Your Total Loan Amount

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VP_Pharm2004

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For all the new grads that were desperate to get into new, private pharmacy schools...

What's your total loan amount? Recent California grads are coming out with 200k+

How do you plan to pay that off while making $55 an hour and getting taxed like hell?! Please remember that you can't claim your loan interest on your annual tax return if you make more than 75k!

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How do you plan to pay that off while making $55 an hour and getting taxed like hell?! Please remember that you can't claim your loan interest on your annual tax return if you make more than 75k!

With hope :smuggrin:
 
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PAYE + spouse without loans

If married , I believe you can deduct a good chunk of interest if you're in the <140k range ? Bills are in progress to remove the income limit for student loan interest deduction. (see finaid forum) .

As far as loan #s go , let's just say final total is >350k . Worried about it ? No. Family size of 2 and avg pharmacist income , puts payments at about $650-850/month for 20 years, all of which is interest and a sizable portion tax deductible.

Btw , not from private or new school, just out of state tuition with budget increases for medical expenses
 
PAYE + spouse without loans

If married , I believe you can deduct a good chunk of interest if you're in the <140k range ? Bills are in progress to remove the income limit for student loan interest deduction. (see finaid forum) .

As far as loan #s go , let's just say final total is >350k . Worried about it ? No. Family size of 2 and avg pharmacist income , puts payments at about $650-850/month for 20 years, all of which is interest and a sizable portion tax deductible.

Btw , not from private or new school, just out of state tuition with budget increases for medical expenses

Damn that is a lot of debt. Between my partner and I, we have pharmacy and medical school debt and we still have 100k less debt than that. That just seems like a lot of debt with only a pharmacist salary....How did you figure your repayment...are you using one of IBR calculations?
 
Damn that is a lot of debt. Between my partner and I, we have pharmacy and medical school debt and we still have 100k less debt than that. That just seems like a lot of debt with only a pharmacist salary....How did you figure your repayment...are you using one of IBR calculations?

Yeah it is a lot :/ . Got screwed on getting in state tuition due to out of state employment , and then ran into some #%$ that required budgetary increases.

I used an IBR calculator on finaid.org. . Honestly though, I try to live in the present . Student debt at this point in the game (paye, nontaxable forgiveness around the corner etc) is turning out to be just a piece of paper , I don't expect to ever pay it off. Since it won't stop me from pursuing my goals (having some land and retiring early to do a diff small business) I pretty much just try to forget about it. PAYE has really leveled the playing field for education related debt .. just look at it like a 10% tax or pay cut, pay it and forget it .
 
For all the new grads that were desperate to get into new, private pharmacy schools...

What's your total loan amount? Recent California grads are coming out with 200k+

How do you plan to pay that off while making $55 an hour and getting taxed like hell?! Please remember that you can't claim your loan interest on your annual tax return if you make more than 75k!


I graduated in 2011 with about 185K in loans. Didn't really start repayment until after residency, so last year. Have paid about 50K off in that time. I also paid off my car loan (18K) in that time period.

The key things that helped me were:

1. Started an MTM business during residency and got a very big contract. I Volunteered to take on extra patients at the ends of quarters (October and December) and made an extra 5K and 20K, respectively. My total earnings for the year were greater than most pharmacist salaries, and I only did it full time July - December. From those earnings I only paid myself $2500/month and saved the rest to use for debt reduction (and taxes!).

2. Was able to deduct some expenses like cell phone and internet because of the business. But this was really very minor because we got murdered on taxes anyway.

3. Picked up extra work doing writing, editing and web site management projects. Also worked PRN at an independent from July - November. I saved every penny that I earned at those jobs. I also taught an MSN pharmacology class and saved that money as well.

4. Did not substantially upgrade our lifestyle. We have lived in the same house for 12 years and the mortgage payment is very low (around $500). We did buy a used Honda Odyssey (still very expensive by my standards!) in May 2012, but I paid it off a few months ago.

I would have earned more at some of my side projects, but I took a month off from everything but MTM during November and December because I had a baby. I've been taking it easy since then, and only working part time at Target, PRN at a clinic pharmacy, teaching my spring semester class and doing some writing/editing/web site management. I am taking the summer off from teaching and considering two different full time positions (similar pay). I think we should be able to get to our goal of < 100K in loans by the end of 2013. :thumbup:
 
I will probably have close to 200k in debt when I graduate counting all the interest that builds during the 4 years. This is honestly my cheapest option for pharmacy school for my state and my living situation.
 
worked my first 2.5 years of pharmacy school to pay off my living expenses and currently have $68,000 in debt while going into my final year. With the probable tuition increase I expect to be right around $100,000 when I graduate.

my tuition was $17,000 first year and i expect it to be $25,000 in my final year.
 
I will probably have close to 200k in debt when I graduate counting all the interest that builds during the 4 years. This is honestly my cheapest option for pharmacy school for my state and my living situation.

How can 200K ever be considered the "cheapest option"!? :eek:
 
I am going into P3 and i have $45 000 in loans right now including accumulated interest. I always get an extra $3000 each semester for living expenses (I am not going to be too frugal, I like to live a little). I am going to a cheap in-state school and worse case scenario I will be $90 000 in debt when I graduate. Is this a good number?
 
I am going into P3 and i have $45 000 in loans right now including accumulated interest. I always get an extra $3000 each semester for living expenses (I am not going to be too frugal, I like to live a little). I am going to a cheap in-state school and worse case scenario I will be $90 000 in debt when I graduate. Is this a good number?

Yes, that is a great number that should be manageable regardless of your career choice.
 
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-28/student-loan-bubble-just-discharge-it

"This Klamath Falls native may have just made legal history by winning a 10 year battle to have the bulk of his $85,000 in federal student loans, which he accumulated as a law student at Willamette University in Salem, discharged. The result of this legal decision will likely have epic implications for an entire generation drowning in debt, as it has now "opened the flood gates" for all those in Mike's position to challenge their massive debt encumbrance.

And when it comes to Mike's case, there are millions who not only want to be like Mike: they are just like him. At least when it comes to their

Mike's story is well-known one: spending thousands to get a degree, he was unable to obtain the well-paying job he had studied for (although how much of that was market driven instead of purely due to incompetence is unclear: he failed the bar test three times), and instead was forced to settle for a low wage job paying $40,000 as a probation officer. He then filed for bankruptcy, demanding his slate be wiped clean, including the discharge of his (collateral-free) debt. What ensued was a ten year legal odyssey with lender Pennsylvania Higher Education Assistance Agency, which ultimately reached the Ninth Circuit court twice. In the end he prevailed, with the result being a reduction of debt owed by $53,000 from $85,000 to just $32,000 (unclear how many tens of thousands of dollars the legal bill was: but Mike doesn't have to worry about that - his parents footed it).

Here is Oregon Live with the story, which most current and recent graduates can surely commiserate with:

Mike Hedlund waged a 10-year legal battle to force his lender to discharge most of the $85,000 in federal student loans he built up while earning his 1997 law degree from Willamette University in Salem.



When Hedlund graduated from Willamette, he owed two student loan companies. He struggled to pay either of them, but reached a deal with the smaller lender to repay $18,000 at $50 a month.



Hedlund was unable to make much use of his expensive law degree. He failed the Oregon bar exam twice in his first year out of law school, then locked his keys inside his car on the way to his third scheduled test, and so missed it entirely. He did not try again.



Instead, Hedlund got a $40,000-a-year job as a Klamath County juvenile probation officer, a job he still holds.



"I had planned on making $200 an hour instead of $20 when I agreed" to take out loans totaling about $100,000, Hedlund said.

Just a case of reality not jiving with one's exorbitant expectations? Seems like it:

[T]estimony from an employment expert convinced judges that Hedlund holds a good-paying job for Klamath Falls and wouldn't likely earn a whole lot more as a starting lawyer there, particularly if he worked in the public sector.

Of course, the same argument can be made by every Joe Sixpack rushing to buy a McMansion during the last housing bubble (not to be confused with the current one). But being accountable for one's choices is so 20th century.

With that in mind, Mike fought on:

Last week, in a decision that could affect debtors in eight states, a panel of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in Pasadena, Calif., ruled in Hedlund's favor.



It upheld a bankruptcy judge's ruling that Hedlund proved all three factors necessary to have $53,000 of his debt forgiven: He made a good faith effort to repay the money; he can't earn enough to both repay the money and maintain a basic standard of living; and his inability to earn substantially more is likely to persist.

Who were the "villains" that granted Mike the funds needed to pursue the dream that promptly turned into a nightmare when reality collided with rosy models of what the future "should" be (see Federal Reserve for other instances of this):

He tried to negotiate a repayment plan with the firm he owed $85,000, called Pennsylvania Higher Education Assistance Agency, but that lender would not agree to a plan Hedlund felt he could remotely afford.



That lender exists to make money to help Pennsylvania students afford college, and it currently holds $39 billion worth of student loan debt. A previous director stepped down in 2007 after a state audit revealed he'd issued millions in lucrative, undisclosed bonuses to managers and executives.



When a judge agreed that all but $30,000 should be wiped clean, the Pennsylvania agency appealed, setting off a 10-year legal odyssey that twice reached the Ninth Circuit. Hedlund filed to represent himself before that high court, but Ninth Circuit judges awarded him pro bono representation by an experienced San Francisco firm.



The Portland-based lawyer who represented the lender said Friday he would ask an official with the agency to comment on the decision. None did.

Victory for Mike... and for everyone else who thought that by spending nearly $100,000 on an education pursuing a career would immediately result in financial utopia, and instead ended up with a menial, low-paying job.

"I owe a car instead of a house now," he said. "It's huge for me. What I've wanted all along is something I can afford," not having the slate wiped clean, he said.



He and his wife have three daughters, and his wife works one day a week. He coaches soccer on the side to supplement his income and continues to live frugally, he said. "We don't go on many vacations, other than day trips. My newest car is six or seven years old and our other one is a '96 Explorer."

Well, it is called a "bankruptcy" for a reason.

"I am happy that maybe this will help someone else in their dealings with the student loan people," he added.

The same people without whom he would be unable to go to school in the first place? The lawyer chimes in next:

"He had to make his showing, all this evidence, to get part of his loan discharged," Scott said. "This wasn't a case of, 'Oh, I went to school and I didn't get this dream job I thought I was going to get, so now I'm not going to pay what I owe.' He had made his best effort to pay."

And failed.

Ethical issues aside, perhaps a far bigger question is what happens when the flood gates now truly open:

Natalie Scott, a Eugene lawyer who represented Hedlund, said lawyers for the loan agency suggested that forgiving most of Hedlund's loans would "open the flood gates" to healthy college graduates claiming they couldn't earn enough and demanding their loans be forgiven.



Scott said thinks a smaller set of borrowers will be affected, because Hedlund's actions and circumstances were particularly compelling. He tried repeatedly to work out a payment plan that he could deliver on; he made some payments; he worked full-time at a good-paying job and applied for jobs paying more; and he put up with having $280 a month garnished from his wages for 16 months without objecting.

Well, no. Now that there is case law precedent, every student finding themselves to their neck in debt will try the same defense.

So great news for Mike. However, just like the great bank bailout of 2007, there is never a free lunch, and that trillion in debt on the Federal government's balance sheet will likely end up having to be made whole by someone. That someone will certainly be the Fed and the result will require even more deficit spending by the Treasury to provide the Fed with securities to monetize, even more pent up inflation, and even more unsustainable Federal debt for everyone.

Bottom line: who ends up footing the bill? Why you will dear taxpayer, in the form of even more "government" debt that will have to be, you got it, inflated away.

But in a culture in which nobody is accountable for their monetary decisions - from the too biggest to fail banker to the lowliest student pursuing levered dreams of a high-paying job - living up to the consequences of one's actions is so Old Normal."
 
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$80k - $120k (depends on how much school increases tuition while I'm there as well as a few other variables). Mind you, this "low" number is due to substantial help from outside sources. I'm somewhere around $20k in right now. If I was the typical student at my school, I'd probably be well over $200k upon graduation.
 
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worked my first 2.5 years of pharmacy school to pay off my living expenses and currently have $68,000 in debt while going into my final year. With the probable tuition increase I expect to be right around $100,000 when I graduate.

my tuition was $17,000 first year and i expect it to be $25,000 in my final year.

I am going into P3 and i have $45 000 in loans right now including accumulated interest. I always get an extra $3000 each semester for living expenses (I am not going to be too frugal, I like to live a little). I am going to a cheap in-state school and worse case scenario I will be $90 000 in debt when I graduate. Is this a good number?

I just want to point out that I'm very proud of both of you.

Regardless that I'm kinda sorta negative regarding our professions future--- with those amounts of loans you will be fine!

Congrats!
 
How can 200K ever be considered the "cheapest option"!? :eek:

I live locally near my pharmacy school. I save a ton of money staying at home, my only school expense is tuition and transportation with minimal living expenses. My family is broke (got a PELL grant all through undergrad), but they let me stay at home for free. If I went to a state school my tuition + living expenses would exceed what I'm having to pay now.

I plan on working more to keep the debt down and have about 27k from my BS degree, but I factored in my number based on a overestimation and if I didn't work much to pay off living expenses. In state tuition for me would be about 22k per year + living expenses which would equal to or exceed what I'm paying now.
 
I am going to work the corner to pay off my loans!
 
While I don't feel sorry for the guy that failed the bar twice, I do believe the article makes an important point: the cost of higher education is outrageous. When I started in undergrad, tuition was 800 dollars a semester. Now it's more like 6K at my alma mater, and for what?! Same buildings. Same classes.

Where does the money go???? Why are college coaches and university presidents making a million dollars a year when the schools can only afford to put the scratchy toilet paper that rips in the bathrooms?

There is definitely a problem when institutions can get away with charging that much...not to mention some of the other schools like University of Phoenix and Grand Canyon University recruiting and enrolling alarming numbers of students to get the federal loan dollars knowing that a lot, if not most, of those students will fail. There are ongoing investigations into those schemes. People are being paid to cold call ghetto kids and schmooze them into enrolling in college under the premise that it'll get them high paying jobs....just sign on the dotted line, bro, you're almost there! Coupled with grade inflation, it's a recipe for disaster.

Millenials were lied to. Of course they'll feel cheated.
 
PAYE + spouse without loans

If married , I believe you can deduct a good chunk of interest if you're in the <140k range ? Bills are in progress to remove the income limit for student loan interest deduction. (see finaid forum) .

As far as loan #s go , let's just say final total is >350k . Worried about it ? No. Family size of 2 and avg pharmacist income , puts payments at about $650-850/month for 20 years, all of which is interest and a sizable portion tax deductible.

Btw , not from private or new school, just out of state tuition with budget increases for medical expenses

$850 a month will not pay off your loan, not to mention the interest. $850x12(months in a year)x20(years)=$204,000 which is much less then the 350k ...
 
$850 a month will not pay off your loan, not to mention the interest. $850x12(months in a year)x20(years)=$204,000 which is much less then the 350k ...

He's not planning to pay off the loan. He's using PAYE/IRB or whatever and banking on the government cancelling the loan after 20 years, which is current law
 
He's not planning to pay off the loan. He's using PAYE/IRB or whatever and banking on the government cancelling the loan after 20 years, which is current law

Hmm... Interesting... To me this plan seems a bit too optimistic. I think one should always try to be prepared on worst case scenario, not the best!
 
He is hoping the government will one day forgive his loans but the current law would require him to pay tax on any amount that is forgiven which would be a lot since he is not aggressively paying back his loan
 
This article in the NY Times should be a cautionary tale about borrowing too much student loans:

Today, her debt exceeds her salary by a factor of five &#8212; much higher than the recommended twice-starting-salary ratio. She signed up for income-based repayment, a government program available to federal student loan recipients. (A newer program with slightly more generous terms, called Pay As You Earn, or PAYE, is available to more recent graduates.) Both income-based repayment and PAYE allow graduates to lead relatively normal lives by paying back a modest percentage of their income based on a formula. After a fixed amount of time, from 10 to 25 years, the balance of the debt is discharged.

That's the good news. The bad news is that the interest on the debt keeps growing and taxes must be paid on the amount discharged, as if it is income. Dr. Schafer sends $400 a month to Sallie Mae, a sum that will rise. But what kind of tax bill awaits her? Asked to run the numbers, GL Advisor, a financial services company that specializes in student loans, calculated that Dr. Schafer's debt is likely to exceed $650,000 when her tax bill lands 25 years after the start of the loan, which means she will owe the Internal Revenue Service roughly $200,000. That will happen while she is still deep in her career, perhaps around the time she wants to send some children to college.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/b...-new-veterinarians.html?smid=fb-nytimes&_r=1&

I hope some people are hoping the government may one day forgive their student loans but I wouldn't count on the government forgiving loans to "well paid professionals" like physicians, lawyers, pharmacists, dentists
 
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-31/crushing-student-loans-worthless-college-degrees-and-millennials

"There are two fatal flaws in this fantasy: the $1+ trillion student loan industry and a transforming economy. The higher education industry in the U.S. operates as a central state-enabled and funded cartel, limiting supply while demand (based on the fantasy that a college degree has critical value) soars. This enables the cartel to keep raising prices even as the value of its product (a diploma) sinks to near-zero....At some point, the Millennial generation will have to awaken to the fact that the only way to change its fate is to grasp political power and redirect the policy and mindset of the nation."
 
PAYE + spouse without loans

If married , I believe you can deduct a good chunk of interest if you're in the <140k range ? Bills are in progress to remove the income limit for student loan interest deduction. (see finaid forum) .

As far as loan #s go , let's just say final total is >350k . Worried about it ? No. Family size of 2 and avg pharmacist income , puts payments at about $650-850/month for 20 years, all of which is interest and a sizable portion tax deductible.

Btw , not from private or new school, just out of state tuition with budget increases for medical expenses

Could you send a link regarding removing income limits for student loan interest deductions.
 
Graduating with < 150k which includes pharmd &mba. Wife and I are frugal people, so planning on 5 years tops on repayment. Getting a solid start with the profit we're making on selling our house.
 
$139k

$2,500/mo for 6 years. Wish me luck!
 
$190,928. I just logged in to check (Figured it was approaching 200k). I'm doing a residency, so I'm not planning to pay anything for the next 1-2 years. :(
 
$190,928. I just logged in to check (Figured it was approaching 200k). I'm doing a residency, so I'm not planning to pay anything for the next 1-2 years. :(

12k/yr in interest?
 
Yeah, that sounds about right.

You should at least pay down some of the grad plus loans while you're subsidized are not earning interest while you're in your program. If you're making the average 40K for residency, you might be able to dump some of that money into loans, depending on your lifestyle.
 
You should at least pay down some of the grad plus loans while you're subsidized are not earning interest while you're in your program. If you're making the average 40K for residency, you might be able to dump some of that money into loans, depending on your lifestyle.
You should at least be paying interest if you can. I worked retail during my residency to pay for my highest interest loans.

I had about 130K. We are paying double the minimum but it will still be 10 years before they are paid off. We could pay more but my interest rates are all <3% so we're socking money into retirement and 529 for our child and hoping for better returns than 3%.

TBH, I don't think it about it that often because it makes me ill :laugh: We're paying them down moderately aggressively while saving money. We live a pretty frugal lifestyle with our mortgage and my loans as our major expenses. No car loans, no consumer debt at all. I should have taken out fewer school loans by working more hours, but I don't stress about it too much.
 
Are the rates on these student loans fixed or variable?
 
Are the rates on these student loans fixed or variable?

If you took out government loans, they are fixed. If private, they're variable (but generally at lower interest rates currently).
 
I have debt outside of student loans, so a lot of my pay from residency will be going toward that. Most likely won't be paying anything on my student loans at all during residency. I'll try if I can, but funds are super limited right now. I'm going to try and work extra hours to earn extra money.
 
I am at 25K in government loans BUT I have 2 more years of school. Plan to stay with the parents the next two years, work and start paying some with my savings.
 
With making 30k on my home sell and having 20k in stocks, worth cashing out the stocks to help bring me <100k within the first year?

The 30 k, is this your after tax money? If you don't have any plans for this money, I would use it to pay down your student loan. You can't beat 6.8% and 7.9% guaranteed return.

This is just speculating but I think stocks have some room for growth. U.S. companies are still the best looking girl at the 10 year reunion.
 
I'll have about $100k to pay off when I graduate (not taking into account tuition increases) which includes undergrad. I will pay off interest during school and there is a lax gig in school that pays $3k/semester for basically updating a spreadsheet weekly. Going to throw all of that towards my loans plus whatever else I make from work. By the time I graduate I'll have no other debt (aside from my SL) and I plan to have that paid off in 2 years ($4.5k/mo) as my GF's salary already pays for everything else. Should be completely debt free by late 2019!
 
With making 30k on my home sell and having 20k in stocks, worth cashing out the stocks to help bring me <100k within the first year?

Dave Ramsey like to ask the same question this way:

Would you borrow at 6.8% to have 30k in savings and to buy 20k worth of stocks?
 
The 30 k, is this your after tax money? If you don't have any plans for this money, I would use it to pay down your student loan. You can't beat 6.8% and 7.9% guaranteed return.

This is just speculating but I think stocks have some room for growth. U.S. companies are still the best looking girl at the 10 year reunion.

Profit up to $250K on sales of a primary home (after living in it for at least 2 of the last 5 years) are excluded from tax.

Profit made on selling of stock will be taxed at either capital gains rate or as ordinary income (if bought and sold within 1 yr). There may be also penalties involved (e.g early distribution from 401k). So if you are holding some broad indexes in a 401k or IRA account, it's probably not worth selling them to pay off loans. But if you are holding shares of some real stinkers, especially in an after tax account, with little hope of making your money back, selling them and claim a tax deduction and pay off debt can make sense.
 
60k in private loans
112k in stafford loans
50k in grad PLUS loans

i'm f------.

I'm starting full time retail for 125k and also working per diem at my hospital that I interned at for the past 6 years.
ANY ADVICE?!
 
Marry someone with $$$. You need someone like Obama to bail you out!
 
I heard if you work in Saudi Arabia for a year you can make close to $250k/year? Anyone know anything about this? I'm interested!!!!!! :D
 
Incoming P2, $5k in loans. Plan on adding a max of $10k/year for the remaining three years...which realistically will be $5k in loans/year. Hopefully graduate with $20-35k debt that will be paid off within a year of graduation.

I live at home, no car payments, work full time during the summers and as much as I can during the school year. No my parents do not pay for all my stuff - I've been working since I was 15 and have a semester's tuition saved up. Although I am very thankful that I can live 1/2 mile from school and work and get free housing/food.
 
That is impressive. Where do you live?
 
60k in private loans
112k in stafford loans
50k in grad PLUS loans

i'm f------.

I'm starting full time retail for 125k and also working per diem at my hospital that I interned at for the past 6 years.
ANY ADVICE?!

We have a winner! :(
 
I know i'm not eligible to write any comment here yet but want to say one thing.

US military has great program for pharmacist. They have loan repayment program and I believe that they are paying up to 160k of loan. You can submit your application for residency while serving as military pharmacist too. Hope this helps somebody here :)
 
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