Which is best for Surgery? PCOM, KCOM, KCUMB, AZCOM, and DMU?

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mrdarthvader

mrdarthvader

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I have the opportunity to choose from a several med schools and I am trying to figure out which one would be the best for the surgical residencies I want to get into later. The possible schols are : PCOM, KCOM, KCUMB, AZCOM, and DMU. From the research I have done all of them are good schools so I am just trying to figure out which ones would be best for getting into a surgical residency after graduation. Specifically Neuro, Ortho, Plastics, General Surgery. I have looked at the match lists, except for PCOM, but they only show numbers of people who went to each specialty. I couldn't really see a big difference?? Are there any differences? Or does it not matter?

Thanks :)
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mrdarthvader said:
I have the opportunity to choose from a several med schools and I am trying to figure out which one would be the best for the surgical residencies I want to get into later. The possible schols are : PCOM, KCOM, KCUMB, AZCOM, and DMU. From the research I have done all of them are good schools so I am just trying to figure out which ones would be best for getting into a surgical residency after graduation. Specifically Neuro, Ortho, Plastics, General Surgery. I have looked at the match lists, except for PCOM, but they only show numbers of people who went to each specialty. I couldn't really see a big difference?? Are there any differences? Or does it not matter?

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that most Osteopathic schools are going to have similar match rates in these specialties.

If you really want to consider a school based upon your future desire to go into one of these specialties then you may want to consider going Allopathic. More residency options will be open to you giving you a slight advantage over osteopathic applicants.

Having not decided between the Osteopathic and Allopathic routes myself I cant help you any more than that. Just remember that your opinion of these specialties is very likely to change after your rotations. So, be weary in choosing a school based SOLEY on match statistics.
 
mrdarthvader said:
I have the opportunity to choose from a several med schools and I am trying to figure out which one would be the best for the surgical residencies I want to get into later. The possible schols are : PCOM, KCOM, KCUMB, AZCOM, and DMU. From the research I have done all of them are good schools so I am just trying to figure out which ones would be best for getting into a surgical residency after graduation. Specifically Neuro, Ortho, Plastics, General Surgery. I have looked at the match lists, except for PCOM, but they only show numbers of people who went to each specialty. I couldn't really see a big difference?? Are there any differences? Or does it not matter?

Thanks :)
Click to expand...
kcom

no problem
 
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whichever one you think you'll do your best at (i.e. come out with the highest board scores - relative to your own abilities and determination, of course)
 
mx_599 said:
kcom

no problem
Click to expand...

Thanks for an honest answer... Why do you believe that? I really like KCOM for a bunch of reasons...just curious on your thinking for why KCOM. I have also heard that PCOM does a good job of placing doctors in choice residencies but I haven't been able to find a match list...

Anyone else have anything to backup KCOM or endorse any of the others???

Thanks!
 
DMU is great for surgery because they have a surgery skills lab to practice surgery techinques (with a mock operating room) and AOA residencies programs know about this and like DMU students for this reason.
 
mrdarthvader said:
Thanks for an honest answer... Why do you believe that? I really like KCOM for a bunch of reasons...just curious on your thinking for why KCOM. I have also heard that PCOM does a good job of placing doctors in choice residencies but I haven't been able to find a match list...

Anyone else have anything to backup KCOM or endorse any of the others???

Thanks!
Click to expand...
sorry...i was just being a jack a$$...anytime someone asks for a school recommendation i say kcom :D

i think we do have a good/tough anatomy program here. so that might be nice for future surgeons
 
the answer totally depends on what sort of residency/career you want to do.

if you are thinking about applying to allopathic residencies, i'd say you'd be at a pretty substantial disadvantage coming from a DO school... surgery is supposedly one of the last holdouts for the DO bias (what i've heard, no flaming intended). allo GS is certainly doable, but your best bet may be community or smaller academic programs (some argue these are better b/c operative exposure is earlier and better).

i'd consult the surg grad forum on sdn for better, more authoratative advice.

if you are fine with osteo surgical or surgicalsubspecialty residencies, obviously you are going to be just fine... but i think these programs are very competitive (if not more? anyone want to chime in here?) than allo residencies (just on a # of applicants:spots ratio). i've heard that you almost HAVE to rotate at programs to match, which can be a significant disadvantage (or not)

as far as specific schools, i have heard good things about DMU and CCOM. [esp DMU for surg]

good luck and definitely seek out advice from the surgery forum here.
 
Goose-d said:
the answer totally depends on what sort of residency/career you want to do.

if you are thinking about applying to allopathic residencies, i'd say you'd be at a pretty substantial disadvantage coming from a DO school... surgery is supposedly one of the last holdouts for the DO bias (what i've heard, no flaming intended). allo GS is certainly doable, but your best bet may be community or smaller academic programs (some argue these are better b/c operative exposure is earlier and better).

i'd consult the surg grad forum on sdn for better, more authoratative advice.

if you are fine with osteo surgical or surgicalsubspecialty residencies, obviously you are going to be just fine... but i think these programs are very competitive (if not more? anyone want to chime in here?) than allo residencies (just on a # of applicants:spots ratio). i've heard that you almost HAVE to rotate at programs to match, which can be a significant disadvantage (or not)

as far as specific schools, i have heard good things about DMU and CCOM. [esp DMU for surg]

good luck and definitely seek out advice from the surgery forum here.
Click to expand...

Thanks Goose-D...I also applied to MD schools, but my scores just were not as competitive for MD as they are for DO. I am just trying to find the best info for the options I currently have... DMU so far sounds interesting...

I thought DO's might do better with the residencies since we could apply to both...??

Anyone backup DMU for surg residencies??? Or suggest others??
 
Your board scores will determine your residency far more than what school you went to. Having said that, obviously which school you attend will affect your board scores - what you learn = your score.

Contact the schools you are applying to and ask for their board pass rates (for both COMLEX and USMLE). Higher passing rates will generally mean their students were better prepared and, probably, that you are likely to get a higher score.
 
I can't really tell you who is the best, but I do know that DMU will train you to be more than adequately prepared before you go out on rotations. We have a required surgical skills lab second year that will teach you the in's and out's of the OR. The surgery lab is actually being replaced with a bigger and better one right now. And this spring DMU is hosting the Student Osteopathic Surgical Association convention just to show off our program (its not to impress people with des moines or iowa in general.) Also, there is a general surgery residency here in des moines.

I do agree, though, with a post above that you shouldn't pick a school based on its match list. We do consistently have people going into general surgery and sub-specialty residencies, but it is up to you if you are gonna make it or not. (although i have noticed that some DO schools have few, if any, sub-specialty matches, as far as surgery goes)
 
I do know that AZCOM's board pass rates kick butt...often 99%, sometimes 100%. They stressed that a LOT in the interview. I'm happy you asked this question, though....I also had specialty questions & this is answering some of them.
 
rjfreed said:
I can't really tell you who is the best, but I do know that DMU will train you to be more than adequately prepared before you go out on rotations. We have a required surgical skills lab second year that will teach you the in's and out's of the OR. The surgery lab is actually being replaced with a bigger and better one right now. And this spring DMU is hosting the Student Osteopathic Surgical Association convention just to show off our program (its not to impress people with des moines or iowa in general.) Also, there is a general surgery residency here in des moines.
Click to expand...

Great info.... Thanks guys! So far sounds like DMU has the advantage...
:D This is helpful...

Any ideas or thoughts about PCOM being any good for surg specialties...???
 
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I'm pretty sure the majority of M1's will probably pimp their respective school. With that being said definitely choose CCOM. JK, but if you have any questions feel free to PM me.

Billy
 
I interviewed at PCOM yesterday, and was given a chance to see their "Holy Grail" match list that is never posted. They match students into Neurosurgery if you want. Thats about as high standard and subspecialty of a position as you can get.

So it's really a matter of where you want to go and how well you do in rotations and board scores.
 
mrdarthvader said:
I have the opportunity to choose from a several med schools and I am trying to figure out which one would be the best for the surgical residencies I want to get into later. The possible schols are : PCOM, KCOM, KCUMB, AZCOM, and DMU. From the research I have done all of them are good schools so I am just trying to figure out which ones would be best for getting into a surgical residency after graduation. Specifically Neuro, Ortho, Plastics, General Surgery. I have looked at the match lists, except for PCOM, but they only show numbers of people who went to each specialty. I couldn't really see a big difference?? Are there any differences? Or does it not matter?

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

PCOM

HANDS DOWN

PCOM is the only school that has its own residencies in all of these areas. Some of these schools have 0, 1, or 2 of the residencies/fellowships you have listed. Only PCOM has all 4. If you attend PCOM, then you will have dibs on these programs.
 
mrdarthvader said:
I have looked at the match lists, except for PCOM, but they only show numbers of people who went to each specialty. I couldn't really see a big difference??
Click to expand...

when i look at the match lists for these schools... http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=175626

...it tells you the name of each hospital..not just the numbers in each specialty. AZCOM even gives you the names of all the students that place. I dont know which lists you were looking at

mrdarthvader said:
Are there any differences? Or does it not matter?

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

yea, it makes a difference.. getting a residency at wash U is better than getting a residency at podunk hospital. Look at some of the surgery matches and do a little looking at the hospital website (if they have one).. this might give you some insight on how good the residency is
 
OSUdoc08 said:
PCOM

HANDS DOWN

PCOM is the only school that has its own residencies in all of these areas. Some of these schools have 0, 1, or 2 of the residencies/fellowships you have listed. Only PCOM has all 4. If you attend PCOM, then you will have dibs on these programs.
Click to expand...

Great info....thanks a lot OSUdoc08 and KMMD...:D This is the type of information I was looking for. Especially since not many have seen their residency list. I agree that having residencies in those area at those schools is a major factor. That to me puts PCOM above DMU a little bit...at least in this area for me, since that is really what I want to do...

Thanks :)
 
KMMD said:
I interviewed at PCOM yesterday, and was given a chance to see their "Holy Grail" match list that is never posted. They match students into Neurosurgery if you want. Thats about as high standard and subspecialty of a position as you can get.

So it's really a matter of where you want to go and how well you do in rotations and board scores.
Click to expand...


I hoped you smuggled that list out. I still haven't seen it and I have been there three months. The school is good and its location will give you access to alot of good hospitals and the name gets respect from the allopathic institutions as well
 
mrdarthvader said:
Great info....thanks a lot OSUdoc08 and KMMD...:D This is the type of information I was looking for. Especially since not many have seen their residency list. I agree that having residencies in those area at those schools is a major factor. That to me puts PCOM above DMU a little bit...at least in this area for me, since that is really what I want to do...

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

I also think that going to a school with those programs is an easy way to get your foot in the door, but like myself and others said, its all about the training, as well as the hard work on your part. Doing great in a school that fits you will allow you to get into any program, not just the home program. That is more important than going to a school just because they have their own plastics program.

DMU is affiliated with Ohio-CORE. They have all the residencies you are looking at. Its not in Des Moines, but instead of 1 ortho program, there are 7 in the CORE setup. We also work closely with michigan residencies. So if you aren't afraid of moving around a little (what DO won't be), then this is a pretty good deal.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
PCOM

HANDS DOWN

PCOM is the only school that has its own residencies in all of these areas. Some of these schools have 0, 1, or 2 of the residencies/fellowships you have listed. Only PCOM has all 4. If you attend PCOM, then you will have dibs on these programs.
Click to expand...


hands down.......??

i would take his advice with a grain of salt. (as with anyone's advice, including mine) he always seems to know the exact right answer all the time. and even if he happens to be right, it could have been said in a more informative and less asinine manner.

here are a couple links for the op

Ohio CORE

DMU 2005 match list
 
I am not sure about those specific residencies, but according the US News, PCOM has the LEAST number of students going into primary care out of the Osteopathic schools by far.
 
While on rotations, I have seen DOs (from PCOM) in at least 2 ACGME General Surgery residency.

Anyway, if you want to do an AOA residency, PCOM has the following surgical residencies:
General Surgery
Neurosurgery
Optho
Ortho
ENT (and Oro-Facial plastic surg)
Plastics & Reconstructive
Urology
Vascular

Also keep in mind that many of PCOM's rotation sites are shared with Drexel, Jefferson, Temple, and Penn students so your surgery LORs will be from people who have trained many students (MDs and DOs). Another plus is you can stay "relatively" close to your home base of Philly if you want to during your 3rd and 4th year. (It is also possible to avoid Philly during your 3rd and 4th year if that is your preference)


Last year during one of the plastics surgery lecture given to 2nd yr students, Dr. Leis told the students that PCOM alum have an advantage when he review applications.

However, you can still get into any of those surgical fields going to the other DO schools. Who knows, you may switch from surgery into another field that you later find interesting :)

Good luck in your decision and all the best
 
LHUEMT911 said:
I am not sure about those specific residencies, but according the US News, PCOM has the LEAST number of students going into primary care out of the Osteopathic schools by far.
Click to expand...

Here is the list of PCOM's affiliated residencies and spots available. Draw your own conclusions.

Emergency Med - 36
Family Med - 12
General Surgery - 16
Geriatrics - 6
Internal Medicine - 30
Neurosurgery - 6
Ob/gyn - 16
Opthomology - 7
Orthopedic Surgery - 21
OMM - 4
Otorhinolaryngology
Head and Neck Surgery
and Oro-Facial Plastic Surgery - 8
Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery - 6
Urologic Surgery - 9
Vascular Surgery - 2
 
rjfreed said:
hands down.......??

i would take his advice with a grain of salt. (as with anyone's advice, including mine) he always seems to know the exact right answer all the time. and even if he happens to be right, it could have been said in a more informative and less asinine manner.

here are a couple links for the op

Ohio CORE

DMU 2005 match list
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insult. Only PCOM has all of the listed residencies.

Period.
 
Anyone know roughly the tuition cost for PCOM per year? I'm having trouble finding anything on their website.
 
Taus said:
Here is the list of PCOM's affiliated residencies and spots available. Draw your own conclusions.

Emergency Med - 36
Family Med - 12
General Surgery - 16
Geriatrics - 6
Internal Medicine - 30
Neurosurgery - 6
Ob/gyn - 16
Opthomology - 7
Orthopedic Surgery - 21
OMM - 4
Otorhinolaryngology
Head and Neck Surgery
and Oro-Facial Plastic Surgery - 8
Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery - 6
Urologic Surgery - 9
Vascular Surgery - 2
Click to expand...

Very impressive list!
 
anyone have stats for students coming out of WVSOM?
 
Taus said:
Here is the list of PCOM's affiliated residencies and spots available. Draw your own conclusions.

Emergency Med - 36
Family Med - 12
General Surgery - 16
Geriatrics - 6
Internal Medicine - 30
Neurosurgery - 6
Ob/gyn - 16
Opthomology - 7
Orthopedic Surgery - 21
OMM - 4
Otorhinolaryngology
Head and Neck Surgery
and Oro-Facial Plastic Surgery - 8
Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery - 6
Urologic Surgery - 9
Vascular Surgery - 2
Click to expand...

Thanks for that list....that really puts it into perspective. I am not sure how many are open per year, but still very impressive. PCOM and DMU both look to be excellent. Still have to give a considerable edge to PCOM though just for the sheer number of residencies in the specialties I am interested in.

Just curious but any thoughts on how AZCOM compares??

Thanks :)
 
Taus said:
Here is the list of PCOM's affiliated residencies and spots available. Draw your own conclusions.

Emergency Med - 36
Family Med - 12
General Surgery - 16
Geriatrics - 6
Internal Medicine - 30
Neurosurgery - 6
Ob/gyn - 16
Opthomology - 7
Orthopedic Surgery - 21
OMM - 4
Otorhinolaryngology
Head and Neck Surgery
and Oro-Facial Plastic Surgery - 8
Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery - 6
Urologic Surgery - 9
Vascular Surgery - 2
Click to expand...

Assuming these are total numbers, for plastics this translates to 1 spot per year, MAYBE two. I'm guessing it will be a spot for a PCOM grad. I don't see how it would make sense for them to consider several equally and highly qualified individuals and not go with the insider.
 
group_theory said:
Last year during one of the plastics surgery lecture given to 2nd yr students, Dr. Leis told the students that PCOM alum have an advantage when he review applications.
Click to expand...

That is interesting, on a conversation with him and staff he demonstrated to have little knowledge about PCOM's gen surgery residency and the general tone was that there was no insider preference. In fact, I know a current resident who is not a PCOM graduate and a current PCOM PRS surgeon who did his med at NYCOM. You make of that what you wish...
 
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