but I think Forrest Gump is correct about stupid is as stupid does. Anyone who has numerous DUI's is as stupid (and dangerous) as it gets. 2 DUI's ought to be a permanent and irrevocable loss of medical license or inability to obtain one

Anyone who would advocate making a stink of a gentalia picture but then offer sympathy to a doctor with numerous DUI's is not worthy of the title doctor themselves. It certainly is a high level of hypocrisy when it comes to covering up versus eating our own.
 
No offense, but this is getting off-topic and boring. Don't hijack the thread...especially with endless tomes of "government-funded studies prove" posts! 😴
 
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