Sgu 2013 residency placement

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I really wish these threads didn't always turn into flame wars. I always like to throw my story into the mix. I'm on the waitlist at a DO school that I'd absolutely love to go to, but if I don't get in, I'll probably head to SGU. I understand the odds are, if not stacked against me, definitely not as much in my favor as if I went to the DO school, however, I'm just not willing to wait the 1-2+ years I'd need to fix my application to gain acceptance into a US school (if it doesn't happen this year, cross your fingers for me). anyways, I know it's not the accepted, optimal pathway of becoming a doctor, and I wish everyone wouldn't get so angry/worked up about it.
 
gamebl0uses said:
I really wish these threads didn't always turn into flame wars. I always like to throw my story into the mix. I'm on the waitlist at a DO school that I'd absolutely love to go to, but if I don't get in, I'll probably head to SGU. I understand the odds are, if not stacked against me, definitely not as much in my favor as if I went to the DO school, however, I'm just not willing to wait the 1-2+ years I'd need to fix my application to gain acceptance into a US school (if it doesn't happen this year, cross your fingers for me). anyways, I know it's not the accepted, optimal pathway of becoming a doctor, and I wish everyone wouldn't get so angry/worked up about it.
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And what most of us on the other side want to do is convince pre-meds that it is worth a year or two out of your early 20's to get your application together and not end up in the position of being a Carib graduate who just finished their preliminary surgical intern year who has no categorical residency lined up and is basically unemployable. Or worse just get washed out of the process ($150k+ in debt) before taking one of the Steps and hurting the school's precious pass-rate stats to which they cling so strongly. The flaming starts when the two sides of the argument aren't even addressing one another's arguments. There isn't a definitive answer as we know arguments made on SDN aren't going to end the matriculation of low-stat US students to Carib schools. But there are strong feelings on both sides of the argument, like most internet arguments. I wish you the best of luck, but I sure wish you were willing to delay your gratification for a year or two and set yourself up for longer-term success.
 
Fair enough, but i'm almost 26, and I'm ready to risk it. I'm not saying it's an optimal path and I wish I would've tried harder during my years at my undergrad to match my GPA with my MCAT, but you live and you learn. I'll take one of those residencies (hopefully) in flyover country that nobody seems to want. Or I won't get matched and I'll demand that taco bell puts MD on my nametag. Totes worth it. Hopefully the point is moot and I get picked up off the waitlist at the DO school so they can raise their MCAT average. Anyways, just trying to offer my thoughts as someone who's tried to weigh the risks/rewards as logically as possible.
 
gamebl0uses said:
Fair enough, but i'm almost 26, and I'm ready to risk it. I'm not saying it's an optimal path and I wish I would've tried harder during my years at my undergrad to match my GPA with my MCAT, but you live and you learn. I'll take one of those residencies (hopefully) in flyover country that nobody seems to want. Or I won't get matched and I'll demand that taco bell puts MD on my nametag. Totes worth it. Hopefully the point is moot and I get picked up off the waitlist at the DO school so they can raise their MCAT average. Anyways, just trying to offer my thoughts as someone who's tried to weigh the risks/rewards as logically as possible.
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Fair enough. Good luck with the wait list action; it's still early. And if no wait list, study hard for Step 1 and crush it. Wouldn't bother me a bit to see you the next "SGU student who matched in integrated plastics/CT Surg program" success story.
 
agammaglobulin said:
With a combined post count of over 5,000, I think these two could use some time off their computer, interacting in a normal social setting.
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Actually, we don't share a computer. I don't believe I could have achieved such an astronomical post count if I had to share. That, and my obvious lack of social skills (which should be made clear by my average of 6.3 posts per day) prevents me from actually interacting with people outside of an anonymous internet forum.
 
sinombre said:
Actually, we don't share a computer. I don't believe I could have achieved such an astronomical post count if I had to share. That, and my obvious lack of social skills (which should be made clear by my average of 6.3 posts per day) prevents me from actually interacting with people outside of an anonymous internet forum.
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I make 3.1 posts per day apparently, and I'm pretty hamstrung with my relations to real-life people as well.
 
Oh yeah? Well my dad can beat up your dad!!!!!11
 
Why all this tension :?
 
I think i may be oversimplifying it, but i think that people are getting worked up for the wrong reasons. using the information in this thread, why is it hard to believe that there is a 90% match rate, but a lot of people get matched into programs for only a transitional/prelim year, and afterward are left to dry, which completely negates the skewed information or "matchlist" offered by SGU? if someone knew how ( or had the time) one can see just how many of the "matched" seniors are guaranteed for the duration of their program, and maybe compare this " re scaled" match list to other US MD schools.
 
pharmolu said:
I think i may be oversimplifying it, but i think that people are getting worked up for the wrong reasons. using the information in this thread, why is it hard to believe that there is a 90% match rate, but a lot of people get matched into programs for only a transitional/prelim year, and afterward are left to dry, which completely negates the skewed information or "matchlist" offered by SGU? if someone knew how ( or had the time) one can see just how many of the "matched" seniors are guaranteed for the duration of their program, and maybe compare this " re scaled" match list to other US MD schools.
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"using the information on this thread" is where your train flies off the track. Offshore businesses aren't really bound by US consumer protection laws. Theres a reason online poker companies and other businesses that skirt US laws set up in these countries. So there is no reason to believe any information in an offshore school's website. It's not audited and no reason they couldn't skew it or otherwise just make it up. The number that are mired in dead end prelim spots is insignificant compared to the attrition figures, which we can't realistically deduce from the info supplied. You can't " rescale " a set of data that isn't the whole set to start with.
 
agammaglobulin said:
Thank you for proving my point about logic and reason. You say ""Left over" implies spots that US seniors don't apply to in the first place". Unmatched US seniors, means they ENTERED THE MATCH and did not match. It is impossible to NOT match and if you are not in the match. PLEASE don't make me tell you the page, article, etc. UNMATCHED = entered match and DID NOT MATCH. Maybe if i repeat myself 10 times you will understand.
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They entered the match..but did not apply to those programs. It doesn't mean they couldn't have matched at all..it just means they underestimated the competitiveness of the match and did not apply broadly enough...as sinombre has pointed out. There are a decent amount of family medicine residencies and other fields of medicine in the middle of nowhere that don't fill up every year. SGU and other caribs, from what I see on their match lists, score a bunch of those. The schools just don't have a great reputations, for good reason though. It sucks because it hurts all of the good students in those schools, which I am sure there are a few.
 
agammaglobulin said:
https://apps.sgu.edu/ERD/2013/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY1&Count=-1

Can't make up names...

http://www.sgu.edu/news-events/news-archives13-usmle-2008-2013.html

If you actually read this, DATA is retrieved from USMLE WEBSITE. So, actually, no consumer protection laws are needed for this. Equating online poker to medical school is a little ridiculous. Also, you think medical schools have any regulation by consumer protection laws?!?! Consumer protection laws are for lead on kids toys, credit card interest rates, etc. PLEASE do research so you know what you are talking about. Consumer protection would NEVER be involved with education.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_protection#United_States
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No, it's not. Did you even read the link you posted? The only part retrieved from the USMLE website was this:

...the first-time taker pass rate for students at US and Canadian schools was 94 percent in 2011, according to the USMLE website.
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They say nothing about the source of their data, and conveniently don't verify any of the claims they make, other than what was quoted above.
:boom:
 
Pons Asinorum said:
Is that what I, or anyone else, said?
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yea, pretty much. scroll back a few pages


"Or most importantly...went to a Carib school. I love that you can laser focus in on the theoretical negatives in that post, but freak out in this one (well, that one too) whenever anyone points out any possible theoretical problems with the info as it is presented. "

when referencing the fact that someone who failed the step1 didn't match you said "or more importantly"

so the fact that they were from a caribb school weighed more on their not matching than their failing step 1 is what you are saying

(page 1 of this thread)
 
LovelyBRass said:
are you at SGU now? if so, i guess ur more credible than i am but my friend who goes there says people who start in the fall semester finish in may and start rotations in august and people who start in the spring finish in december and start rotations in may. that's at least twice as much time as my school gives (6-7 weeks) and in the case of the spring starters, about as good as unlimited time. what people actually do varies but the time seems to be there.
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yes i am at sgu now.

your friend is right, people who start in the fall (like myself) finish the last term on the island in may.

they are also correct in that we start rotations in august, however that doesn't mean that's when we take our step. like i said, i took mine in july (as did most people i know), so roughly 2 months

i did have a few friends who took theirs in late july or early august, right before rotations started, but like i said these are the minority. i don't have exact figures to quantify this, but judging from all my friends who posted with "step1 done !!!" on facebook, i can say that studying over 2 months is more the exception than the rule

it's still a far cry from the post by pons asinorum saying we have "essentially unlimited" time to study for step1
 
Pons Asinorum said:
If you go to school there, I don't know why you wouldn't discuss how the timing is different for the two cohorts per class year that roll through. And for the "minority" who you say take 3+ months to prep, quick question. How many US MD school MS2's get 3+ months protected to prep for Step 1? What's your estimate?
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it's true, the timing is different for the spring class.

they finish in december (whereas we finish in may)

they generally tend to start rotations around april/may so they get about 4 months before they start rotations (because this includes winter break)

they also get more time to study for step2 ck because they finish core rotations around may (whereas the fall class finishes in august). so most of my friends are going to be somewhat pressured for time to take the step2ck and have their score back in time before eras opens up. i think maybe most will have their score back 1-2 weeks after sept 15.

so actually the spring class does give you more time before you have to take exams, but that doesnt' necessarily mean most people take that time.

i dont know why you quote 'minority' as if i'm making up some numbers for the sake of winning an internet argument. it is what it is, you can either accept it or not. i don't feel like going through all my FB posts of my friends saying "finished!!" or going around asking everyone when they took their step1 and quantifying my arguments for you, showing you how most of my friends took their step1 well before 3 months time just to prove you incorrect. you can either take my word for it or not, whatever you decide to do is of no consequence to me.

as for your question about us md ms2's getting 3+ months protected time for step1, i have no idea to that answer. but let me reflect on your question and maybe it will give some perspective to it. i'll agree with you it's true that most us md students take much less time to study for step1 than sgu students do. so i pose the question, do your scores matter as much as ours do?

it is well known that sgu students (and img's in general) have to score a fair bit higher than any us md to match into the SAME position/residency. knowing that, do you think that we should spend the same amount of time studying for step1?

yea, i didn't think so either.

i'm sure it's very comforting to know that a us md can study a month less because they can probably have a score that's 15 pts lower than an img and match into the same position. =)

gg
 
asuka99 said:
i'm sure it's very comforting to know that a us md can study a month less because they can probably have a score that's 15 pts lower than an img and match into the same position. =)

gg
Click to expand...

...actually, yes.
 
asuka99 said:
as for your question about us md ms2's getting 3+ months protected time for step1, i have no idea to that answer. but let me reflect on your question and maybe it will give some perspective to it. i'll agree with you it's true that most us md students take much less time to study for step1 than sgu students do. so i pose the question, do your scores matter as much as ours do?

it is well known that sgu students (and img's in general) have to score a fair bit higher than any us md to match into the SAME position/residency. knowing that, do you think that we should spend the same amount of time studying for step1?

yea, i didn't think so either.
Click to expand...

Yes, you should. You want to be held up for comparison to AMG students, and you want to compete with them for seats where there will no longer be a "study as long as you want" advantage. Either you want to be the same, or you don't. You're saying that you have to study longer because you're at a disadvantage being IMG. I think you're at a disadvantage as an IMG because there is no regulatory mechanism verifying your education and there are too many variables (such as being able to study for Step 1 for extended periods) for which PD's have to adjust with really incomplete information. PD's know that the students at Carib programs have already failed one of the quality control mechanisms that work to ensure the quality of resident physicians. It is not to the PD's advantage to do extra work to qualify IMG/Carib graduates on the aggregate, so they don't. Hence your disadvantage.
 
circulus vitios said:
I wonder if it would be worth it to apply to SGU as a backup to lower-ranking MD & DO schools. I'm interested in diagnostic rads which is mildly competitive, but ending up in a lower-tier IM, FM, or EM -- I think EM is relatively uncompetitive?
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No it's not until you have failed to match a few times at US schools. Improve your app and try again at US schools. If you then fail, you can CONSIDER applying to the Carribean.

agammaglobulin said:
obviously you have not gone through the match...you have no idea how it works.
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I have. I still think you're a fool.


agammaglobulin said:
I think this is a great strategy. 👍 There were several people at SGU that had waited and reapplied and waited and reapplied for US schools. Now they're finishing residency at age 35ish (instead of 30ish if you went straight out of undergrad).
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I'd rather be finishing at 35 than be 26 in a perlim surgery spot with no hope of getting a real residency.

sinombre said:
No, it's not. Did you even read the link you posted? The only part retrieved from the USMLE website was this:



They say nothing about the source of their data, and conveniently don't verify any of the claims they make, other than what was quoted above.
:boom:
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Agree.
 
What's wrong with finishing residency at age 35? It's not like life is a sprint. I also don't see why someone HAS to go to med school in a hurry if they did not get accepted after their senior year of undergrad. I know some say it's pointless and pick the Caribbean as a last resort prematurely, but applying a second time + changing things can work if medicine is your goal. After all, you can't just quit after one try...everyone is stronger than that!
 
asuka99 said:
it's true, the timing is different for the spring class.

they finish in december (whereas we finish in may)

they generally tend to start rotations around april/may so they get about 4 months before they start rotations (because this includes winter break)

they also get more time to study for step2 ck because they finish core rotations around may (whereas the fall class finishes in august). so most of my friends are going to be somewhat pressured for time to take the step2ck and have their score back in time before eras opens up. i think maybe most will have their score back 1-2 weeks after sept 15.

so actually the spring class does give you more time before you have to take exams, but that doesnt' necessarily mean most people take that time.

i dont know why you quote 'minority' as if i'm making up some numbers for the sake of winning an internet argument. it is what it is, you can either accept it or not. i don't feel like going through all my FB posts of my friends saying "finished!!" or going around asking everyone when they took their step1 and quantifying my arguments for you, showing you how most of my friends took their step1 well before 3 months time just to prove you incorrect. you can either take my word for it or not, whatever you decide to do is of no consequence to me.

as for your question about us md ms2's getting 3+ months protected time for step1, i have no idea to that answer. but let me reflect on your question and maybe it will give some perspective to it. i'll agree with you it's true that most us md students take much less time to study for step1 than sgu students do. so i pose the question, do your scores matter as much as ours do?

it is well known that sgu students (and img's in general) have to score a fair bit higher than any us md to match into the SAME position/residency. knowing that, do you think that we should spend the same amount of time studying for step1?

yea, i didn't think so either.

i'm sure it's very comforting to know that a us md can study a month less because they can probably have a score that's 15 pts lower than an img and match into the same position. =)

gg
Click to expand...

Theoretically, they should be fine with 4-6 weeks after finishing their intensive 2 years fresh in mind. You only need a month to study for Step 1 anyway. 6 Weeks max probably...after that it's seems like total burnout.
 
Hmn...thinking
 
What's the average debt of SGU graduates?
 
Flipped through some of my mom's Indian newspapers today.. saw a good 6 or so pictures with advertisements from Carib schools (MEDICAL SCHOOL WITHOUT BACHELORS DEGREE AND MCAT, OMG!!!!) including SGU. Then I saw that residency list, hmm.
 
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