The 2 biggest secondary questions...

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Robizzle

Robizzle

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I think we've all seen these:

1) Anything more you want to say about yourself
2) Why do you want to go to ______, in particular?


For #1, should I take a more personal (other experiences not in my AMCAS, non-medical related stuff, academics, im a hard worker, etc. etc.) approach? I really don't know what else to write here!!

And how will you/ did you guys handle #2? I know a majority of us have never visited most of the schools, if any, that we are applying to. So what do you do... go to the school website and see "ooo they seem to focus on research... ooo that curriculum looks different... ooo its located in the city where all the action and murder is" stuff along those lines??

all i've really done is look up school stats and maybe seen a picture here and there.. it sucks that i've gotta come up with a song and dance for 80% of the schools!!!

any suggestions would be awesome :thumbup:
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haha... go with "since you have the highest crime rate in the country it seems like I will have plenty of chances to experience ER medicine, my passion" or something equivilant.
BUT REALLY, if ya wanna impress research schools, read some papers published by current adcoms (or just normal proffesors, adcoms are better though) and just drop some names and how your excited about the chance to work with em. A safe number is 3 names.
 
chewsnuffles said:
haha... go with "since you have the highest crime rate in the country it seems like I will have plenty of chances to experience ER medicine, my passion" or something equivilant.
BUT REALLY, if ya wanna impress research schools, read some papers published by current adcoms (or just normal proffesors, adcoms are better though) and just drop some names and how your excited about the chance to work with em. A safe number is 3 names.
Click to expand...

lovin your list of schools :thumbup:
 
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Robizzle said:
I think we've all seen these:

1) Anything more you want to say about yourself
2) Why do you want to go to ______, in particular?


For #1, should I take a more personal (other experiences not in my AMCAS, non-medical related stuff, academics, im a hard worker, etc. etc.) approach? I really don't know what else to write here!!

And how will you/ did you guys handle #2? I know a majority of us have never visited most of the schools, if any, that we are applying to. So what do you do... go to the school website and see "ooo they seem to focus on research... ooo that curriculum looks different... ooo its located in the city where all the action and murder is" stuff along those lines??

all i've really done is look up school stats and maybe seen a picture here and there.. it sucks that i've gotta come up with a song and dance for 80% of the schools!!!

any suggestions would be awesome :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Look at the school's viewbook, website, etc. Read the NEWS section (basically recent press releases) and see if there is anything that overlaps with your past research or volunteer work or your work experience or your family situation. E.g. if your granny has Alzheimer's disease and xy medical college has just announced a clinical trial being conducted by Dr. Abba, you can make a note of your particular interest in Dr. Abba's research (print a copy of the press release and put it in a file folder of stuff about that school, it will be handy to review when you get invited for an interview). Other things that you might mention are the school's location (particularly if you have ties to the region or are most interested in practicing in that region), the density of the region (if you are most interested in an inner-city, or rural location, in particular), the grading system (don't say you like pass/fail or no grading, particularly if you don't have a gpa >3.7 because it makes it seem like you don't want to work hard), the teaching methods, or the reputations of the affiliated teaching hospitals. This may require a couple of hours of research (you're going to love google) on the region, city, school, etc. Being passionate about a school is a big plus with respect to getting an interview because schools want to interivew applicants who, when faced with several offers, will choose THEM and not the other guy.
 
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Robizzle said:
And how will you/ did you guys handle #2? I know a majority of us have never visited most of the schools, if any, that we are applying to. So what do you do... go to the school website and see "ooo they seem to focus on research... ooo that curriculum looks different... ooo its located in the city where all the action and murder is" stuff along those lines??
Click to expand...

well, why did you apply to each of the schools? that answer is what you should write for that school. for every school i applied to there was at least one thing i could point to that led me to apply there...something about the curriculum or the hospital affiliations...the teaching philosophy...even the location. the question is pretty much intended to weed out the people who just apply everywhere hoping someone will bite because every school wants students that want to be at their school...not just a school.
 
Robizzle said:
I think we've all seen these:

1) Anything more you want to say about yourself
2) Why do you want to go to ______, in particular?


For #1, should I take a more personal (other experiences not in my AMCAS, non-medical related stuff, academics, im a hard worker, etc. etc.) approach? I really don't know what else to write here!!

And how will you/ did you guys handle #2? I know a majority of us have never visited most of the schools, if any, that we are applying to. So what do you do... go to the school website and see "ooo they seem to focus on research... ooo that curriculum looks different... ooo its located in the city where all the action and murder is" stuff along those lines??

all i've really done is look up school stats and maybe seen a picture here and there.. it sucks that i've gotta come up with a song and dance for 80% of the schools!!!

any suggestions would be awesome :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Does anybody have feedback on the OP's question #1? I've always struggled with the open-ended tell me about yourself kind of questions, so I'm curious too. How much should you reiterate important things on your AMCAS with a new spin or something? Or should it be all different? Should it be about what you've done? Who you are? Both?
 
thanks for all the help everyone!

to answer your question jbrice, i know about my instate schools, but since my application is weaker than the average applicant, i decided to apply to a bunch of out of state schools with stats similar to mine so i could "increase" my chances. i do feel bad that i was not able to just simply say ahh i like this school because of this and that.. i'm gonna apply. but instead had to base lots of my choices off stats. bottom line is that i DO want to go to all the med schools i will be applying to and i know googling up these schools will make me more n more interested :thumbup: . thanks again for all the help!
 
Robizzle said:
lovin your list of schools :thumbup:
Click to expand...
Formula = Take lowest stats schools + carpet bomb + pray x prepare really hard for the next application cycle
I would love a PBL approach to med school... sadly, I can't be picky after I got myself in this GPA mess. Oh ya, and I'm dropping names on my secondaries liks nobodies bussiness... one thing I learned from my research is that PhD's / research MD's love it when you talk about their genius papers...
 
Robizzle said:
thanks for all the help everyone!

to answer your question jbrice, i know about my instate schools, but since my application is weaker than the average applicant, i decided to apply to a bunch of out of state schools with stats similar to mine so i could "increase" my chances. i do feel bad that i was not able to just simply say ahh i like this school because of this and that.. i'm gonna apply. but instead had to base lots of my choices off stats. bottom line is that i DO want to go to all the med schools i will be applying to and i know googling up these schools will make me more n more interested :thumbup: . thanks again for all the help!
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that, to some extent, the 'why this school' question is analogous to a girl saying 'does this make me look fat.' A drawn out answer isn't necessary...just something positive that shows you care. So like some people mentioned, just pick up on something the school is proud of and tell them you like that. If it's a school that's big on their PBL curriculum, say that interests you. If they talk about how much they focus on compassionate patient care, tell them you're interested in getting involved with patients right away. The thing you pick doesn't necessarily have to be only about the one school...just something they offer. If you're interested in PBL, you'd apply to several schools that have PBL. They know that what you answer may not be something that only they offer, they just want to hear that you don't think they're fat... :laugh:
 
jbrice1639 said:
Keep in mind that, to some extent, the 'why this school' question is analogous to a girl saying 'does this make me look fat.' A drawn out answer isn't necessary...just something positive that shows you care. So like some people mentioned, just pick up on something the school is proud of and tell them you like that. If it's a school that's big on their PBL curriculum, say that interests you. If they talk about how much they focus on compassionate patient care, tell them you're interested in getting involved with patients right away. The thing you pick doesn't necessarily have to be only about the one school...just something they offer. If you're interested in PBL, you'd apply to several schools that have PBL. They know that what you answer may not be something that only they offer, they just want to hear that you don't think they're fat... :laugh:
Click to expand...


Adcoms are smarter than that.... don't just write some lame thing about PBL and call it a day -- everyone sees right through that. Really get to know the school and what is great about it. Then the essay will sound sincere and sincerity will get you everywhere in this process.

As for question #1, this is the point to add something beyond your P.S., something that makes you interesting, something that folks might not know about you. Some students use this to go into great detail about research that they've done or their fondness for the region where the school is located and their particular experiences at that school (e.g. having done a summer program there as a H.S. student). Some students will go on in depth about something interesting /formative that they have done (non-medical related -- wasn't in the P.S.). Some use this to describe a H.S. activity (being on a championship team, going abroad for a yr as a H.S. kid), others use it to describe their post-college activities (glide year in Ameri-Corps). What makes you "interesting"? If we were stuck in an elevator for 6 hours, what might we talk about?
 
for the #1 type questions, i'm going to talk about my research. i've been working as an RA full time for 2 yrs and counting and i didn't really focus on it in my PS (because i knew the secondaries were coming...)

i think it's better to expand rather than repeat. if you've done anything between graduating college and applying it's definitely the place to address what you've done.

but if you think you worked everything into the PS, it seems like it's okay to keep the response to a minimum (but that's just my reasoning here).
 
To these ends...
I'm curious if this spot on the secondary (...anything else you'd like to say about yourself) is an appropriate spot to discuss sub-par GPA? Just got the MCAT back and did pretty well so the only thing, I think, holding me back will be the GPA. Friends have told me not to focus too much on it in the primary (so I didn't) and that the secondary is a better place to discuss that. Thoughts?



Robizzle said:
I think we've all seen these:

1) Anything more you want to say about yourself
2) Why do you want to go to ______, in particular?


For #1, should I take a more personal (other experiences not in my AMCAS, non-medical related stuff, academics, im a hard worker, etc. etc.) approach? I really don't know what else to write here!!

And how will you/ did you guys handle #2? I know a majority of us have never visited most of the schools, if any, that we are applying to. So what do you do... go to the school website and see "ooo they seem to focus on research... ooo that curriculum looks different... ooo its located in the city where all the action and murder is" stuff along those lines??

all i've really done is look up school stats and maybe seen a picture here and there.. it sucks that i've gotta come up with a song and dance for 80% of the schools!!!

any suggestions would be awesome :thumbup:
Click to expand...
 
LizzyM said:
Adcoms are smarter than that.... don't just write some lame thing about PBL and call it a day -- everyone sees right through that. Really get to know the school and what is great about it. Then the essay will sound sincere and sincerity will get you everywhere in this process.
Click to expand...

i'm not necessarily saying anyone should be insincere. and i absolutely would not condone lying in any way. at the same time, i think you can write something very genuine about something as simple as pbl...especially if that's what the schools seems to champion most in their marketing materials. the point i was trying to make, and i believe is a valid one, is that the thing that really makes you love school A could also be the thing that really makes you love school B. i think you'll drive yourself crazy trying to find something completely unique about each school you applied to. again, i wouldn't contradict Lizzy's advice because she certainly knows more about admissions than I do, but I followed my advice and was pleased with the results. you're just looking for the one or two things that make you love the school...not necessarily the one thing that makes them different from every other school.
 
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Drop names, names, names. If you can read and understand certain papers and make intelligent comments on them = DOUBLE WHAMMY
if you find errors in their methods, now might not be the time to mention it... haha
OK, question, where do I address my poor academic performance, my primary currently has something like this:

"My GPA is definitely on the low side, but I urge you to not let that be your sole factor in assessing my character and maturity towards academics. I have had to struggle with juggling many activities at once throughout my undergraduate years, with college and semi pro soccer competing for much of my time, as well as other EC and leadership activities I have listed elsewhere. On top of that I have taken quite possibly the most demanding course work that is available at my school to help prepare me for what my future may hold. It has taken some time and sacrifice but I believe that I have finally found a way to manage my academics better and have cut out a lot of the sports time and replaced it with study time. I was spread thin as freshman and sophomore, plunging right into upper level science classes in very unrelated fields (advanced math to chemistry to genetics), and it has taken time, but my diverse science background is beginning to come together starting this semester. The results speak for themselves, I got a 4.0 in upper level biology and physiology classes while taking 1 extra class for the semester, independently preparing for the MCAT (34S), and conducting a research project in genetics with PhD students. I can handle school and my time in a mature, organized way and am confident I will have success in medical school in the near future."

too much? LizzyM or REL input appriciated, what would you think after reading this?
 
For #1, does it have to be academically, or club related? I mean, could I for example talk about my love for fantasy in stuff like books, puzzles, cartoons, and how that has left me to still feel like a kid?
 
chewsnuffles said:
Drop names, names, names. If you can read and understand certain papers and make intelligent comments on them = DOUBLE WHAMMY
if you find errors in their methods, now might not be the time to mention it... haha
OK, question, where do I address my poor academic performance, my primary currently has something like this:

"My GPA is definitely on the low side, but I urge you to not let that be your sole factor in assessing my character and maturity towards academics. I have had to struggle with juggling many activities at once throughout my undergraduate years, with college and semi pro soccer competing for much of my time, as well as other EC and leadership activities I have listed elsewhere. On top of that I have taken quite possibly the most demanding course work that is available at my school to help prepare me for what my future may hold. It has taken some time and sacrifice but I believe that I have finally found a way to manage my academics better and have cut out a lot of the sports time and replaced it with study time. I was spread thin as freshman and sophomore, plunging right into upper level science classes in very unrelated fields (advanced math to chemistry to genetics), and it has taken time, but my diverse science background is beginning to come together starting this semester. The results speak for themselves, I got a 4.0 in upper level biology and physiology classes while taking 1 extra class for the semester, independently preparing for the MCAT (34S), and conducting a research project in genetics with PhD students. I can handle school and my time in a mature, organized way and am confident I will have success in medical school in the near future."

too much? LizzyM or REL input appriciated, what would you think after reading this?
Click to expand...

is this in your PS? it seems to me that you're wasting a lot of the very few characters you have to sell yourself on repeating things the adcom will see in other areas of the app (your recent grades, mcat, research, "other ECs listed elsewhere," etc). instead of the "results speak for themselves" sentence, you might want to say something about how you feel like you've really learned the process of learning, how to study...and segue to your last sentence. save more space for why you want to go to med school to begin with.

also, i wouldn't address the adcom in your PS ("urge you"). and this is a tiny thing, but the last sentence could rub someone in the wrong way, like you're assuming you'll get in. i'd say something like "am confident i am capable of success..."

just my 2 cents. good luck.
 
Thanks, good points. I'll cut it in half and just say that I learned some things and that I have an upward trend.
 
chewsnuffles said:
Thanks, good points. I'll cut it in half and just say that I learned some things and that I have an upward trend.
Click to expand...


chewsnuffles you'll be proud to hear that i dropped some names in my downstate 2ndary. and let me say.. i was actually sincere about it, too! there's a doctor there doin muscular research which is wht i'm interested in. crazy how things fall into place.
 
This might be an obvious question, but how do you determine if somebody is an ADCOM or not?
 
oh yeah, I definately said that about adcoms having no idea how one would find out about this... I imagine if you do have some good ties to a school and know a few doctors here and there ya can find out. Perhaps you can "troll" the school and send out some e-mails from a random address, pretending to be a doctor and asking to be on the admissions comitee and ask who the head is so you can best direct your questions to him. OK, this is starting to get larcenous, so I'll just stop here, but, bottom line, with determination I'm sure there is a way.
 
I have no idea how to find out who is on the admissions committee. It is not information that faculty members "advertise".

As for dropping names, please be sure to keep a copy of your supplemental essay and a copy of the "named facutly member" in a file dedicated to that school's application. Review it the night before your interview. Nothing will sink you faster than having the interviewer say, "I see that you are familiar with Dr. Doodah's work" and have you sitting there drawing a complete blank.
 
BuckerPark said:
To these ends...
I'm curious if this spot on the secondary (...anything else you'd like to say about yourself) is an appropriate spot to discuss sub-par GPA? Just got the MCAT back and did pretty well so the only thing, I think, holding me back will be the GPA. Friends have told me not to focus too much on it in the primary (so I didn't) and that the secondary is a better place to discuss that. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I'd say it depends on what your reason for the sub-par GPA is. If it's something like "I love to party and get wasted every thursday, friday, and saturday nights, which really tends to get in the way of my studying, but hey, it's college, we're supposed to be here to have fun!" ;) Not that that was anywhere near what you were thinking or anytihng, but you get the drift. If you have a legitimate reason that you think will help your case, though, go for it. I brought up a long-term illness and having surgery my freshman year in my personal statement, because my grades were naturally lower that semester... and I think having done so makes it look a lot more excusable...
 
Honesty is always the best policy. Really, why do you want to attend this particular medical school? That question is a fair one to ask. A medical school interviewer doesn't want just anyone coming in. They are going to be just as selective as you are.

I would definitely do research on each school you are applying to, and do not do this haphazardly either. If you know alot of the history of each institution, you will feel very comfortable answering the question even if you have never visited their campus.

Plus be prepared to ask your own questions too....they will target the people that have done their homework and has shown a true interest in attending their school. I would much rather have too many invites than none at all. Plus they are going to look at your level of maturity also. Remember, you are applying to the job of your life. Keep that in mind and everything else falls into place.

Better yet, visualize yourself in the place of the interviewer. Would you let someone who wasn't quite sure in your institution? I wouldn't.
 
I'm not looking to make 'excuses.' The bottom line is, I have a less than ideal GPA because, during undergrad, I lacked focus. I was hoping to take the approach of recognizing this flaw that I once had and talking about how 4 years of 'real-world' experience has kinda whipped me into shape (as evident latest MCAT and burgeoning post-bac GPA). I did not use the personal statement to discuss this aspect of my application and, instead, focused on my motivation and fitness for a career in medicine. So...again, is this an appropriate thing to do with secondaries? This is what I envision happening as an adcom looks at my app:

MCAT, super
GPA, hmm.....
Since I'm not going to be over his/her shoulder to say 'yea, BUT...' I figured the secondary would be a good spot to fill in the blank.

So?



thegymbum said:
I'd say it depends on what your reason for the sub-par GPA is. If it's something like "I love to party and get wasted every thursday, friday, and saturday nights, which really tends to get in the way of my studying, but hey, it's college, we're supposed to be here to have fun!" ;) Not that that was anywhere near what you were thinking or anytihng, but you get the drift. If you have a legitimate reason that you think will help your case, though, go for it. I brought up a long-term illness and having surgery my freshman year in my personal statement, because my grades were naturally lower that semester... and I think having done so makes it look a lot more excusable...
Click to expand...
 
BuckerPark said:
I'm not looking to make 'excuses.' The bottom line is, I have a less than ideal GPA because, during undergrad, I lacked focus. I was hoping to take the approach of recognizing this flaw that I once had and talking about how 4 years of 'real-world' experience has kinda whipped me into shape (as evident latest MCAT and burgeoning post-bac GPA). I did not use the personal statement to discuss this aspect of my application and, instead, focused on my motivation and fitness for a career in medicine. So...again, is this an appropriate thing to do with secondaries? This is what I envision happening as an adcom looks at my app:

MCAT, super
GPA, hmm.....
Since I'm not going to be over his/her shoulder to say 'yea, BUT...' I figured the secondary would be a good spot to fill in the blank.

So?
Click to expand...

Probably secondary with a quick mention of upward improvement in your primary. No more than 2 sentences. Primary - focus on current clinical work and how motivation came from that and seeing where you could be with enough hard work. I think its an angle not to many people have and could work for ya, especially with the mcat score and good post-bac progress
 
chewsnuffles said:
haha... go with "since you have the highest crime rate in the country it seems like I will have plenty of chances to experience ER medicine, my passion" or something equivilant.
BUT REALLY, if ya wanna impress research schools, read some papers published by current adcoms (or just normal proffesors, adcoms are better though) and just drop some names and how your excited about the chance to work with em. A safe number is 3 names.
Click to expand...

how can you find out who exactly are the adcoms, other than the dean...?
 
this may have been answered, but I don't think its very easy to/possible, although I'd lik to hear more. Perhaps the dropping names may work better with applying to PhD programs. However, it doesn't hurt I feel, and at a couple of schools if I'm genuinely interested I will drop names like no ones bussiness, but make sure your REALLY interested and can talk about it, so you don't get fried if they grill ya on it in the interview.
 
For #1, do you think it would be a good idea to explain a bad year in college? Maybe even play the "what-if" game with your GPA...I would have such and such a GPA if my year had not gone the way it did because of illness (for example).
 
on U Chic. they have the optional "anything else you would like to say" question. most of my stuff is covered in my PS and those 3 essays ( :thumbdown: ). the only thing i really don't talk about anywhere is my summer job. been doing it for 3 years now. i'm not really passionate about it (seeing as how i just cruise SDN all day :D ) and don't know if i could actually put what i do into words. so...should i attempt to write about my job(its at a bio lab working with safety and compliance) OR write something unique about myself that may be a bit humorous OR just leave it blank? opinions would be much appreciated. thanks guys :)
 
Do we all need to respond to the question, "Is there anything else about yourself that you would like to add," or is that just if you have something wierd in your file that you want to explain? I assumed it was the latter, but this thread has me thinking that the question is pretty much mandatory.
 
i'm not adding anything.. the other questions were so thorough and so was my personal statement.. i only can have answers if they ask me something else specific... so yeah unless i really have something to add im leaving it blank.. they can get a really good idea of who i am with everything else..i dont want to just bs and waste their time...
 
Related question about question #1 ("Anything more you want to say about yourself?"): If it is open ended and does not have a word or character constraint, how long are adcom's looking for?

Most of them have limits, but I've seen them vary from 300 to 2000 characters.
 
major bump here...

How are you guys dealing with Question # 2, in the '10 application cycle
I remember a while back on SDN, someone posted a template essay to be used, replacing _____ with school name lol
 
johncalvin said:
major bump here...

How are you guys dealing with Question # 2, in the '10 application cycle
I remember a while back on SDN, someone posted a template essay to be used, replacing _____ with school name lol
Click to expand...

I think that is subideal. lol. but i am still fairly early on in my secondary process (i only have 4 submitted), so it might resort to that. :laugh:

no, in all honesty.. it will sound pretty generic if you do that and i'm sure most people will see that. at least add in some specific details about the schools. i must admit, i was surprised with some of the things i found out when perusing their websites and doing googles searches. it's worthwhile, albeit tedious.
 
johncalvin said:
major bump here...

How are you guys dealing with Question # 2, in the '10 application cycle
I remember a while back on SDN, someone posted a template essay to be used, replacing _____ with school name lol
Click to expand...

99% sure that's going to be transparent to adcoms.
 
Ok, here's my deal with question #2. I know that most people's essays will all sound generic, no matter what, because everyone who applies to that school will go to the website, look up some obvious stuff and then talk about how each school has a great atmosphere for learning, a terrific and supportive faculty, world class facilites, excellent oppertunities for research, drop names of researchers, papers published from that school ect.

So to be somewhat unique I used this essay to explain more about myself, my deeply held personal philisophies that drove me into choosing military medicine (which was not in my PS)and how their school shares my ideals and would serve as a spring board for a dedicated military doctor who could help make the world a better place.

I know its risky because technically it dosn't answer their question, other than by saying that I am an idealist and they share my ideals. But I am at least hoping that adcoms will appreciate the uniqeness of the essay.

Is it a form letter? Sure, and will adcoms see that, probably, but then again aren't all of these essays form letters?
 
i think most people make the mistake of just talking about how great the school is. you have advertise yourself as well. that is all i'm going to say lol.
 
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