"natural cure they don't want you to know about

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med99

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This kevin trudeau guy makes me sick 😡 .

He feeds off peoples ignorance to make millions of dollars. The money thing doesn't really bother me though. I mean, hell, if he was simply robbing people I would be less upset.

What bugs me the most is that his crap causes people to forgo treatment that they really do need. He is today's version of JIM JONES. I was watching his infocommercial earlier and wanted to throw something. He claims that the cure for cancer has been around for 30 years but "THEY" don't want us to know about it because of $.

Any thoughts anyone?
 
med99 said:
This kevin trudeau guy makes me sick 😡 .

He feeds off peoples ignorance to make millions of dollars. The money thing doesn't really bother me though. I mean, hell, if he was simply robbing people I would be less upset.

What bugs me the most is that his crap causes people to forgo treatment that they really do need. He is today's version of JIM JONES. I was watching his infocommercial earlier and wanted to throw something. He claims that the cure for cancer has been around for 30 years but "THEY" don't want us to know about it because of $.

Any thoughts anyone?
Click to expand...

Have you ever cracked open his book? My dad works for the company that published it (he didn't play any part in this decision, thankfully) and brought me home a copy just to get my opinion. The "science" he uses to explain his theories is laughable. It's complete crap. What's sad is uneducated people can read this and think it's the truth. 🙁 Apparently, I wasted several years doing cancer research when the answer is already known to us science types....good to know 🙄
 
Read his book at your local bookstore for no cost. He basically rehashes what Chinese medicine has known for more than a century. When you look at epidemiologic figures regarding leading causes of death in Asian countries relative to the US, his argument is at least partly on point. Preventive medicine is not at all a primary focus of US healthcare as most hospitals run on the money made on tertiary surgical procedures, and the government tends not to really give a crap about the general public's health. Just look at how Hurricane Katrina was handled--more a public relations event for the President. Even simple things like having real sugar (as opposed to high fructose corn syrup) in your ketchup is not a reality in the US. That said, it's a great place to suck money from people who don't have it.

Good ahead....flame on!
 
med99 said:
This kevin trudeau guy makes me sick 😡 .

He feeds off peoples ignorance to make millions of dollars. The money thing doesn't really bother me though. I mean, hell, if he was simply robbing people I would be less upset.

What bugs me the most is that his crap causes people to forgo treatment that they really do need. He is today's version of JIM JONES. I was watching his infocommercial earlier and wanted to throw something. He claims that the cure for cancer has been around for 30 years but "THEY" don't want us to know about it because of $.

Any thoughts anyone?
Click to expand...

Can't stand that guy. He reminds me of a sleezy used-car salesman. Don't ask why.
 
I don't think anyone has to ask, because he gives the same impression to all of us.
 
PublicHealth said:
Read his book at your local bookstore for no cost. He basically rehashes what Chinese medicine has known for more than a century. When you look at epidemiologic figures regarding leading causes of death in Asian countries relative to the US, his argument is at least partly on point. Preventive medicine is not at all a primary focus of US healthcare as most hospitals run on the money made on tertiary surgical procedures, and the government tends not to really give a crap about the general public's health. Just look at how Hurricane Katrina was handled--more a public relations event for the President. Even simple things like having real sugar (as opposed to high fructose corn syrup) in your ketchup is not a reality in the US. That said, it's a great place to suck money from people who don't have it.

Good ahead....flame on!
Click to expand...

Preventive medicine is a huge deal in healthcare these days. To say otherwise is ridiculous. The problem is that the population doesn't bother doing things for their health until they become sick, which isn't the fault of the healthcare institutions.

As far as Chinese medicine goes, why don't you pick up a history book and take a look at what the Far East's medical care was like before evil western medicine came around.
 
med99 said:
Any thoughts anyone?
Click to expand...

He also makes me sick.

His claims that there is a cure for cancer (as if all cancers are the same and can be cured the same?), a cure for diabetes, etc.

I do agree, however, that drug companies possibly could be reluctant to develop cures as their profits depend on continued treatments. We assume that they will do what's best for the patient and not their corporate line.

He comes across as the "good guy" that's battling for the average citizen to be freed of costly medicines. All it seems he's after is money.

There was one state attorney general that was trying to sue him if I remember correctly.
 
southerndoc said:
Why do I still see his infomercials on TV then?
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I'm not really sure - I actually saw him on the tele this morning. I don't really understand law and the ramifications of being "banned" but I'm sure there is some way around it.

He's a real d*** but so are many of the people selling stuff on TV.

Just had to add this comment: I saw an infomercial this morning (I have to admit I love watching infomercials ... I know its pathetic) for something called a sauna belt. The short of it is you put on this belt that is supposed to help you loose inches around your waist by 'sweating' it off. I mean come on - do people actually believe this works? I guess so since the company making them can afford such expensive infomercials. Just goes to show that some Americans will do anything, besides good old proven exercisem to loose weight.
 
That Kevin guy is a flamming idiot. I saw him doing a cosmetics infomercial a few years ago. I don't think he has a lick of credentials. He's just making money spouting out divisive rhetoric.
 
lol i thought watching those infomericals were funny, but at the same time they got me all riled up.

what's really funny is that one random night at 3 AM some infomercial came on selling some vitamin or something ... and this random white-haired man was selling it. Playing the part of the "interviewer/news reporter" was kevin trudeau.

i thought he was a professional actor.
 
Sledge2005 said:
Preventive medicine is a huge deal in healthcare these days. To say otherwise is ridiculous. The problem is that the population doesn't bother doing things for their health until they become sick, which isn't the fault of the healthcare institutions.

As far as Chinese medicine goes, why don't you pick up a history book and take a look at what the Far East's medical care was like before evil western medicine came around.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I agree with this. I mean, medicare, the largest insurer in the country, specifically prohibits payment for any preventive care or any tests that would be defined as "screening". It may be that this is changing in the last year or two. And as interns, I'm sure we've all bumped into the case of the patient who could go home with IV antibiotix but medicare won't pay for it, although they're happy to pay 10x as much for nursing home. Or the guy who strokes out because medicare wouldn't pay for his beta blockers, but they're happy to pay 100K/yr for this gorked out vegetable to live in a nursing home and get re-admitted with decubs twice a month. While this isn't exactly the same, I think it exemplifies "the systems" ignorance toward preventing huge costs and problems down the road by taking care of little things across populations.

Payment schedules for primary care physicians don't emphasis prevention at all. a 30 minute health maintenance appt pays less then burning off a wart (way less). Physicians aren't yet incentivized to think about prevention. I think some insurers/HMOs are starting to get on the bandwagon by structuring payment to incentivize good care for chronic diseases, which is sort of preventive in that it theoretically reduces hospitalizations (read: big bills for the insurers), but I've yet to see much (other than childhood vaccines) that would truly qualify as pushing preventive medicine (the kind public health people talk about), and I'm from MN, which has always been a little ahead of the curve in terms of HMOs formulating/shaping health policy.

While it's true the average joe doesn't care much about preventing future illness, I think it's also accurate to say "the system" (payers, gov't policy, etc.) isn't helping at all.
 
cchoukal said:
I'm not sure I agree with this. I mean, medicare, the largest insurer in the country, specifically prohibits payment for any preventive care or any tests that would be defined as "screening". It may be that this is changing in the last year or two. And as interns, I'm sure we've all bumped into the case of the patient who could go home with IV antibiotix but medicare won't pay for it, although they're happy to pay 10x as much for nursing home. Or the guy who strokes out because medicare wouldn't pay for his beta blockers, but they're happy to pay 100K/yr for this gorked out vegetable to live in a nursing home and get re-admitted with decubs twice a month. While this isn't exactly the same, I think it exemplifies "the systems" ignorance toward preventing huge costs and problems down the road by taking care of little things across populations.

Payment schedules for primary care physicians don't emphasis prevention at all. a 30 minute health maintenance appt pays less then burning off a wart (way less). Physicians aren't yet incentivized to think about prevention. I think some insurers/HMOs are starting to get on the bandwagon by structuring payment to incentivize good care for chronic diseases, which is sort of preventive in that it theoretically reduces hospitalizations (read: big bills for the insurers), but I've yet to see much (other than childhood vaccines) that would truly qualify as pushing preventive medicine (the kind public health people talk about), and I'm from MN, which has always been a little ahead of the curve in terms of HMOs formulating/shaping health policy.

While it's true the average joe doesn't care much about preventing future illness, I think it's also accurate to say "the system" (payers, gov't policy, etc.) isn't helping at all.
Click to expand...
Your statements are not accurate for some points.

Medicare does pay for screening, but usually not at the extent of HMO's. Keep in mind that our government works in mysterious ways, and Medicare is a government-funded medical insurance system. HMO's on the other hand, do encourage screening, preventive treatment, etc.

Physicians are encouraged to keep their patients healthy because many HMO's now give incentives. Not only that, but many HMO's now "contract" these patients to the physician. Meaning the physician is paid a monthly fee based on the number of patients contracted to him whether or not he or she sees them. If a patient is sick, that requries more visits, and hence the physician doesn't make any money. Periodic visits are required in order for the physician to obtain this contract fee.

Despite this, many physicians still do not spend enough time with patients to encourage preventive treatment, dietary changes, etc. HMO's are a double-edged sword. At one part, it has (theoretically) reduced healthcare costs, although it seems it has shifted from hospitals making profits to the insurance industry making profits with no real savings seen by the average subscriber. On the other hand, it has significantly crippled our healthcare system by causing ED's to shut down, hospitals to reduce bed capacity, and physicians to shorten their visit times to accompany an influx of patients.
 
I met Kevin Trudeau in the summer of 1997 in Minneapolis, MN when he was the lead pitch man for Nutrition For Life International, a network marketing scheme. This man is a true slim ball who gives slim balls a bad name.
 
med99 said:
This kevin trudeau guy makes me sick 😡 .

He feeds off peoples ignorance to make millions of dollars. The money thing doesn't really bother me though. I mean, hell, if he was simply robbing people I would be less upset.

What bugs me the most is that his crap causes people to forgo treatment that they really do need. He is today's version of JIM JONES. I was watching his infocommercial earlier and wanted to throw something. He claims that the cure for cancer has been around for 30 years but "THEY" don't want us to know about it because of $.

Any thoughts anyone?
Click to expand...

my thoughts-
he's a jackass, but caveat emptor. It's not my problem if people follow his advice.
 
southerndoc said:
Why do I still see his infomercials on TV then?
Click to expand...

Because he's only banned from selling an actual product and claiming that it cures disease on television. There is a loophole that allows him to sell the actual information about the products to you.
 
I have seen this guy, funny stuff. Who thinks there might be a little money if they found "the cure for cancer?" I don't think Merck would keep it a secret, granted they would sell it for 500$ a pill, but not a secret. If you want to see real greatness, watch spanish TV. They have some wild stuff advertised on there, including a pill that does everything from enlarging your manhood to curing DM and cancer. Who is the pitchman for this product? None other than a very attractive lady wearing a ridiculously short skirt and a white lab coat. Her degree that is identified after her name is EMT. Serious. The snakeoil salesman is alive and well in the 21st century.
 
Trudeau is an idiot who is also a liar.

He's not hte only one.

there's a bitch who actually has an MD who basically makes the same outrageous claims that Trudeau does.

She claims to be on the housestaff at UCSF as a orthopedic surgeon. I cant remember her name, but she has blond hair and looks like she's in her mid 40s
 
Preventive medicine? Riiiiiight.

It's not the docotors responsibility to start preventive medicine or make sure that the patients are doing it.

People in the US want their burger king and their health. The majority do not want to do the thing that need be done to prevent future health problems.

Thus, the overweight nation we have.

The reason the idiot on TV has made millions is because he gives false hope to people. Some those treatments may work at some level. Not many people know exactly how.

We as physicians and researchers don't have the time or money to research every little claim to fame. This creates niche market for people to make money based on certain claims.

If you are are a businessman you can say "It is a matter of supply and demand".

PublicHealth said:
Read his book at your local bookstore for no cost. He basically rehashes what Chinese medicine has known for more than a century. When you look at epidemiologic figures regarding leading causes of death in Asian countries relative to the US, his argument is at least partly on point. Preventive medicine is not at all a primary focus of US healthcare as most hospitals run on the money made on tertiary surgical procedures, and the government tends not to really give a crap about the general public's health. Just look at how Hurricane Katrina was handled--more a public relations event for the President. Even simple things like having real sugar (as opposed to high fructose corn syrup) in your ketchup is not a reality in the US. That said, it's a great place to suck money from people who don't have it.

Good ahead....flame on!
Click to expand...
 
southerndoc said:
I disagree. It is a physician's responsibility to teach preventive medicine. However, we are helpless in enforcing it.
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Yes, teach when the patient comes in to see us or through various public education methods. I agree.

I should have said enforce it.

Reality is not many patients do it or have the will power to do it for long. We are all just human. That is why we have so many pharm companies looking for the simple pill cure.
 
erichaj said:
Yes, teach when the patient comes in to see us or through various public education methods. I agree.

I should have said enforce it.

Reality is not many patients do it or have the will power to do it for long. We are all just human. That is why we have so many pharm companies looking for the simple pill cure.
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this crap makes me ill, this is medicine its peoples lives, try to prevent disease b4 it starts, treat it if u get it. ALthough i know this is what it has come down too all this money making crap makes me so sick
 
Most of the medicine physicians practice nowadays is a hoax based solely on research financed by pharmaceutical companies (ie., no conflict of interest?). The truth is that a GOOD DIET (Organic food, vegetables, fruits, etc.), along with excercise and supplementation can definitely have an impact and prevent many of the diseases we see nowadays. This, however, is not the case for the vast majority of people who end up buying a lot of industrialized processed food. The allopathic approach only offers palliatative treatments for chronic conditions such as Arthritis, CVA, HA, HBP, etc. This makes sense cause there would be no business for the Cardiologist if he could completely cure the pt's BP or Heart Dz. The truth is that the recent withdrawal of Vioxx, Celebrex, and Bextra out of the market just lets us know how CORRUPT the FDA (Is it a regulatory agency?) is, having many of its employees go for jobs with the pharm companies after retiring or quitting. Come on people wake up and smell the coffe. Be realistic. We are all selling our souls (including myself) for the money, and not denouncing the huge PROFIT the industry of Health Care has become nowadays. Why Bush and the senators prohibited Medicare from negotiating the prices of drugs he got from American drug companies or buying cheaper drugs from CANADA? (Is it the quality of the med? I don't think so....) Now the pharm companies are pushing a Bill to the senators and the president which would make them IMMUNE from all future litigations because of any adverse drug effect!!!! Do you guys knows what are the implications of this?

You can go ahead and flame me. The truth is that I don't care. My personal view is that allopathic medicine nowadays can many times be the worst sort of medicine you can receive. I have been dissapointed with my 4 years of Medical training. It has all been for an evil purpose. Now once we go into the private practice we sell ourselves for the higher bidder (ie., how much money will he give for my research, what benefits will I get if i Rx certain drug, etc., etc., etc.,
 
Sivastraba said:
The allopathic approach only offers palliatative treatments for chronic conditions such as Arthritis, CVA, HA, HBP, etc. This makes sense cause there would be no business for the Cardiologist if he could completely cure the pt's BP or Heart Dz.
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A few things:

1. I'm not sure where you've been, but I've heard tons of stuff (both from my physician and from the news) that eating high-fat, high-sodium diets increases your risk of hypertension, cardiovascular disease, etc. Therefore, people aren't in the dark on this.

2. Once a person develops cardiovascular disease, including hypertension, then the condition is pretty much there. Very few people can adhere to proven diets that work (i.e., the STEP diet) because they are so strict. This isn't to say that their condition can even be treated by dietary changes. If your blood pressure is 200/160, then it's doubtful that reduced salt, increased vegetable intake will lower your blood pressure to below 140/90.

3. There is no cure for high blood pressure, and if you understand human physiology, you'll realize that it's very difficult to find a cure. We often think our scientists are more advanced than they truly are. A cure hasn't been found yet, and likely won't be found for another 30-40 years.

4. Cardiologists treat many problems that are NOT caused by dietary conditions: congenital heart disease is just one of many examples.

5. Often times genetics will play a role in the development of disease. In fact, it's most of the time. Many people can eat high-fat diets and never develop hypercholesterolemia. The majority of the population though cannot do this. Their genetic makeup doesn't allow it, but they see their friends pigging out on the fried chicken and think they can do so, too. Then there are others, such as myself, who eat ultra low-fat diets, exercise, and drink a glass of wine each day but who still cannot get his HDL above 30. That's genetics; it has nothing to do with my diet. (Although my LDL of 90 would certainly be worse if I ate that fried chicken.)

I agree partially with your statement about dietary and environmental factors affecting health, but I disagree with some of your other statements. (Sorry, no flaming here.)
 
Most of the medicine physicians practice nowadays is a hoax based solely on research financed by pharmaceutical companies (ie., no conflict of interest?).
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While it is hard to argue that a lot of research is funded by these guys the NIH drops a ton of money on research and they have no financial incentive. There is more the medicine than just giving drugs to people. I bet those Oxygen manufacturers and ASA guys are getting rich off of people having MIs?

The truth is that a GOOD DIET (Organic food, vegetables, fruits, etc.), along with excercise and supplementation can definitely have an impact and prevent many of the diseases we see nowadays.
Click to expand...

If you have a GOOD DIET you shouldnt need supplementation. Supplememnts are the biggest hoax going in medicine. Everything you need you can get from eating a GOOD DIET. Many of us dont so we supplement.

The allopathic approach only offers palliatative treatments for chronic conditions such as Arthritis, CVA, HA, HBP, etc. This makes sense cause there would be no business for the Cardiologist if he could completely cure the pt's BP or Heart Dz. The truth is that the recent withdrawal of Vioxx, Celebrex, and Bextra out of the market just lets us know how CORRUPT the FDA (Is it a regulatory agency?) is, having many of its employees go for jobs with the pharm companies after retiring or quitting.
Click to expand...
Yeah the FDA is a shady little place so I cant argue that.. I do wonder how we could "cure" a CVA since the tissue is dead? The cardiologist doesnt get rich prescribing the drug since he isnt the one who owns the pharmacy. Very few things in life are black and white.. Yes we cant cure heart dz but we try to limit the risk factors for a coronary event. I have yet to see someone who can "cure" these conditions.

Come on people wake up and smell the coffe. Be realistic. We are all selling our souls (including myself) for the money, and not denouncing the huge PROFIT the industry of Health Care has become nowadays. Why Bush and the senators prohibited Medicare from negotiating the prices of drugs he got from American drug companies or buying cheaper drugs from CANADA? (Is it the quality of the med? I don't think so....) Now the pharm companies are pushing a Bill to the senators and the president which would make them IMMUNE from all future litigations because of any adverse drug effect!!!! Do you guys knows what are the implications of this?
Click to expand...

This is a very interesting paragraph.. I assume you realize that these "cheaper drugs" from Canada are made by these same people. I also assume you know they need money for research. While I know it is true that 1/3 of expenditures of big pharma is advertising (which I think sux) if you spend $5 billion to come up with drug A you have to do everything you can to at least break even. It is our job as MDs to read the journals and figure out which meds we need to give our patients. You do not have to listen to the drug reps or take their pens etc.

You can go ahead and flame me. The truth is that I don't care. My personal view is that allopathic medicine nowadays can many times be the worst sort of medicine you can receive.
Click to expand...

Wondering where the "better" medicine is? If you have found it I really wish you would share it with us.

I have been dissapointed with my 4 years of Medical training. It has all been for an evil purpose. Now once we go into the private practice we sell ourselves for the higher bidder (ie., how much money will he give for my research, what benefits will I get if i Rx certain drug, etc., etc., etc.,
Click to expand...

There is no way you are in med school. The problems with this is when you are in "private practice" the majority of docs dont do research. Most of the academic places do.. There is a cap on what these guys can give you as a "gift" something like $25 or $50 per yr.. Hardly enough to make me want to prescribe their drug.

While medicine isnt perfect no one has even come close to showing their idea is any better. I dont know where you are at school but someone has been pissing in your cheerios... Welcome to EBM, take a look at a journal a ton of the articles have nothing to do with pharma and many that dont show any benefit of drugs.. Wake up to your coffee and specialty journal today!
 
Sivastraba said:
Most of the medicine physicians practice nowadays is a hoax based solely on research financed by pharmaceutical companies (ie., no conflict of interest?). The truth is that a GOOD DIET (Organic food, vegetables, fruits, etc.), along with excercise and supplementation can definitely have an impact and prevent many of the diseases we see nowadays. This, however, is not the case for the vast majority of people who end up buying a lot of industrialized processed food.
Click to expand...

I guess this is why life expectancy is higher than it has ever been, in spite of modern medicine. 🙄
 
Actually, the Hunza tribe in the Himalyian mountains are known for long life. The average life span is 100-120 years of age. This is down from what it used to be before western civilization moved in. Their main source of food is apricots and apricot seeds. The seeds contain cyanide in a natural form. By the way, the tribesman have the lowest incidences of cancer in the world. Interesting!

Oh by the way, studies have shown that only animals in the captivity get cancer not wild ones.
 
ryann04 said:
Actually, the Hunza tribe in the Himalyian mountains are known for long life. The average life span is 100-120 years of age. This is down from what it used to be before western civilization moved in. Their main source of food is apricots and apricot seeds. The seeds contain cyanide in a natural form. By the way, the tribesman have the lowest incidences of cancer in the world. Interesting!

Oh by the way, studies have shown that only animals in the captivity get cancer not wild ones.
Click to expand...

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
Wondering where the "better" medicine is? If you have found it I really wish you would share it with us.

Ok I am going to post a couple of interesting websites so that you can keep flaming me :laugh: .... By the way in the first one there is a study by a M.D., N.D.

Notice that many of these websites have interesting stuff written by M.D.'s

"The total number of iatrogenic deaths shown in the following table is 783,936. It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States."

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sep...s_leading_cause_of_death_and_injury_in_us.htm


History of Medicine as we know it today and Natural food tx for many of today's ailments...

"The health crisis in America of degenerative diseases, such as heart attacks, high blood pressure, cancers, stroke, and diabetes, with no cure in sight, reflects a society where the principles of good health are suppressed, ignored, or lost"

http://www.plim.org/plimshows2002FoodMiracle.html



"What should government do if it is serious about cutting health spending and improving access to affordable health care? The first step should be to eliminate the anti-competitive barriers that restrict access to low-cost providers, namely licensure laws and federal reimbursement regulations. Americans should not be forced to substitute providers against their will; rather, they should be free to choose among all types of health care providers."

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-246.html


"Between public and private coverage,Americans pay about 13.7% of our GNP for health care, whereas Germany pays 11%, Canada pays 9%, and other European countries pay less. The Danish system costs 6.7% of GDP. For which, of course, they get better results- more doctor visits, lower infant mortality, more pre-natal care. There is no reason to believe that a single-payer system would cost more than the mess we have now. If we could save 4% of our GDP, wouldn’t that be a tremendous boon to the economy? Wouldn’t you rather pay 9% to the government instead of splitting 13.7% between private businesses and the government?"


http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/12/everything-old-is-new-again/

"How does longevity in the United States compare with that of other countries? Ranked by 2001 life expectancy at birth, the United States is 42ndin the world. Our country is behind Andorra, Macau, Japan, Singapore, Australia, Switzerland, Hong Kong, Spain, France, Germany, Greece, and more than thirty other countries. A baby born in the U.S.A. in 2001 had a life expectancy of 77.26 years. A child born in Macau at the same time could expect to live to the ripe old age of 83.47 years. The healthcare systems of many countries do a much better job than ours. It doesn't appear that we are getting our money's worth in healthcare quality—the quality just isn't there."

http://www.mises.org/fullstory.aspx?Id=1749


Well I could keep posting stuff, but I think there is plenty stuff here for thought.... Go Ahead keep flaming me I don't care....
 
Wondering where the "better" medicine is? If you have found it I really wish you would share it with us.

Ok I am going to post a couple of interesting websites so that you can keep flaming me :laugh: .... By the way in the first one there is a study by a M.D., N.D.

Notice that many of these websites have interesting stuff written by M.D.'s

"The total number of iatrogenic deaths shown in the following table is 783,936. It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States."

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sep...s_leading_cause_of_death_and_injury_in_us.htm
Click to expand...
So what you are telling me is these guys published themselves without having to have any of their peers review it.. Let me open my website and put a paper out there and I will say that the # 1 cause of death in the US is going on the internet.. What good is their data if it is not reviewed by anyone but themselves? Take a closer look at their data... medical error is only 98,000 (a huge number but much less than the almost 800,000 they claim and a number not really supported by others to be that high. They state 115K die of bedsores?, 108K from malnutrition, and the biggie the 200K who die from outpt adverse drug reactions.. interesting... likely bs...

From this paper..
. For example, on July 23, 2002, The Chicago Tribune analyzed records from patient databases, court cases, 5,810 hospitals, as well as 75 federal and state agencies and found 103,000 cases of death due to hospital infections, 75% of which were preventable.152 We do not include this figure but report the lower Weinstein figure of 88,000.9 Another figure that we withheld, for lack of proper peer review was The National Committee for Quality Assurance, September 2003 report which found that at least 57,000 people die annually from lack of proper care for commons diseases such as high blood pressure, diabetes, or heart disease
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hmm so they are taking their infection # and 25% of them are futile to care for.. and then we have the people who die from lack of proper care?? So the herbal stuff would help them..

History of Medicine as we know it today and Natural food tx for many of today's ailments...

"The health crisis in America of degenerative diseases, such as heart attacks, high blood pressure, cancers, stroke, and diabetes, with no cure in sight, reflects a society where the principles of good health are suppressed, ignored, or lost"

http://www.plim.org/plimshows2002FoodMiracle.html
Click to expand...

Life expectancy in 1850 for a female 40.5, male 38.3, somehow with all the deaths we cause through our cruel tx of patients in 1990 the life expectancy for a female is 79, for a male it is 72.1. I highly doubt this is due to herbal medicine.

"What should government do if it is serious about cutting health spending and improving access to affordable health care? The first step should be to eliminate the anti-competitive barriers that restrict access to low-cost providers, namely licensure laws and federal reimbursement regulations. Americans should not be forced to substitute providers against their will; rather, they should be free to choose among all types of health care providers."

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-246.html


"Between public and private coverage,Americans pay about 13.7% of our GNP for health care, whereas Germany pays 11%, Canada pays 9%, and other European countries pay less. The Danish system costs 6.7% of GDP. For which, of course, they get better results- more doctor visits, lower infant mortality, more pre-natal care. There is no reason to believe that a single-payer system would cost more than the mess we have now. If we could save 4% of our GDP, wouldn’t that be a tremendous boon to the economy? Wouldn’t you rather pay 9% to the government instead of splitting 13.7% between private businesses and the government?"


http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/12/everything-old-is-new-again/

"How does longevity in the United States compare with that of other countries? Ranked by 2001 life expectancy at birth, the United States is 42ndin the world. Our country is behind Andorra, Macau, Japan, Singapore, Australia, Switzerland, Hong Kong, Spain, France, Germany, Greece, and more than thirty other countries. A baby born in the U.S.A. in 2001 had a life expectancy of 77.26 years. A child born in Macau at the same time could expect to live to the ripe old age of 83.47 years. The healthcare systems of many countries do a much better job than ours. It doesn't appear that we are getting our money's worth in healthcare quality—the quality just isn't there."

http://www.mises.org/fullstory.aspx?Id=1749


Well I could keep posting stuff, but I think there is plenty stuff here for thought.... Go Ahead keep flaming me I don't care....
Click to expand...

One of the main reasons why we suck at life expectancy is because we sit on our couches, eat fatty, processed food, refuse to excercise. Have you heard about our obesity problem thats probably the biggest reason why we suck compared to these other countries. So how can you explain the fact that we almost DOUBLED life expectancy in the past 150 yrs. That probably has something to do with RESEARCH which leads us to EBM. This herbal cure bs hasnt shown crap when it comes to helping people in any study. :meanie:

Let me know when you find some proof until then be thankful we are spending money to help people.. BTW I missed your reply to the fact that tons of NIH money goes to research which has nothing to do pharma.. You didnt have much of a reply to that..
 
ryann04 said:
Actually, the Hunza tribe in the Himalyian mountains are known for long life. The average life span is 100-120 years of age. This is down from what it used to be before western civilization moved in. Their main source of food is apricots and apricot seeds. The seeds contain cyanide in a natural form. By the way, the tribesman have the lowest incidences of cancer in the world. Interesting!

Oh by the way, studies have shown that only animals in the captivity get cancer not wild ones.
Click to expand...

I think we have debumked these myths..

http://biblelife.org/hunza.htm

"As someone who has lived and worked in the Hunza and Baltistan region of northern Pakistan for a decade, it is important to first debunk the myth that the Burushushki, Wakhi and Shina people of the Hunza region are blessed with the lives of Methusula. This was actually a myth which gained momentum when it was written up by Dr. Alexander Leaf, in the January 1973 issue of National Geographic magazine. There is absolutely no scientific validity to his claim. People of the Hunza suffer from malnutrition and nutrition deficiencies just as much as any other remote mountain region in SE Asia. Although the predominantly Ismaeli faith (branch of Shi-ite muslims) are progressive and relatively better off than most of their neighbours in nearby regions, they will all tell any visitor, that their life expectancy is around 50 - 60 years, just like any other region of northern Pakistan."
Click to expand...

The Hunzakuts had developed the practice of equating age with wisdom, experience and achievement. A wise farmer of 50 years of age who had accumulated much more than the average farmer could rightly claim to be 120 years of age instead of his truly 50 calendar years. Taylor said she saw a man playing and jumping at a game of volleyball who said he was 145 years old but looked to be only 50 or maybe 60. See page 63. Taylor ties to lead the reader into believing these men were very old. In fact they were not. It is doubtful that they were even 50 or 60. The dry, dusty air of Hunza and the nutritional deficiencies more likely made the people look much older than they really were. This man was probably between 40 and 50 years of age but claimed to be 145 years old.
Click to expand...

Sometimes myth get propagated a little too far.. :laugh:
 
Shhhh! That's one of those things that the other side doesn't want you to know about! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
BTW I missed your reply to the fact that tons of NIH money goes to research which has nothing to do pharma.. You didnt have much of a reply to that 😛

I am so scared with your arguments... :scared:

I will keep posting stuff so that you can flame me...

Here is an interesting website on a dissident of the VIH -> AIDS paradigm. There is no quesion on his credentianls (UC Berkeley, Published on all top journals such as nature, etc...). What happened as a result of wanting to shift the paradigm and stating that correlation not necessarily implies causation?... He got cut of his NIH funding.... :laugh:
It just makes you wonder that if you try questioning the paradigm, anyone with proof, you will get into trouble with the big guys funding stuff.... :meanie:
 
All you do is post stuff without even attempting to defend your position. its not about flaming but throwing bs out there without even trying to counter any points i make is not a discussion at all. This last site for duesberg is the most credible but I found this...

AIDS is not contagious
Click to expand...
:idea: Yeah thats it... The thing about him that I question is most of his research is in Cancer and he hasnt touched the HIV/AIDS thing in what looks like 10 yrs.. So if medicine is so bad how do the people you are quoting explain increases in life expectancy.. :meanie:
 
What field are you going into Sivastraba? I think you need to do some more looking around. I can somewhat see where you are coming from and occassionally start to feel the same way. However this is usually stiffled when I do some critical thinking and actually take a look around me.

You stated that "all doctors do is push pills to treat chronic illness". I could sit here an write a response but in the end if you sit for a minute and critically assess this statement, you would have to admit that this is simply not true. In addition, what is so bad about treating chronic illness?

People tend to grab onto this concept that "money drives everything" and automatically jump to the 2 dimensional conclusion that the system is corrupt and we are all being fooled by "the man". While the system isn't perfect, it is overly cynical to think that it is even remotely bad as you seem to think.

Med99
 
I looked at some of his/her old posts prior to the whole server meltdown thing. It appears they this person is from a Med School in Puerto Rico and did not match into PM&R. I have nothing bad to say about that whole situation but what sort of "cure" is there for people with Spinal Cord Injury? I know thats not all they do but its def a part of it. Seems like a bunch of weird statements from someone in the medical profession let alone...PM&R.
 
EctopicFetus said:
So what you are telling me is these guys published themselves without having to have any of their peers review it.. Let me open my website and put a paper out there and I will say that the # 1 cause of death in the US is going on the internet.. What good is their data if it is not reviewed by anyone but themselves? Take a closer look at their data... medical error is only 98,000 (a huge number but much less than the almost 800,000 they claim and a number not really supported by others to be that high. They state 115K die of bedsores?, 108K from malnutrition, and the biggie the 200K who die from outpt adverse drug reactions.. interesting... likely bs...

From this paper..

hmm so they are taking their infection # and 25% of them are futile to care for.. and then we have the people who die from lack of proper care?? So the herbal stuff would help them..



Life expectancy in 1850 for a female 40.5, male 38.3, somehow with all the deaths we cause through our cruel tx of patients in 1990 the life expectancy for a female is 79, for a male it is 72.1. I highly doubt this is due to herbal medicine.



One of the main reasons why we suck at life expectancy is because we sit on our couches, eat fatty, processed food, refuse to excercise. Have you heard about our obesity problem thats probably the biggest reason why we suck compared to these other countries. So how can you explain the fact that we almost DOUBLED life expectancy in the past 150 yrs. That probably has something to do with RESEARCH which leads us to EBM. This herbal cure bs hasnt shown crap when it comes to helping people in any study. :meanie:

Let me know when you find some proof until then be thankful we are spending money to help people.. BTW I missed your reply to the fact that tons of NIH money goes to research which has nothing to do pharma.. You didnt have much of a reply to that..
Click to expand...

doubling life expectancy is great...but shouldn't we be looking for ways to double the quality of life...

I think medicine is doing the best that it can do...it's just limited and it's not the doctors' fault. HTN, MI's, CAD, these diseases are chronic conditions, ones that have been progressing throughout the patients' lives. Is it the doctors' responsibility to go home with the patient and reiterate the fact that they should not smoke, should not watch too much TV, should not eat McDonald's... Is that a problem for doctors or for society??? I would say society... We have to look at each issue individually... Food, for instance, is easier to get as processed, fatty, disgusting food because what's open 24 hours a day, seven days a week??? Hint: the answer is not a "salad bar." The answer is McDonald's, Jack in the Box, KFC, In n Out, Wendy's...do I have to name anymore... If the government wants go ahead and stick its nose out and try to do something about medicine, then shouldn't they make this type of food illegal? Obviously they can't so don't reply to me for being crazy with my ideas, but I what I am trying to emphasize here is that each patient, each individual, has more negative influences outside of the doctor's office than inside one and it's not solely the responsibility of the doctor to control their lifestyles...It is a responsibility that everyone in our society should take on... Health should not be institutionalized and placed in a category of "medicine." Health should encompass every aspect in our life. For example, most of the public schools in our country serve **** for lunch for kids in America..**** that is fatty, nasty, and definitely ain't good for our arteries...Is that the doctors' faults? HELL NO.... This stuff starts early everyone... Americans, the average American, lives in a sedentary environment eating fatty foods most of the day.... Then, many years down the line, they expect a doctor to have some magical cure for the chronic **** that they did to their bodies....Again, let me reiterate, it's everyone's problem, teachers, doctors, politicians, etc... In order to change the health of this country, we need to change our society in some manner or form, or environment (I don't know the answer, I am just spitting out ideas), to allow Americans to be healthy. There's a reason that when I went to Europe, the average person there is not obese --> European lifestyle (well the places I went to) has a lot of walking (movement), the portions of their food are not that big, and their stress levels are a lot lower... That's health, right???

Now, I am just rambling, but don't blame us doctors for these chronic health problems...The blame needs to be spread... and the answer needs to come from every institution in America,not just the health care system...
 
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