TC-Columbia Reputation

splendid said:

Does anyone know anything about the reputation of the clinical psychology PhD program at Teacher's College, Columbia University? Has it changed a lot recently? How would going to a school like TC affect you when you are looking for internships/jobs as compared to other PhD programs? How competitive is the program compared to other PhD programs?

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I almost applied there this year, but then I found out that they do not provide funding... That's all I know.

I got my masters from there- it was atrocious.

I do not think it is regarded very highly. I went to CU for undergrad and my advisors there cautioned me about applying there. It is seen as a money mill and it's rare that students graduate in 5 or even 7 years. It is also in danger of losing APA accreditation because there is not much emphasis on research.

I know one excellent clinical Ph.D candidate who attended briefly, for a masters, and left due to horrible advising. I don't know if that is representative of the entire program.

perfektspace said:

I know one excellent clinical Ph.D candidate who attended briefly, for a masters, and left due to horrible advising. I don't know if that is representative of the entire program.

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It's still a competitive program because its one of the few clinical psych programs in NYC, so everyone and their mom who wants to stay in the city applies. Personally though, I would not recommend it.

Like Sara said, they don't so much fund (I think some students get half tuition?). They have also been on accredition probabation in the recent past. Any mentor I have discussed the program with warned me against it- so it doesn't have a very good reputation if research is your thing.

Also, I've taken some grad level classes through TC and I must say that the calibre of students (throughout TC, not the clinical program specifically) really varies. It's a shame.

clinpsychgirl said:

It's still a competitive program because its one of the few clinical psych programs in NYC, so everyone and their mom who wants to stay in the city applies. Personally though, I would not recommend it.

Like Sara said, they don't so much fund (I think some students get half tuition?). They have also been on accredition probabation in the recent past. Any mentor I have discussed the program with warned me against it- so it doesn't have a very good reputation if research is your thing.

Also, I've taken some grad level classes through TC and I must say that the calibre of students (throughout TC, not the clinical program specifically) really varies. It's a shame.

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What's most disconcerting is that the issues raised above were the same issues that my professors cautioned me about when I applied to grad school in 1998. It seems clear that they haven't done much to address or rectify these problems.

LM02 said:

What's most disconcerting is that the issues raised above were the same issues that my professors cautioned me about when I applied to grad school in 1998. It seems clear that they haven't done much to address or rectify these problems.

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It's really a shame. There is some talk from within Columbia about shutting down the program and revamping it (sort of like what NYU is *apparently* doing) and bringing in some fresh new researchers. I doubt that it will happen, but who knows...

are these issues strictly related to the clinical psych program or are you referring to all of teacher's college?

I think those are mainly the concerns for the clinical phd program.

hot4gradschool said:

are these issues strictly related to the clinical psych program or are you referring to all of teacher's college?

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The things I've brought up are specific to the clinical psychology program. The exception being that I've taken a couple of graduate level classes within TC and the students in those classes were from a variety of programs within TC.

Two things. I think it depends who you work with at TC. If you work with George Bonanno, and maybe one or two of the other people on faculty, you can go places and get things done. Bonanno is first rate. But most of the faculty there are not doing research and not publishing that much, and hardly any are funded. Second, in regards to a previous post, NYU has no plans on revamping their clinical program. I have this information directly from two former faculty members.

Regards,
TF

flanagan10 said:

Two things. I think it depends who you work with at TC. If you work with George Bonanno, and maybe one or two of the other people on faculty, you can go places and get things done. Bonanno is first rate. But most of the faculty there are not doing research and not publishing that much, and hardly any are funded. Second, in regards to a previous post, NYU has no plans on revamping their clinical program. I have this information directly from two former faculty members.

Regards,
TF

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I know a former NYU faculty member as well who is now at Columbia and she says the original rational behind them shutting the program was to rebuild it. However, it seems unlikely that it will actually happen.

flanagan10 said:

Two things. I think it depends who you work with at TC. If you work with George Bonanno, and maybe one or two of the other people on faculty, you can go places and get things done. Bonanno is first rate. But most of the faculty there are not doing research and not publishing that much, and hardly any are funded. Second, in regards to a previous post, NYU has no plans on revamping their clinical program. I have this information directly from two former faculty members.

Regards,
TF

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I agree with the first point. There are one or two faculty at TC who really stand out research-wise. If you work with them, you're experience will be very different (in a positive way).

blueapple said:

I agree with the first point. There are one or two faculty at TC who really stand out research-wise. If you work with them, you're experience will be very different (in a positive way).

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Also worthy of mention, the woman who teaches the stats course is best stats professor ever. She really is great.

I think the biggest problem with the program is that you likely will have to pay out of your a$$ to attend and then there's also the looming threat of potentially losing your accreditation.

clinpsychgirl said:

Also worthy of mention, the woman who teaches the stats course is best stats professor ever. She really is great.

I think the biggest problem with the program is that you likely will have to pay out of your a$$ to attend and then there's also the looming threat of potentially losing your accreditation.

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Don't know about assessing risk of losing accredation, but one can actually get a fair amt of funding if working with the right professor....

blueapple said:

Don't know about assessing risk of losing accredation, but one can actually get a fair amt of funding if working with the right professor....

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I think that's valuable information for people to know. Generally, as per the APA guide book (which I don't have on me today) -if I recall correctly, the average package is half tuition.

Also, they were recently on accredition probabation- not sure if it has been lifted?

clinpsychgirl said:

I know a former NYU faculty member as well who is now at Columbia and she says the original rational behind them shutting the program was to rebuild it. However, it seems unlikely that it will actually happen.

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This is correct. I work in the psych dept and they have shown no indication of any rebuilding. Their primary focus is cognition/perception/cogneuro, which is a top rate program.

I have a friend who just completed the master's program at TC. She worked in my lab at NYU because there were limited research opportunities within her program. I'm not sure if the same is true for doctoral students.

I am positive on the NYU information though. I have verified this with Susan Andersen. TF

clinpsychgirl said:

...Also, they were recently on accredition probabation- not sure if it has been lifted?

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Just looked into accredition for TC. They were reviewed in 2005 and their status was updated to scientist-practitioner to reflect the increasing focus on research.

I believe they were on accreditation probation until their 2001 site visit.

It's good to hear they've made some positive changes.

However, I think that the issue is more of the general funding package/cost of living in NYC than APA accreditation status.

Did anyone see the new US News and World Report rankings? TC Columbia is ranked the 2nd highest school of education.... due to other programs? ?? I don't put much stock in rankings but this seems to make them even less important.

Would you trust US News as a competent source for news? Why would anyone trust them for schools though is beyond me.

I'm actually really surprised by the overwhelmingly negative image of TC. I did my masters there and am going back for the Ph.D. I want to use this space to provide some counter-arguments and perhaps highlight why it might be worth it to be one of the 400+ people who applied and why it will not be such an "atrocious" experience after all.

Generally speaking, as a masters student I loved my experience there and thought the faculty were extremely supportive and encouraging. Someone mentioned something about only one good professor. I felt like they were all really inspiring...I also felt like they were all extremely accessible. In a rigorous academic environment, particularly at Ivy League schools, that is kind of rare I think.

As a masters student there I found that there were two groups of students in the masters class- those who had only applied to the masters program, and those who had applied to the doctoral program but had been placed in the masters. Generally speaking I would say that the "complainers" belonged to the latter group, of course there may be exceptions. I had only applied to the masters degree and found it to be a very useful experience. My classes were very academically motivating and the other students came from very diverse and interesting backgrounds. It was positive enough that I knew I would not mind paying for TC again for my Doctorate.

As for their Doctoral training, TC's program is extremely well-rounded and structured. The curriculum exposes you to various theoretical orientations and the program is structured so you can truly be a good clinician AND academician (rather than either/or). I also think the timing of dissertation and internship is designed to encourage people to finish soon. Their avg. time to completion of the degree is 7-7.5 years and that is just about at the avg. for most programs. Another issue that I want to point out is that they place students in some of the top NY internship sites. If you look at their list of placements over the past few years it always includes the top 4-5 hospitals in the NYC area. That's saying something considering their class-size is so small. I also want to point out here that they have a 100% internship placement rate (compared with the ~80% average for the NE).

Finally I want to say that no matter what, a degree from Columbia has its perks. It is and will always remain an Ivy League school. While that may mean different things to different people, you cannot deny that you will encounter at least some bosses/supervisors etc. who buy into the name. I'm not one for brand names but I definitely felt that in any professional situation that I found myself in after my masters, my degree definitely got my benefit-of-doubt at the very least.

For everyone who was not sure about TC I just wanted to post this counter-argument to the overwhelmingly negative analysis of what is really a very good and well-rounded program. I wonder how many of the people bashing the program are the same irritating constant-complainers from some of my masters classes...

Before anyone decides to write TC off, think about this- how bad can a program be if it has produced scholars like Carl Rogers, Albert Ellis, and Rollo May. I don't think there are too many programs out there can give you both an impressive name to put on your wall, a solid clinical and research training, and such an impressive list of alumni to join (for the complete list please check out their website).

I want to emphasize that I am not trying to sell the school- I think the competitiveness of the program shows that it is popular enough. I just wanted to try and provide some balance to this thread.

Good Luck to Everyone!