To LOUPE or not to LOUPE

SLIMDEETS · Feb 16, 2005

Who makes the best LOUPES? Whats the best focal distance and magnification for general dentistry?

Some clown in my class has 8.0 magnification HA HA :laugh:

Yah-E · Feb 16, 2005

Le loup = wolf in french

aphistis · Feb 16, 2005

SLIMDEETS said:
Who makes the best LOUPES? Whats the best focal distance and magnification for general dentistry?

Some clown in my class has 8.0 magnification HA HA

Geez, is he doing direct-observation histopathology or something?

SPBest · Feb 16, 2005

8X? Wow, maybe someone is compensating for something. I bet his neck is huge from holding up his head with those things on. There are a lot of good loupe companies out there. CRA really liked Designs for Vision. Orascoptic are good too. As far as focal distance goes that is a personal thing, what is comfortable for your size. As far as magnification goes I'd go for 2.5-3X. Much more than that and you will increase your eye strain and narrow your field. High mag is good for endo though.

Fullosseousflap · Feb 16, 2005

I use 2.5 X Orascoptic. Very adequate and no neck strain.

Would love to use a microscopic for endo though!

predentchick · Feb 16, 2005

I have DFV 2.5. I love them. They make the biggest difference in both work and posture...

DcS · Feb 16, 2005

Fullosseousflap said:
I use 2.5 X Orascoptic. Very adequate and no neck strain.

Would love to use a microscopic for endo though!

Ditto, 2.5 orascoptics, the new elliptical ones which i prefer because it allows more room to look over the lenses to talk to patients with eye contact rather than having to take them off.

Fullosseousflap · Feb 16, 2005

DcS said:
Ditto, 2.5 orascoptics, the new elliptical ones which i prefer because it allows more room to look over the lenses to talk to patients with eye contact rather than having to take them off.

I think I will get the flip up kind next time! Probably break them though!

:laugh:

ItsGavinC · Feb 17, 2005

8x for restorative work? I don't think so.

The honest answer is that you don't need loupes for many procedures. They come in handy and are nice to use for maintaining a good posture, but they aren't required for everything.

That was my biggest initial struggle. I attempted to use them always, until I realized that they have a time and place.

SPBest · Feb 17, 2005

Fullosseousflap said:
I think I will get the flip up kind next time! Probably break them though!

I've got the flip up kind. IMO I would opt for the through the lense style. less bulky. I never use the flip up feature, it's more just a pain in the a$$.

12YearOldKid · Feb 17, 2005

SPBest said:
I've got the flip up kind. IMO I would opt for the through the lense style. less bulky. I never use the flip up feature, it's more just a pain in the a$$.

I'll agree with this. I've never actually had the flip-ups but the majority of my classmates seem to echo your sentiments, SPBEST. If you get through-the-lens you adapt quickly to looking over the top of the telescopes and use them just like regular glasses. I honestly sometimes forget that I have my loupes on and will wander out of clinic still wearing them until someone says something.

Plus, I see the people with flip-ups always adjusting them during treatment ----- GROSS!!!! The last thing I want to touch during the middle of a procedure is my FACE! Well, maybe not the last place... but it's pretty far up on the list of things I'd rather not have covered with somebody else's blood and saliva.

unlvdmd · Feb 17, 2005

12YearOldKid said:
Plus, I see the people with flip-ups always adjusting them during treatment ----- GROSS!!!! The last thing I want to touch during the middle of a procedure is my FACE! Well, maybe not the last place... but it's pretty far up on the list of things I'd rather not have covered with somebody else's blood and saliva.

I soooo agree! I see it all the time in our clinic and it just makes me go hmmmm..... Yeah, I am not a fan and hence bought through the lens.

Fullosseousflap · Feb 17, 2005

unlvdmd said:
I soooo agree! I see it all the time in our clinic and it just makes me go hmmmm..... Yeah, I am not a fan and hence bought through the lens.

Guess you guys are right and will stick to my thru the lens loupes!

Any of you use a light system attached on your loupes?

koobpheej · Feb 18, 2005

i have zeiss, 2.5x flip-ups, and i think they work great. i don't like having to look around the through-the-lens type, and flip mine up all the time. the only thing i don't really use them much for is doing things like OHNX, perio probing, prophy, simple things where the exact position of a margin or line angle don't matter.

ItsGavinC · Feb 18, 2005

Man, maybe I should get some TTL loupes to replace my flip-up ones.

ShawnOne · Feb 18, 2005

I am looking to buy a pair soon and want to go TTL since I like them better in almost every respect.

My only concearn is the angle of declination. I understand the TTL are not as angled becuase of physical constraints and require more bending of the neck.

any TTL owners care to comment? is it a problem?

KY2007 · Feb 18, 2005

SLIMDEETS said:
Who makes the best LOUPES? Whats the best focal distance and magnification for general dentistry?

Some clown in my class has 8.0 magnification HA HA

That's great. Save tooth structure and drill individual bacteria :laugh:

.

KY2007 · Feb 18, 2005

SLIMDEETS said:
Who makes the best LOUPES? Whats the best focal distance and magnification for general dentistry?

Some clown in my class has 8.0 magnification HA HA

Sweet! Save tooth structure and drill individual bacteria :laugh:

Fullosseousflap · Feb 18, 2005

ShawnOne said:
I am looking to buy a pair soon and want to go TTL since I like them better in almost every respect.

My only concearn is the angle of declination. I understand the TTL are not as angled becuase of physical constraints and require more bending of the neck.

any TTL owners care to comment? is it a problem?

I believe the Reps come to USC and give a demonstration?

At least they did last year!

Go to the second floor and ask some of the clinical instructors and look at what they have.

Also, they will all be on display at the Anaheim CDA meeting this Spring!

PERFECT3435 · Feb 19, 2005

ItsGavinC said:
8x for restorative work? I don't think so.

The honest answer is that you don't need loupes for many procedures. They come in handy and are nice to use for maintaining a good posture, but they aren't required for everything.

That was my biggest initial struggle. I attempted to use them always, until I realized that they have a time and place.

agree with you there Gavin. you rarely see anyone with loupes at IUSD. if i am not wrong, i think i have seen about 5 people(1st yr-4th yr class) total with loupes. i not so sure that its even worth the $$. i feel like not many of us believe in loupes at IUSD. but then again, people give you weird looks for even wearing a mask or gloves in my class. :laugh:

ShawnOne · Feb 19, 2005

Fullosseousflap said:
I believe the Reps come to USC and give a demonstration?

At least they did last year!

Go to the second floor and ask some of the clinical instructors and look at what they have.

Also, they will all be on display at the Anaheim CDA meeting this Spring!

They have already come to USC. Actually, I was waiting for CDA for purchase them. I had lots of fun at CDA last year and recommend everybody go if they can.

unlvdmd · Feb 19, 2005

PERFECT3435 said:
agree with you there Gavin. you rarely see anyone with loupes at IUSD. if i am not wrong, i think i have seen about 5 people(1st yr-4th yr class) total with loupes. i not so sure that its even worth the $$. i feel like not many of us believe in loupes at IUSD. but then again, people give you weird looks for even wearing a mask or gloves in my class.

Just wait until you use them. You can never go back. It is kind of like life with Tevo. After you get it you wonder how you ever lived without it! :laugh:

aphistis · Feb 19, 2005

PERFECT3435 said:
agree with you there Gavin. you rarely see anyone with loupes at IUSD. if i am not wrong, i think i have seen about 5 people(1st yr-4th yr class) total with loupes. i not so sure that its even worth the $$. i feel like not many of us believe in loupes at IUSD. but then again, people give you weird looks for even wearing a mask or gloves in my class.

I dunno, Ahmad. There are plenty of people, especially upstairs, who use loupes. I can think of at least a dozen in my class--and I'll rejoin them as soon as I can remember to get them sent back to Surgitel to include prescription lenses.

Dr.BadVibes · Feb 19, 2005

A guy in my class bought his loupes off of Ebay and he said he is extremely happy with them. What do you guys think, cause the loupes on Ebay are 1/4 of the price of the name brand ones.....u think it makes a difference?

Cause sometimes, "you get what you pay for" isnt always right, as anyone who has bought Monster cables knows.

Here are some sample loupes currently on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11843&item=4358169173&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29954&item=3874080057&rd=1

Fullosseousflap · Feb 19, 2005

aphistis said:
I dunno, Ahmad. There are plenty of people, especially upstairs, who use loupes. I can think of at least a dozen in my class--and I'll rejoin them as soon as I can remember to get them sent back to Surgitel to include prescription lenses.

Yeah, Bill, you will not regret that decision!

picklebaron · Mar 3, 2005

Fullosseousflap said:
I believe the Reps come to USC and give a demonstration?
*

psiyung · Mar 4, 2005

Dr.BadVibes said:
A guy in my class bought his loupes off of Ebay and he said he is extremely happy with them. What do you guys think, cause the loupes on Ebay are 1/4 of the price of the name brand ones.....u think it makes a difference?

Cause sometimes, "you get what you pay for" isnt always right, as anyone who has bought Monster cables knows.

Here are some sample loupes currently on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11843&item=4358169173&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29954&item=3874080057&rd=1

I bought my surgitels off of ebay and they work great. I gotem for 150 bucks. Just make sure the pupillary distance is adjustable, and it its fixed, make sure that you have someone measure yours (optometrist or something).

PERFECT3435 · Mar 6, 2005

after talking to several people and seeing how some of the instructor grade our lab work, i am now totally considering getting them.

jk5177 · Mar 8, 2005

UCLA requires its first year students to loupe. I think.
If someone can confirm me on that would be great.

simpledoc · Mar 8, 2005

psiyung said:
I bought my surgitels off of ebay and they work great. I gotem for 150 bucks. Just make sure the pupillary distance is adjustable, and it its fixed, make sure that you have someone measure yours (optometrist or something).

can someone help me with this please.. ..if i buy the loupes from ebay or from any other online source for cheap, how then, can I get those loupes customized for myself? Can i go to any optometrist and would they be able to make them a perfect fit and vision for me? Untill I get these questions answered , I am not planning to jump and buy the loupes online....

simpledoc · Mar 19, 2005

ShawnOne said:
I am looking to buy a pair soon and want to go TTL since I like them better in almost every respect.

My only concearn is the angle of declination. I understand the TTL are not as angled becuase of physical constraints and require more bending of the neck.

any TTL owners care to comment? is it a problem?

'm shopping for loupes and still stuck with this question:
compromise for the bulk and "heaviness" of the flip up loupes or
compromise for the extra bending of the neck required by the TTL types?

cany anyone kindly write more about this?

Extraction · Mar 20, 2005

My parents bought some in-line loupes for an early birthday present during 2nd semester. I used them in pre-clinics and occassionally during 3rd year and on boards, but typically left them in my locker. If you want to save money buy some gargoyles, a pair of flip down plastic magnifiers that clip on the nosepiece and you have good magnification for about $100. I used those alot since they were light and flipped up and down and liked them better in many ways to my expensive loupes. The loupes that I purchased (orascopic) ~$750 are great but heavy and the focal distance was a little too short (I am over 6ft tall). The loupes that flip up and down gave friends of mine sore necks as they were even heavier. I'll sell you my loupes if you want but no promises that you won't go crosseyed

toofache32 · Mar 20, 2005

I bought some loupes in dental school because they made us. I rarely used them and they are still sitting in that little wooden box somewhere. I'm sure my preps looked just as crappy as everyone elses.

ca_dreamin' · Mar 22, 2005

simpledoc said:
'm shopping for loupes and still stuck with this question:
compromise for the bulk and "heaviness" of the flip up loupes or
compromise for the extra bending of the neck required by the TTL types?

cany anyone kindly write more about this?

I started with a pair of flip-up loupes. I did a lot of research and had a little more trouble adjusting to the "fixed" state of the TTL loupes initially. I found that the flip-up loupes give you a little more flexibility because you can adjust the interpupillary distance. Also, it is convenient to flip them up in pre-clinic labs when you are not using them. A few of my classmates use loupes for all procesures, but many don't. I personally find that they are most useful for small operative procedures (esp. lingual) and for evaluation of your work (eg. checking margins, depths, and all of the final small touches that will make a prep more retentive and promote longevity of the tooth and restoration). The The flip-up loupes are somewhat heavier than the TTL, but if the neck cord is adjusted the right way, this should balance the weight and make them pretty comfortable. I sometimes forget that I even have mine on.

I will likely convert to the TTL as I progress in my dental career (purchase them before graduating or you'll be paying big $$), because as stated by some of the other posters on this thread, it is an infection control issue to be adjusting your loupes during the dental procedure---especially with gloved hands.

You may want to start with a less expensive pair initially to see how you like the loupes. One word of caution, though--although less expensive, these loupes often do not have the lifetime warranties offered by the more mainstream companies such as Orascoptic, etc.. and it may also take longer to get things adjusted, replaced, etc...

simpledoc · Mar 22, 2005

thank you for the explicit reply ca_dreaming....
and
toofache...am still engrossed in that avatar of yours

or

toofache32 · Mar 22, 2005

simpledoc said:
toofache...am still engrossed in that avatar of yours or

Easy does it, tiger...don't get any ideas....I'm a dude.

rsawpo · Mar 24, 2005

ca_dreamin',
how often do you find yourself needing to adjust your loupes during the procedure, and what exactly you are adjusting: their location on your nose, or something about lenses themselves (like angle of it...)? Thank you in advance.

ca_dreamin' · Apr 1, 2005

rsawpo said:
ca_dreamin',
how often do you find yourself needing to adjust your loupes during the procedure, and what exactly you are adjusting: their location on your nose, or something about lenses themselves (like angle of it...)? Thank you in advance.

With flip-up lenses, you have an option to adjust the inter-pupillary distance. I did this when first wearing the loupes. Also, I have been able to let friends use my loupes to try them out, because they are also adjustable to their needs.

In clinic, we are required to always wear protective eyewear. During paperwork and initial conversation with the patient, I find that it is nice to keep the loupes flipped up so that I can see the patient, and they can see my face better, too.

Before starting to work on the patient, the loupes are flipped down into my line of vision in the patients mouth and remain there until after I have taken off my gloves off and washed my hands after the procedure. This prevents infection control issues.

dinesh · Apr 1, 2005

Get one with a Carl Zeiss lens.
My dad has one, he says he can't do without it

picklebaron · Apr 7, 2005

SLIMDEETS said:
Who makes the best LOUPES? Whats the best focal distance and magnification for general dentistry?

Some clown in my class has 8.0 magnification HA HA

the company that makes the best loupes are the ones that feel best on your face. Most of the companies have pretty good optics. If you're hardcore into optics, I'd say go for a prism telescope (kepplerian); a couple guys in my class have zeiss. otherwise a regular ol'e galilean through-the-lens seems to be the choice I've seen.

flip-ups are nice for:
resale value (ebay)
steeper angle of declination.

flip-ups, however, can increase contamination stuff 'cause you have to touch them to talk to patients.

thru-the-lens are nice for:
comfort (lighter on your face/nose)
less hassle (fewer movable parts)

I bought designs for vision through-the-lens 2.5 mag. Get the steepest angle of declination that you comfortably work with (no strain). From the opinions I've gathered, 2 to 3 seems to be a comfortable range of magnification for general dentistry. I've heard of some going as high as 3.5. Just make sure you can at least see neighboring teeth. I like seeing nearly a whole quadrant.

what I wish I'd known before buying? (1) Try the loupes on when you have a simulation-lab dummy handy, so you can get a realistic working distance and see what teeth'll look like (not just your thumbnails). (2) Make sure your loupe rep is a decent guy who'll return your calls. Our local zeiss guy was unreliable that way (which is why I didn't go zeiss). My designs for vision guy is a rockstar that way.

hope that helps.

edkNARF · Sep 7, 2005

I decided to resurrect this thread to see what if anybodies opions about loupes (TTL or flip, manufacterer, etc) has changed. I am planning on buying them soon, and I would appreciate the opions of any loupe-wearing veterans. Thanks!

aphistis · Sep 7, 2005

edkNARF said:
I decided to resurrect this thread to see what if anybodies opions about loupes (TTL or flip, manufacterer, etc) has changed. I am planning on buying them soon, and I would appreciate the opions of any loupe-wearing veterans. Thanks!

To loupe, no question. But I'd suggest waiting till second year after you've had a little experience working with the handpiece. It'll give you a better sense of what you're buying them for, and that'll help you make a better decision.

edkNARF · Sep 7, 2005

aphistis said:
To loupe, no question. But I'd suggest waiting till second year after you've had a little experience working with the handpiece. It'll give you a better sense of what you're buying them for, and that'll help you make a better decision.

It is interesting that you say that. Some of the 3rd and 4th years recommend getting used to loupes now, because the sooner you get acclimated to using them the better. Does anybody else have opinions on loupes.

crazy_sherm · Sep 7, 2005

UOP had us buy loupes as part of our kit. I'm not sure how important it is to get them now, but just know that once you start, it'll be hard to do things without it in the future. I think the benefit to helping you maintain good posture is greater than the actual magnification you'll gain.

There were about 3 weeks in the quarter that we worked in operative w/o loupes and it wasn't all that bad. Then when we got loupes, the first two weeks it was awesome. Felt like I could see everything. But now that I'm used to it, I keep wondering if I should go for the 3.5s. I don't even think I could cut a prep without them now.

They also don't help much for benchtop work because the focal distance is all off. I still take my loupes off to evaluate stuff outside of the mannequin.

aphistis · Sep 7, 2005

I suppose it depends on the curriculum, but at IUSD you get more than enough lab time second year to get well-acquainted with loupes before hitting the clinics. It's obviously a personal call, but that's my take on it.

ktcook83 · Sep 7, 2005

edkNARF said:
I decided to resurrect this thread to see what if anybodies opions about loupes (TTL or flip, manufacterer, etc) has changed. I am planning on buying them soon, and I would appreciate the opions of any loupe-wearing veterans. Thanks!

I am also interested in this topic, as are many of the incoming D1's I would think...

simpledoc · Sep 7, 2005

ktcook83 said:
I am also interested in this topic, as are many of the incoming D1's I would think...

ok guys, here's my take on this...actually if ya see the history of this thread, i was in your situation a while ago trying to buy new vs used , TTL Flip up loupes etc etc..anyways, I purchased my loupes, which are a Brand New pair of Orascoptic High Res 2.6L TTL loupes ($840 with taxes and shipping) ) but paying in 5 parts

[ trust me, the more you wait the higher you pay as the prices of loupes will never go down, but will only go UP!)
i am very happy with the quality, design and most importantly the weight--less than 40 gms!! they claim to be one of the lightest in the market...
i think the only other loupes I would have bought if not for these are the DFV TTL ones, which I think have a unique design like this one too (both of them have the ellipse pretty small and allow you to look above the loupes and see the outside "non loupe world" ! this is my suggestion...and do not go for the flip up ones..you may never even wear them! and yeah its not a bad idea to get them in your 1st year itself, so that you will never feel the brunt of inflated prices later on! i wish I had bought mine in 1st year if i had the money

dentalman · Sep 7, 2005

Getting it during first year is up to you. (Our class had maybe one person who had them.) But definitely get them before second year. One reason to get them early, is if in the scenario that the measurement is off, you won't be without them while they are fixing it. I think you have 30 days for most good companies to try them out. Also, I was lazy and didn't get around to getting them until winter quarter. I wish I had them the very first day of second year!

airvent · Sep 9, 2005

Loupes are for dorks

mtheman · Sep 9, 2005

bought them first year rarely use them.

To LOUPE or not to LOUPE

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