Dentistry Mentoring Thread

mano82 said:

I don't exactly know that will i be able to pick and choose as i have 87 in nbde 1 and a gpa 4 , 9 distinctions and 3 yr experience ....but some body told me tht if in few months you will get acceptance into other school thn u can transfer from 1 school to another school....i don't know is this information regarding transfer is right or not!

Can you plz clarify on this ,
Thanks for your time and patience,
mano

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Hello,

I can tell you that transfering from one school to another is not an option. You have to apply to another school if you want to enroll in that school. Or you can turn down NYU now and find another cheaper school. However, you may discard a chance that may not come again. You can discuss your concern with NYU and see what they think. But do not tell them you plan to apply to another school once you start NYU as that will ask for disaster. DP

abr said:

Thank you for taking your time to answer questions!

I was unable to read through all of the posts, so I apologize if I am asking something that has already been answered.

I have decided to switch my to pre-dental. I have done some shadowing and talked to people in the field, and I am very excited about going to dental school in the near future.

So, here is my dilemma. Currently, I am an Animal Science major. I am in my second year of undergraduate course work, but I have enough credits to classify me as a junior. If I continue with an Animal Science major, I will have to take Animal Physiology, Breeding Phys., Advanced Nutrition, Microbiology, an Ag Statistics class, and several more animal science classes...
I really have an interest in Animal Science, but these classes are not encompassed in my interests, and I do not feel I will benefit greatly from them.

I took a PSYC course this semester, and I have been enjoying it. I am thinking of switching my major to psychology because the classes would be more enjoyable. I do not want to seem like I am taking an easy route, but I do not see a reason to take several difficult animal science classes that do not interest me... I have no interest in feeding or repro.. At all. At the same time, I do not know if it would be worth it to start all over with a new major, but I feel that having a psyc major would "separate" me from other students.

Is psychology an acceptable major? As long as I have good grades in the upper-level science classes, dental admissions committees shouldn't frown at my choice of major, right? Currently, my GPA is 3.96. I have taken one semester of Organic Chemistry, am on the second semester right now, and still need to take Biochem and Physics. Otherwise, I am getting close to completing the requirements.

Also, in dental school, how much "free" time did you typically have per day? I am sure it is quite busy. The reason I ask is because, at the current moment, I have compete regularly in equestrian activities. I have one horse at college with me, and I spend approximately 2 hours a day at the stable. It is difficult to fit riding and studying in with my 18-credit semesters, but I have been able to balance it. Is balancing a hobby hard in dental school? I view my horse as a stress-reliever, and I would like to continue riding competitively throughout dental school. I understand that it may not be plausible, but I thought I would get your input on that as well.

Thank you!

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Hello,

I am glad that you are considering dentistry. You will find that you have just made the best career choice! Regarding your questions, I would recommend the following:

1. Since you are close to getting your BS in AS, I would stick with it rather than changing your major. However, you are only still in your second year so if you find something else that you enjoy then you should consider switching. It does not matter what degree you have as long as you have a good GPA and DAT score. In my opinion, the "stranger" the undergraduate degree, the more they will notice you and that makes you stand out in the crowd. When I applied to DS 18 years ago, my degree in aerospace engineering really helped me out greatly. You should pick a major that gives you the best chance of getting a high GPA as the stats are more important than your choice of major.


2. Regarding life in dental school, I can't answer for you as each person handles the academic load differently. The courses in DS are not hard at all. It is just the sheer numbers of exams, projects that get thrown at you. In my personal experience at UMKC , first year was like in my undergraduate but second year was hell for me. I slept on average 4 hours a night. However, third year was much easier and I built and flown radio control planes in the fourth. Not to mention many nights out dating, fishing and drinking beers with my school budies. But at the same time, I have known some who spent more time than me studying and the majority of my classmates studied way less. I can say that DS will be more busy than the typical undergrad though.

Good luck with your future endevors! DP

abr said:

I have a few more questions to add to my first response:

First, I talked to a pre-dental advisor at my school today, and they recommended that I stick with my Animal Science major because I do not have far to go before completion.
How will an Animal Science B.S. look to the admission committee? I don't want them to think I am a pre-vet wanna-be. I chose this field because a lot of the subjects interest me, but I don't want my choice to count against me.

Secondly, would you recommend taking an Anatomy and Physiology class? It is not required for my home-state dental school. The course offered at my University is a 2-semester course. In addition, an Animal Physiology course is required for the Animal Science major. I may be able to subsitute the Human Anatomy/Phys course for the Animal Science version, but I have heard that the Animal Science version is taught out of a human text. Would it be better to take the Human Anatomy and Phys course, or should I just stay on track with my major (1 semester Animal Science Phys course)? Like I said, the human anatomy and physiology course it is not required, but it is "recommended" for the schools I would like to attend.

Thanks in advance!

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Hi,

If you plan to stay on track with your current major, then you need to take whatever needed to fullfil the graduation requirement. You do not need to take anything that is not required for your state DS. Why waste money, time, effort for something that you do not need? Plus the fact that you may not do well and hurt your GPA in the process. So the moral of the story is "if it ain't required, then forget about it". DP

coke1 said:

I hope not to discourage anyone on this forum, but I wanted to seek advice on what I can possibly do with 2 years of dental schooling (as opposed to finishing all 4)? What can I say? Though I was thankfully accepted to a school, I also really disliked my school environment and found it very difficult to concentrate and focus on my studies. (I'm not here to make excuses, but I did find it hard to be at a school like Temple, which by the way has a great clinical program.) Basically, I wasn't performing too hot in my classes and was asked to leave. I had thought of transferring schools while I was a student but when I asked my admissions counselor on information regarding transferring, I was told that it rarely happens, if never. So I tried sticking though with where I was, but as you can see now I didn't.

I just want to know what my options are from this point. What can I do with 2 years of medical science coursework? And, what are my chances of being accepted to another school if I reapply? Thanks in advance for your advice!

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Hello,

Sorry to hear about your predicament. Once you are dismissed from DS (as opposed to leave of absence), you have a strike against you on your records. That indicates you are unable to handle the academic load in professional school. Since you did poorly in the classes, they are pretty much of no use as far as using them to fullfil future academic requirements in whatever field you plan to pursue. You need to sit down and take the time to assess why you did not do well. Then ask yourself what you can do to prevent this from happening again. Professional school is tough, full of politics, bull crap, bullies and you need to keep your head clear and be determined to make it through. When I was a resident, I was pushed around, yelled in the face by a faculty, charts thrown at me, told to "get the hell out" on many occasions. I was humiliated to a point of breaking. However, I kept my cool and now I have the credentials that no one can take away. It's a cruel world but you have to accept and move on. Now, if your passion is in dentistry then you should reapply and write a very good personal statement on why you should be given a second chance. At the same time, you need to occupy yourself in academics either enrolling in a post graduate program or just taking classes at the university level. Long silent academic inactivity is a killer so you need to keep going. You must show some proof that you are improving academically and you will not fail the second time. By all means, do NOT blame on the school's enviroments for your failure even if it is on your personal statement. If you show evidence that you have turn around for the better, I think you will have a good shot at being readmitted.

If motivation is a problem then ask yourself if dentistry is for you. This is a question that only you can give. You should choose a career that you truly enjoy doing and don't settle for anything less.

What can you do with your two year DS experience? Well since you did not do well, they can't be used as bargaining chips for anything in the academic world. However in personal sense, this experience will give you a chance to evaluate your career goals and choices, not to mention making you wiser. I truly believe that in worst times as bad as they may be, they will make you become a stronger person.

Please let me know if I can be of more help. DP

coke1 said:

Thanks for your response. I have to admit that I was carrying a lot of emotional baggage into school and also didn't enjoy the program especially as we got into the more 'dental' aspects. So, yes, dental school was probably not the best place for me, but what I would like to know is what my basic medical sciences could lend itself into within the working sector? It was the dental classes that I failed as opposed to the basic sciences. I'm still interested in the health field. You mentioned continuing classes, but which courses would you recommend? Thank you again for your help.

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Hi,

Well it appears that dentistry is not for you. With your science background, you can choose a variety of fields such as medicine, pharmacy or any other healthcare related areas. You should evaluate what you like to do and then work hard to achieve your goal. If dentistry is too limited then perhaps you should think about medicine. If you have difficulty in getting in US medical schools, then consider foreign medical schools. Getting a US residency slot after graduation is more of the norm now rather than an exception like in the past. I have known many successful foreign graduates who are practicing now in the States. Becoming a licensed physician in the US is easier than you think. Regarding what courses you should take, that all depends on what you plan to study. You should schedule with your health career advisor to discuss your future options. DP

bbbkkk said:

Dear Dr. Phan,

I am debating whether I should apply for the entering class of 2009 or 2010.

I am a Canadian 4th year science undergraduate student and I plan on finishing organic chem I & II from May-June and then writing the US DAT at the end of August 2008. This will give me about 2 months full time to study for the DAT. In your opinion, do you think the study period is adequate?

Also, I will submit the application/LOR/statement in June and since it will take approx. 3-4 weeks for the schools to get my DAT scores, so the school will not have my COMPLETED application until October. My major concern is whether this is considered "late" and whether it will affect my chances for the 2009 cycle?

I noticed you have a background in aerospace engineering and I am curious how that has helped you in dentistry. My undergraduate background is ultrasound/medical imaging, how do you see my skillset being used in dentistry?

Thank you for your insight and advice.

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Hello,

Thank you for visting my Dentistry Mentoring Thread. About two months to prepare for the DAT?That depends on how well you do on your chemistry courses. Also that depends on how well you do on practice DAT tests. In my case, I did about 10 practice DAT tests and when I was able to get a consistent 19-21, then I went ahead and took the real thing. I would rather wait and score well as opposed getting a poor score. You should do some practice tests to see how well you fare. The PAT can be difficult to master. If you struggle then I suggest you take some time to master it.

You want to apply early but if your GPA and DAT score is good, then go for it. One thing you don't want to have is poor stats due to rushing to complete the application. It's better to be a year later but solid stats rather than the other way around. A year delay is nothing and it will arrive before you know it. However, make sure you are involved academically or in community service rather than a year spent in Aruba doing nothing. Academic inactivity is not good on the resume.

My degree in aerospace engineering helped me greatly when I applied since it made my application stand out from others. Other than that, it is nothing but a nice piece of paper hanging on my office wall. DP

wendy81 said:

I got into Dental school in January and found out I was pregnant not too long ago. I don't know whether I should get a deferment or who to talk to without screwing myself over. The letter of acceptance said it was only for this entering class. I believe I can do it, I've wanted to be a dentist for a long time now, but I also am a realist and know I wouldn't be getting or giving the best, and could let someone else have this year's place. What should I do? Thanks

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Hello,

Congratulations to your acceptance and I am very proud of your achievement! You should discuss your pregnancy with the school's Students Affairs. They know how hard it is to gain admission and how difficult equally to parent and study at a same time. I am sure they will have a solution for you. Let me know how it goes. DP

dr_pm said:

Hello Dr.
I am going to graduate in may 2008. I am International dentist and have about 8 months of experience in my country (India). I am at UIC dental school and plan to move to Washington State. I am having some issues on deciding what path to take from this point forward. My goal is to have a practice of my own for sure. I am just confused as to should I go ahead with this right now or I should associate or join corporate dental places for a year or two and then start up the practice. I am also stressed reading about associate problems like not having control of what procedures you do and still having to report to someone after having gone through that in the school... I will greatly appreciate if you can provide advice on this subject. I guess the problem I am having is that I don't know if starting up practice after graduation is good idea or I am the only one thinking like this.
Thanks so much

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Hello,

The only private practice experience I had was my faculty practice when I taught at UT Memphis. Therefore I am not well versed in private practice related issues. There is a mentoring thread about dentistry private practice in the Mentor Forum that you may want to visit. In my personal opinion, it is much safer financially to find a practice that guarantees a fixed income with a certain length of time. Then as you gain confidence and built your reputation, you can start looking to have your own office or join an associate. Make sure you have a lawyer looking over the contract before you sign if you choose the later route. You may check into teaching at dental schools or goverment jobs (like the one I have) while you are investigating your future goal. Everything has pluses and minuses and all depends on what fits your lifestyle. DP

SugarNaCl said:

Why did you decide to go into dentistry in the first place, Dr. Phan?

Your posts have given encouragement to my friend who is in her 2nd year of dental school and was starting to think about medicine because she was interested in that too and she had talked it up for so long that her family didn't think she was serious about the dental profession. Thanks.

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Hello,

That is a question that I was asked many times since my background was in aerospace engineering. You can find a detailed answer by visiting here if you have not already done so.

http://studentdoctor.net/blog/2007/...inh-phan-dds-ms-maxillofacial-prosthodontics/

Let me sum up to say that it is the best thing happened to me and such a blessing! I hope all aspiring dentists will enjoy this as much as I have enjoyed mine!

Regarding your friend, she needs to evaluate what she wants to do as her future career. There is nothing more tragic than spending a fortune on a dental degree that she is not happy of. If medicine is her calling, she needs to quit now and apply to medical schools. Considering the sheer numbers of US medical schools and the ease of getting admittted to foreign schools (and getting matched to residency slots), there is no reason why anyone should consider dentistry if it is not his/her first choice. The longer she is in dental school, the harder to get out. Each career has pluses and minuses and she should look at all the factors rather than based on family or perceptions that are not her own. At the end of a day, eveyone will have forgotten what she does except her who must live with the decision she makes. DP

traveljunkie1 said:

Dr. Phan,

Thanks for all your great posts! I am almost 2 yrs out of
dental school and considering doing a pros residency. I have not had a
working relationship with a prosthodontists nor do I know of any pros
residents. I would value your opinion and any advice you may have about
what to expect out of a prosthodontics residency(besides 3 gruelling years).

Thanks

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Hello,

I am glad that you are considering prosthodontic residency. If you like to enhance the understanding of restorative procedures, rationales then this is for you. After completion of your training, you will be able to look at a difficult case and know what to do with it right away (in most cases). You will also see that as prosthodontist, you will be highly marketable since you are a highly trained restorative dentist. The toughest thing about the training is the laboratory work that you must do yourself. If you are not very good in waxing (teeth- not body ) you will have to work much harder than ones who are blessed with this absolute needed skill. In all specialties, prosthodontic has the highest overhead cost due to laboratory expenses but as a specialist, you can charge at a higher fee. In my opinion, there is no other specialty that gives you such an indepth study of dentistry and I am glad what I have choosen to become. DP

anfleisch said:

I have been exposed to dental medicine all my life as my father practices endodontics in northeast Pennsylvania. He attended stonybrook in the '70's and then Einstein for his residency. However, he does not think endodontics has a future, since more and more cases seem logical to simply extract the tooth. I was going back and forth between medical school and dental school for several years now; though, I have recently contented that dental school would be the right choice. I am set on specializing and as of right now have my eyes set on Ortho. I know people say you cannot come into dental school saying you will specialize. However, I have always thought of doing that specialty since I was exposed to a well run practice in the same complex as my father's. My father is also a big advocate for me going into that specialty. I have a couple questions about my potential future in applying to dental schools and would like some insight on a few of my concerns. First, I attend Penn State University and have a 4.0 GPA even though I am almost finished with all the prerequisites and over 2/3 of my credits in two years. I work in a prestigious lab on cell regulation and I feel I will be able to do well on the DAT. My question is how I should approach dental school applications with high grades and looking to specialize. The truth is, my father, working in Endo, talks down on GP skills and has a bad outlook. This makes me weary of whether I would actually want to become just a GP, though I realize he deals with a select few referral GPs who may or may not be inept. I am convinced I will be able to transfer my abilities to dental school; however, nothing is certain. I was wondering if I should look to gain scholarship to dental school or just try to go to the best school. Which school would I have the best chance of gaining entry to this specialty. My dad has a bad opinion of Harvard and U of Penn schools since they do not have much clinical, and especially U of Penn. He thinks it is more like a dental student factory. His opinion stems from experiences at his Einstein residency where they shared classes with less prepared students at Penn. However, I know these two schools along with Columbia put more students in residencies. Is there statistics on which schools send their students to residencies? Also, what is the effect of pass/fail grading. Some people say it is better to go to a school with lesser students to be at the very top of the class.
Sorry for such a long email, I appreciate any insight on my situation.

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Hello,

Thank you for your inquiry. You are on the right track of possibly choosing dentistry as the career. You will not regret your decision I assure you. Unfortunately I believe your father is way of track when comes to his opinions about GP and dental education as a whole. Endodontic is one of the most difficult specialties to gain admission. As long as there is dentistry, there will always be the need for endodontists. If endodontics has no future, then why on earth anyone would consider this specialty? There must be a reason for its demand. Now, for your quest to become an orthodontist we need to look at this carefully. It is OK to go to dental school wanting to specialize. In my first year, I could tell so and so wanted to be this and that and I was right. After 4 years, almost all went into their predetermined specialties. While it is all right wanting to specialize, it is not OK to go to dental school just to become an orthodontist and accept no other alternatives. There is a big difference between wanting and actually becoming one. Orthodontics is highly sought after because of the income potential and appealing nature of the job. The field is highly competitive and not everyone who wants to be one can become one. You need to ask yourself if you can have a satisfying career still if you are not an orthodontist. If you think orthodontics is your only motive for pursuing dental education, then I suggest you rethink your career strategy. It’s like going to law school with the sole intention of becoming Supreme Court Judge. Will you be happy if you end up becoming the TV "Heavy Hitter" instead? With that, you should go into dentistry with an open mind. Be prepared of the possibility that you may not become what you wish and have to settle for something else. Accept the possibilities that you may practice as a GP or a prosthodontist just like me! If you cannot accept this fact, then I think you should reevaluate your career choice. I strongly recommend you to shadow as many dentists as you can and explore different specialties. There is so much more than what appeals to you right now.

If you want to specialize, you need to keep that to yourself while in dental school. If you publicly announce your intention, you will set yourself up as a scapegoat. Your peers and your professors will have different expectations of you. And if you cannot deliver your "promise", how will you look in front of your classmates? Just like from the quote in the movie Scarface "…the guys who want it all, cigar champaign… they don’t last...". Just work hard, give your best and gratefully accept what ever comes your way.

Dental education has come a long way since the 70's. Every school WILL produce competent clinicians whether it is Harvard or UMKC (my school). Ivy League schools surely sound impressive at Thanksgiving dinner table but has no play in your chances to specialize. What matters are your personality, maturity, motivation, work ethics, grades, board scores, extra curricular activities and most often forgotten attribute… luck. Choose the school that offers lower tuition and live in a city that has lesser cost of living. Minimize your debt as dental education nowadays is very expensive.

There is much for you to think about at this stage. I strongly recommend you explore further in the field of dentistry. There is so much to learn and so many different disciplines to investigate. I know many GPs living the American dream and you shouldn't be too occupied of becoming the orthodontist right now. Your task at hand is to build up your credentials and getting admitted to Dental school. Anything else is secondary at this point. DP

Hello all,

By the time you reach this page, perhaps you are already in your quest to become a dentist or merely entertaining the notion. I hope the following information will help you to choose the right career path.

1. Why dentistry?

This is a common question that the admission committee asks at the interview or even you ask yourself. This is the question that you can only answer. The only way to know is by shadowing your local dentists to see what the work entails. You should do this with general practitioners as well as specialists and try as many offices as you can. One practice can be so boring but others may be an eye opener for you. You really need to see this first hand as reading from the Net or career brochure tends to give you a biased view (as with any career). As for me, dentistry is helping people to improve their functions and appearances, having comfortable income, prestige and respect from friends and colleagues and tremendous job satisfaction; all in one package.

2. How competitive is to gain admission?

Dentistry from the high in the mid seventies and the slump in mid eighties has made a serious comeback making it among the most desirable choices in health careers today. Data gathered in the past 10 years has shown an increase in overall GPA and DAT score trend as well as numbers of applicants. That being said, you need to have competitive stats. How competitive? You can find out by inquiring the data of the current entering class for the schools you plan to apply. I would say you have a good chance if you are within the stats for last year's successful applicants. As of this writing, I say an overall GPA of 3.5 and DAT above 20 would have a competitive edge.

3. Do I need to have a Bachelor Degree for admission to Dental schools?

The short answer is No. As long as you have completed all the courses required for admission and have taken the DAT, you are eligible to apply. However, due to the majority of applicants with BS or advanced degrees, you need to have stellar grades and DAT score to push you above others with completed degrees. I personally do not recommend anyone taking this approach since you chance of getting good grades is lower than if you spread the load over the four years. It is all about the stats and you need to get them as best as you can even if it takes you 4 years or longer to achieve them.

4. I am a nontraditional applicant. Do I have a chance?

Non traditional could mean someone who is "different" than the majority of applicants such as being older, being out of school for many years or people with "non-science" educational or career background such as musician, engineers or even police officers… Do these people have a chance? The short answer is Yes. It does not matter what your past education was as long as you have all the requirements and did well on them. I have seen people entering dentistry from all types of backgrounds so do not let your non-traditional past preventing you from applying to dental schools. Age in my opinion is a huge plus that can play in your favor. Age means maturity and that shows you are serious about choosing dentistry especially when you are leaving your current career to make a chance. I am always impressed at ones who are leaving the comfort zone in their midlife career to consider dentistry.

5. Is it OK to go to community colleges?

As a general rule, courses taken at CC level do not have much weight in your application and should be avoided. In addition, some dental schools do not accept certain courses taken at CC. Your best bet is to enroll in a four year university and obtain your requirements. Another reason is that dental school curriculum is very rigorous and a four year university will prepare you better for the transition.

6. Do I need to go to an Ivy League school to increase my chances?

If two people have identical stats and one is from Harvard and the other is from an "average" school, I would say probably the first one will win. However, if the first one has subpar stats; I don't think any big name school will bail you out regardless of its status. That means you should pick a school that is cheap in tuition, live in a city with lower cost of living and pick a major that gives you best possible GPA.

7. I want to do dentistry as a backup career. Is that a good idea?

There is nothing wrong of considering dentistry as an alternative career if you cannot get your first choice. There is nothing wrong with a football player who failed to make the team to consider getting into professional wrestling. However, you should know that you may not be fulfilled when the path you take is not the one you would rather be on. A common question is if dentistry should be considered as a backup to medicine. I have seen people who tried this path and I can tell you it is not a good idea. Of what I know now about medical education in US, you should NOT consider dentistry if you prefer medicine. That is because dentistry and medicine are different in treatment approach and the nature of work. With medical schools entering stats nearly on par with dentistry as well as a sheer numbers of foreign schools available, anyone who can get dental school admission should be able to get into the medical program without difficulty.

8. I have heard dentists are making big bucks right out of school. Is that
true?

This question is impossible to answer because there are so many factors involved with an individual. The majority of dentists work in private practices so the income depends on numbers of hours worked, the number of patients seen, the time taken to complete certain procedures, the rate of compensation, the overhead cost as well as the business skill. I can say that dentists on an average are making more per hour than other health career professionals when compared in private sectors. Beware of what you read on the magazines regarding the salary for certain jobs however. I can tell you these are way off and have little value in what you actually will make. Dentistry has great income potential but certainly guarantees nothing.

9. Dental school is so expensive. Is it worth it?

Nowadays it is not uncommon to have 200K or more debt after graduation from dental schools. It is a frightening thought to say the least but you need to put it in perspective. You are not investing years of school and a large debt to make minimum wage here. Once graduated, you will be in a position to make salary that is among the top wages in the country. Having six digit incomes with a 200K debt is a very good investment in my view.

10. I am worried about having good manual dexterity for dentistry. Am I over worried?

Yes. You are worrying too much. This is a common concern among aspiring dental students. However, the fear is much worse than the reality. The numbers of students who dropped out due to problems with dexterity is extremely low. I only lost one student from hand skill problem in the two years I taught. It is rare so you need not to worry. It is a learned skill and you will have plenty of time to get it perfected.

I will post some more questions and answers as I think of them. If you have any concerns, please feel free to ask and I will post the replies as soon as I can. DP

ttom said:

Hi Dr. Phan,
First of all, I want to thank you for the time and effort you put into this forum! I've learned a great deal reading your posts! Tell you the truth I already got accepted to UTSCSA (San Antonio) dental school, but I just couldn't stop reading this thread. I wish I had read this last year, it would've made my interview preparation a lot easier.
The questions you posted are great. I've tried to search those questions for so long on Yahoo and Google. Though I did find some, but not nearly as comprehensive. What I also appreciate are your posts with the "Do's and Don'ts".
Anyway, aside from my appreciation, I want to ask if you could also post some replies to the questions you wrote on post #87. I understand that the best answers are the ones that comes from the individual. Honesty is the best policy, yes. But sometimes being honest and try my best is not The Best. For me, I incorporated other people's answers (if I view them better than mine) and made mine better.
Now since you have tons of experience from both sides, as an interviewee and the interviewer, your answers will sure give some oohhs and ahhs. I have a few friends who wanted to go to dental school as well. They came to me and asked for advices about interviews, but I've already forgotten most of the questions/responses. When I saw your list, I was so happy! But please, give me (us) some of your responses. If you have time, please put some more do's and don'ts. Thank you in advance for your time!

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Hello,

Thank you for your kind words. I hope my thread will make things a little bit easier when applying to Dental schools. Regarding answering the questions on my Post #87, since each person is unique, only that particular person can have the right response. It is often to feel intimidated when being interviewed . My advice is to "see" the interviewer as a person you are talking to at your local pub but with much respect. Talk to that person as if you are talking to your friend. And best of all …. RELAX. By the time you reach the interview stage, you are a serious contender so there is no need to feel inadequate. Here are some more tips I thought of:


1. Point out your strength and accomplishments.
Mention why you will be able to handle the rigors of the professional education and correlate that with the difficult courses you took in college. Dental schools don't want to accept students who can't complete the program. It is not profitable and not to mention school's reputation at stake too.

2. Emphasis what you have done to choose dentistry as a career. Tell them about your shadowing experience and what have made you to choose this career over others such as medicine and so forth.

3. Answer the questions and back up with your real life experience. That is to make the answers more interesting to converse. Don't mention the events that are too sad or controversial.

4. Don't joke around too much.
Remember that you need to be relaxed but you must treat the person with respect since he/she is holding the gate key to your education. You do not want to be perceived as disrespectful.

5. Do not volunteer to disclose negative events in your education or in personal life unless asked. I was once asked if I have done anything bad in my life. My answer was that "Well, I was in prison once". It sure raised his eye browse but after he heard my story, he was in awe. Trust me, I didn't doing anything illegal.

6. Make your "weaknesses" into positive traits.
A common question is "What are your weaknesses"? You can answer "I am a perfectionist", "I am too sensitive or I have too much emotional attachment with my patients …" True, these can be weaknesses but they are desirable. Perfectionism means quality dentistry. Sensitiveness means you will have a good bed-side or chair-side manner. Emotional attachments mean you care deeply for your patients.

7.Don't make excuses such as receiving a bad grade or a test score.
I am sure there are cases where it is legitimate but being fully responsible for your actions is a much better thing to say at the interview. You should also mention what you have done since then to improve and what you have learned from the experience.

Good luck and please let me know if I can be of more help. DP

Writing Personal Statement Suggestions

Hello all future colleagues,

I am sure there are many guidelines in writing PS and I would like to offer mine. I hope you will incorporate my suggestions and others to make yours into an effective statement.

1. Entice the reader from the beginning.
Make a grand entrance to get the reader to investigate further rather than just skimming the pages. Remember that the AC reads these all the time so you need to make yours interesting. It could be a visit to your dentist or a personal event that played an impact in your life. However, do not bore the reader with your life story but short and sweet to the point since you will have much more to say later on.

2. Indicate what you want to have in a career and tie that with dentistry.
Show the reader what you find in dentistry that makes you know that this IS it. For example, being able to make a difference in a person's life and the gratification that follows, the artistic nature of the profession (if you are an artist make sure to mention here too), the opportunity for problem solving (such as restoration of a manipulated dentition), the surgical nature (like oral or periodontal surgery) and the opportunity to interact with patients on a daily basis.

3. Demonstrate what you have accomplished to make you a successful dental graduate.
This section is VERY important for borderline applicants. Dental schools do not want to take chances on students who may not make through the program. You need to indicate what you have done to rectify the misfortunes such as doing well on repeated class, getting good grades in difficult courses, increase in GPA trend, being able to handle more credits per semester and so forth. By all means, do NOT make excuses but note what you have learned from your experience and how you demonstrated you turned around for the better. If you are a solid applicant, you should mention your strengths but don't boast as it will bore the reader really quick. Try to have some data to back up your claims. If you say you have an artistic mind then back it up such as playing musical instruments. If you have manual dexterity then back it up such as model building and so forth. Don't claim on empty data.

4. Demonstrate how you will make positive contributions to the field.
If you plan to go into teaching or setting up a practice in the rural area, then you should mention that. If you plan to do missionary trips then make that known. If you plan to get into research while in school or as a career then be sure to let it known too. Faculty is always looking for students to do research with as it is a requirement (doing research and get them published) for them. But please do not make promises you can't keep.

5. Conclude your statement by reviewing your positive attributes.
Summarize into a short final paragraph on why you choose the field, what attributes you have to make you a successful graduate, what you can do for the profession and why you should be given the opportunity. And at last thank the person for his/her considerations.

Good luck and let's put out some really good stuff shall we? DP

promolion said:

Hi Dr. Phan,
I was wondering if you shadowed or volunteer a dental office before you applied to dental school. I want to get some dental experiences at a dental office but I don't know where to start or how to approach the doctors. Any tips or advice will be appreciated. Thank you.

Click to expand...

Hi there,

When I applied to Dental school 18 years ago, we were not required to shadow at dental offices. Phew ... good thing since if I did, I wouldn't be here today! Just kidding... I think shadowing is an excellent way for propective applicants to know what this career is all about. Now on to your question. I propose the following...

1. Contact your local dental offices and ask politely if they allow you to shadow (or "volunteer" to get attention). Some doctors will be happy to accomodate you while others don't want anything to do with you. If you are allowed to participate, you can return their kindness by offering to do some choirs around the office. If the doctor likes you, he/she can make recommendations for you should you choose to shadow other places as well (in which you should).

2. Avoid shadowing places where patients are seen at a high volume. You should be at a place where the doctor spends more than 15 minutes with a patient and not running back and forth between chairs like crazy. I had been in offices where the doctor just came in, quickly performed the procedures lightning fast then gone to the next patient. Dentistry in such setting tends to be sloppy and that's not the way you want to run your practice. You need to observe the proper way of doctor/patient interaction as well as seeing the procedures performed first hand the right way. You can't do that if you only spend a fraction of your time on a patient.

3. Check into dental school(s) nearby. This is an excellent way to get yourself noticed. I really can't imagine anyone being turned down on this request. You can see dentistry doing the right way and you will have ample opportunity to talk to dental students. Plus, when you apply the faculty will have already know you. A huge plus in my view.

4. Check with local hospitals or VA Medical Centers for volunteer opportunity at the Dental clinic. You should talk to Dental Service Chief and ask if you can volunteer at the Dental clinic. If you are given a green light, then apply to be the volunteer at that medical center. That's a way to get a score on your personal statement. While I was at Albuquerque VAMC, there were some volunteers who came to our Dental Service. If you are in Columbia area, look into our VA here.

5. Check into the free health clinics that offer free dental care. They always welcome volunteers and that's a way to see dentistry from another angle.

6. Look into newspaper ads for dental related jobs. You are not going to do assisting since that requires a license but you can help out around the offices if the dentist needs someone to do some office chores. You may even get paid for fullfilling your shadowing requirements! What a better way to earn money. But make sure you are given the opportunity to shadow and not doing cheap labor. Also make sure that you are not doing anything illegal (even as innocent like pushing the X-ray button).

7. Consider general or prosthodontics practices that place emphasis on cosmetic dentistry to shadow. These places offer a wide range of restorative procedures that are complex and comprehensive. You can really see what today's dentistry is all about.

8. Shadow as many offices and in as many different specialties as you can. That way you can see what this field has to offer.

The best way for you to start shadowing is a nice and polite phone call. People love free labor so use the term "volunteer" to your best advantage. In the same hand, make sure they know you will be given opportunity to observe too rather in the back cleaning dishes... Good luck! DP

Gumex said:

Dr. Phan,

Firstly i want to let u know that this thread has been really helpful in knowing a lot about Dentistry in America...Thank you so much for helping out

I am a dentist from India...I finished Dental schooling with a GPA below 2.0 as evaluated by ECE...I believe it is not acceptable to any Dental schools in America....So, what can i do to improve my GPA?...What courses should i take so that i can get accepted in a Dental School?...

I am willing to give in whatever it takes...Please let me know a way by which i can improve my GPA... Thanx!

Click to expand...

Hello there,

When you talk about US Dental school, I assume you want to get a US Dental degree or getting in a residency slot. For the first one, you need to have competitive stats as there are many international applicants wanting the same thing. Regarding residency slots, it all depends on how many people apply that particular year and and the type of residency program. Every year, there are unfulfilled slots and with luck you may get admitted even if you don't have stellar grades. Of course, these programs must accept foreign applicants and not the highly sought after residencies like oral surgery, orthodontics... I have no idea of the India grading system so you may want to post your inquiry in the International Dental Forum for more informative response. DP

pmick said:

I am in a bit of a predicament and was wanting some feedback on what to do. I am a married, father of two who has an MD from a caribbean school. I struggled through medical school (the first two years) and did well my last two years and decided not to do a residency, knowing that the only option available would be Family Practice. The grind of medicine took it out of me and I decided to go into the real world (physician recruiter) and have a regular schedule in order to have more time with my family. Throughout my life, I have always had an extremely difficult time focusing when it came to studies and was recently diagnosed with ADHD. While an undergrad, I thought about going to dental school, but my grades weren't very good, so I went the caribbean MD route. I am 33 and feel that if ever I were to attempt to go to dental school, now is the time. I have to admit that my undergraduate and medical gpas suck (sub 2.5), but I do have a graduate degree (even if it is from a caribbean school). I was too stubborn in years past to get any help and wish I would have gone for it decades earlier. If I had, I may not be in this predicament. The situation is what it is.

My dentist and I have always had a very good relationship and I should have listened to his advice when I was in college when he said you would love being a dentist-why do you want to go to medical school and make yourself miserable. I feel that the profession really lends itself to someone having it all-benign work hours if you choose and making a decent living, while helping your fellow man. I have found that most medical students and residents are extremely bitter and by the time they get out of residency they have been beaten down so much that it spills into the beginning of their professional life. In order to be financially successful, a physician will have to work their tail off and even then, it doesn't always pan out. Not that the dentist does not, but I feel that if you are putting in 50 hour weeks as a dentist, you will get rewarded, while 50 hours a week as a physician is the bare minimum in order to make $135K.

My question is what can I do now to make a case for myself? I would have to do extremely well on the DAT, volunteer/work at a dentist's office, community service, etc. Is there any way to raise a GPA if I have an MD? I live in South Florida and would relish the opportunity to go to Nova or UF, but I would seriously go anywhere if I had the opportunity.

If anyone has any advice it is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Hello,

I am glad that you consider dentistry. No doubt you will see that it is the right decision. With that said, you need to get in dental school first. Looking at your past academic history, having an advanced professional degree is a plus regardless of where you obtained it as long as the medical school is approved by WHO. No doubt the MD degree will make you stand out from other applicants. Unfortunately, the GPA is much lower than desired and the AC will wonder if you can make it through dental school if you are going to perform at the same level as in medical school. Therefore, you must demonstrate academically that you can handle the rigors in dental school. You need to take upper division courses and do well on them. In addition, score well in the DAT is a must. You may have stellar undergraduate grades but how you perform academically recently is what works for you or against you. If you do well on DAT, do well with upper division classes and have over all GPA, science GPA within the current entering class, I say you will have a good chance. Even if your stats are a little bit below average, I still think you have a good chance because of your MD degree. So you see, with some efforts and dedication, you can turn the table to your advantage easily. Also writing a good personal statement is an absolute must as AC will need to know why such a change was made. I recommend you enroll in a university and take at least a year building up your credentials. Remember that at this time, you cannot afford to do any less than a B average so plan your courses accordingly. Let me know if I can be of more help. DP

icecoffee said:

Hey doc.
thanks for taking time
my question is... i'm apply for prosth soon. i have no clue where to apply
my first 3 is umb , ucla, ucsf.
do you have any comments on any of these school?
thanks again

Click to expand...

You need to contact these schools and find out about their programs as I have no clues. I advise you to get the perspectives from the senior residents. DP

pharm139 said:

Dear Dr Dai Chinh Phan,

I am undecied over which career to pursue: medicine or dentistry?
I have thought about this question alot, and it still bothers me to this day. Perhaps the best way for me to answer this question is to find out what others' think and from there I can relate myself to it (and hopefully decide).
So Dr Phan, "why did you chose Dentistry over Medicine"?
what was the underlying reason that guide you towards Dentistry rather than Medicine?

Thank you very much.

Click to expand...

Hello,

Here is a link to my profile and you can see how I choose dentistry in the first place. It was the most naive decision but yet the best one I have ever made!

http://studentdoctor.net/blog/2007/...inh-phan-dds-ms-maxillofacial-prosthodontics/

Regarding you situation, you need to find the answers within YOU. Look at both fields and see what each has to offer. Look at all angles and not just at one attribute. Ask yourself what you want in a career and weight the negatives with all the positives. Many are drawn into dentistry thinking of "easy money" and don't be fooled by this misconception. Dentistry is money potential but guarantees nothing. Money does not grow on trees and you must put in the efforts to generate the income. No doubt dentistry can be a very lucrative career but don't think that you can get rich easily without putting in the sacrifice to make it happen. Regarding medicine, many are attracted to it due to the prestige nature. However, choosing medicine solely on prestige is as wrong as choosing dentistry thinking you can get rich quickly. Reading hundreds of threads on SDN lead me to believe that some pre-meds and pre-dents are unfortunately choosing their careers for all the wrong reasons. So my advice is don't be drawn into the perceived nature of money or prestige alone. There are so much more than these superficial things. Consider the years of study, the time spent at job and at home and the type of work. Ask yourself if you can be happy waking up in the morning eager to go to work or rather wishing doing something else. Do not jump into a career until you know what you are getting into. Shadow in different types of occupation and you may find others that are more appealing than dentistry or medicine. Remember that there is no perfect career and it only exists in your imagination. Take the time and prepare yourself well. Also don't settle for anything less since you can make the impossible become reality if you put your heart and mind into it. DP

RG2012 said:

Dr. Phan,

I've read several of your posts, and I want to thank you for the time you spend answering our questions and providing us with an abundance of valuable information! I have a question.

2) Do dental schools prefer applicants to work for a dentist rather than shadow?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Hello,

To my best knowledge, it does not matter if you worked for a dentist or shadow at all as long as you have observed dentistry first hand. Dental schools don't care which route you took as long as you have been exposed to clinical dentistry to a required length of time. If you work in a dental office just answering the phones, it won't be as impressive as someone who does nothing but observes all the procedures done to the patients by shadowing. DP

RG2012 said:

Dr. Phan,

Is work experience that is unrelated to dentistry beneficial to me at all when applying?

I have a job, but I'm concerned that I should be spending that extra time studying when classes begin.

Thanks again!

Click to expand...

Hello,

Since dentistry requires people dealing on a daily basis, it is important to point out any work that requires people interaction in your personal statement write up. The job could be anything such as bartending or working in the dental office. Having social skill is a must to be successful. I have seen less than stellar clinicians excelled in their bussiness because they know deal with people and the shy and timid ones with the best hands didn't fare too well. So Yes, even your job history has nothing to do with dentistry, it will be a plus as long as you have demonstrated you have good social skill to become a succesful dentist. DP

rose786 said:

Dr. Phan,

I have a question that is mostly just curiousity.

The dentist I work for has an anesthesiologist come in every so often to do sedations. I always thought you needed an MD for this, but he says he only did a DDS before his residency. Can you tell me more about this? What is the degree called and how do you become a dental anesthesiologist?

Click to expand...

Dental anesthesiologist is a dentist who had gone through two or three years residency in DA after graduating from dental school. These professionals usually come to the dental offices to do anesthesia to save the hassle of having patients going the hospital for such task. Yes, they are often called "dental anesthesiologist" because of their training in anesthesiology but they are not dental specialists. At the current time, this is NOT a recognized specialty of dentistry but an adjunct discipline such as foreinsic dentistry, TMD, oral medicine, implants and so forth...DP

DrillerC said:

Hi Dr. Phan,

First of all allow me to thank you for sharing your experiences and answering questions (as well as dispelling myths) regarding dental schools and the application process.

I have read through this insightful thread but I still have a couple of questions that I hope you can help me with.

A little bit about me: I graduated from my university in May 2007 with a B.S. degree in biochemistry. I am applying to dental schools for the 2009 cycle. I have shadowed both a MD and a dentist and decided that a career in dentistry would suit my personality and life's goals more.

I have a competitive GPA as well as good DAT scores. I had a job as a research assistant but I am no longer employed because my boss started a big project that requires multi-year commitments. It was a mutual decision that I leave the position so he can train new people for the job.

From what I read in the forum the science GPA is highly valued by dental schools. As you already know it is not exactly stellar mainly due to some Cs in calculus, physics, and analytical chem, as well as a F in biochemistry I (my major! go me). The F is because that I did not get up on time to take the final (all nighters are bad) and my professor played by the book and failed me. I did retake the course and got an A and also got an A in biochemistry II.

I also changed my major from engineering to biochemistry. I am worried that the adcoms won't look kindly upon my wishy washiness.

So my first question is this: how should I address the blemishs on my transcript should I get invited to interviews and get asked about it? The honest reason is that I was simply immature at the time and did not care about my grades as much as I should, although I am not sure if that's what they want to hear. I am certainly regretting it now but I have also learned my lesson.

The second question is that is it possible to get accepted into a dental school and get started in the spring semester? I have not always wanted to be a dentist but the last year in college and the one working year in between allowed me to "find myself" if you will and I would like to get started as soon as possible. I know it is possible to get started in the spring term for some medical schools. I also have a friend in podiatry that also did that, so I am just wondering if you know the prospect of me pursuing this (is it a good question to ask during interviews?)

Thank you for your time

Click to expand...

Hello,

Congratulations on choosing dentistry as your career. You will find it to be a very worthwhile decision. Now let's get you some insights to your concerns. It is very normal for people to change careers either during college or years later in life. Changing from engineering major to biochemistry is hardly "wishy washiness". Infact it is a smart move as there is no need to have an engineering degree in the health care profession. My aerospace degree does nothing for me but a nice piece of paper hanging in my home office. It is a wise and smart move so there should not be any concern there. "Wishy washiness"? I don't think so and nobody would think that either.

By the time you are invited to the interview, you are already a SERIOUS candidate so there is no need to feel inadequate. Some may look at your F and wonder why you tanked in that class. You then will answer just like you just told me and point out how you have turned around for the better. It is how you perform RECENTLY that makes or breaks for you. As long as you have shown an upward trend, that F doesn't really mean much anymore. You should not bring this up unless asked and when asked, do what I feel is the right approach in this case.

I am quite sure the AC understand how we mature as time goes by. It is unrealistic to expect a college student to be so perfect when they were so young so it is not a realistic expectation. As long as you have learned from your mistakes and improved or turned around for the BETTER, I really think it is a plus rather than a smulge on your record. As long as you are honest and not playing the lying or blaming game, you will come out ahead.

Whether you can start in the spring once admitted can only be answered by the admitting school. In dentistry, one class serves as a building block for the next so you can see the problem of starting a semester behind your classmates. I feel unless there is a darn good reason for starting late, I don't think the school will rework the professors schedule to accomodate to your needs. But then again, you should discuss with the school to explore this possibility.

So as long as you have competitive stats and the bad grades were made early in your education, I really don't see this as a problem at all. Let me know when you get the good news! DP

PreDent2009 said:

Dr. Phan,

I wanted to ask you a couple questions since you seem very knowledgable about the profession and problems facing the field today. First off, what do you think dentists can do currently to help fix the medicaid problem? I have read many articles and it seems that they are trying to increase reimbursements, etc, but dentists seem very timid about taking on these patients. It seems that they have a tendency to miss or cancel appointments last minute, etc. Also, the paperwork that goes along with these patients seems to be cumbersome and receiving payment from the government is timely. Do you think that more dentists should take on medicaid patients or do you think that it would be more beneficial to open up clinics that are just for these type of underserved individuals? Any opinions on this problem would be appreciated.

Also, I wanted to ask you if you have ever came across an ethical predicament while practicing. My dentist has told me that his experiences have been very limited but he has had patients ask to fudge dates so that there insurance would cover the treatment within a certain fiscal year, etc. Have any of your patients really pushed any treatments that you did not think was the proper way to go about the problem (ie. a patient just wanting to extract a tooth that you thought could be saved or jeopordized normal function,etc)? Do you have the right to refuse these types of procedures and offer the patient to seek an additional opinion from a different practicioner? If you could provide me with some examples that you have come across and how you handled the situation that would be great.

Thank you very much for your time and consideration. I look forward to hearing back from you.

Click to expand...

Hello,

Yes, dentists should take more active role in treating Medicaid patients but the sad fact is they are not doing enough. When you treat Medicaid patients, there are only certain procedures you can do, the reimbursement rate is low and there is lag time to get paid. Forget about high end cosmetic cases where the money is. Dentistry is driven by profit at the cost of Medicaid insurers. Unless there is a law where you must take Medicaid patients, increase the reimbursement rate and allow more freedom in what you can provide for these patients, I don't think the problems we have now will be resolved. I think all providers rich or poor should pitch in and solve the predicament we have today by making the time in their schedules to accomodate the ones in need.

I have yet to come across an ethical senario like you described although I am sure it does happens. Whatever you do, no matter how big or small, DO NOT do anything that is a lie because it will come back and get you. I have read countless of cases where greed have ruins people's life and careers. Don't change date of service or procedures performed no matter how minute it is. Fraud is fraud whether it is 10 bucks or 100 grands. Be wise and be smart.

I have patients asking me to do things that are not in their best interest in almost daily basis. A very common situation is " Doc, I want you to pull all my teeth and give me dentures". If I feel they are making the wrong decision, I will do all my best to revert their decision. If to no avail, I will refuse to comply to their wishes based on my ethical grounds and professional assesment. Remember that you provide the treatment dictated by YOU and agreed by the patient, not by the patient alone. In my case, 97% of the time they will do what I think it is best for them. If you take the time and explain to them why such decisions are bad and make them understand the rationales, they WILL listen to you. Bad decisions are made on inaccurate information and naieve perceptions. You can turn that around and not only you avert them from potential disasters, you will end up with another commited client. The 3% that I fail to have them convinced,I will have them seek another provider for second (or third or more) and that's the end of it. Legally you are not bound to give them the treatment they want (not need) based on your professional judgements and ethical boundaries. DP

student34 said:

Hi Dr.Dai Phan
Im a sophmore in high school and ever since I could remember I've been intrigued to become a dentist. I don't really understand and am a little confused on how to get there, or what to do when I graduate high school. Im a good student cum. GPA of 3.8 so far. Well I wanted to get into a Pre-Dental program when I graduate, I'm not sure how to look for it or how much it will cost. I was also confused about college and then dental school...after the Pre-Dental program then I would go to college getting a BS on maybe biology then get recommendations and stuff to enter dental school....Dr.Phan as you may see I'm very interested in this field I just dont know how to get there, I would greatly appreciate it if you could make it a little clearer for me. I know I'm still pretty young but I want to know what's ahead and be prepared. Thank you so much I look foward to hearing from you...I think what you do is great..helping students like us and all

Click to expand...

Hello,

You can find out about the career in dentistry by going to the ADA (American Dental Association) Website and click on various tabs about dentistry. In general a person admitted to dental school must have good college grades and DAT score (Dental Admission Test) among other positive attributes. Most dental students will already have a college degree by the time they start dental school. Dental school is 4 year long and becoming a specialist can take anywhere from two to six additional years after the dental degree. There are some schools that have the BA/DDS program where highly qualified high school graduates can obtain both the college and dental degree in 7 years. You should check with your advisor on this option. Since you are only a sophomore, I suggest you explore various fields before committing to one. DP

PreDent2009 said:

Dr. Phan,

Thanks for the quick reply to my questions a couple weeks ago. I have been doing some reading on health insurance reforms lately and was wondering how you think national health insurance coverage (something like what Obama is trying to implement) will effect the dental profession. It seems that there are over 100 million individuals in the US alone that do not have dental insurance, which is roughly twice as many that do not have medical insurance. What kind of plans do you think our government should implement in order to fix this problem?

How do you feel about a so-called, "Health Savings Account" in which patients basically fund their own health insurance through being taxed out of their own paycheck. A similar program is currently being used in Singapore and seems to be working quite well. It also allows for third-party payers to only be involved in very expensive "needed" procedures in which the individuals account cannot fund. A lot of people just cannot afford dental work and there has to be a way to account for this, since programs such as Medicaid are just simply not as effective as they should be - and a lot of dentists are refusing to take on Medicaid patients.

Even someone like me(upper middle-class) who has pretty good health insurance, there is still a lot of out-of-pocket fees that sometimes can be financially burdening. If you could come up with a plan yourself what do you think would work best, especially for those who are part of the middle-class and underserved. I forgot to mention that with the HSA account, a portion would also go to helping the underserved, just as we do now with putting money aside for Medicaid patients, etc anyway.

I know this is a very difficult question, but any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt

Click to expand...

Hello Matt,

Not having dental insurance is a big problem for many and the ones who are lucky enough to have, the coverage in many cases leave more to be desired. I have heard countless stories about how limited the coverages are from many people I have known (myself included). Having a healthy mouth is vital to one's well being. We are talking about the ability for one to function, one's self esteem and one's general health. There are more evidence now that oral health plays a role the systemic health of a person. Unfortunately, dentistry is not viewed as such but rather an adjunct, elective, "no absolute need" discipline. Until the policy makers realize the absolute need for providing adequate dental insurance for the importance of oral health (which is vital to the general health), I do not think the problem we have today will be solved. Unfortunately, dentistry is shifting from pain relief to more of a cosmetic approach in the past few decades. Just look in the Yellow Pages and all you see is cosmetic dentistry. As such, it is not viewed as neccessary and that accounts for the lack for the push of mandatory coverage. That is why we are not included in the overall managed health care model and that's why dentists are getting richer while physicians in many cases are not getting a piece of the pie. Good for the dentist's salary but at the expense of ones who are struggling to have a mouth free of infection or just to have some teeth to function. That is why I think all dentists either rich or poor should make the time in their schedules to treat patients regardless of their insurance coverage status. DP

LIDO said:

Dr. Dai Phan,
I read over a conversation you had previously about dental oncology. I was curious if you knew anything about programs such as the one offered at Sloan-Kettering. It is a Dental Oncology and Maxillofacial Prosthetics program. It states you can do a one year GPR and then enter this one year program. Roswell Park Cancer Institute also offers a one year Dental Oncology program.

Are these programs any good? My goal one day is to work in a cancer institute and provide general dental care to cancer patients. Is this the correct path I should be looking towards? I do not think that prostho. is in my future.

Also, if this career aspect is possible do you have any idea what the salary range would be for a dentist based out of a cancer institute?

Lastly, is this an available option or is it highly competitive and unlikely?

Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.

Click to expand...

Hello,

Dental Oncology is a discipline in which the dentist learns to manage patients who will be undergoing cancer therapy (or had) and manage them dentally. This could be managing oral complications during chemo or radiation therapy or performs dental examinations or provides dental treatments taking into account of the patient's anticipated medical treatments to name a few. If you plan to work with cancer patients or in a facility where the patient population fits the description, I strongly advise you to do this post graduate training. I do not know the salary for this position nor the competitiveness of gaining admission to the program. You should call MSKCC Dental Service and inquire for more informative information. DP

joesat said:

hello Dr.
i am an indian dental graduate ...........
getting setteled in canada
need advice on how to start my preparations and what all i need to do
thanks a lot

Click to expand...

Hello,

You need to contact Canadian Dental Board for practicing requirements as I am not familiar with overseas dental regulations. DP

Wladziu said:

Dr. Dai Phan,
I've been assigned to create a career plan (silly 101 class), and I need to interview a dentist. It's pretty difficult in my area to find a dentist will to allow shadowing, let alone waste time talking to a student over such a trivial matter. My schedule is too packed to search around several counties, as I'm doing alot of research, EC's, and a full class load.
I have a few very simple questions to ask, which wouldn't require much effort. You've already answered them in previous posts, but ethics dictate that I actually ask. I need a dentist willing to give his address and phone number, because the professor warns that he will spot check. If you know someone willing to do this, I would be very grateful.
For authenticity, I can easily email a scan of the assignment, my transcript, etc.

Click to expand...

Hello,

I will be glad to help. Email me or PM so we can get in touch. DP

nodoubt said:

Hello Dr. Phan:

I am in graduate student and have been a leader in a few organizations and I have often been told that my facial expressions give me away in that I am indimidating and when I speak sometimes I seem to be very confident borderline over confident.

All I see is as when I'm paying attention and listening, I just look very serious.
When I speak, I like to use my hands, make eye contact, and sound sure of myself..even if I wrong.

How do you think an admissions committee would feel about this if they picked it up on someone they were interviewing??

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Hello,

You need to be yourself and don't try to put on a show. If you are wrong, then admit it rather than deny the truth. If you are trying to hide the head, the tail will show so be yourself and be truthful. DP

Ceegee said:

Hi Dr. Phan,

I'm a non-traditional student and I'm in the process of studying for the DAT and hoping to be in school by 2010. I have quite a bit of preparation ahead of me, since my undergraduate GPA is not too stellar. I will be retaking my General Bios and General Chems, and wanted your opinion on whether it would make any difference if I take these classes at one particular CUNY school over another.
Luckily I work at the institution where you did your fellowship, however, since I work full time, it might often pose a challenge to take evening classes at Hunter. I am considering taking classes at another CUNY school where they offer the classes on weekends. Without a doubt, Hunter has one of the best reputations, but in the end do you think it would make a difference, just as long as I can get A's in these classes to help my suffering GPA? Any advice would be appreciated!
Also, would you be able to let me who I can contact here at MSKCC so I perhaps visit and see what is involved in Dental Oncology?

Thanks and I look forward to your response!

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Hello,

You need to achieve as many As and Bs as you can to improve your GPA. At the same time, avoid taking these classes at community colleges as they are not viewed favorably by the AC. Therefore you should consider doing everything at the university level. At this time, dental oncology is way ahead for you since you need to get in the DS first. However, it would not hurt if you shadow or volunteer at MSKCC Dental Service to see what it is about. Look under Dental Service from MSKCC directory. DP

Rxn08 said:

Hi Dr. Phan, I'm current a senior in High School and I'll be graduating next June! It's been a long dream for me to do something in the medical field and I finally decided to be a dentist. I have a few questions for you! I'd greatly appreciate your answer 1. What major is "dentist" under? Is it Biology, Bio-Chem, Micro Bio,etc...? 2. Which campus would you prefer for the major? UC Davis, UCLA, or UCSD ? 3. How many years did it take you total to become a dentist, counting from the day you started in college? Thank you so much for taking your time and help me~!

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Hello,

You do not need to have a college degree to gain admission to dental schools. However, due to the competitive nature of getting in, most successful applicants already have a BS or more advanced degrees. It does not matter what you major in as long you have completed the required science courses needed for admission. You should go to the ADA website and there you can find information on dental education. Without a doubt, you should go to a 4 year university since classes taken at community colleges are not viewed favorably by the admission committee. From the day I started my freshman class to the day I became a dentist is 10 years and as a dental specialist is 16 years (5 years to get my BS in aerospace engineering, 1 year to take pre-dentistry classes, 4 years in dental school, 2 years of residency in general dentistry, 3 years in dental specialty residency and 1 year in sub-specialty fellowship). Others will no doubt take much less time than what I have gone through. DP

Mamona said:

Dr. Phan,

Thank you very much for all the time you have spent in the forum helping us with all our questions.
I read all the posts, and I have some questions about the interview process. I have my first interview for my number one school choice in two weeks. I am very nervous, because I have never been at an interview like this one before.
I am from Colombia; I moved to USA 7 years ago when I was 22 years old. I have an accent when I speak, and well you know, I immediately sound different!!. So this is the first part that terrorizes me about my interview, because when I am nervous I tend to do some grammar mistakes and I think my accent becomes heavier. How bad this will look? I am preparing ahead to answer possible questions, but do you think my accent will affect me negatively?
My second question is about some possible questions which I don't know how to answer. I got an F in freshman composition I, after I withdraw the class twice. The fourth time I took the class I got an A and I got an A in freshman composition II and in all my humanity (writing-classes). I think they probably will ask about that. I am planning to explain how much I learn from my mistakes. Even though, it was a huge obstacle in my first years of college right now is a motivation because that reminds me of difficulties I have be able to overcome. So I don’t know if there is something else I should add to my answer?
My final question is about my DAT. I got an average DAT score (Bio 20 GC 16 OC 17 PAT 17 RC 16 QR 16 AA 17 AS 18). I studied very hard for three months during the summer and the scores were a surprise to me. So in this case I don’t know what to tell them about why I got those scores???

Dr. Phan thank you very much again for you time, I am sorry for this long email. I grateful appreciate any help you can give me.



Sincerely,
Janis Kendrick

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Hello,

Congratulations on your first interview and I hope all the best will turn out for you. When comes to public speaking or interview, some will have it come naturally while others may find it to be a daunting task. I wish I can give you a magic formula to make the nervousness go away but I simply do not have the magic potion to do so. What I can tell you is why you shouldn’t feel nervous. You see, once you are granted the interview you are considered a highly qualified applicant so you should feel proud of your accomplishments. Don’t see the interview process as an interrogation session! Unfortunately many applicants feel this way that caused needless hassles and stress. Just know this: The interview process is also for YOU to determine if you should go to their school too so this is a two way street game. You want to get in but at the same time you are shopping for the best place to study and spend your hard earned money. The school that you interview at may not be best for you. There are other fish in the pond and this is NOT the "do or die" thing. I think every qualified applicant should see the interview process in this light. Take the initiatives, ask questions and put the interviewer on the defensive. Make them think how you will be such a "good catch"! Remember that once you are at this stage, everything is fair game so go out there and prove how lucky they will be by accepting you!

Regard your bad grades in college, the worse thing you can do is to make excuses. A person who takes full responsibility for his/her actions has more chances of being forgiven than the ones who blame their misfortunes on weather, classmates, professors or misalignment of the evening stars. We are not perfect; we made mistakes because we are human. What you learned from your past and what you have done since then is what counts. Since the bad can't be undone, point out how you have learned your lessons and what you have done since then to demonstrate you turned around for the better. I am sure you will have no trouble finding positives attributes to mention them. Accept full responsibility and make no excuses. If you try to cover up or play the blame game, they will see right through it.

About your DAT scores, you need to tell them what you just told me. DAT score is one of the methods to separate applicants from one group to the other but a poor predictor of how a person will do in dental school in my opinion. Tell the AC how hard you studied for it and also point out the difficult courses that you have done well in college. Show them how you have prevailed in them and how they should not worry about your ability to be a successful dental graduate! Minimize the bad and exploit the good.

The moral of the story is don’t fret on the negatives but focus on the positives instead. By the time you are granted an interview, your positives are enough to put you on the other side. It is now up to you to make them shine. Good luck! DP

gegogi said:

Hello Dr. Phan I did not even know this forum exists, so that I have used a lot more pre-dental forum.

I applied this cycle and hopefully get as many acceptance as I could, and here is my question.

As an Asian, I cannot help avoiding my parent's thought which is very fond of 'name value' itself. I am also thinking the name value of my undergrad have influenced to my social connection and etc. However, I know the name value only cannot make anything. Those who want to learn and have a passion to learn can learn anywhere, but how much their collegues motivates people who want to learn is the difference.

Then, do you think the big name dental school is good? I want to say 'don't get me wrong' to who will be reading my question. Especially Harvard and Columbia, as I know, are very research and text-book oriented schools. Dental school students is learning with Medical school students together and some of DS students say it's more than what is needed in dentistry.

I want to become a good dentist who excel not only on clinic, but also academics. However, I don't want to research or teach students. I want to make my own practice as early as I can.

I know it's really on me and nobody can choose my destiny, but I want to hear from an expert like you who have gone through before I go through.

I have a solid gpa +3.5 and was an engineer(my first major was EE) I am not really excellent, but I am a good student.

Thank you.

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Hello,

I am not suprised that Asian parents often want their children to have the best careers ( healthcare field is top of their list) and with "brand name" schools to boot. That way they can have something to boast to their friends while at dinner table. They want the best for their children but unfortunately what they think is best is not the best. Trust me on this and I have made this statement on this thread or elsewhere on SDN from time to time. That is ... " forget about Ivy League schools" if you think they will produce more competent dental graduates than the schools with "no name". Sure the Ivy League status sounds impressive at Thanksgiving table but they play no role in making you a superb clinician or a super brain in academics. It's all what you make of the education presented before you regardless of where you attend. You should know that Ivy League names do play a significant role in law or bussiness but the same cannot be applied to dentistry. So if you choose to go to Harvard or Columbia, please do it for other reasons rather than thinking it will make you into a Dental God. DP

Janet7837 said:

Hello, thank you so much for helping us with questions about dentistry.

I'm currently in 2nd yr studying biochemistry in Canada. I'm considering dentistry as my future career path because I'm interested in science and health care and I love working with my hands and paying attention to little details. I believe dentistry can satisfy my interests and would also provide financial stability.

But, with dental school tuitions being really expensive, I need to make sure I know what I'm getting myself into. I am already in about 20,000$ in debt and by the time I graduate from dental school, much more.

I've been hearing how more people are going into dentistry and the field is getting more competitive. What do you think will happen to dentist's financial stability/status in say about..10 years? Is the current trend "more dentists graduating, less dentists retiring, less people visiting the dentists due to overall hygiene improvement", and will I have problems paying back my debts?

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Hello,

I can assure you that as a dentist you will have the potential to make very good salary so the student loan debt won't be that bad when taken into context. There will be enough patients to keep you busy so there is no need to worry. DP

sony102 said:

Dear Dr. Phan,

I am currently preparing for my dental school interviews and I am having a difficult time finding answers to these types of questions:

What problems face a dental school?
What are the current issues/concerns in dentistry?
How does the current health care system affect dentistry?
What's the effect of the current economic crisis on dentistry?

I did a search on google but I haven't found anything reliable, can you please provide me with some links/names of dental magazines/websites/books or any resource that I can use to educate myself about these topics before my interview on Nov 19 ??

Thank you very much for your time and assistance
Sony

Click to expand...

Hello,

There are too many answers to your questions but to jump start your train of thoughts, let me tempt you on the following:

Answer to Q1: Faculty shortage.
Answer to Q2: Oral health problems associated with Meth users.
Answer to Q3: Too many people without adequate dental insurance coverage.
Answer to Q4: People put off seeing dentists for preventive measures until something serious happens.

DP

drsuya said:

Hello Dr. Phan. thankyou for taking your time to answer all the questions on this forum. I have a question about my situation. I am a 1st semester freshman and I highly doubt that my GPA this semester will be good. I might get between 2.79 and 3.35 which is not what I am used to. I know the mistakes that I have made and plan on correcting them. Do you think that these first semester grade of mine will have a big impact on whether I get into dental school or not? Do Dental schools usually give any mercy on students with First semester cases like mine? I have taken 2 of the prerequisites that I need for denatal school :english 101 and biology, i expect to get a B and C in them respectively. I am very afraid that my life long dream may become less in reach.
Thankyou so much,
Suya.

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Hello aspiring student,

This is not too late as you are only in your freshman year. However, you need to do better because if you continue with Bs and Cs like this, you likely won't make it. You need to get at least a 3.4 GPA with an UPWARD trend. You have plenty of time to get your GPA up so don't give up your dream. I suggest you take fewer courses and try to get a mentor to help you. You also should enroll in classes where the majority of people get As and Bs and avoid if you can of difficult professors. Choose your course of study wisely and take the time to do well. DP

MySky480 said:

Hello Dr Phan, I’m currently in the mist of taking the science prerequisites for dental school. I already have my BS from new york university ( a well known university) and need to know if it’s important where I take the science prerequisites. Does it need to be in a well-known college? I have taken two courses so far a local city college and got As in both courses but transferred to a better-known city college and now I will only get B in the one course I’m taking. What should I do?

Massiel
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/member.php?u=85274

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Hello Massiel,

You need to take the prerequisites at an university since courses taken at community college are not viewed favorably by the AC. A course here and there is OK but you should do them all at an university. DP

tRNA said:

Dear Dr. Phan,

I was recently invited to a "Group" interview (on Jan 8) with other interviewees present. I am overwhelmingly stressed by it, since I have never done group interviews before and I don't know how exactly should I behave? I searched the internet but I only found general information about what's the purpose of a group interview, they don't want you to undermine other interviewees or show off above them, but I didn't find the specifics that I am looking for, for example:

1) when asked a question by an interviewer, should I just look at the person who asked the question or disperse my sight to the other interviewees as well? I have seen interview skill websites that say to look at everyone, but it feels kind of disrespectful to drift my eyes away from the person who asked the question while answering it.


2) in this group interview they will be evaluating my leadership and team work skills. Showing good team work is easy, but how exactly do I show leadership?!?!... I mean every interviewee would want to show off as the leader of the group, so how am I supposed to show them leadership in this situation especially that there is no group activity involved, just a regular question/answer interview?

I would GREATLY appreciate your help and I am sure others will too.

Thank you for your time and assistance

trna

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Hello there,

When answer the questions, make sure you look at the asking person in the eyes but at the same time pan your eyes to others as well since they are also interested in your responses. NFL commentators on TV are good example of talking to each others and the audience. They look at the camera as well as other people in the booth too. You should emulate the same thing.

A way to demonstrate team work is not trying to be in charge or showing your disagreement by shaking your head in the open. If you disagree with a person next to you, and when asked to respond, you should approach it tackfully, politetly and make your point heard WITHOUT being confrontational. The person who behaves like the WWF wrestler will not be viewed as a leader but as an outcast. DP

afrotooth said:

Hi Dr. Phan,

I'm a general dentist, graduated in 2006 and finished AEGD residency in 2007. I've been working in private practice since I finished my residency. I'm planning to apply to residency programs in Oral and Maxillofacial prosthodontics this year.In your opinion, do you think I'll be a strong applicant with my current qualifications. I also would like to know if all the programs pay stipend to the residents during the program. My last question is : are there any fellowship programs in cosmetic dentistry and implantology (together) and how much do they cost roughly..I appreciate your help.
Thanks

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Hello,

Without knowing your GPA, NB scores, class rank, intership activities I have no way to know if you are competive or not. You should post your credentials in the Dental Residency Forum and the OS residents can offer you a more informative answer than I can. Although not 100% certain, I believe all OS programs provide stipent to the residents. Regarding fellowships in cosmetic or implant, you should look at the dental schools Websites and see what programs are in the offering. DP

NoBraces said:

Dear Dr. Phan,

I am a 3rd year dental student trying to get through her clinical requirements. The patient pool in my dental school doesn't seem to be as varied and full as it use to be - my classmates and I blame it on the awful state of the economy. When I started my 3rd year I was very enthusiastic about finally getting to treat patients but now I am slowly losing my enthusiasm. To make a long story short my first batch of patients was not the the most ideal: I had to inactivate 5 out of 8 patients because of failed/missed appointments and/or and inability to contact after the treatment plan. Of the 3 that stayed on for the course of their treatment 2 didn't need a lot of work (i.e. sc/rp and maybe 1-2 small fillings). A semester of my 3rd year has gone by and I am told I am behind in my requirements.

I'm starting to hear rumors that some students opt to pay for part of their patients' treatment particularly for procedures like crowns, bridges and root canals. Do most, if not all, dental students have to pay for some treatments for their some of their patients in order to fulfill requirements and graduate on time? I often times wonder if this is something most dental students do but do not talk about openly.

Thank you,
NoBraces

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Greetings,

You should discuss your concern with the academic affairs and see what the solution can be. If patient availability is a problem, your other classmates will experience it too and I am sure the school will come up with an answer. Regard paying for your patient's dentistry, you need to check with your school to make sure it is legal. If it is, I would do it if it is absolutely needed, ie. graduate on time to start residency next month for example. If you are the only one with patient's problem then I think it is a patient management issue that needs to be addressed. DP

janalex said:

Hi Dr. Phan,

I was wondering what is the lifestyle like for a dentist. I am very familiar with the lifestyle of a physician...However if you specialize such as in your field, are the hours similar to a general practice dentist? Also are the residencies in dental school like medical residencies in which you take call, and work 80+ hours a week?

Thanks for your help!

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Hello,

You should shadow dentists (general as well as specialists) to see what entails in a life of a dentist. Oral surgery residency is very tough that is very similiar to surgical residencies of medicine. DP

oralcav711 said:

Hello Dr. Phan

I graduated in may 2008 with a degree in biology and decided to choose a career in dentistry. I took DAT in sept and applied to dental school in october. I have a good GPA (cum 3.74, Science 3.7) but my DAT scores are not as good as I want to be. My DAT score are AA 19, TS 20, PAT 16, Bio 18, Org 20, GChem 21, RC 19 and QR 17. Also, I do not have any dental experience when I send my application; however at present I am shadowing at a General dentist office (so far 40 hours). I applied to six schools and none of the school invited me for an interview. I have one rejection and the rest either under review or no response.

what do you think about my chances of acceptance this year? should I consider other options in case I do not get accepted? The admission committee is not aware of my dental experience, do you think it is a good idea to write a letter to schools updating my application.

Thanks for help!

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Hello,

I certainly would write a letter about your current dental shadowing activities to update your file. Let's wait until you hear from all of them before you count yourself out. In the mean time, study for the DAT to get better score next time. With determination and persistance, you will get in. DP

drbeevee said:

hello Dr.Phan
I'm a foreign trained dentist, interested in the MS programs for prosthodontics&maxillofacial prosthetics however i am not sure if i should get a DDS degree first.Will a MS degree help me get into academics as i'm very much interested in it.I also want to return to my home country after a few years.Could you please guide me as i'm absolutely confused about my options here.
Thank you in advance.

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Hello,

You first need to apply and complete a residency in prosthodontics first (either in your country or in a US residency program). Then you can apply for a fellowship in maxillofacial prosthetics. I have no idea what the requirements are in your country for teaching. In the US, you do not need the MS although having it will allow you to negotiate better salary or better rank. DP

yardsman said:

Dear Dr. Pham,

I have been out of school for almost a year now after I got a BS in Biology, and am trying to apply for a dental program. I have a modest gpa of 3.3, but my science gpa is only 3.0. My DAT scores are around 19-20. Do you think my scores are competitive enough?

My biggest concern is my letters of recommendation. Frankly, I waffled my way through my undergraduate work and never got to know my instructors. Now that I have been out of school for a year, it seems impossible to find any professor that can write a strong LOR. Do you have any advice about this, or is it possible for schools to accept LOR's from non-academic sources for those that have been out of school?

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Hello,

Your stats are below the average entering class but I would not count yourself out either. I certainly would apply and in the mean time start studying to get better DAT score. Also look into the possibility of doing a Masters program. You do not need to start enrolling but have a plan in case you do not get in. With your current GPA, I do not think it is a huge task to get it up to be competitive.

Regarding your LORs; I personally do not think they play a great deal at all. That is because everyone gets stellar recommendations. What matters more is your personal statement, your accomplishments in life and careers, what you have done to be a productive citizen, what you can do to contribute as a dentist and so forth. So don't fret too much about this. But the fact is you still have to get LORs so this is what I would do. Look at the classes that you did well in and approach the professors for LORs. Explain your situation and ask for their help. Most likely, they will already have a "generic" letter that they can do one for you quickly. It is even easier if you have those "evaluation forms" with check boxes and I am sure they will be glad to do this for you. I don't know what types of LORs you are required to have but if you must have from science professors, then that is what I would do. In the worst case where you can't find anyone to write you, then resort to the proven method of bribery. I bet they will be more than thrill to write you a beyond awesome letter for less than 5 bucks! Use this tough economy time to your advantage! Just kidding though....

I really doubt if you have tough time getting your LORs but worst comes to worse, take some classes, do well, get to know your professors then ask for your letter. Make sure you ask them first because some will not do LORs for some odd reasons.

With your borderline stats, you NEED to write a good PS (I will be happy to critique for you) and do well on the interview process. Good luck! DP

drbeevee said:

Thank you Dr.Phan for your advice.I have some other doubts too it'll be a great help if you could shed some light on it.
I'm a fresh graduate so I don't have much experience in my home country apart from the 1year of internship.My gpa is 3.75 and am yet to take the national boards.I know getting into a residency program in US is quite competitive.Is there anything else i can do here to strengthen my application apart from getting good board scores.Thank you

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Hello,

Strong letters of recommendation, research activities, publications, length in private practice, personality and shear luck are all helpful. DP

dentaltee said:

Hi

I have a question about personal statements. I wanted to know if I should focus on a couple of activities or just emphasize why I want to be a dentist? Should I fuse the two? I wrote something but it seems waaayy too confusing!

Let me know! =)

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Hello,

See post #115 in this thread for personal statement suggestions. DP

yamu010 said:

Hello Dr. Phan, I appreciate your time answering our question.

Here's the deal, I'am junior student and planning to apply to dental schools right after this semester, and study for the DAT during this summer. I have an idea of repeating a science class during the summer time to boost my sgpa (it's kinda low), and send my transcript to the dental schools as an "update" to my application. Do you think it's a good idea, or it's too late to improve as soon as I submit my application at june 1st? .... in this class I earned a C+, but wondered if it'd kill my time to study for DAT in the same time. If this is the case, I'd better take "ceramics" class, which is related to hand skills and easy elective that would give more time to study.

Thank you so much for your help and advising.

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Hello,

Unless retaking that class will boost your GPA significantly, I would not waste my time. You can calculate the outcome by taking into account a grade of B or better and see what kind of a difference it makes. I really doubt if you will see any. Besides, taking only one class to improve the GPA just don't make sense to me with a C+ but you need to make your decision on that one. If you are not happy with your SGPA, perhaps retaking some classes or new ones will make lots of sense. You should take the time and try to do well on the DAT too. Good luck! DP