Concerns regarding quality of HPSP/USUHS

up the $$$, and they will come.

also, USUHS is a 7 year obligation if i remember correctly. what is the incentive to go there when you can get HPSP and get the same result (free school) but with 3 fewer obligated years?

Homunculus said:

up the $$$, and they will come.

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Hold on! Don't be that optimistic!

Let's start simple: tax-free stipend

Yes, up the money now and do it quick (like before I start).

Cerberus said:

Yes, up the money now and do it quick (like before I start).

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USUHS? 2LT pay+allowances throughout school is pretty darn good.

idq1i said:

USUHS? 2LT pay+allowances throughout school is pretty darn good.

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I agree, its damned good. There is the chance I wont get in there though and will do HPSP in which case extra cash would be real nice.

Homunculus said:

up the $$$, and they will come.

also, USUHS is a 7 year obligation if i remember correctly. what is the incentive to go there when you can get HPSP and get the same result (free school) but with 3 fewer obligated years?

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It's not the money. It is how they treat physicians. To the military, you are just another officer....and a lowly one at that. To the civilian world, you are a PHYSICIAN, and treated as such...repect, pay, etc.

Your years of dedication in Medical School, and training in residency means nothing to them. A nurse of equal rank is just as important to the military as you are....that's why military medicine is circling the drain.

Everyone who is in military medicine right now knows it, but the recruiters will never tell you that, and those who are committed to staying will never tell you that.

I think the numbers in the article clearly shows you that.

up the $$$, and they will come.

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I concur.....more $$$$, please.

Boot those crazy osteopaths. We are dragging the entire future of military medicine down the dumper! Those darn MCATs are still being used as a predictor for clinical success? It would be nice to see a solid study correlating this.

Any mention of average board scores dropping in that article? Nope. Wonder how those look.

Those darn admissions committees...if they would have accepted me based on looks instead of MCAT, I'd be at a top tier school. Oh, wait .....NSU is top tier.

God some of you guys are negative. Not that you arent being honest but jesus christ...

It is difficult if not impossible to attract the graduates from the top medical school when the military life (willingness to die for one's country) naturally repels them.However it really doesn't matter. Those high academic achievers do NOT mean that they possess the abilities to become the outstanding officers. The SAT score of an infantry officer plays no role when he is leading his unit into the battlefield. Instead of worrying about recuiting a kid from Harvard who knows nothing about military they should spend more time in improving the military medicine to keep those military physicians who know something about the military medicine, Seriously.

Prior Enlisted
HPSP MSII

The services send people out to civilian programs for full time out service training so the "gene pool" doesn't get stagnant and to meet the demands of certain specialties. We have guys going to decent civilian programs, bringing a different training style, then getting out at the end of their commitment. If every officer stayed in the military, we would be top heavy and no room for promotion.

One thing to remember, though you may think you get treated like crap as an O-3, you still outrank about 90% of the people in the military. You have to earn their respect.

r90t said:

One thing to remember, though you may think you get treated like crap as an O-3, you still outrank about 90% of the people in the military. You have to earn their respect.

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You are comparing apples and oranges. A physician expects to be treated as a physician, period.

When I finished my residency, I was sent to a isolated duty station where I was the sole specialist. My housing was substandard at best....based on my rank and the fact that I was sent as a geographical bachelor. A variety of 0-6s...nurses, administrators, etc...lived lavishly in very nice base housing.

Any civilian physician specialist who finishes training and moves to an isolated area to provide needed services....can expect to live like a king....not like the new janitor who just came into town.

Anyone who is coming into the military without prior experience needs to know that this inequity is what is causing a lot of physicians to leave. The cited article speaks for itself.

As those of us with prior experience know, being in the military for the "higher calling" aspect makes everything tolerable. I don't know if a physician who joins the military to be treated like a physician has the right slant on military medicine. There is a rank structure. But a good starting place to improve military physician life would be to throw more $$$ around. At least it would be a start....

Heeed! said:

As those of us with prior experience know, being in the military for the "higher calling" aspect makes everything tolerable. I don't know if a physician who joins the military to be treated like a physician has the right slant on military medicine. There is a rank structure. But a good starting place to improve military physician life would be to throw more $$$ around. At least it would be a start....

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Thats easy to say, but after busting your a$$ through 4 years of medical school and then 3+ more years of residency, you may not feel the same way. Especially when the civilian world would not just pay you better, but also appreciate you much more. Although, one nice thing about military medicine is that you will be much more likely to get respect and nice manners from your patients then the civilian ghetto city that I work in now!

militarymd said:

It's not the money. It is how they treat physicians. To the military, you are just another officer....and a lowly one at that. To the civilian world, you are a PHYSICIAN, and treated as such...repect, pay, etc.

Your years of dedication in Medical School, and training in residency means nothing to them. A nurse of equal rank is just as important to the military as you are....that's why military medicine is circling the drain.

Everyone who is in military medicine right now knows it, but the recruiters will never tell you that, and those who are committed to staying will never tell you that.

I think the numbers in the article clearly shows you that.

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Oh, I don't know about that. When I was in the military, we didn't treat the doctors like real officers. They were doctors. And, for the most part, they were mid-grade (Captains and Majors).

Rudy said:

Yes, it is more than about the money. The money hasn't changed (which is part of the problem actually--there is no allowance for inflation in medical special pays), but the caliber and number of applicants is decreasing significantly.

Military medicine is on its last legs, but no one wants to be responsible to pull the plug. When all of you medical students get out on active duty, you will see what we are talking about. In your civilian med schools (or at USUHS, which is very far removed from real military medicine), it is impossible to get a real understanding of what military medicine is like. By the way, you will never, ever see a recruiter (no matter what rank) anyway near the wards or clinics of a military hospital, so unfortunately they arent' good sources of information regarding the real issues facing military medicine today. I hope that all of you take the time to go and talk with active duty docs at military facilities prior to making a decision. You need to be as informed as possible prior to making such a career and life-changing decision that really can't be reversed without a diagnosis of mental illness.

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LOL, thats so typical. X, Y or Z isn't "the real military/whatever".

In my experience in the AF (24 years, so it's more than most here) I was always looking for "The Real AF (TRAF)". Basic Training (I started as an enlisted guy) wasn't TRAF. Tech school wasn't TRAF. First assignment (at another ATC base) wasn't TRAF. Assigned to US Air Forces Germany wasn't TRAF. Off to OTC which wasn't TRAF (back in ATC), then off to UPT (which REALLY wasn't TRAF), then to fighter weps, unconventional weps, wild weasel school, none of which was TRAF. Survival school wasn't TRAF but certainly was cool.

Then, back to USAFE to continue looking for TRAF. Injured in a mid-air, in hospital and convalescence for a year, then Vandenberg AFB (SAC, which I thought was TRAF but I found out it wasn't even SAC).

Then, into the Air Guard - which isn't TRAF either. Activated for Desert Storm and into AMC, then CENTCOM, then Schwartzkopfs Air Force, and none of it was The Real Air Force (or so it seemed).

Guess what? The REAL MILITARY is where ever the military is sitting, as long as you're sitting on a DD Form 2-whatever ID card. The militay is what you (the servicemember) make it. I've had some good assignments and some truely hideous assignments (most have been the same assignments) and it's all what you make it.

If you want to serve in the military, please do it. If you want to serve in the military just to get a loan repayment, thats fine too, but please just remember that your assignment is whatever you make it, and any place you might be in civilian life has it's good and bad parts - I'm sure that physicians at the Mayo Medical Clinic or MGH or any other top-end facility have their bad days, just like someone at the worst crappy county hospital.

If I might offer one last piece of advice, you might as well work towards making wherever you are at least acceptable, because after all, thats where you are. I do believe that it's (mostly) up to you.

You are SO old!

Heeed! said:

You are SO old!

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Damn straight! Lived a life and a half, and still around boring you young folk about it LOL.

I wonder if there is anyone else around here planning on finishing their residency at 57?

flighterdoc said:

I wonder if there is anyone else around here planning on finishing their residency at 57?

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Hah! If I were in your shoes i'd be sitting on a beach somewhere enjoying a margarity and a nice retirement check from Uncle Sam

ok, probably not..I have a hard time going a full week without something (school, work, athletics) to occupy my time.

Cerberus said:

Hah! If I were in your shoes i'd be sitting on a beach somewhere enjoying a margarity and a nice retirement check from Uncle Sam

ok, probably not..I have a hard time going a full week without something (school, work, athletics) to occupy my time.

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Yeah, thats what I discovered. Besides, I've always asked myself "what-if" if I hadn't wimped out in Orgo in college. We'll see.

There is an advantage - when I walk in as a student, the Pt probably will think I'm the attending!

To compound the problem of decreasing numbers and quality of applicants is the reality that the military is losing its best staff physicians to the civilian sector. This leaves the less-stellar staff physicians to train a pool of less-than-stellar incoming HPSP/USUHS graduates. This poses a major challenge for the future of military medicine.

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F#$% this guy. He says that because the scholarships aren't going to top tier schools and half of the scholarships go to DOs that we are less than stellar.

WOW, I am really happy I work so hard to be a great physician for my country.

Let me rephrase my last post. My past experience has been as a naval officer for 14 years, and a navy physician for a mighty 2 years. I don't have a prior civilian medical career to compare the perks and drawbacks of being a military physician. I do know what life is as a naval officer and a leader. Sure it pays less, and you end up in some less than ideal environments, such as Iraq. That is the consequences of taking a scholarship, the blood money and signing on the dotted line. If you don't like the lifestyle, get out at the 4 year point and make room for the next bunch of O-3 coming in. Attrition is expected at the earliest opportunities, and planned for in the recruiting numbers.

I "grew up" in an environment where an O-6 is a sir or ma'am regardless of job or warfare specialty, since they outrank me. Not a hard concept to follow, if you accept the structure of the military. If you are a physician, who expects to be treated like a king, you are in for a rude awakening. Rank does have it's perks, and being an O-3 physician is at the bottom of the medical barrel.

The good news is that the majority of the HPSP guys/gals that go from undergrad to med school to the military, don't have the experience as a highly paid and respected physician. They were scut monkeys until graduation, so they don't have much to compare to. The overwhelming majority of my intern friends were happy in San Diego as junior officers. Good parties, good surf and good friends. Attitudes may change in 3-4 years, but now, no regrets.

Hope that wasn't too much sunshine, to brighten up a partially cloudy Washington day.

haujun said:

It is difficult if not impossible to attract the graduates from the top medical school when the military life (willingness to die for one's country) naturally repels them.However it really doesn't matter. Those high academic achievers do NOT mean that they possess the abilities to become the outstanding officers. The SAT score of an infantry officer plays no role when he is leading his unit into the battlefield. Instead of worrying about recuiting a kid from Harvard who knows nothing about military they should spend more time in improving the military medicine to keep those military physicians who know something about the military medicine, Seriously.

Prior Enlisted
HPSP MSII

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Prior enlisted? Someone should have told you that it's not your job to die for your country. It's your job to make the other poor SOB die for his.

And, I've met military physicians who made the military a career, who have graduated from top schools in the US - Mayo, JHU, Harvard. The military is not a dumping ground for marginal physicians.

militarymd said:

You are comparing apples and oranges. A physician expects to be treated as a physician, period.

When I finished my residency, I was sent to a isolated duty station where I was the sole specialist. My housing was substandard at best....based on my rank and the fact that I was sent as a geographical bachelor. A variety of 0-6s...nurses, administrators, etc...lived lavishly in very nice base housing.

Any civilian physician specialist who finishes training and moves to an isolated area to provide needed services....can expect to live like a king....not like the new janitor who just came into town.

Anyone who is coming into the military without prior experience needs to know that this inequity is what is causing a lot of physicians to leave. The cited article speaks for itself.

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Geez. The O-6's (btw, what remote assignment were you at where there were a "variety" of O-6's?) were in better housing because they were a)married and b) O-6's.

And the fact that the housing was substandard is a reflection on the Congress of the US, not the military. They're the ones who fund housing, and you're right, it's often poor. When Pease AFB in New Hampshire closed in the 1990's they had brand new (<2 year old) base housing. The housing was offered to the local welfare agencies as low-income housing, it was declined as being substandard and too costly to improve.

As a naval aviator I too had the crappy dets and stayed in shi^^y hotel or on the ship, flying in horrible weather to accomplish things I thought were a wast of time and gas money. I was not treated like my airline brothers and had inequity in pay similary to MDs, had way more responsibility and more daily danger, and way less "respect". I didn't get to stay in nice hotels or wear an ascot like the AF sweethearts and even as an O-3, aircraft commander I DID only get respect from those who let me earn it.

Being a military physician will never, let me say that again incase you were re-reading militaryMD's comment while I was talking, never going to be the same as a being a civilian physician. Never. They are not the same. The money, the "respect", the housing, the practice opportunities, or whatever is not the same. If you think it is, you're wrong. Don't take the HPSP cash then bitch later because some nurse or MSC is your department head and doesn't give you your props as a "DOCTOR" or you have to do a GMO tour on shi^^y Sardinia or Diego.

Military medicine has it's problems and they are not going to be solved by bitching. In fact most of them are unlikely to be solved at all, especially by people who insist on sitting around pointing out the problems and not doing anything about. So if you're not willing to work within a broken system for less pay, less "respect", shi^^ier practice situations, etc., to serve your country or practice medicine in a military population, stop wasting your time coming to the "Military Medicine" forum, take your Perkins loans and grow your hair. I'm certain militaryMD has other things he'd rather do with his time than keep telling you "I told you so", and frankly I'd rather not serve with you.

Spang

PS: This post was not directed at anyone in particular, least of all militaryMD. He provides an invaluable service here.

I didn't get to stay in nice hotels or wear an ascot like the AF sweethearts

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LMAO!!!

Rudy said:

In your civilian med schools (or at USUHS, which is very far removed from real military medicine), it is impossible to get a real understanding of what military medicine is like.

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My experience is much the same as fighter doc's. When I got to Lackland AFB AF in '89 for basic training I started hearing the same BS "this ain't the real military" and after 12 (almost 15 now) years of being an Ascot wearing Air Force Sweetheart on flying status, doing nothing but staying in 5 star hotels and playing golf...I have yet to hear anyone proclaim "Welp you finally made it...THIS, SON IS THE REAL MILITARY" i'm still waiting...As for USUHS being FAR REMOVED from "REAL MILITARY MEDICINE" I suppose you could make that case, I mean afterall, as fighterdoc pointed out people freely make that proclamation pretty much where ever you happen to be anyway. I mean, I spent the summer after my first year at Quantico MCAS with a bunch of SEAL/Ranger/Recon/PJ and SF medics taking a course in operational emergency medicine, but of course that was just a "training environment" no where near the "REAL Military". My 3rd year started back at Lackland (Wilford Hall Medical Center), I established back in 1989 that that wasn't the "REAL MILITARY" and maybe I can tack onto that that they don't Practice "REAL MILITARY MEDICINE" there now...after that rotation I proceded to Andrews AFB for a couple of clerkships...and everyone knows that since it's home to Air Force 1 and the President flys out of there it's just a plushed out base used strictly for show...no "REAL MILITARY MEDICINE" could possibly be practiced in such a fake environment. It was onto Walter Reed and Bethesda from there...more of the same, Bethesda is the President's hospital so ditto to Andrews, and Walter Reed...come on now...they have civilian Nurses, (we won't mention the patients who you pass in the halls who are missing limbs) and heck Strom Thurman actually moved into the place...it's more like a hotel than a "REAL MILITARY TREATMENT FACILITY". From there I went to Fort Sam Houston (BAMC) for surgery...funny thing, they accept civilian traumas and burns there to keep their Level I Trauma center rating, clearly any place that accepts CIVILIANS couldn't possibly be practicing "REAL MILITARY MEDICINE"... back to Andrews...Currently at Ft. Belvoir...it's just a community hospital so it sure as hell don't count as being a "REAL MILITARY MEDICAL TREATMENT FACILITY". In a couple weeks I'm off to finish up my 3rd year at the home of the 82nd Airborne and the Army's Special Operations Command...Surely they'll be practicing "REAL MILITARY MEDICINE" there...somehow I doubt it. In short, I guess you are right, USUHS is VERY VERY far removed from "REAL MILITARY MEDICINE", Once I finally make it to "THE REAL MILITARY" maybe I'll finally learn about it, I'll let ya know...

EDIT: Damn...Now that I think of it I wish they would have issued cheesy berets and sunglasses and we could have changed to leopard print flying scarves....errrr...I mean ascots...we would have been ready for hollywood...maybe they would have done "Red Flag" staring Tom Cruise instead of "Top Gun"...REAL GENERALS would have thought of that...

tman said:

My experience is much the same as fighter doc's. When I got to Lackland AFB AF in '89 for basic training I started hearing the same BS "this ain't the real military" and after 12 (almost 15 now) years of being an Ascot wearing Air Force Sweetheart on flying status,

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If you're a PJ, I owe you a beer (or ten)

It's good to see a positive reaction from spang and fighterdoc. I am in a somewhat similar situation to some of you guys, the military is paying me to train to do what I love best..fly jets In return I will not get $200K a year and all the stewardess I can swat a paw at. No I'll get a shot at living in a tent and dropping bombs on places I can't pronounce.

Personally I love it. Then again I researched, knew the good and the bad, then when I signed it I accepted it. Maybe I've just been brainwashed with the "officers don't complain" thing
semper fi

usmc_jetguy said:

It's good to see a positive reaction from spang and fighterdoc. I am in a somewhat similar situation to some of you guys, the military is paying me to train to do what I love best..fly jets In return I will not get $200K a year and all the stewardess I can swat a paw at. No I'll get a shot at living in a tent and dropping bombs on places I can't pronounce.

Personally I love it. Then again I researched, knew the good and the bad, then when I signed it I accepted it. Maybe I've just been brainwashed with the "officers don't complain" thing
semper fi

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if that is you in your avatar, it is the coolest avatar on SDN, hands down.

if that is you in your avatar, it is the coolest avatar on SDN, hands down

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My feelings are hurt. I guess next time I'm rolling off the perch I'll have to snap a better pic.

Heeed! said:

My feelings are hurt. I guess next time I'm rolling off the perch I'll have to snap a better pic.

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lol. my bad. you just need to play up your aviator side a bit more. his pic is a little better, IMO. less grainy.

take one while you hold up on a sign that says Army #1 and you'll be the best avatar on SDN

what do you fly? as a kid i always liked the phantoms and tomcats. something about the downward angled tail of the phantom and the adjustable wings on the F-14. i also had a weird thing for the Saab Viggen (go figure) anyway, i had every friggen almanac and encyclopedia of military aircraft i could get my hands on. the funny thing is i hate flying on commercial planes. even so, it's really too bad there wasn't AF ROTC where i went to undergrad.

Damned pilots! That would be my number 1 job choice in life but I have ****ty vision!

Cerberus said:

Damned pilots! That would be my number 1 job choice in life but I have ****ty vision!

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It was a pretty good alternative to med school......

BTW, I just noticed on the OP that the writer agitating all this crap is a retired admiral. Retired flag grade officers are all just old farts, the corps were always tougher in the old days. Just nod affirmatively at them, and walk away, quietly but quickly.

Homunculus said:

lol. my bad. you just need to play up your aviator side a bit more. his pic is a little better, IMO. less grainy.

take one while you hold up on a sign that says Army #1 and you'll be the best avatar on SDN

what do you fly? as a kid i always liked the phantoms and tomcats. something about the downward angled tail of the phantom and the adjustable wings on the F-14. i also had a weird thing for the Saab Viggen (go figure) anyway, i had every friggen almanac and encyclopedia of military aircraft i could get my hands on. the funny thing is i hate flying on commercial planes. even so, it's really too bad there wasn't AF ROTC where i went to undergrad.

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Yeah, Phantoms (Wild Weasles) were the best way to convert JP4 to fun, alright.

None of these comforts modern aircraft have. After an hour or two of yanking and banking, you knew you were flying a beast.

My uncle was a "double ugly" pilot in Viet Nam w/ 2 MiG kills. Guess he started me on the whole fighter pilot thing. I turned dinosaurs into thrust in the F-15E.

haujun said:

The SAT score of an infantry officer plays no role when he is leading his unit into the battlefield. Instead of worrying about recuiting a kid from Harvard who knows nothing about military they should spend more time in improving the military medicine to keep those military physicians who know something about the military medicine, Seriously.

Prior Enlisted
HPSP MSII

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Recruiting and retention are both part of the same problem. The same problem that led Dr. Koenig to write that article. The same thing that needs to be done about retention will do the same for recruiting. Make military medicine a desirable career to enhance retention will lead to improved recruitment, because medical students will see it as a career option rather than a way to pay for medical school.

There appears to be a large contingent of former military people on this board who will serve just for the privilege of serving. Unfortunately those members will not fulfill the needs of military medicine.

As it stands right now, the military medicine environment is skewed towards the above mentioned group, and as a result, it is starting to have problems as cited in the article.

Military medicine needs to start changing its attitude about physicians....ie treat us more like our civilian counterparts (believe me, there is a whole world of difference) , if it wants to improve retention/recruiting.

Right now, recruiting is starting to fail....probably because of boards like this one, that shows everyone how the recruiters are like used-car salesmen.

militarymd said:

There appears to be a large contingent of former military people on this board who will serve just for the privilege of serving. Unfortunately those members will not fulfill the needs of military medicine.

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I assume you meant "the number of those members will not fulfill the number needs of military medicine" not the quality of "those members", among which I assume to be included.

Spang

After posting and then rereading your post, trying to decide whether you we're slamming my kind or not, I had this thought:

Perhaps military medicine cannot ever be like civilian medicine in the same way aviation can not. The jobs are just different. Therefore, perhaps instead of trying to fix the inherent attributes of the system, why not pay people like me who will serve for the "just" for the privelege of serving, more and recruit, with higher pay, people who know or are told upfront some of this really sucks. "We're going to pay you for your suffering, but you will suffer." I'd be up for that.

Spang

I'm flying T-45C goshawks, and that is a picture of me 15,000 feet over the birmingham MOA

It would be nice to pay the Docs well and let them never move to Yuma, Arizona or BFE, I wonder who'll be there for that Lcpl with a sucking chest wound in Fallujah? While it would be nice to think that quality of life or providing good residencies etc are important I try not to forget this quote from General Macarthur:

"And through all this welter of change and development your mission remains fixed, determined, inviolable. It is to
win our wars. Everything else in your professional career is but corollary to this vital dedication. All other public
purposes, all other public projects, all other public needs, great or small, will find others for their accomplishment; "

You need the monetary incentive to get the majority of students in med school to come in, even if it is just for 3 to 4 years. Very few do so, out of service for their country.After that, if they get out, that is fine. This is a cheaper incentive,than recruiting post-residency physicians. My Naval Academy class had a 50% loss rate at the 5 year point; the "premier" commissioning program was losing 1 in 2 officers as soon as they could get out. This was expected. Those that hang out after their initial commitment do so, because they like what they are doing.

If you want to recruit a board certified physician, and not a med student, how much is the government willing to pay? We had a civilian rads spot in San Diego, that they could not fill for 400K, with bankers hours. Civilian truck drivers in Iraq are making 80K with overtime incentives of upwards of 120k/year. How much would you be willing to pay a civilian contract trauma surgeon, or to recruit a surgeon into the military with the intent of deploying? Don't misunderstand me, I am always for higher bonuses for us, but I don't expect the military to give me a BMW, 300K/year and a 5 bed/4 bath house because I am a physician.

A person coming into any officer program should do so, fully informed of potential benefits and hardships of military life, and with the intent of service to their country and their troops. Anyone read the headlines about Pat Tillman? I'm sure the army didn't give him the perks of the NFL players and he sure didn't make the 3.6 mil that he would have in the NFL. He quit pro football after 9/11 and enlisted in the army because he felt a duty to serve his country. He wanted to participate in our country's defense, not sit on the sideline and let others do it. Let's remember the sacrifice that our soldiers and marines are doing daily, then relook at our complaints.

usmc_jetguy said:

I'm flying T-45C goshawks, and that is a picture of me 15,000 feet over the birmingham MOA "

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USMC Jetguy-
Do you know a Navy pilot by the callsign of "Harley" there at NAS Meridian? He is a Prowler-driver, at Meridian from 2002-maybe still there with follow on orders......I flew with him in Japan on the USS KITTY HAWK. If so, tell him "Clot" says hello.

To others, I've been in the Navy for a while and often tell current HPSP buddies not to expect to treated like royalty. Shoot, our Flight Surgeons were tolerated in the Ready Room. Tolerated based on the personality much more than the fact they were doctors. Heck, an aviator, launching off the pointy end of the carrier; the supply officer providing the parts for the broken jet; the intel officer telling us where the threats are; the chef in the wardroom cooking our meals.....each were often respected more than the local docs. "Hey you're a doc, cool. Now out of my way to the flight deck."

If you're not in "direct line of fire", you're support....simple as that. The military is not going to support the ego of most docs. Maybe that of a fighter jock, but not that of some "support" officer.

BTW, your avatar is much cooler than HEEED!?s on simply principle, USMC vs USAF. Sorry HEEED!

Fly Navy!

ToddE said:

USMC Jetguy-
Do you know a Navy pilot by the callsign of "Harley" there at NAS Meridian? He is a Prowler-driver, at Meridian from 2002-maybe still there with follow on orders......I flew with him in Japan on the USS KITTY HAWK. If so, tell him "Clot" says hello.

To others, I've been in the Navy for a while and often tell current HPSP buddies not to expect to treated like royalty. Shoot, our Flight Surgeons were tolerated in the Ready Room. Tolerated based on the personality much more than the fact they were doctors. Heck, an aviator, launching off the pointy end of the carrier; the supply officer providing the parts for the broken jet; the intel officer telling us where the threats are; the chef in the wardroom cooking our meals.....each were often respected more than the local docs. "Hey you're a doc, cool. Now out of my way to the flight deck."

If you're not in "direct line of fire", you're support....simple as that. The military is not going to support the ego of most docs. Maybe that of a fighter jock, but not that of some "support" officer.
Fly Navy!

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Yeah, the Navy is a good alternative to the Wild Blue.

The thing all the future flight surgeons need to remember, is that most pilots will have very abmivalent feelings about you. After all, you're about the only guy not in the pilots chain of command that can tell him his flying days are over.

And for a pilot, the two worst days are the day you go out to the airplane and KNOW it's your last flight, and the day you go out and don't know it's your last flight. Throwing a FS into it just makes it worse.

flighterdoc said:

After all, you're about the only guy not in the pilots chain of command that can tell him his flying days are over.

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As much as I hate tight a$$es who split hairs for the sake of argument, I'm going to take you to task because I'm bored of doing Robbins Review questions about the bizzillion types of gynecologic and breast cancers:

The Aeromedical Grounding notice (down chit) is a "recommendation" to the commanding officer of the subject aviator from the flight surgeon that the aviator be "temporarily suspended from duty involving flight due to:" the clap, or whatever. Granted no CO I ever knew would let a down pilot fly, but still, if you're splitting hairs

Who loves ya?

Spang

usmc_jetguy said:

It would be nice to pay the Docs well and let them never move to Yuma, Arizona "

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I had a GREAT time playing w/ the boyz in Yuma! We deployed there for a few weeks in the middle of the Alaskan winter to support the Weapons School. Maybe the reason I enjoyed it so much was I got to leave when it was over...

Spang said:

As much as I hate tight a$$es who split hairs for the sake of argument, I'm going to take you to task because I'm bored of doing Robbins Review questions about the bizzillion types of gynecologic and breast cancers:

The Aeromedical Grounding notice (down chit) is a "recommendation" to the commanding officer of the subject aviator from the flight surgeon that the aviator be "temporarily suspended from duty involving flight due to:" the clap, or whatever. Granted no CO I ever knew would let a down pilot fly, but still, if you're splitting hairs

Who loves ya?

Spang

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Spang, which branch are you? Ever do time AT Spang? i was there for 6 years.


BTW, you're right - you're splitting hairs. I never heard of anyone not getting grounded either.

42-43 y/o when I finish

flighterdoc said:

Damn straight! Lived a life and a half, and still around boring you young folk about it LOL.

I wonder if there is anyone else around here planning on finishing their residency at 57?

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