PBL Method

OK here is what we do at OUCOM. We do not have traditional lectures (well sometimes we have them if there is a specific topic that we request a lecture for). Three times per week we meet in a small group 7 or 8 and discuss a case that we are given. For example right now we are looking at a girl that fell during cheerleading practice and broke her arm. At the beginning of a case a "doctor" takes a medical history or the "patient" and we obtain information about what has occured. We then come up with what we call learning issues that are based on the case that we have been presented. For example for Wednesday we are looking at the method of bone regeneration after someone has had a fracture (along with a number of other things). Basically we decide what we want to study and to what depth we want to study it. In addition to doing this we try to come up with possible differential diagnosis and have the option to order tests (such as an x-ray) if we feel that they are warrented. We then come back to the next group and discuss the things that we studied from the previous session and then create new LI's for the next time we meet. Essentially we take cases and study basic science issues found within the case as well as examining clinical aspects of the case. There are instructors within the group, but they mainly act as observers and to make sure that we aren't completely out in left field during our discussions. They very rarely ever comment about things that we are talking about. We are not in class as much as the students in the other pathway, but don't think that this is some kind of independent study curriculum either. You do spend a fair amount of time in other classes (OMM, Histology, Gross Anatomy, Microbiology, etc.). Here is a typical breakdown of what my day looks like
8am-10am: Gross anatomy
1:10-3: Group discussion (Our case discussion)
310-500: Histology, clinical skills (this changes depending on the day of the week)

Things like OMM, our early clinical contacts, and supplemental things such as requested lectures or problem sets are scheduled primarily on days in which we don't have group (at OUCOM that is Tuesday and Thursday).

A few things to remember if you are considering going this route....
1. You have to be pretty self-motivated. It is possible to slide your way throught without doing a whole lot. Of course everyone in the group will know whether or not you were prepared for the discussion.
2. You will not be told what is going to be on the boards or what you need to study. It is up to you and the group to find out these things.
3. Group dynamics can really affect your learning. Good or bad groups can make a world of difference. While you, in the end, are responsible for your own learning having a good group can make things go a lot smoother.

Now for some positives of the PBL curriculum (NOTE: THIS IS FOR OUCOM AND MAY NOT BE APPLICABLE TO ALL PBL CURRICULUMS)
1. Having something to apply your knowledge to helps in retention. Remember how hard it was to remember math skills when you were simply doing problems with no context as to why you were doing them?
2. You do get less time in lecture. I would not do well in a lot of lecture b/c of my tendency to fall asleep.
3. At OUCOM at least, we get more early clinical contact. This helps keep things into perspective and reminds you as to why you are doing all of this.
4. Bouncing thoughts, ideas, and questions off of one another seems to improve my ability to understand things better. There have been a number of times I thought that I understood what was going on, but found out that I really didn't understand the topic at all.

Hope this helps.

hi, i took a course entirely taught with the PBL approach so i'm familiar with how that concept works..

basically..there is less inclass testing and quizzing..its all "hands-on" pretty much. In my senior bio class for example, we worked in small groups of no more than 5-6. We had one general Theme or problem which was the hazards of transgenic technology. Every group was then assigned a "focus" or a sub-problem and mine was the problem of feeding on transgenic livestock...we analyzed the problem and worked in step by step approach of getting the "whole" picture by analyzing the "smaller" sub-problems...By the end of the course, honest turth, I learned everything that is new and recent about transgenic technology. Do you see how that worked??

I am not sure exactly how this works with medical schools but i heard some schools follow the same pattern i showed you with diseases/symptoms or cases and u work with a "TA" and report to that TA. You get mini-quizes or assignments only within you small group - Not big long exams. So your learning experience is contingent upon your small group and TA ofcourse. I know one school in Canada that teaches with that system and what they do is give u the board exam on the first day of class!!! So basically everyone flunks it, then every 6 months u write that exam and ur score increases with every 6 months ofcourse...again im not sure if this how it works in the United States...But Apparently this is supposed to better prepare you for clinical rotations and physical diagnoses because you're education is not in the typical "lecture" format..it is more of a hands-on direct approach.

Personally, I did really well in the course with the PBL and I loved that concept which motivated me to apply for schools teaching with that style but at the same time I heard ALOT of negatives about this system because not everyone likes the idea of learning and relying on small groups. Again, when it comes down to it...its all personal preference because at the end of the day you're doing all this with an objective to write the osteopathic boards exams and the USMLEs so whichever system wrks for u...

hope that helps 🙂

Drbeesh are you applying to DO program or just Mac.

docbill said:

Drbeesh are you applying to DO program or just Mac.

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tell u the truth i'm applying to both...ideally i would love to go to Mac because its 3 years and ALOOOOT cheaper...but i like the D.O. concept more than the M.D because of the philosophy and options available. So i guess i'm just applying for both and hoping for the best 🙂...how about u..have u considered applying there?

docbill said:

see other post.. the one you started about geographical destribution.

I already applied and interviewed at 2 places.. and have 3 more interviews lined up. Still waiting to hear back from 3 places.

You should apply to wherever you can get in. Make sure you research it well. Cause it is slightly different. And much more expensive. If you do a ssearch on this site for Canada and DO you will get interesting information. Including some about recognition in Canada/ especially Ontario.

I will send in my ON applications this week, but I will know soon if I am in the DO prog. Either way is cool for me. I like everyone else will choose the one that is cheaper.

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ya i agree 100 percent...like i only applied to places where i have a legitimate chance...im hopin that the schools will look at my extracurric./post bacc./research and all that...and i know DO schools tend to favor this over academic achievement so hopefully that will give me a chance for an interview....i just sent out my secondary applications so i'm very anxious about this 'waiting' process...i jus wanna get in one school thats good enough for me lol...i envy alot of ppl in this forum who have the option to pick and choose...we'll see.. 🙂

At LECOM-FL the first semester you have anatomy, including gross, histo, embryo and neuro, in a lecture format. You only meet with your PBL group once a week during this time. After this first semester, it is like the format at OUCOM - three times a week with your group working on a case, and lecture/lab for OMM and stuff like Med Ethics once in awhile.

I'm in the PBL program here at WVSOM. We meet for 2 hrs, 3days/wk to discuss cases in the same way as OUCOM. We take Anatomy second semester, while the SBLers take it 1st semester. We take OPP with the SBLers and we take physical diagnosis without them. We have resource hours at least once a week, where we have an expert come in adn help us out with any aspects of the case that are confusing us...our most recent one was an acid-base/blood gases resource hour. We are tested every 10 weeks, our questions are written by profs from the school based on the learning issues we turn in.
I love the system, but there are days that I have the "swiss cheese" feeling. It is important to keep in mind that htere are holes in everyone's education, but as long as you are motivated to learn, you will not have HUGE holes in SBL or PBL.
Good luck applying!

DORoe said:

blah blah blah blah

yadda yadda yadda

A few things to remember if you are considering going this route....
1. You have to be pretty self-motivated. It is possible to slide your way throught without doing a whole lot. Of course everyone in the group will know whether or not you were prepared for the discussion. <snip>
3. Group dynamics can really affect your learning. Good or bad groups can make a world of difference. <snip snip>

2. You do get less time in lecture. I would not do well in a lot of lecture b/c of my tendency to fall asleep.
<snippity snip snip>
Hope this helps.

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What DORoe didn't tell you is that his small group is greatly enhanced by the addition of the great Willowy one. 😛 And we always know when he shows up unprepared for group. LOL

Seriously though, it's a great way to learn IF you have a good group. I can easily see how horrible the process would be if I had a group full of numbskulls. As it is, our group is a delicate balance.....any little thing could send us spiralling out of control. We talk in all directions. We debate the color of the sky. We would argue the day of the week if it was a possible learning issue. Amazingly, in the midst of that, we manage to come away with some great discussions that take 8 parts of very little knowledge on a subject and pull it into one coherent idea that is either correct or missing only a small segment.

I don't know how AZCOM works, but at OU-COM, you are able to try the PBL curriculum and switch back if it isn't working for you. Once you've been through a case or two, you get a better idea of whether the method is right for you or not.

Ok...back to work. I get to play doctor on Monday and DORoe is gonna be my poor unwitting patient. BWAH HA HA HA HA Hope you're ready to turn your head & cough, my dear!!

Willow

WillowRose said:

What DORoe didn't tell you is that his small group is greatly enhanced by the addition of the great Willowy one. 😛 And we always know when he shows up unprepared for group. LOL

Seriously though, it's a great way to learn IF you have a good group. I can easily see how horrible the process would be if I had a group full of numbskulls. As it is, our group is a delicate balance.....any little thing could send us spiralling out of control. We talk in all directions. We debate the color of the sky. We would argue the day of the week if it was a possible learning issue. Amazingly, in the midst of that, we manage to come away with some great discussions that take 8 parts of very little knowledge on a subject and pull it into one coherent idea that is either correct or missing only a small segment.

I don't know how AZCOM works, but at OU-COM, you are able to try the PBL curriculum and switch back if it isn't working for you. Once you've been through a case or two, you get a better idea of whether the method is right for you or not.

Ok...back to work. I get to play doctor on Monday and DORoe is gonna be my poor unwitting patient. BWAH HA HA HA HA Hope you're ready to turn your head & cough, my dear!!

Willow

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That is wrong on so many levels I don't know where to begin

keithslc said:

I was wondering if someone could shed some more light on how PBL is used at DO schools (For example at AZCOM)? Is it used in replacement of lecture style learning altogether or only to supplement it? A good example would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

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AZCOM does not do PBL. I just interviewed there, and they said their curriculum is the traditional 1st year basic science and second year organs. They have no PBL!