Which doctors work the most? (AMA Stats)

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Docxter

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Just saw the AMA stats for average physician work hours. Interesting. A lot of specialties work harder than I thought and a couple work much less.

Obstetrics and Gynecology 61
Anesthesiology 61
Urology 60.5
Surgery 60
Radiology (diagnostic) 58
Orthopedic Surgery 58
Internal medicine 57
Neurology 55.5
Pediatrics 54
Otolaryngology 53.5
Family Practice 52.5
Psychiatry 48
Ophthalmology 47
Emergency Medicine 46
Dermatology 45.5
Pathology 45.5

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Originally posted by Docxter
Just saw the AMA stats for physician work hours. Interesting. A lot of specialties work harder that I thought and a couple work much less.

Obstetrics and Gynecology 61
Anesthesiology 61
Urology 60.5
Surgery 60
Radiology (diagnostic) 58
Orthopedic Surgery 58
Internal medicine 57
Neurology 55.5
Pediatrics 54
Otolaryngology 53.5
Family Practice 52.5
Psychiatry 48
Ophthalmology 47
Emergency Medicine 46
Dermatology 45.5
Pathology 45.5

Do you have a link to these stats?
 
It is from the Physician Socioeconomic Statistics available from the AMA but it is quite expensive. Check the library for a copy.
 
i must doubt those statistics....anesthesiologists working longer hours than surgeons?! hmmm.....
 
It's not just how many hours you work, it's how hard you work while your there. for example, the average burnout time for an ER doc is around 12 years. This is what an ER attending told me.
 
Originally posted by erichaj
It's not just how many hours you work, it's how hard you work while your there. for example, the average burnout time for an ER doc is around 12 years. This is what an ER attending told me.

The information your friend gave me is outdated and old. See our threads in the EM forums. Current research shows that the "burnout" for EM is the same as for any other specialty.

Q, DO
 
originally quoted by erichaj
It's not just how many hours you work, it's how hard you work while your there. for example, the average burnout time for an ER doc is around 12 years. This is what an ER attending told me.

then i guess my mom is pretty above average. She is an ER doc and she had been working hard at it for the last 20 yrs - and she has worked really hard
 
Hey, Quinn, you might already be burned-out & not know it...
for gawdssakes you were a fox in previous posts- now look at you! :laugh: :laugh:
 
if i remember well those numbers from the original poster were based on clinical hours - so they are a bit out of context... for example, anesthesia may work 61 hours/week clinically but we don't pre-round, post-round, take phone calls in the middle of the night and we don't dictate, do paper work, etc... so believe me, surgeons work way more hours if you add all of their other responsibilities...
 
What I initially posted is not resident working hours and the link posted above by Finally M3 is not the stats I'm talking about.

What I posted was the number hours of work for an average practicing physician in each field. It takes into account everything you do at work. And yes, I can see how some people's belief systems are being challenged by reality, just by looking at the responses. I guess you have to change some of your views of how much different specialties work.
 
Radiology is up there in hours. Not a surpirse to me but probably is to many. People have an image of radiology as it was in the old days, with the day ending at 3pm, no call etc. Private practice radiology is actually in many cases a time intensive and tiring specialty. So people that go into rads for the hours are a little mistaken.
 
Cuts,

Yes, it's true that you can more easily find places that will offer you 50%, 25% or 75% FTE jobs in radiology, but some of this is related to the current radiologist shortage and these groups will take all the help they can get. However, in normal situations they will be less keen on taking non-full-time people. Also if you plan on working part-time, I doubt that any group will ever make you a partner. As a partner, you will have to work as hard as everyone else.

I personally know of a part-time family doc, part-time plastic surgeon, two part-time ENTs, and a part-time internist. Part-time is possible in most fields if you find a practice that will do it. All that said, probably derm, rads, gas, rehab, psych, ophtho, ENT, path, ER, and some medicine subspecialty groups will be more willing than others to hire part-time people. Shift-work specialties are more amenable to part-timers; these people can just do less shifts.
 
Cuts,

There are a decent number of part time and outpatient imaging jobs out there, but these are not the majority and you may have to compromise on location, doing your subspecialty (if you have one) only part of the time, or salary in order to get them. Definitely possible though. And you could do great just doing locum tenens as well.

However, with the ever increasing volume of imaging and scanners that do a whole body scan in seconds, most radiology groups are experiencing more work than they can handle. Thus the great pay and offers being extended. Most of the higher pay positions involve longer hours. The problem is that the radiologists usually have a contract with a hospital and MUST cover their imaging needs, no matter how much it increases.

Don't get me wrong Cuts, its still an awesome specialty and you can definitely find a job that is a balance of interesting cases / hours / money that is best for you.
 
I concur with WBC and Docxter

The 60 hour work week is actually pretty accurate for most group radiology practices that cover hospitals/imaging centers factoring call and weekends. There are groups that work more than that too but they also usually make more as well.

You certainly can work less but there are tradeoffs. The biggest one is that you won't be a partner anywhere. That my not mean much to you now, but you may not feel that way when the job market tanks- which it will eventually. Imaging center jobs and telerad jobs are very unstable long term unless you own the company. If you own it and are also the rad I assure you that you will be working more than 60 hours/week.
 
Originally posted by Docxter
What I initially posted is not resident working hours and the link posted above by Finally M3 is not the stats I'm talking about.

What I posted was the number hours of work for an average practicing physician in each field. It takes into account everything you do at work. And yes, I can see how some people's belief systems are being challenged by reality, just by looking at the responses. I guess you have to change some of your views of how much different specialties work.

I still find some of these stats a little tough to believe b/c they go against a lot of things i've witnessed in the hospital. For example, I don't know any urologists who work longer hours then the general surgeons and orthopaedists. Maybe that's just the hospitals in the area of my medical school, but from what I've heard, but most other hospitals are similar.
 
This is an interesting discussion. It looks like there is the grass is greener on the other side mentality; however, there's not much knowledge about how hard the other side works.

I can't complain about ophthalmology. It's nice. My field has become almost strictly outpatient procedures. For instance, cataract surgery before my time was a huge ordeal and required having patients be inpatients with sand bags on their eyes. Now, cataract surgery is a small incision, no stitch case, and the patient is home the same day. :D

However, ophthalmology can also have busy call with open globes, orbital fractures, retinal detachments, endophthalmitis, corneal ucleration/perforation, traumas, etc...
 
If these stats were physician self-reported, they are iffy at BEST. Same with physician salary surveys.
 
If these stats were physician self-reported, they are iffy at BEST. Same with physician salary surveys.

Dude this thread is ancient with all the OGs in it from before I even got into med school. Big ups to all the SDN OG homies and all their advice.
 
Whoa...why the 3 1/2 year bump?

Maybe because big frank is in his first year of rads now and is working longer hours then most people might think a DR does.
 
Yeahhhhhhhhboyyeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
any stats for subspecialties (cards, etc.)?
 
2004 takes it back, but OG?, you have to go back to when Tupac was still alive and when "Let me ride" was new to be OG. I'm not sure SDN was in existence back then.....

Getting back to the thread, I would say most of those numbers are reasonably accurate, assuming that they match up with current salary surveys, such as anesthesia making around $350k and general surgery $270k. Of course, there is quite a bit of regional variation. I also agree that doctor reported numbers can be a bit sketchy. I have had a lot of jobs since finishing residency and heard about many more. Most docs inflate their income about 20% and under-report their hours by at least 10%. None of us really want to admit how hard we work for the money we make.

Anesthesiologists put in some hours to make $350k. Around 60 is spot on. You can get lower paying jobs that pay less, like the VA and Kaiser that allow you to work less hours.

Today, to make over $350k a year, you really have to be putting in over 60 hours a week for most people. Yeah, some people have their hook-ups going on, be it with the prison system, medicaid, workers comp, or some other unique deal, but to make serious paper, you have to put in serious hours.

Keep in mind that hours in residency does not equal hours after residency. Neurosurgeons get killed in residency, but can work decent hours and make good money after training. They are somewhat unique, because their cases bill more RVUs. Ortho can do that too with spine surgery.

General surgeons can build a nice hernia and GI practice with little after hours work in the right community. You cannot always get a sweet gig right out of residency, but once you know the lay of the land, you can figure it out. Just make sure to negotiate your malpractice tail and don't buy some huge castle right out of residency. That will seriously limit your options. Jobs like Kaiser are good, because they can pay your tail if you decide to change jobs. Once you carve out a niche for yourself, be it a hand practice or a hernia practice, you can improve your hours, while maintaining a decent income.

Primary care docs have it better during residency, but to make decent money in practice, they have to hustle, because office visits don't pay squat. You have to see the whole town every week to make a decent living. So, they end up working similar, or more hours in private practice than they did in residency.
 
It's not just how many hours you work, it's how hard you work while your there. for example, the average burnout time for an ER doc is around 12 years. This is what an ER attending told me.


How can someone ever burnout if you can kick it back and only work 4 days a month (one day per week)? And still make a very good living...


It seems to me that EM should have the LEAST burnout. Someone already mentioned that the ERs used to be full of IM and FP docs who 'burnt out' of their speciliaty, went to the ER, and its no surprise they burned out again.....with the upcoming-ness of BE/BC EM physicians, this 'burnout' thing has became on par with normalicy.....
 
Its been another 4 years. How are the hours now that everyone is out of residency?
 
Didn't realize till I had finished reading the entire thread that this was a 4 year bump but either way I felt like posting. I find it hard to believe that Critical Care is not on the list. Also, I would love to see a breakdown for surgical specialties. I would be willing to bet the weekly hour load varies significantly between Plastics, ortho, trauma and vascular.
 
I find it hard to believe that Critical Care is not on the list.

It would be hard to interpret stats for critical care, since most intensivists also spend time in another setting (pulmonology anesthesia, surgery). However, as a soon-to-be CCM fellow, I would love to see any info people have.
 
Family Practice 52.5
Psychiatry 48
Ophthalmology 47
Emergency Medicine 46
Dermatology 45.5
Pathology 45.5

I think your post is going to revolutionize medicine by making Pathology and Psychiatry really popular. Soon after finishing medical school you realize it really is all about maximizing your time off and minimizing patient contact.
 
Actually I heard of both picking up steam. I don't know if it was PDs blowing smoke, but myself through path interviews, and a friend through psych interviews both heard of an upswing of interest. I think both fall prey to a stigma of stereotyping the work you do, but with both I think it really depends how tailor your practice. I think the layman stereotypes psych to the severe inpt populations, and path w/ autopsies whereas in reality they both can be quite different in practice.
I think your post is going to revolutionize medicine by making Pathology and Psychiatry really popular. Soon after finishing medical school you realize it really is all about maximizing your time off and minimizing patient contact.
 
Its been another 4 years. How are the hours now that everyone is out of residency?

Not everyone is out of residency just because it's been four years. :)

I find it hard to believe that Critical Care is not on the list.

Really? Most of the intensivists here take call one week out of each month, so their average hours per week aren't that bad.
 
Didn't realize till I had finished reading the entire thread that this was a 4 year bump but either way I felt like posting. I find it hard to believe that Critical Care is not on the list. Also, I would love to see a breakdown for surgical specialties. I would be willing to bet the weekly hour load varies significantly between Plastics, ortho, trauma and vascular.

There will be a lot of variation based on the practice set-ups I'm hearing about.

Everything from 8 hour shifts to 24/7 for a full week (with time off after of course)
 
Statistics like this are practically meaningless. There is too much variation in practice patterns. In addition, how do you factor in call responsibilities? Does administrative time count? "average" hours work is not helpful. The more effective way to gauge how hard a certain specialty works is to find a practice which approximates what you want and see what they do.

I work in path - for some people an average week is well over 60 hours, for others it can be under 40. Which one is "representative" of the field? Both and neither.
 
There will be a lot of variation based on the practice set-ups I'm hearing about.

Everything from 8 hour shifts to 24/7 for a full week (with time off after of course)

A'lot of what I have seen is a 24/7 hell week, then a week off, then a week of academics/administrative crap, then back to the hell week. I'm hoping to get a hospitalist style schedule, 7 on 7 off, 12 hour coverage strictly in the ICU.
 
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