Tell me about Touro-CA

Dreamer · Jan 5, 2005

I would like to transfer to Touro after my first year. Could anybody tell me anything about the school, i.e. student morale, general faculty attitude toward students and how can I get a glimpse on the first year curriculum to have an idea whether it is compatible with mine. General opinion on the possibility of the transfer are also welcome

DermpathDO · Jan 6, 2005

I would think the first questions are where are you currently going to school and why do you want to transfer to Touro?
Have you actually been to the campus at Touro in Vallejo? Have you talked to students currenlty there? Do you know about difficulties (if any) in housing?
The faculty is very motivated towards the students and while the school has it's rough edges, as an outside observer, I believe it might be worth it for SOME special students to transfer there in second year. The clinical years could be challenging, however.
I would recommend very careful thought and communication with the school before taking this step.
DermpathDO

Dreamer said:
I would like to transfer to Touro after my first year. Could anybody tell me anything about the school, i.e. student morale, general faculty attitude toward students and how can I get a glimpse on the first year curriculum to have an idea whether it is compatible with mine. General opinion on the possibility of the transfer are also welcome

cure4cancer · Jan 7, 2005

Hi, I'm just wondering, how much respect do the students from this school get when applying to residency programs compared to the other DO schools?

california777 · Jan 26, 2005

cure4cancer said:
Hi, I'm just wondering, how much respect do the students from this school get when applying to residency programs compared to the other DO schools?

I can only tell you that I personally know several Touro students who are doing residencies at Yale, Harvard, Johns Hopkins. Of course, I am sure there are many more students from the school who have mediocre residencies, but my point is that it should not really be a factor as long as you are a good student with good board scores and letters of recs.

bth7 · Feb 16, 2005

california777 said:
I can only tell you that I personally know several Touro students who are doing residencies at Yale, Harvard, Johns Hopkins. Of course, I am sure there are many more students from the school who have mediocre residencies, but my point is that it should not really be a factor as long as you are a good student with good board scores and letters of recs.

That's awesome. . . any idea what their speciality is?

cutaway · Feb 16, 2005

Dreamer said:
I would like to transfer to Touro after my first year. Could anybody tell me anything about the school, i.e. student morale, general faculty attitude toward students and how can I get a glimpse on the first year curriculum to have an idea whether it is compatible with mine. General opinion on the possibility of the transfer are also welcome

Hi Dreamer:
I'm a TUCOM 4th year. Short and sweet:

First two years are fine, facilities range from excellent to adequate, faculty is very good and committed - something to do with the abundance of overqualified academics who just HAVE to live in the Bay Area. The students have decent morale and infect are fairly, er... feisty. The admin are well meaning but not all that effectual. Curriculum information is on the web site.

Third and fourth years are considerably sketchier. Like some osteo and most Caribbean schools, many students have to become somewhat nomadic. Quality core rotations are limited in quantity and quality in the Bay Area in particular. There is an internal 'Match' for core rotation sites, and you might wind up going to do core rotations in Vegas, Colorado, Michigan or assorted other places... a year after moving to Cali. Potentially character building.

SF Bay area is not very DO friendly, with the region bounded by UCSF, Stanford and UC Davis, all world class MD schools which are protective of their turf. That said, they are good places to do sub-I's and other hardcore rotations. Some of these difficulties may moderate in the future as DO's proliferate in the area...

Possibility of transfer: I suspect that if you are in good standing and your money is green, TUCOM will let you in. (Especially since several students were recently poached by MD schools...) Talk to TUCOM. Incidentally, I've already met a TUCOM 3rd year who transferred in from NYCOM at the end of 2nd year. So there's precedent there.

Residencies: TUCOM is new and has little track record. It's osteopathic. Those are both handicaps in the allopathic match. That said, if you are driven, have *excellent* board scores, interact well with sub-I preceptors - you'll go far in all but the most insanely competitive settings. TUCOM kids match all over the place - I've seen matches at Mayo, UCSF, Stanford, Highland ER, and yes, Harvard (I think that was Anesth)
Hit it hard and don't take no for an answer.

bth7 · Feb 16, 2005

Wow, cutaway, that is incredibly helpful info. Two gold stars for you for the day!

I'm in incoming TUCOM first year. Two questions:

#1 What did you mean by poached? How did this work? Do you mean they just transferred? After their first year or what? What school did they get poached by?

#2 Approximately what do you mean by excellent board scores needed to do allopathic residency? Substainly more excellent than if you were coming from a allopathic school?

Thanks a million!

aphasia · Feb 16, 2005

Cutaway, that was hands down the most helpful post on TUCOM MI I've read to date...and I think I've read all the ones that came up on the search.
There are Touro students on SDN...

Thanks!

calichik · Feb 17, 2005

Thanks cutaway for the info!

cutaway said:
SF Bay area is not very DO friendly, with the region bounded by UCSF, Stanford and UC Davis, all world class MD schools which are protective of their turf. That said, they are good places to do sub-I's and other hardcore rotations. Some of these difficulties may moderate in the future as DO's proliferate in the area...

Do you happen to know any places in Northern CA that ARE DO friendly?

cutaway · Feb 21, 2005

bth7 said:
Wow, cutaway, that is incredibly helpful info. Two gold stars for you for the day!

I'm in incoming TUCOM first year. Two questions:

#1 What did you mean by poached? How did this work? Do you mean they just transferred? After their first year or what? What school did they get poached by?

#2 Approximately what do you mean by excellent board scores needed to do allopathic residency? Substainly more excellent than if you were coming from a allopathic school?

Thanks a million!

In answer:

#1: The transfers I personally know of occurred at the end of the first year for one person and at the end of the second year for one other. The member of this class I spoke to seemed to think over five people had transferred out to allopathic schools, but I find that a bit of a reach. Reportedly, multiple MD schools were involved, but Tulane took at least two of these individuals.

The two individuals I knew personally were both decent or better students. One had a family reason to get to Tulane, and the other wanted to be a transplant surgeon and figured MD school was a more likely venue for that.

#2: As for board scores for allopathic res, well - you probably need *USMLE* scores at or better than a level considered competitive for your chosen specialty. Why would an MD residency director give a DO candidate with average scores more consideration for a prized slot than an MD candidate with similar scores, with the MD being more of a known quantity? In the end, to be really competitive, I suggest you show your face, do the sub-I, work your butt off and DEMONSTRATE that you are the committed candidate that they need. The more competitive the specialty, the more true this is...
i.e if you're doing FP, relax - you'll have lots of options.

cutaway · Feb 21, 2005

calichik said:
Thanks cutaway for the info!

Do you happen to know any places in Northern CA that ARE DO friendly?

The core sites are all reasonably DO friendly, but their rigor varies widely.
Many of my classmates have rotated with various private practitioners, DO and otherwise, who have been very helpful. Some are very OMM oriented, as well. There seem to be a lot of DO's in the Sebastapol area in particular, a good Interventional Rads DO in Eureka (!), etc. Availability changes from year to year and will likely increase gradually.

Our students seem to be developing an OK track record at getting into primary care residencies in the area - notably IM at CPMC, Santa Rosa, Highland, maybe some of the Kaisers. We'll see what happens this year.

You can get your rotations locally, core and otherwise, just don't expect the red carpet.

C

dcdo · Feb 21, 2005

I was in the 2nd class to come out of Touro. It seems to be doing well in residencies relatively speaking for DO schools, and continuing to improve if you look at the last match list. I think all the bay area non-university programs are all taking DO/TUCOM students for residencies now with the exception of Santa Clara Valley.

I don't really know how the rotations in the bay area are now, but when I was there you did have to hustle for good clinical experience. I built up my experience by doing lots of away rotations/subIs in 4th year at UCSF, Kaiser, UCLA, etc. It's probably better than that now.

Hope this helps.

bth7 · Feb 23, 2005

dcdo said:
I don't really know how the rotations in the bay area are now, but when I was there you did have to hustle for good clinical experience. I built up my experience by doing lots of away rotations/subIs in 4th year at UCSF, Kaiser, UCLA, etc. It's probably better than that now.

Thanks for thie info. Was there a particular rotation that was really awesome? Which one did you do at UCSF?

When you say you need to hustle to get the better clinical sites . . . what exactly is involved? Can you apply to whatever ones you are interested? How do you find out what's available?

calichik · Feb 23, 2005

Ok, I know I'm going to learn about this once I'm at TUCOM-MI, but what's involved when you're trying to get into the rotations? What do we have to do? How can we prepare ourselves for it? Any tips or suggestions?

Thanks!

dcdo · Feb 24, 2005

I did pulmonary at UCSF, cardiology at Harbor UCLA, Sub Is at San Joaquin Valley and Kaiser Santa Clara, ID at UCI, anesthesiology at Stanford. If you don't feel ready you might want to do a sub I first at a place you're not interested in so there's no pressure while you learn and take on the extra responsibility. Then you look that much better when you audition at places you ARE interested in. These visiting rotations are not too hard to come by, you can usually find them and get info on their web sites.

I'm not sure how they go about distributing 3rd year rotations. For your cores just make sure they are inpatient at bona fide teaching programs, or else you'll spend 4th year catching up.

cutaway · Feb 24, 2005

dcdo said:
I did pulmonary at UCSF, cardiology at Harbor UCLA, Sub Is at San Joaquin Valley and Kaiser Santa Clara, ID at UCI, anesthesiology at Stanford. If you don't feel ready you might want to do a sub I first at a place you're not interested in so there's no pressure while you learn and take on the extra responsibility. Then you look that much better when you audition at places you ARE interested in. These visiting rotations are not too hard to come by, you can usually find them and get info on their web sites.

I'm not sure how they go about distributing 3rd year rotations. For your cores just make sure they are inpatient at bona fide teaching programs, or else you'll spend 4th year catching up.

dcdo has this pretty much right:

Let me chip in as well:
Pathology @UCSF
ER@HIghland
Psych@California Pacific (SF)
Surgical ICU@ UC Davis
Burn Surgery @ UC Davis
- all residency training programs, all subI's to some degree

Look at my message above about the Internal Match at TUCOM to determine where your core sites will be. My opinion is that the core sites in Michigan are probably the best - and the least popular choice. Bay Area sites are oversubscribed... and I suspect that the best 'Bay Area' sites are those at San Joaquin Gen'l in Stockton, which has several residencies.

To get visiting rotations, look at web sites, true - but be prepared to pay poss app fees - $150 per rotation at UCSF, the highest. That's just to apply, BTW.

pm me if you need more detail. I kow have a canned list of issues and tips with Bay Area/ specifically SF rotations.

c-

med26 · Mar 6, 2005

Do you know how hard the southern California core rotations are to get?

cutaway · Mar 7, 2005

med26 said:
Do you know how hard the southern California core rotations are to get?

When we lotteried for rotation slots (Class of 2005), SoCal filled fast, but there wasn't the tension and high demand for the slots that existed for those in the Bay Area. That may now change - I passed through the TUCOM Clin Ed office a couple days ago and saw the posted results for the Class 2007 rotation slots and it looks like TUCOM is sending 15 students(!) to Arrowhead Regional Med Center (Colton, CA - formerly San Bernardino County Med Ctr)for a full year core rotations. I think that's a new affiliation - and likely to be a very good program. ARMC gets excellent buzz among my classmates who've rotated there.

Other Socal slots I know of, I think 6-8 slots each?
Kern Med Ctr in Bakersfield (Good rep, ER, surg and other residencies.)
Chino Hospital in Chino (Smallish, FP residency/internship, reportedly slack.)
Pacific Hospital in Long Beach (Don't know much about it.)

Situation may have changed when you get there, your mileage may vary, but I think your chances would be good if those affiliations still apply.

-C

medicine1 · Mar 28, 2005

cutaway said:
Hi Dreamer:
I'm a TUCOM 4th year. Short and sweet:

First two years are fine, facilities range from excellent to adequate, faculty is very good and committed - something to do with the abundance of overqualified academics who just HAVE to live in the Bay Area. The students have decent morale and infect are fairly, er... feisty. The admin are well meaning but not all that effectual. Curriculum information is on the web site.

Third and fourth years are considerably sketchier. Like some osteo and most Caribbean schools, many students have to become somewhat nomadic. Quality core rotations are limited in quantity and quality in the Bay Area in particular. There is an internal 'Match' for core rotation sites, and you might wind up going to do core rotations in Vegas, Colorado, Michigan or assorted other places... a year after moving to Cali. Potentially character building.

SF Bay area is not very DO friendly, with the region bounded by UCSF, Stanford and UC Davis, all world class MD schools which are protective of their turf. That said, they are good places to do sub-I's and other hardcore rotations. Some of these difficulties may moderate in the future as DO's proliferate in the area...

Possibility of transfer: I suspect that if you are in good standing and your money is green, TUCOM will let you in. (Especially since several students were recently poached by MD schools...) Talk to TUCOM. Incidentally, I've already met a TUCOM 3rd year who transferred in from NYCOM at the end of 2nd year. So there's precedent there.

Residencies: TUCOM is new and has little track record. It's osteopathic. Those are both handicaps in the allopathic match. That said, if you are driven, have *excellent* board scores, interact well with sub-I preceptors - you'll go far in all but the most insanely competitive settings. TUCOM kids match all over the place - I've seen matches at Mayo, UCSF, Stanford, Highland ER, and yes, Harvard (I think that was Anesth)
Hit it hard and don't take no for an answer.

I am just curious what you are doing now? What residency program are you going through. How do you like it?

jephyboy · Mar 29, 2005

cutaway said:
In answer:

#1: The transfers I personally know of occurred at the end of the first year for one person and at the end of the second year for one other. The member of this class I spoke to seemed to think over five people had transferred out to allopathic schools, but I find that a bit of a reach. Reportedly, multiple MD schools were involved, but Tulane took at least two of these individuals.

The two individuals I knew personally were both decent or better students. One had a family reason to get to Tulane, and the other wanted to be a transplant surgeon and figured MD school was a more likely venue for that.

#2: As for board scores for allopathic res, well - you probably need *USMLE* scores at or better than a level considered competitive for your chosen specialty. Why would an MD residency director give a DO candidate with average scores more consideration for a prized slot than an MD candidate with similar scores, with the MD being more of a known quantity? In the end, to be really competitive, I suggest you show your face, do the sub-I, work your butt off and DEMONSTRATE that you are the committed candidate that they need. The more competitive the specialty, the more true this is...
i.e if you're doing FP, relax - you'll have lots of options.

class of 2006 had a total of 3 students transfer to Tulane. One person transfered at the end of their first year. Two people transfered at the end of the second year.

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