Where to go if accepted DO or MD? Not a bashing thread

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Ski2Doc

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I have always wanted MD and considered DO as an alternative if i dont get in to MD. However, i have interviewd at 2 DO schools already and have an interview at an MD school next week. I am REALLY lost now. I am starting to think that DO is an up and coming idea. Ofcoarse it has been around for awhile but i think that it is growing significantly and i started to really get their philosphy.

However, i dont really know if the philosophies between MD/DO are that much different.
Whole body, obviously an MD considers the whole body also.
Better to treat w/o drugs, as an MD i would also consider the natural approach first.

It seems that the ONLY difference is that DO's have 2 advantages. Manipulation, and billing for manipulation.
The fact that manipulation works is a fact (obviously only for certain conditions), so i am interested in it.
The bid con is that you almost must take two boards, for a competative residency.

I need to know if it is a FACT, not SDN rumor, that MD's can get better residencies.

Help me i am seriously, hopefully (accept?), am going to have a BIG problem.
 
There are some old boys residencies not too simpathetic
to D.O.s , however if you work harder it is possible yet harder.
 
My advice would be to evaluate the schools. If you feel like you fit better at one of them and are accepted, your school might ultimately be more important to you than a degree.

Most DOs don't use OMM/OMT regularly in their practice anyway. Both types of physicians practice very similarly (dare I say as identically as two individuals will ever do things?). This has been my experience from shadowing both.
 
I know that they are both the same, in reality.
I have done alot of research on this. Even though they dont use OMM, its good to know, for friends/family and possibly patients.
I dont know how to find out if the residencies ppl go to after DO are their top choices or not though.

An1 have any other thoughts on this?

MD IS more recognized, among uneducated ppl that is. And i really dont want to explain the initials my whole life.

Has anyone made this decision, to go to DO, eventhough they got accepted to MD. I know alot of DO's and they all did NOT get into MD, so i cant decide.

This sux!
 
Where are you going to live when you are done? If you are wanting to go the west coast for instance I might suggest MD. If you are midwest then it wouldn't matter. Although I am a big proponent of DO and I think it doesn't matter. There are more issues with md vs do in different parts of the country. A good point of course is that the more DO's that move into those parts of the country that aren't as DO friendly, the more DO friendly they become.
 
Ski2Doc said:
Has anyone made this decision, to go to DO, eventhough they got accepted to MD. I know alot of DO's and they all did NOT get into MD, so i cant decide.

come on now, you're going to make me laugh.
yes. believe it or not... tons of people have gone DO after being accepted MD. tons. your comment cracks me up because on one hand you're contemplating an osteopathic degree, but on the other, you have it stuck in your head that DO schools are simply alternatives. i think you have your decision made up already. 😉

i'm a second year DO student. everyday, my classmates blow me away with their intelligence. i think all of us have the capabilities to get accepted to an MD school. i have no doubt in my mind about that. Some of my classmates chose DO vs MD for a variety of reasons (i.e. location, sports medicine aspect, prestige, etc).

i think that the osteopathic philosophy is very cliche. i totally agree with you about the holistic mumbo-jumbo crap. but remember, the philosophy states that osteopaths look at the whole person, and this is the way medicine should be practiced. the philosophy never states that allopaths don't do this. it is more of a declaration of this is who we are and this is what we do.

anyways... i just really wanted to respond to your comment:
Ski2Doc said:
I need to know if it is a FACT, not SDN rumor, that MD's can get better residencies.

what exactly do you mean by better residencies?? osteopaths can apply for allopathic residencies. if there is a strong MD residency program out there that you're interested in, go ahead and apply. just so you know, there are a lot of great DO residency programs too. ALL programs (MD and DO) have pros and cons, you just have to do the research and figure it out.
 
to start off, this is for my friend, not me. also, i am not being a "troll" here, i am genuinely looking for help for her. does anyone have any experience with this situation:

Ok, so, my friend is in DO school but hates it and is getting a ton of getting federal loans. How would it work if she quit and went to MD school? Would she have to start paying on those loans NOW or could they be added onto from the MD school assuming the total balance stays below the 180something maximum and then start paying back like she normally would have?

Also along those lines, she has no desire to transfer into a ms2 or ms3 position, but to just completely start over even though she would be leaving the DO school at the end of her ms2 year. She retook the mcat and went from a 24 to a 33 and has a 3.4 gpa. Would the MD school know she went to a DO school before? Is she required to say? would it matter if she said? i think she said she is about average in the class, grade wise.

finally how would it affect the DO school? is it really bad for that school or just someone they dont get an extra 2 yrs of money from??

I guess she was hoping that since there is the aacomas and the amcas separately, that there would not be communication between the two in applying.

she just doesnt want to go to the DO school anymore badly enough that she would be will to start completely over. just a personal choice, no good solid extenuating circumstance. a transfer would be great, but not needed.

we appreciate the help.
 
JKDMed said:
I would wait until you have an acceptance, because right now it's a moot point.

what if she got accepted to an MD school while she was still in a DO school? 😕
 
Personally if it were me, and this is one of the few situations I would like to find myself in, and I had to choose, I would go with the MD degree simply for the fact that it's a little more widely recognized.
 
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Praetorian said:
Personally if it were me, and this is one of the few situations I would like to find myself in, and I had to choose, I would go with the MD degree simply for the fact that it's a little more widely recognized.

valid point... but Ski2Doc, don't forget to also base your decision on what you're interested in. if sports med or rehab med interests you, you should really really explore the DO field. i'm currently working with a DO who is a family practice doc and i see an incredible amount of orthopedic stuff (knee injuries, rotator cuff, trigger finger, back pain. he even treated a very famous olympic athlete). i love what i see, and i know when i work with MDs, i don't get to see the same type of pathology (yes... i know there are exceptions... it's just that DOs get a better background of the musculoskeletal system and that's what i'm interested in.).
 
uL007 said:
come on now, you're going to make me laugh.
yes. believe it or not... tons of people have gone DO after being accepted MD. tons. your comment cracks me up because on one hand you're contemplating an osteopathic degree, but on the other, you have it stuck in your head that DO schools are simply alternatives. i think you have your decision made up already. 😉

i'm a second year DO student. everyday, my classmates blow me away with their intelligence. i think all of us have the capabilities to get accepted to an MD school. i have no doubt in my mind about that. Some of my classmates chose DO vs MD for a variety of reasons (i.e. location, sports medicine aspect, prestige, etc).

i think that the osteopathic philosophy is very cliche. i totally agree with you about the holistic mumbo-jumbo crap. but remember, the philosophy states that osteopaths look at the whole person, and this is the way medicine should be practiced. the philosophy never states that allopaths don't do this. it is more of a declaration of this is who we are and this is what we do.

anyways... i just really wanted to respond to your comment:


what exactly do you mean by better residencies?? osteopaths can apply for allopathic residencies. if there is a strong MD residency program out there that you're interested in, go ahead and apply. just so you know, there are a lot of great DO residency programs too. ALL programs (MD and DO) have pros and cons, you just have to do the research and figure it out.


I am NOT putting down DO's, i have interviewd at 2 schools and REALLY like the schools, and i KNOW that they are the SAME regarding knowledge and ability of practice. However, the stats ARE lower for DO, somtimes significantly, so to say that any DO student could have gotten into MD is not right.

Do you REALLY know tons of folks who got accepted into MD and went DO?

Also, sports medicine is DEFINATELY more advantageous as a DO. However, i dont know what i want to specialize in. I just think that SMed IS a possibility but i am also interested in many other specialites.

I know that DOs can get into fine residencies, but do they need higher usmle score (and then i HAVE to take a second set of boards, that another issue)?

ANyways like the other dude said i really should wait and weigh particular schools, not just DO vs MD, but school A vs school B.



ANOTHER Q, can MD's learn OMM, even if not to be certified, can they learn it and then practive it?
 
Ski2Doc said:
I am NOT putting down DO's, i have interviewd at 2 schools and REALLY like the schools, and i KNOW that they are the SAME regarding knowledge and ability of practice. However, the stats ARE lower for DO, somtimes significantly, so to say that any DO student could have gotten into MD is not right.

Do you REALLY know tons of folks who got accepted into MD and went DO?

Also, sports medicine is DEFINATELY more advantageous as a DO. However, i dont know what i want to specialize in. I just think that SMed IS a possibility but i am also interested in many other specialites.

I know that DOs can get into fine residencies, but do they need higher usmle score (and then i HAVE to take a second set of boards, that another issue)?

ANyways like the other dude said i really should wait and weigh particular schools, not just DO vs MD, but school A vs school B.



ANOTHER Q, can MD's learn OMM, even if not to be certified, can they learn it and then practive it?

Yes, we have an MD on our OMM faculty at school.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
Yes, we have an MD on our OMM faculty at school.


Can he practice OMM, also can he BILL for OMM as an MD?

I am sure that i can learn OMM after, but i would like to be allowed to practice it also.
 
I am a DO graduated from KCOM in 2005 and now in an IM residency at Indiana University. My views changed from second year through the time I completed clinicals and now.

Basically I would say consider DO a backup and go MD. I could have most likely gone MD if I had taken a year, done research to strengthen my application, and re-applied. I was wait-listed at several MD schools, but was only applying out of state as my state does not have a medical school.

I regret going to a DO school. Basically, you pay more for less. At most schools, the first two years in comparible to any other school, but once you are out on rotations, your 3rd and 4th year at most schools really doesn't compare to the education you get at an MD school. Also, be prepared to travel. I spent most of my fourth year living out of a suitcase as I traveled across the country doing elective rotations at good teaching institutions (all MD). I was basically paying tuition to my school for malpractice insurance and that was about it.

Yes, I am now at a good program. I am confident with the respect of my residency program, I will get a good fellowship, and my career will not be limited by my decision to go ahead and take the DO acceptance; however, I cannot think of a single benefit of the route I chose.

Those are my thoughts.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
Yes, we have an MD on our OMM faculty at school.

Thats pretty cool. Did he do a NMM residency? If not, how did he go about learning it? We have a fair number of MD's teaching at UNE, but non in OMM. Most advocate its use but have never learned the techniques themselves.
 
dkwyler94 said:
I am a DO graduated from KCOM in 2005 and now in an IM residency at Indiana University. My views changed from second year through the time I completed clinicals and now.

Basically I would say consider DO a backup and go MD. I could have most likely gone MD if I had taken a year, done research to strengthen my application, and re-applied. I was wait-listed at several MD schools, but was only applying out of state as my state does not have a medical school.

I regret going to a DO school. Basically, you pay more for less. At most schools, the first two years in comparible to any other school, but once you are out on rotations, your 3rd and 4th year at most schools really doesn't compare to the education you get at an MD school. Also, be prepared to travel. I spent most of my fourth year living out of a suitcase as I traveled across the country doing elective rotations at good teaching institutions (all MD). I was basically paying tuition to my school for malpractice insurance and that was about it.

Yes, I am now at a good program. I am confident with the respect of my residency program, I will get a good fellowship, and my career will not be limited by my decision to go ahead and take the DO acceptance; however, I cannot think of a single benefit of the route I chose.

Those are my thoughts.


Where did you go to school if you dont mind?
 
dkwyler94 said:
I am a DO graduated from KCOM in 2005 and now in an IM residency at Indiana University. My views changed from second year through the time I completed clinicals and now.

Basically I would say consider DO a backup and go MD. I could have most likely gone MD if I had taken a year, done research to strengthen my application, and re-applied. I was wait-listed at several MD schools, but was only applying out of state as my state does not have a medical school.

I regret going to a DO school. Basically, you pay more for less. At most schools, the first two years in comparible to any other school, but once you are out on rotations, your 3rd and 4th year at most schools really doesn't compare to the education you get at an MD school. Also, be prepared to travel. I spent most of my fourth year living out of a suitcase as I traveled across the country doing elective rotations at good teaching institutions (all MD). I was basically paying tuition to my school for malpractice insurance and that was about it.

Yes, I am now at a good program. I am confident with the respect of my residency program, I will get a good fellowship, and my career will not be limited by my decision to go ahead and take the DO acceptance; however, I cannot think of a single benefit of the route I chose.

Those are my thoughts.

my friend said she has met a number of ppl doing rotations as a DO that got to do more such as START as first assisst on surg rotations. she compared that to MD rotations where there are typically 5-10 MD students standing around observing and not doing anything.

then on 4th yr most md students seem to almost have that year off compared to do students.

her experiences have been extremely favorable. but the huge "i am better than thou" attitude from many surgical PDs is making life difficult...
 
bkpa2med said:
Where did you go to school if you dont mind?

first sentence says kcom.

which also to me is surprising, and not at the same time. they are up there kinda all by themselves. they have their own hospital to do most rotations at, so on one hand its good because less competiton, on the other is bad because less ppl to learn on.
 
First off, let me say that I'm an MD in a surg residency.
If your definition of a "better" residency is a big academic institution such as MGH, Brigham, UCSF, etc, I would say that you NEED to go to an MD school in the US. These schools and other "big name" academic institutions (think of the top 50ish medical programs in the country) will not even consider DO's for any of their spots (except in very special circumstance, such as the applicant is married to an attending, etc). This is a FACT. As part of their ranking process for interviews they will look at what school you attended for your medical education. In my residency (a top 20 program) we have no DO's and in my 3 years I have never seen a DO interviewed. In fact in the entire university I've only seen 1 DO (who is married to another resident, who is an MD).
This is not to say that DO's don't get a good education and make good docs. I'm sure they do. But if your goal is to get into a big name program, you definitely need an MD.
If you still have doubts after reading this just jump to any graduate forums and see what the current DO students are writing. It'll be easy to find forums which read something like "are there DO friendly MD residencies in ...?" and such.
Good luck.
 
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ivan lewis said:
These schools and other "big name" academic institutions (think of the top 50ish medical programs in the country) will not even consider DO's for any of their spots (except in very special circumstance, such as the applicant is married to an attending, etc). This is a FACT.


Well that is quite an exhageration and anecdotal in itself. If it is anecdotes we want I know a DO who is finishing a Plastic surg. (pretty top and "better residency" category I would say) residency in a top 10 residency program, I got name and all and can be verified. (And she is not married to anyone or the like)

I am in touch with a few MD PRS applicants as well who tell me they have seen a couple of DOs getting interviews.

So is it harder?? yes!, can it be done? yes!. But to say that there is no chance in hell is a fallacy, go to google and search "osteopathic...insert here the residency program" and you will find a few who have gone far and beyond.

Again, is it harder? yes because of the old boys club which still prevails, but not impossible.
 
ivan lewis said:
First off, let me say that I'm an MD in a surg residency.
If your definition of a "better" residency is a big academic institution such as MGH, Brigham, UCSF, etc, I would say that you NEED to go to an MD school in the US. These schools and other "big name" academic institutions (think of the top 50ish medical programs in the country) will not even consider DO's for any of their spots (except in very special circumstance, such as the applicant is married to an attending, etc). This is a FACT. As part of their ranking process for interviews they will look at what school you attended for your medical education. In my residency (a top 20 program) we have no DO's and in my 3 years I have never seen a DO interviewed. In fact in the entire university I've only seen 1 DO (who is married to another resident, who is an MD).
This is not to say that DO's don't get a good education and make good docs. I'm sure they do. But if your goal is to get into a big name program, you definitely need an MD.
If you still have doubts after reading this just jump to any graduate forums and see what the current DO students are writing. It'll be easy to find forums which read something like "are there DO friendly MD residencies in ...?" and such.
Good luck.

Thx Ivan. I knew it was pretty bad for the osteopaths, but didn't realize it was quite this bad. I'll let my sister (who's attending the one in Oklahoma) know. Maybe she can transfer out if she does well?
 
medhacker said:
Well that is quite an exhageration and anecdotal in itself. If it is anecdotes we want I know a DO who is finishing a Plastic surg. (pretty top and "better residency" category I would say) residency in a top 10 residency program, I got name and all and can be verified. (And she is not married to anyone or the like)

I am in touch with a few MD PRS applicants as well who tell me they have seen a couple of DOs getting interviews.

So is it harder?? yes!, can it be done? yes!. But to say that there is no chance in hell is a fallacy, go to google and search "osteopathic...insert here the residency program" and you will find a few who have gone far and beyond.

Again, is it harder? yes because of the old boys club which still prevails, but not impossible.


Hey, It's not my intention to start a war here. You're right, I don't have solid numbers and I'm just giving you my impression and what I have observed. What we both agree on however is that it is much more difficult (fair or not) to get into a MD residency program for a DO than it is for an MD. How much more difficult, you and I disagree on - that's fine. However if your goal is to get into an MD residency, why would you make it more difficult for yourself by going to a DO school??? Really sounds like a no brainer to me.
 
jwilson.md said:
Thx Ivan. I knew it was pretty bad for the osteopaths, but didn't realize it was quite this bad. I'll let my sister (who's attending the one in Oklahoma) know. Maybe she can transfer out if she does well?

i'm sorry but there's no way you're not a troll. i think this sister with super pathetic stats who got into osu is a sham. also, you claim to have an md, yet you would counsel this "sister" to transfer based on one post one a message board. didn't you learn any critical thinking skills in that md program?
 
exlawgrrl said:
i'm sorry but there's no way you're not a troll. i think this sister with super pathetic stats who got into osu is a sham. also, you claim to have an md, yet you would counsel this "sister" to transfer based on one post one a message board. didn't you learn any critical thinking skills in that md program?

hehe

join date - 9-13-05
 
dkwyler94 said:
I regret going to a DO school. ... your 3rd and 4th year at most schools really doesn't compare to the education you get at an MD school. ...

Those are my thoughts.

Don't be so quick to generalize all DO education based on one school experience. If you look at the 3rd year of PCOM and NYCOM, you'll noticed that many of the rotation sites are at the same places as MD school's rotation site. PCOM shares a lot fo rotation site with Jefferson, Drexel, Temple (and in few spots, Penn) med students. The faculty at these hospitals train MD and DO students exactly the same - similar expectation, similar demands, etc. I'm sure you'll find the same thing at NYCOM since their sites are shared with Columbia, NYMC, Mt Sinai, Einstein, etc.

Each school is unique and it is one reason why you shouldn't generalize.

Also, please don't throw the phrase "It is a FACT" around. It doesn't make it any more true (or truer, would a grammar-guru help me out) just because you said it was a FACT instead of "I believe", esp if you follow the statement "it is a FACT" with anecdotal evidence.

And if you search (don't take my word for it) Havard, Mayo, Yale, Cleveland Clinic, etc. you'll find a few DOs. While they are greatly outnumbered by MDs, remember that it is "Mayo Clinic" and not "Mayo Osteopathic Clinic" (hmm, I like that name)

OK - enough ranting. I'm going to put on my flame-******ant suit now so flame away.
 
medhacker said:
Well that is quite an exhageration and anecdotal in itself. If it is anecdotes we want I know a DO who is finishing a Plastic surg. (pretty top and "better residency" category I would say) residency in a top 10 residency program, I got name and all and can be verified. (And she is not married to anyone or the like)

I am in touch with a few MD PRS applicants as well who tell me they have seen a couple of DOs getting interviews.

So is it harder?? yes!, can it be done? yes!. But to say that there is no chance in hell is a fallacy, go to google and search "osteopathic...insert here the residency program" and you will find a few who have gone far and beyond.

Again, is it harder? yes because of the old boys club which still prevails, but not impossible.

Obviously nothing is impossible. However in order to restore some sanity to this discussion let's take a look at a match list from a DO school that I believe represents the norm http://www.dmu.edu/com/residencies/MatchState.cfm
For the most part the matches are primary care at institutions that are not well known in the medical community. There are a few exceptions like anesthesia at CCF but nothing really extraordinary like ortho at JHU. Obviously this is only 1 class at 1 osteopathic school. However if you were to select any match list from almost any MD school you would find the competetiveness of the matches to be much higher.

I know what you DO'ers are thinking: these students genuinely wanted to be family doctors in rural communities. While it's a valid arguement I don't buy it. To say that so many students chose to do family practice in Iowa rather than some high powered specialty at a big name hospital is naive. The oppurtunities for DO and MD are not the same. Any students choosing between the two paths should keep this in mind.
 
size_tens said:
I know what you DO'ers are thinking: these students genuinely wanted to be family doctors in rural communities. While it's a valid arguement I don't buy it. To say that so many students chose to do family practice in Iowa rather than some high powered specialty at a big name hospital is naive. The oppurtunities for DO and MD are not the same. Any students choosing between the two paths should keep this in mind.


Have you ever gone to an Osteo. Med school and asked 2 or 3 First/second year students what they thought they wished to specialize in?

I have size_tens

As unbelieavable as your logic may dicate you might be surprised how primary oriented they want to be. Give it a try!


BTW maybe they want to put up one of those poll thingies
 
Ski2Doc said:
I am NOT putting down DO's, i have interviewd at 2 schools and REALLY like the schools, and i KNOW that they are the SAME regarding knowledge and ability of practice. However, the stats ARE lower for DO, somtimes significantly, so to say that any DO student could have gotten into MD is not right.

Do you REALLY know tons of folks who got accepted into MD and went DO?

Also, sports medicine is DEFINATELY more advantageous as a DO. However, i dont know what i want to specialize in. I just think that SMed IS a possibility but i am also interested in many other specialites.

I know that DOs can get into fine residencies, but do they need higher usmle score (and then i HAVE to take a second set of boards, that another issue)?

ANyways like the other dude said i really should wait and weigh particular schools, not just DO vs MD, but school A vs school B.



ANOTHER Q, can MD's learn OMM, even if not to be certified, can they learn it and then practive it?


To respond to your inquiry, I'm a D.O., doing an MD residency. I was first accepted to my state medical school but preferred my local osteopathic school and wanted to learn OMT. There are plenty of people that chose D.O. over their M.D. acceptance, however, cost is a large factor. In general, you're going to pay a lot more to be a D.O. Overall, I'm still glad I did it, but here are what I think are the important points to consider...

The holistic philosophy depends on the individual. There is however a noticable difference in the approach to primary care at some schools that I've observed. Osteopathic strongly encourages the development of good well rounded PCPs whereas, many state schools consider primary care a lesser career goal and encourages you to be a specialist. (It's a generalization of course, but based on discussions with my MD friends)

OMT can be a great tool if you develop it and work hard during your first two years. My skills are average, I'm less likely to use OMT than I would have thought going into medical school. I do use it frequently on family members and friends who are always greatful. My reoccuring back problems have been successfully resolved for the past 4 years after 2 manipulations by an instructor when I first started. (that's been worth a lot). In my new residency, I've had 2 senior residents with neck and back complaints that I've offered manipulation to, had great results, and they are astounded by it. That's a very satisfying feeling. The truth is, unless you're doing primary care, it's hard in today's medicine to find the extra time to do it for your patients. You do develop your understanding of the musculoskeletal system and hone your palpation skills as a nice secondary benefit to this training.

I feel like my training in medical research, analyzing studies, etc. and all that is less than I would have received in an allopathic school. Though many school are offering more evidenced based medicine now, mine didn't and I feel I'm playing catch up compared to my allopathic counterparts.

If you want to do research, some narrow and specialized field of medicine, it's better to go MD.

If you're in it for the recognitions, definitely do MD. Otherwise, as a DO, you'll always be educating people on what is a DO and reiterating that you're fully licensed too. Most of the time, I don't mind and I see this decreasing in the coming years. On the flip side, you're sometimes run into the patient who is familiar with the philosophy or manipulation, that is actually seeking a D.O.

As another generalization, as a student DO I did rotations in multiple, smaller hospitals, frequently getting to see and do more than my allopathic counterparts at a single big hospital. The downside to that was, there was often a lot less formal teaching/lectures than they had. You need a good balance of both hands on and didactics, no matter if you do DO or MD. Ask questions about this cause it is half of medical school afterall.

In sum, as long as you recognize the above points and can live with that, go for the school you're most comfortable with. You're going to learn best where you are most comfortable. Make sure to inquire as to how the students get a long, is it cut throat, competative, or 'we're-in-this-together' philosophy? How the grading system is set up can influence the atmosphere of the student body, keep that in mind. I figured medical school was hard enough, why add the extra burden of competative classmates to the mix when it's not necessary.

Good luck! If you work hard, you'll be a good doctor either way!
 
ivan lewis said:
Hey, It's not my intention to start a war here. You're right, I don't have solid numbers and I'm just giving you my impression and what I have observed. What we both agree on however is that it is much more difficult (fair or not) to get into a MD residency program for a DO than it is for an MD. How much more difficult, you and I disagree on - that's fine. However if your goal is to get into an MD residency, why would you make it more difficult for yourself by going to a DO school??? Really sounds like a no brainer to me.


I do agree that for a DO it is harder to attain an MD res. But how about DO residencies, dont they have their own competative residencies?

Although i do believe that as a DO you can reach anything, i do think it will be harder. So i will probably choose MD.
 
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medhacker said:
Have you ever gone to an Osteo. Med school and asked 2 or 3 First/second year students what they thought they wished to specialize in?

I have size_tens

As unbelieavable as your logic may dicate you might be surprised how primary oriented they want to be. Give it a try!


BTW maybe they want to put up one of those poll thingies

You're missing my point. Let me offer a corollary to make it more clear. A couple months ago I stopped by a Ford dealer to buy an 05 Focus. Did I want the Focus? Sure, that's why I bought it. Given the means would I rather have had a BMW? DEFINITELY. Obviously I never even considered the BMW because I knew I couldn't afford it.

In my opinion, a majority of DO students would jump at the chance to match into something like derm at MGH. However the means just aren't realistically there for most of them. I actually know quite a few DO students and their ambitions are not any different from those of the general MD student population. My goal is not to degrade the DO degree. There are a lot of people on this board suggesting that there is essentially no difference between going to an allopathic vs osteopathic med school. I have stated my reasons for believing otherwise.
 
exlawgrrl said:
i'm sorry but there's no way you're not a troll.
Well, you got a 50% on that one. And that probably ain't half bad for you. 😀
 
size_tens said:
In my opinion, a majority of DO students would jump at the chance to match into something like derm at MGH. However the means just aren't realistically there for most of them. I actually know quite a few DO students and their ambitions are not any different from those of the general MD student population. My goal is not to degrade the DO degree. There are a lot of people on this board suggesting that there is essentially no difference between going to an allopathic vs osteopathic med school. I have stated my reasons for believing otherwise.
I am suprised at how many people in my class geniuenly want to go into primary care in rural areas regardless of their scores. The three brightest people in my class are 100% dead set on primary care in the middle of no where West Virginia no matter what. They will have the board scores and the grades to allow them to pick and chose.
I am also impressed with the number of people at my school that got into MD schools and decided that they would much rather be a DO.
Maybe at other schools the majority of students might jump at other opportunities but from my experience, at one school, I am by far in the minority for even considering something somewhat competative and far from primary care.
 
Megalofyia said:
I am also impressed with the number of people at my school that got into MD schools and decided that they would much rather be a DO.
Yeah, my sister said this is a big problem at the school in Oklahoma too. Several of her classmates during the first week claimed they got into an MD school, but then later admitted to getting in nowhere else. You just have to take that sort of thing with a grain of salt I suppose.
 
jwilson.md said:
Yeah, my sister said this is a big problem at the school in Oklahoma too. Several of her classmates during the first week claimed they got into an MD school, but then later admitted to getting in nowhere else. You just have to take that sort of thing with a grain of salt I suppose.
I guess the first years in Oklahoma aren't very honest. I trust the people that are my friends.
 
This whole issue is actually pretty simple and not really debatable. The following are facts (yes, actually facts, not anecdotes and opinions passed on as facts):

1. If you want to go into surgery you will have a much easier time as an MD

2. If you want to train in any of the Boston residencies or top Cali residencies, you will have a much easier time as an MD (basically impossible as a DO)

3. If you want to go into primary care, other than the aforementioned Boston/Cali programs, the degree you have will not matter at all. Top IM/FP/Peds/Psych residencies are easilly attained by DOs.

4. If you want to go into EM/Anesthesia, DOs are overrepresented in these fields (meaning a higher % of DOs are in these fields than the overall % DOs make of total physicians). While you will have a more difficult time getting a "top" residency in these fields, you can get into them as easily as a DO as an MD.

There are a couple things you have to realize. One is that DOs make up such a small percentage of the overall physician population (around 4% now), that even one DO in a residency class of 10 is overrepresentation. Thus, if you look at that class list of 10 and see 9 MDs and 1 DO, that does not mean it's difficult to get into it as a DO. The second thing to realize is that there are AOA residencies in addition to the ACGME ones. If you are pursuing derm, forget about ACGME programs - your chances are limited to the AOA ones (about 1 DO/year accepted into ACGME). Same goes for ophtho.

Bottomline - if you are into the DO philosophy and don't plan on going into surgery, training in Boston or Cali, or getting a prestigious residency in derm or ophtho, go ahead and go to a DO school. Otherwise, I would definitely go MD and make life easier for yourself.
 
I appreciate all the responses, SDN is really good.
I guess i will have to wait and see.

Som1 brought up the DO philosophy again. I REALLY dont see the difference between philosophies as mattering. I cant believe an MD will treat a problem with an ankle w/o thinking that it MIGHT be b/c of a nerve or s/t somewhere else in the body. While the DOs ARE more spoken about this MDs are the same philosophy in the end.

It seems that since i have NO CLUE, nothing Jerry!, about what i want to do later, but i dont want to limit myself, MD is the way to go. Just b/c, like alot of ppl say it will be easier, if it means just taking one set of boards.

I dont know about Boston, Cali i see, but BOSTON?!?! I have absolutely no desire to go there. Is NYC, metro area, have good residencies? i would assume so but dont know.
 
These threads on all of the "pre" forums are so funny. If you really want to educate yourself, go to either the Allopathic, Osteopathic, or even better, the specialty forums where ACTUAL MD's and DO's are discussing residencies and other issues. You'll see plenty of topics on those forums that address whether DO's have good chances in the various specialties. Go check it out. You may be suprised, and you'll for sure learn something. These are people that are there, and not speculating with a pseudo-authoritative tone.
 
I am there, I just came to the "pre" forum for the first time in a couple years to see what's goin on.
The reason Boston is competitive and basically closed to DOs is the Harvard programs - MGH and BW. In addition there's Tufts and BU. Overall Boston is a very elitist city medically.
NYC has lots of residency programs. The top academic ones are essentially closed to DOs, but if you really wanted to do a residency in NYC you should be able to get one.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
Yes, we have an MD on our OMM faculty at school.

Ok, so he didnt want to answer me. Does anyone else know anything about this?
 
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Shodddy18 said:
Ok, so he didnt want to answer me. Does anyone else know anything about this?

She took the OMM classes and did rotations in real time with medical students at our school, after recieving her MD.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
She took the OMM classes and did rotations in real time with medical students at our school, after recieving her MD.

Thats pretty cool.
 
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