ATTN Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Etc...

DemonDeacon · May 26, 2004

Will you put any religious clubs on your Experiences for AMCAS?

I've been a dedicated officer of the Muslim Student Association, creating events to bring people together and do something productful for the general community at the same time. I've spent at least 4 hours a week for this club for two years now, those are 4 hours a week I could have been studying/working.

If I put this down on AMCAS, and Bin Laden II attacks or Dr. Redneck screens my application, I could be at stake. I know this is something I'll put on my resume to Heaven, so I don't care if they know about it or not. But I hate to have this work and time put in go unnoticed by the ADCOM.

What do you all think?

Spitting Camel · May 26, 2004

DemonDeacon said:
Will you put any religious clubs on your Experiences for AMCAS?

I've been a dedicated officer of the Muslim Student Association, creating events to bring people together and do something productful for the general community at the same time. I've spent at least 4 hours a week for this club for two years now, those are 4 hours a week I could have been studying/working.

If I put this down on AMCAS, and Bin Laden II attacks or Dr. Redneck screens my application, I could be at stake. I know this is something I'll put on my resume to Heaven, so I don't care if they know about it or not. But I hate to have this work and time put in go unnoticed by the ADCOM.

What do you all think?

Wait, I thought you were christian?!? haha... I am sooo confused! It's a personal decision, but if you are going to put it down, I would focus on the community service aspect and not so much the religious part. Just a thought...

kito · May 26, 2004

No he/she goes to Wake. Don't do it. Religion should have nothing to do with this process and you shouldn't bring it in. Just play it safe.

DemonDeacon · May 26, 2004

Spitting camel, Ya akhee, fakartak tarif ana Muslim, oh well.

DemonDeacon · May 26, 2004

ankitofich, I don't want religion to be the deciding factor, so I'm leaning towards not mentioning anything about it.

Spitting Camel · May 26, 2004

DemonDeacon said:
Spitting camel, Ya akhee, fakartak tarif ana Muslim, oh well.

leh, wala! A deacon is part of the Orthodox Church! How funny! I thought your SN was a play on words... demon (evil) deacon (holy) :laugh:

DemonDeacon · May 26, 2004

Spitting Camel said:
leh, wala! A deacon is part of the Orthodox Church! How funny! I thought your SN was a play on words... demon (evil) deacon (holy)

that's awesome!

Demon Deacon is the Wake Forest University mascot.

:laugh:

talk about irony...

cher25 · May 26, 2004

I was an officer in The Christian Medical Fellowship at my school and I'll be darned if I don't put it down. I did alot of work for that organization, and I won't pretend that it didn't exist. I don't think that Adcomms will descriminate based on this. Also, my sorority was Sigma Phi Lambda (Sisters for the Lord) which I will also mention. I was in it for three years. And I have just as much right to put it as a member of Phi Mu does. I wouldn't want to go to a school full of people that would descriminate based on religion anyway. That would be an unpleasant four years I'd think.

Premedtomed · May 26, 2004

Pretty noble task dude. If I (a Hindu) were reading your application, I 'd give you five stars 😉

DemonDeacon said:
Will you put any religious clubs on your Experiences for AMCAS?

I've been a dedicated officer of the Muslim Student Association, creating events to bring people together and do something productful for the general community at the same time. I've spent at least 4 hours a week for this club for two years now, those are 4 hours a week I could have been studying/working.

If I put this down on AMCAS, and Bin Laden II attacks or Dr. Redneck screens my application, I could be at stake. I know this is something I'll put on my resume to Heaven, so I don't care if they know about it or not. But I hate to have this work and time put in go unnoticed by the ADCOM.

What do you all think?

willthatsall · May 26, 2004

DemonDeacon said:
that's awesome!

Demon Deacon is the Wake Forest University mascot.

talk about irony...

Seriously, who doesn't know that?

Spitting Camel · May 26, 2004

willthatsall said:
Seriously, who doesn't know that?

Who doesn't know what? About Wake forest or the deacon thing? Believe me, there are many schools I just recently found out existed and there are many religions I have just become accustomed to.. i.e different factions of muslims, bah'ai, zoroastrians... Part of life is constantly learning new things 🙂

pbehzad · May 27, 2004

Hey I've been a member of MSA the past 3 years, and I sure as hell am going to put it down. I think most med schools have a Muslims and other minorities from the Mideast, and are quite open to religious diversity.
The question is should one put their political affiliation on an application? I am going to withhold mentioning my participation in College Republicans, just in case some liberals are on the board.

Assalamu alaikum

cher25 · May 27, 2004

pbehzad said:
Hey I've been a member of MSA the past 3 years, and I sure as hell am going to put it down. I think most med schools have a Muslims and other minorities from the Mideast, and are quite open to religious diversity.
The question is should one put their political affiliation on an application? I am going to withhold mentioning my participation in College Republicans, just in case some liberals are on the board.

Assalamu alaikum

If I were you, especially with everything going on in the world as well as the heated division of America, I would under no circumstances put political affiliation in the application. I was also a member of a conservative group, and I will gladly leave it out. It strikes too many nerves.

DReject · May 27, 2004

You practice your religion,Islam, which means peace in Arabic. Islam preaches peace and tolerance.

Put it on there because it's part of your life and not just 4 hours a week.

Peace.

derf · May 27, 2004

Spitting Camel said:
Who doesn't know what? About Wake forest or the deacon thing? Believe me, there are many schools I just recently found out existed and there are many religions I have just become accustomed to.. i.e different factions of muslims, bah'ai, zoroastrians... Part of life is constantly learning new things 🙂

you're not a sports fan, are u SC?

lesstalkmorock · May 27, 2004

two words

TIM DUNCAN

😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱
jeebus

Spitting Camel · May 27, 2004

derf said:
you're not a sports fan, are u SC?

No, sorry 🙁 Can I still be in this thread?

DrPharaohX · May 27, 2004

I put down that I was vice president of my Coptic Orthodox Christian club for a year. It didn't seem to hurt, and it was nice to mention it as a step to talk about working as part of a team, not to talk about my religion.

IE "helping organize various campus Coptic awareness events strengthened my working with other people as a team....etc."

Spitting Camel · May 27, 2004

DrPharaohX said:
...it was nice to mention it as a step to talk about working as part of a team, not to talk about my religion.

IE "helping organize various campus Coptic awareness events strengthened my working with other people as a team....etc."

That's what I'm talking about... Here's what I put for my church related experience as a sunday school teacher/fellowship treasurer:

"Weekly, I educate approximately 18 children between the ages of 5 and 9 years old. I devote my time to teaching subject material in both Arabic and English. I am also actively involved in planning and executing fundraising events, having raised over $10,000 for the Church building fund in just over 1 year. "

freaker · May 27, 2004

I wouldn't worry about your it. If your religion is important to you and the activity was significant, why worry about what someone else thinks? I find your use of term "redneck" a bit pejorative, though. Obviously "rednecks" aren't going to be screening medical school applications. More like "elitists who don't like X."

I'll second what someone else said about political affiliation unless you played a major role in that organization. Politics as far moreso us vs. them and often far less revealing about the character of an individual than is a matter of personal faith.

I'm hinting at my faith in my personal statement and including it in my activities, though only a sentence. But it shows how my faith is reflected in my decision making.

Jet915 · May 27, 2004

cher25 said:
If I were you, especially with everything going on in the world as well as the heated division of America, I would under no circumstances put political affiliation in the application. I was also a member of a conservative group, and I will gladly leave it out. It strikes too many nerves.

Well, in my case, I was a College Republican VP and I also wrote articles for our conservative newspaper on campus. I put both of those on my application and got plenty of interviews and eventually accepted to 4 schools. Now, if I left those off, who knows if I would have received more or less interviews (maybe I would have received more Cali interviews if I left it off........who knows, I got acceptances from 3 midwestern schools and a military medical school.......interesting.......). For me, I wanted to be honest, plus it came up alot during my interviews. I debated a possible war in Iraq with an interviewer at MCW and talked politics with another interviewer at SLU who told me she was a democrat. I'm sure it hurt me at times, but it might help also (I did get into SLU surprisingly). I'd personally put down what you did, but you should do what you feel comfortable doing.

Jetson

IndianaBones · May 27, 2004

It's a sad situation.....In a perfect world, your involvement with this Muslim organization would certainly not go without mention and you would be able to embrace your beliefs with confidence and pride. I am sure your involvement with this Muslim group was meaningful to you, but you cannot ignore the unfortunate fact that anti-Islamic sentiment runs deep in this country. One would like to believe that admissions representatives are intelligent, thoughtful, impartial evaluators of our acheivements, but I think such idealism could prove to be detrimental in your case. It pains me to think that anybody should consider ignoring their past experiences or part of their identity for any reason, but as long as anti-Muslim sentiment continues to be perpetuated by both leaders, followers, and the media, that may be the reality of your situation.

Can you imagine the uproar if a new medical school affiliated with Islam were to be founded? And if such an institution were to establish itself, I do not foresee it being easily accepted the way Loma Linda and Yeshiva are. I am not advocating the establishment of a Muslim medical school, but rather, I am using this hypothetical (and far-fetched) idea as a means to illustrate how pervasive I feel the discrimination truly is.

If I recall correctly, some secondaries are sort of vague in the sense that they have a "Church Group/Religious Activites" box that you can check mark and then log in the number of hours, without having to specify the activity any further. I think this would be your safest bet. But then again, it is your individual decision as to how "safe" you really want to be. If you have a name that is easily identifiable as Muslim, then I suppose you might as well chronicle all of your religious activities to your heart's desire. At least that way you will have the peace of mind of knowing you stayed true to yourself!

Well, take care and best of luck to you!
And here's to the hope and dream of a perfect world in which such a thread would never even come up in the first place! 🙂

bruinrab · May 27, 2004

IndianaBones said:
But then again, it is your individual decision as to how "safe" you really want to be. If you have a name that is easily identifiable as Muslim, then I suppose you might as well chronicle all of your religious activities to your heart's desire. At least that way you will have the peace of mind of knowing you stayed true to yourself!

That was my situation. I was honest about what I was involved with in college. In a way, it's a blessing really -- who would want to go to a med school where people will start to dislike them for their religion? At least I'll know that a school wanted me based on the whole picture -- I won't be at a school which can only accept me if I deny an important part of myself.

basha · May 27, 2004

Im seriously down to start a muslim medical school. As soon as i become a doc, thas the first thing on my agenda. Specially given that muslims contributed so much to medicine (avicenna and abu-rhazes.....and a lot others...i couldnt even tell they were muslim since most of their names were changed later on to sound less muslim!!). Anyway, I also would like my christian, jewish and hindu brothers to support me in establishing this muslim medical school (the first of its kind in the us). Anyone with ideas of how I can go about accomplishing these goals, PM me or reply on this thread. Thanks.

jlee9531 · May 27, 2004

put it down.
its obviously something that has been important to you.
so put down that significant activity.
i put down my religious activities.

Spitting Camel · May 27, 2004

Deamon,

Why don't you give us the description you have as of now and we'll give you our impressions upon reading it? I think it can be done, but the wording is key 🙂 Good luck, man!!

Hindiana_Jones · May 27, 2004

IndianaBones, I love your name. I would put it down if I were you. Rush med school has one the largest MSA in the chicagoland area,so there definately associations like this in med school. Furthermore, if it was an important part of your life and you did something worthwhile you should definately put it down.

juddson · May 27, 2004

Hindiana_Jones said:
IndianaBones, I love your name. I would put it down if I were you. Rush med school has one the largest MSA in the chicagoland area,so there definately associations like this in med school. Furthermore, if it was an important part of your life and you did something worthwhile you should definately put it down.

"Doc. . .Doc!! There's a snake up here"

"Oh Yea, that's just my pet snake Reggie"

"Doc. . .I HATE snakes, Doc. I HATE em!"

Judd

Friday · May 27, 2004

IndianaBones said:
It's a sad situation.....In a perfect world, your involvement with this Muslim organization would certainly not go without mention and you would be able to embrace your beliefs with confidence and pride. I am sure your involvement with this Muslim group was meaningful to you, but you cannot ignore the unfortunate fact that anti-Islamic sentiment runs deep in this country.

Ditto. I know its painful but you may have to leave that part out. Some activities/things you do but then you should also realize you are doing it more for yourself. You can try putting down the description under religious club without specifying which one. If you're called out on it at interviews go ahead and let them know.

The AMCAS and secondaries are all about you getting your foot in the door, and sadly enough, the world isn't fair. You've worked too hard by this point to let something potential lessen your chances, even if it is at a single school. Many people also don't put that info down on their resumes for the same reason.

On the other hand.... if they won't take you because of your religious affiliation, do you really want to go there? Also, is your involvement in those activities something you see as significant towards your pursuit of medical training?

Then again, those are just my opinions. FYI, I didn't put my religious activites down (which were pretty significant in community service and leadership) but then I had a slew of other activites representing these 2 sectors already.

PluckyDuk8 · May 27, 2004

I'm making up a word, but generi-cize it. Say that you held leadership position or whatever for a religious cultural institution on campus. Focus on what you did not the organization itself. That way you can show you were involved and a leader but not the religion itself in case a pompous/racist idiot reads your application.

styphon · May 28, 2004

If this is part of your life, go for it. Why let other people's prejudices stop you, and honestly, do you want to go to a school that has anti islamic feelings present in its admissions?
I also have 3 different religious groups in my application. If they reject me because i am muslim, fine, I doubt I'd be comfortable there anyways =D

abbaroodle · May 28, 2004

I guess I didnt really have a decision, being a Judaic Studies major and all. It didn't seem to hurt me, and probably helped me at a few places - definately schools which were recruiting Jewish students, but occasionally interviewers did things like start talking about the Jewish community in town X or mention their heritage. (Though I didnt really mention community involvement - just academic stuff like my thesis.)

I would just be careful not to emphasize the religion part too much, not sound preachy and make sure you dont sound like you were trying to convert people. Be open minded to what interviewers have to say and ready to calmly and politely discuss your perspectives with those who disagree.

If someone in an interview does confront you about your religious affiliation and how Bin Ladin is Muslim or whatever silly thing they might say, you can always talk about how difficult it is to be an observant Muslim who is obviously against terrorism, and how the few extremists have made your life and the lives of many Muslims really, really difficult.

And as stated above, do you really want to go some place you done feel comfortable saying you are this religion?

DemonDeacon · May 28, 2004

Wow, I can't believe the great responses! I appreciate them very much!

I noticed a lot of people mentioned the fact that why would I want to go to a school that would be racist? The thing is, the adcom isn't necessarily representative of the entire school. At every school, there is bound to be someone ignorant, and that person might just be on the adcom.

At an interview, I feel very comfortable saying I am Muslim, although my name is not Islamic and I don't look like the typical Arab/Muslim. I know what I did was not a waste of time, and I knew my intentions in the first place was that it would be something for God and the community. However, there's a time and place for everything, and I have a strong hunch that the place for this activity wouldn't be on the 15-list. I'd rather take the chance and not be discriminated than actually use it for a plus. It does stink that I can't represent the long hours and effort I put in on a resume, but that's all a part of the spiritual life.

SpittingCamel, I'll come up with a description soon 🙂

arsenalgunner · May 28, 2004

I was heavily involved in the atheist/agnostic society at my university, but I'd be dammned if I was going to put that in my activities regardless of the hours put in. Instead, I listed "officer in student religious organization" or something to that effect. I can still list my activity without the risk of alienating a member of the adcom. I was never asked about it at any of my interviews & was never forced to elaborate the type of organization. That's the way I'd go if I were you...

DemonDeacon · May 28, 2004

^ Thanks, I was wondering how I can put something other than "Muslim Student Association."

DReject · May 29, 2004

Listen, DD,
You're applying to what I assume 10+ schools...your application is not gonna fall in the wrong hands at every school, that is assuming that it would fall in racist hands in the 1st place. But I think you'll be alright and adcom members are gonna be open-minded and tolerant.

You need to have faith that it will be alright. Give the adcoms some credit. You don't have to downplay Muslim Student Association. Use the terms as they are period. Islam is about peace and tolerance.
When you represent a religion, you should be confident in stating it.

Don't mean to be tough, but I'm seeing ppl back out from their religion whereas Islam teaches its followers to love and respect all human beings.

Later.

liverpoolufmd08 · May 30, 2004

Hey, sorry to bring back a thread from the dead, and I know it has been talked about quite a bit, but I was a member of Reformed University fellowship on campus for a couple of years. I'm not overly religious, but i enjoyed the discussions we had in there and every week we were doing something to help the community (habitat for humanity, ronald mcdonald house, MOW etc) and I happily volunteered my time to as many of these as possible. But it's obviously a Christian 'club', and I left after the amount of community services dwindled and the preachng began (back in 2001). I don't want it to be a big deal/part of my application for the adcoms and have them assume anything about me (this is my one and only religious 'club' though). I was listing it because i did put time volunteering at numerous places, multiple times, but now i'm not so sure. What do y'all think? should i wait till the secondaries? or interviews? I have nine experiences already-maybe i should hold off? Any help would be appreciated, and if my questions are stupid, well sorry 😀

Thanks a tonne!

liverpoolufmd08 · May 30, 2004

nothing? guess it was a stupid question :laugh:

DemonDeacon · May 30, 2004

^nah, not stupid but just wrong timing (it's memorial holiday). anyway, I don't think it would ever hurt you for putting down an affiliation with a normal Christian related organization. You've done a lot of service, and you should definitely be proud. But it all depends on you!

JohnnyOU · May 30, 2004

DemonDeacon said:
ATTN Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Etc...

I'm a devout Etc. 😀

J~

kent100s78 · May 31, 2004

Don't apply to Yeshiva lol

Premedtomed · May 31, 2004

Being a Finance major with entrepreneurial interests, I'd love to help you out. First, you have to devise a proper plan based on needs i.e. will people attend your medical school and they surely will! Secondly get approval fro building a medical school - get contractors for building, electricity etc. Get Professors willing to work. Decide on fees, teaching style - the whole nine yards. Pay attn. to how things go in the medical school administration wise.
Go to a bank - explain your plan - get approved and start building the med. school!
Things like requirement in a particular area - benefit to the local economy matter.
Chill 😀

basha said:
Im seriously down to start a muslim medical school. As soon as i become a doc, thas the first thing on my agenda. Specially given that muslims contributed so much to medicine (avicenna and abu-rhazes.....and a lot others...i couldnt even tell they were muslim since most of their names were changed later on to sound less muslim!!). Anyway, I also would like my christian, jewish and hindu brothers to support me in establishing this muslim medical school (the first of its kind in the us). Anyone with ideas of how I can go about accomplishing these goals, PM me or reply on this thread. Thanks.

JohnHolmes · May 31, 2004

DemonDeacon said:
Will you put any religious clubs on your Experiences for AMCAS?

I've been a dedicated officer of the Muslim Student Association, creating events to bring people together and do something productful for the general community at the same time. I've spent at least 4 hours a week for this club for two years now, those are 4 hours a week I could have been studying/working.

If I put this down on AMCAS, and Bin Laden II attacks or Dr. Redneck screens my application, I could be at stake. I know this is something I'll put on my resume to Heaven, so I don't care if they know about it or not. But I hate to have this work and time put in go unnoticed by the ADCOM.

What do you all think?

I'd put it down if I were you....

aydinhatemi · May 31, 2004

I am actively involved in MSA too. It is a noble cause to stick with your beliefs. I will put it in my application no matter what and I actually did it. It is an honor and a blessing to be a muslim. (But do not apply to Yeshiva Uni. 🙂))

Assalamu Alaikum

mdmike24 · May 31, 2004

Of course put it on there. AdComs are made up of fairly liberal people when it comes to tolerance and diversity. And as long as your group was preaching a message of love and not hate, then you've got nothing to worry about.

If a particular AdCom does decide to reject you because of anti-Muslim bias (I doubt it would happen, but if it does), then that's not a school you want to be at anyway.

chicamedica · May 31, 2004

To those of you who say not to apply to Yeshiva, come on! That's not fair at all. There are plenty of arab and muslim students who get accepted there. Of all places, I'd expect it to be one of the more open-minded.

Realest · May 31, 2004

While a school that rejected you for having a religious affiliation might not be your top choice, this is a moot point because you would never even know if this factor held any weight when the ADCOM decided to reject you. Furthermore, even if you did know, a) as you previously mentioned, the prejudice of one member on the ADCOM is not an accurate representation of the school's, and b) would you really be all that comfortable brushing off a rejection from your top school? Ideally, nobody would let an a$$hole unnerve them like that, but let's be reasonable; I know that I would still feel like going to that school regardless.

Anyyyyway, I think you should put down MSA as an extracurricular, not only because of all the time and energy you devoted to it, but also because it's important to you and gives the ADCOM a better idea of who you are. Your worries about anti-Muslim sentiment are legitimate, so if I were you, I'd mask the religious aspects of the club and emphasize it's community service and cultural goals a lot more. This would not only serve to avoid "offending" some redneck prick, but it would also allow the ADCOM to better relate to the purpose/goals of the club. I know a lot of people that are miffed by religious organizations in general, but few would argue that community service is not a worthy commitment.

Good luck!

mdmike24 · May 31, 2004

Realest said:
Your worries about anti-Muslim sentiment are legitimate, so if I were you, I'd mask the religious aspects of the club

This would be playing it safe, i suppose, but I'm not sure that AdCom's have an anti-Muslim sentiment. I think even if you came straight out and said it was a religious organization, they wouldn't care. they'd be more interested in the depth of your involvement and in your demonstrated leadership.

and i'm not sure where this whole "redneck doctor" thing is coming from. i didn't see any such people during interviews. you're not applying for a job at the local lumber mill. you're applying to medical school. the people on these committees are educated, rational beings who are used to working with people of different races and religions.

so talk about your involvement with this group. if anything, it'll make you more interesting to adcoms.

Realest · May 31, 2004

mdmike24 said:
This would be playing it safe, i suppose, but I'm not sure that AdCom's have an anti-Muslim sentiment. I think even if you came straight out and said it was a religious organization, they wouldn't care. they'd be more interested in the depth of your involvement and in your demonstrated leadership.

I think this is true, but in any given group, people are going to have a number of different prejudices, and altho you are less likely to come across an intolerant bigot in an adcom, it is still a possibility, especially since 9/11 and especially since many of them are older white conservative men (from what doctors have told me). However, if you have the proper credentials, I don't think your religious involvement should be a hindrance in any way, and you should highlight your commitment to the club.

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