Underrepresented Minorities Get in Easier: UNFAIR

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NervousNed

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All,

I would like to hear your opinion on this, why is it that "minorities" such as spanish and blacks get a bonus added to their application, yet minorities such as asians/east indians do not? This to me seems blatantly unfair. If anything, preference should be given to those with economic circumstances, but it seems that it is not fair to base it on race. It is inconsistent to let only certain minorities in, what makes latino or blacks gain preference over asians or east indians???

The case everyone says is oh, they are underrepresented in the field, so what? Do you think that because in sports asians/east indians are underrepresented, that they should be allowed into playing sports just because there are few of them? This would never be allowed in the sports world, which are jobs of a very comptetitive nature, why is it allowed in the academic world, where becoming a doctor is equally comptetitive?

Personally i hope in my time, preference for minorities is overturned, and preference will solely be based on economic status and upbringing.
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Wow! This has never ever been mentioned before on SDN! I can't believe someone hasn't argued about this yet! :rolleyes:
 
life is unfair...if you didn't get into a single school at all, you can't go and blame other racial groups for your problem. med school admissions is mostly merit based so quit crying and start studying and shadowing.
 
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NervousNed said:
All,

I would like to hear your opinion on this, why is it that "minorities" such as spanish and blacks get a bonus added to their application, yet minorities such as asians/east indians do not? This to me seems blatantly unfair. If anything, preference should be given to those with economic circumstances, but it seems that it is not fair to base it on race. It is inconsistent to let only certain minorities in, what makes latino or blacks gain preference over asians or east indians???

The case everyone says is oh, they are underrepresented in the field, so what? Do you think that because in sports asians/east indians are underrepresented, that they should be allowed into playing sports just because there are few of them? This would never be allowed in the sports world, which are jobs of a very comptetitive nature, why is it allowed in the academic world, where becoming a doctor is equally comptetitive?

Personally i hope in my time, preference for minorities is overturned, and preference will solely be based on economic status and upbringing.
Click to expand...

OMG! I never knew that. :eek:
 
what qualifies as an underrepresented minority?
Im North African do I count? lol
 
NervousNed said:
All,

I would like to hear your opinion on this, why is it that "minorities" such as spanish and blacks get a bonus added to their application, yet minorities such as asians/east indians do not? This to me seems blatantly unfair. If anything, preference should be given to those with economic circumstances, but it seems that it is not fair to base it on race. It is inconsistent to let only certain minorities in, what makes latino or blacks gain preference over asians or east indians???

The case everyone says is oh, they are underrepresented in the field, so what? Do you think that because in sports asians/east indians are underrepresented, that they should be allowed into playing sports just because there are few of them? This would never be allowed in the sports world, which are jobs of a very comptetitive nature, why is it allowed in the academic world, where becoming a doctor is equally comptetitive?

Personally i hope in my time, preference for minorities is overturned, and preference will solely be based on economic status and upbringing.
Click to expand...

No te quejes tanto y concentrante en tu aplicacion. ;)
 
Thank God I am Black, and from the Carribean! :D
 
that sucks admission shouldnt be based on your skin color.
Im not black, but African haha can I be considered a minority?
 
NervousNed said:
All,

I would like to hear your opinion on this, why is it that "minorities" such as spanish and blacks get a bonus added to their application, yet minorities such as asians/east indians do not? This to me seems blatantly unfair. If anything, preference should be given to those with economic circumstances, but it seems that it is not fair to base it on race. It is inconsistent to let only certain minorities in, what makes latino or blacks gain preference over asians or east indians???

The case everyone says is oh, they are underrepresented in the field, so what? Do you think that because in sports asians/east indians are underrepresented, that they should be allowed into playing sports just because there are few of them? This would never be allowed in the sports world, which are jobs of a very comptetitive nature, why is it allowed in the academic world, where becoming a doctor is equally comptetitive?

Personally i hope in my time, preference for minorities is overturned, and preference will solely be based on economic status and upbringing.
Click to expand...

While I don't wish to feed the nonsense, you are mistaken if you don't believe that sports don't seek out minorities...

Sports are driven by financial interest. That being said, sports teams with "face time" (most except football because they wear helmets), try to add diversity as a way to increase their fan base.

Why do you think the Yankees signed Hideki Matsui? Sure, he's good, but there are a lot of latinos or blacks who are better.

Why did the rockets sign Yao Ming? Sure he's 7'4" but he's made the Rockets an INTERNATIONAL team.

Why are there white guys in the NBA at all? It would be pretty safe to say that a lot of them could and should be replaced with a black player. BUT there are more white NBA fans than anything else and almost ALL of those who buy tickets are white.

Basically, this is to say that organizations seek to serve and expand their base. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that's just the way it is.

And let's be serious. I've been to four medical schools and I asked how many african americans were in the first year class. The average was 3. Get over it...
 
quantummechanic said:
life is unfair...if you didn't get into a single school at all, you can't go and blame other racial groups for your problem. med school admissions is mostly merit based so quit crying and start studying and shadowing.
Click to expand...

Your whole qoute about blaming other racial groups for not getting admitted is nonsense, i will have no problem getting into a medical school. I'm very happy with all my stats, and don't need to study or do anymore shadowing. Neither am i ancy about getting into medical schools, you know nothing about me. You did nothing to answer the question, about the reasoning of the policy. Good job.
 
Jasmine26 said:
that sucks admission shouldnt be based on your skin color.
Im not black, but African haha can I be considered a minority?
Click to expand...

You are not considered an underrepresented minority in medicine unless you are African American, Mexican American, Native American or mainland PuertoRican. Don't know if I left another group out.
 
NervousNed said:
All,

I would like to hear your opinion on this, why is it that "minorities" such as spanish and blacks get a bonus added to their application, yet minorities such as asians/east indians do not? This to me seems blatantly unfair. If anything, preference should be given to those with economic circumstances, but it seems that it is not fair to base it on race. It is inconsistent to let only certain minorities in, what makes latino or blacks gain preference over asians or east indians???

The case everyone says is oh, they are underrepresented in the field, so what? Do you think that because in sports asians/east indians are underrepresented, that they should be allowed into playing sports just because there are few of them? This would never be allowed in the sports world, which are jobs of a very comptetitive nature, why is it allowed in the academic world, where becoming a doctor is equally comptetitive?

Personally i hope in my time, preference for minorities is overturned, and preference will solely be based on economic status and upbringing.
Click to expand...


Since everyone else is flamming you, I will humor you with a response. Over-represented groups in society have an advantage over under-represented groups. It's called tyranny of the majority. You need only look to Congress to understand that this is an inevitability in a Democratic society. Is it fair? No. It's just part of the system, and since people can't change the essence of democracy, they must work around it.

AA isn't "fair" in many aspects of its nature, but the majority has declared it to be necessary. If you live here, you must also learn to live with the rules. No sense in whining when you could be working harder to overcome that hurdle. It'll give you a greater sense of accomplishment knowing that you didn't get in to serve the purpose of a statistic booster.
 
BucsFan813 said:
And let's be serious. I've been to four medical schools and I asked how many african americans were in the first year class. The average was 3. Get over it...
Click to expand...

Let him complain... it's much easier for him to blame his problems on URMs than accept the fact that he is being passed over in a fair process.
 
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Wait, you mean to tell me minorities get preferential treatment? And that a minority can get in with stats much much below the average cutoff for non-URMs? I was not aware of this at all!

Not fair in many regards, but the desire behind the practice is sound. The method of implementation is severely flawed, however. Lets see how many pages this one can go for.
 
NervousNed said:
Your whole qoute about blaming other racial groups for not getting admitted is nonsense, i will have no problem getting into a medical school. I'm very happy with all my stats, and don't need to study or do anymore shadowing. Neither am i ancy about getting into medical schools, you know nothing about me. You did nothing to answer the question, about the reasoning of the policy. Good job.
Click to expand...

You should first search other sources to find the reasoning of the policy before asking students who did not set forth such policy. Anyhow peace out.
 
NervousNed said:
Your whole qoute about blaming other racial groups for not getting admitted is nonsense, i will have no problem getting into a medical school. I'm very happy with all my stats, and don't need to study or do anymore shadowing. Neither am i ancy about getting into medical schools, you know nothing about me. You did nothing to answer the question, about the reasoning of the policy. Good job.
Click to expand...

then why are you complaining? I'm not, and I got into a med school, a great one at that, all the while I'm a white male.:rolleyes:

maybe you could also address why there is such a large underserved population. what are you going to do about the 46 million uninsured people in this country? with today's flight of hospitals from inner cities to the suburbs, things are only going to continue to get worse unfortunately. We need doctors willing to work towards fixing such problems, rather than bitching about marginal issues such as this one.
 
NervousNed said:
why is it that "minorities" such as spanish and blacks get a bonus added to their application,
Click to expand...
Tell me about it! Every rejection I've gotten, I've shaken my fist at the sky and said, "Those damn SPANIARDS!!!"
 
Whoaaa maybe i read that wrong, but i think all he was trying to say is your race does not say anything about your socio-economical statis. if prefereance is given to URM it is because there is an assumption that they do not have all the resources that you and i may have; but resources are assoicated with race they are with an economical income level so why not define URM by those means. If that is what you mean i agree, sorry for the bashing your getting.
 
Depakote said:
Let him complain... it's much easier for him to blame his problems on URMs than accept the fact that he is being passed over in a fair process.
Click to expand...

Once again, you are assuming that i have poor stats, am worried about getting in medical school, and posted it because of that...which is wrong, my stats are great, you don't have to be a bad student to consider fairness in applications... Did you ever stop to think, that you can be smart, and still consider the policy unfair?

Many of you have decided that, things are the way they are, just accept them. In order to question the policy, as seen in this thread, people make you out to either be racist, or a student who didnt get into medical school. Which is wrong as well.

If everyone went just by what you said, 'thats just the way things are' then there would still be slavery in this country. The subject is very touchy. It is not racist, to want everyone to apply equally. There are plenty of well qualified candidates from all races, so why even place preference to any race unless there are economic reasons?
 
NervousNed, allow me to clarify my stance. I disagree wholeheartedly with the modern implementation of AA, but I do agree that there should be some form of getting minorities into medicine. Perhaps if the intention is to get people to serve underpriviledged communities, make them sign a contract to do so for X amount of time. If it is because X minority wants to see X minority doctor, thats fine and dandy but it is introducing less qualified future physicians into the field (assuming they are allowed acceptance due to lower statistic standards applied toward minorities). If it because they have come from an underpriviledged background and that is why they are given preference, verify this and do not say it is the reason while admitting the upper middle class URM kid because his URM status makes him statistically more likely to have faced hardships.

Its a flawed system, but there are fine reasons for it being in place. Eventually they will think of a better way to go about the process, but the process is important to keep in place I feel, despite its flaws. AA is important, but there is a problem when it is costing more qualified individuals acceptance I believe.

And nobody thinks those that disagree with AA are racist unless they are dumbarses who just want to call out racism to get attention. Why we make jokes about threads like this is because there have been at least ten thousand threads started on the matter, each of which resulted in the exact same confclusion, none.
 
nycbeatz said:
if prefereance is given to URM it is because there is an assumption that they do not have all the resources that you and i may have; but resources are assoicated with race they are with an economical income level so why not define URM by those means.
Click to expand...

SES is not the entire impetus behind Affirmative Action...it would be completely blind if that was the only reason for it
 
no no no NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

Ned, there are plenty of threads out there on this subject, and you can read all about it and chances are there's not even any need for you to post what you think, since probably your view point has been posted 10 times by others on this forum.

Please we went SO long without an AA thread mucking up the board. It's time for interviews and acceptances, please don't gripe about things that won't change your life drastically. AA threads don't do anything except start fights between members. DONT DO IT! LET THIS THREAD DIE IN PEACE!
 
Most of the questions about low service to African Americans, Native Americans and Hispanics are issues of poverty and not of race. In fact, Hispanics tend toi be healthier than all other races overall in the United States. So stating that we need preferential admission policies towards hispanics is a based on a lie. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9472-2004Dec17?language=printer

Its mostly a political cop out. If Hispanics, African-Americans and Native Americans truly believe that those underrepresented in medicine need help in the admissions policy they should also be advocating the inclusion of other underrepresented groups, such as the LGBT community.

The most effective way to end this disparity in wealth, education and health isn't to give preference to those in higher level education. Instead, the scholarships, funding and recruitment would be far better used in lower level education, i.e. elementary school.
 
nycbeatz said:
Whoaaa maybe i read that wrong, but i think all he was trying to say is your race does not say anything about your socio-economical statis. if prefereance is given to URM it is because there is an assumption that they do not have all the resources that you and i may have; but resources are assoicated with race they are with an economical income level so why not define URM by those means. If that is what you mean i agree, sorry for the bashing your getting.
Click to expand...

preferential treatment in the medical school admissions process? Yeah, I know that Tiger does not have a son (or daughter yet) but presumably Tiger and his hot Swedish model wife will figure out how to procreate at some point. Now, Tiger makes about $100 million per year with endorsements and lives on a multimillion dollar estate in Florida and I am sure that his kids will attend the best private schools and then go to Stanford like Tiger - So does Tiger's kid get into Harvard Medical School with a 28 MCAT and a 3.4 GPA because the kid is technically URM? Shouldn't socio-economic background, overcoming hardships, prevailing under difficult circumstances be part of the equation and the conversation. It isn't too tough growing up when your father knocks down 100 million per year and you are raised in luxury with virtually every advantage from money, to education, to contacts. So why should Michael Jordan's kid and Tiger's kid be given a competitive advantage over my kid. Again, I think that the social-economic background of the applicant needs to be factored into the equation rather than simply making it a racial issue. I support affirmative action but I think these admissions decisions need to be based on more than simply a racial criteria.

Searun

Searun
 
<sobbing>

oh God... I hope christian43284932 or whatever doesn't see this. And also KapilMD. God help us all... please if people stop posting I will personally post in every other thread to bury this onto the second page.

whisper all of you! whisper don't let the bandwagon fanatics kno this is going on!
 
searun said:
preferential treatment in the medical school admissions process? Yeah, I know that Tiger does not have a son (or daughter yet) but presumably Tiger and his hot Swedish model wife will figure out how to procreate at some point. Now, Tiger makes about $100 million per year with endorsements and lives on a multimillion dollar estate in Florida and I am sure that his kids will attend the best private schools and then go to Stanford like Tiger - So does Tiger's kid get into Harvard Medical School with a 28 MCAT and a 3.4 GPA because the kid is technically URM? Shouldn't socio-economic background, overcoming hardships, prevailing under difficult circumstances be part of the equation and the conversation. It isn't too tough growing up when your father knocks down 100 million per year and you are raised in luxury with virtually every advantage from money, to education, to contacts. So why should Michael Jordan's kid and Tiger's kid be given a competitive advantage over my kid. Again, I think that the social-economic background of the applicant needs to be factored into the equation rather than simply making it a racial issue. I support affirmative action but I think these admissions decisions need to be based on more than simply a racial criteria.

Searun

Searun
Click to expand...


Please tell me you are not this dense. <sigh> It is somewhat frightening to think that an underdeveloped mind like this could be entering the field of medicine.:eek:

How stupid you are to think that medical schools are robotic entities who scroll through applications like a Scantron(R) machine, searching for a specific race. Once said race is equal to a defined variable (African America, Native American, etc.) then grant admission to said applicant.

If your infantile logic were nearly half as solid as your apparent knowledge of male sports figures, you could simply infer from the admissions statistics that more URMs get denied admissions than are admitted.

Go back to watching ESPN. Your IQ is much more aligned with that audience.
 
Sanctuary said:
Please tell me you are not this dense. <sigh> It is somewhat frightening to think that an underdeveloped mind like this could be entering the field of medicine.:eek:

How stupid you are to think that medical schools are robotic entities who scroll through applications like a Scantron(R) machine, searching for a specific race. Once said race is equal to a defined variable (African America, Native American, etc.) then grant admission to said applicant.

If your infantile logic were nearly half as solid as your apparent knowledge of male sports figures, you could simply infer from the admissions statistics that more URMs get denied admissions than are admitted.

Go back to watching ESPN. Your IQ is much more aligned with that audience.
Click to expand...


I thought African Americans had a 60% acceptance rate whereas Whites had a 50% and Asians had a 43%, I think this is from the AAMC?
 
BucsFan813 said:
No se porque el esta tan enojado. Estaria asustado si este racista sera un medico.
Click to expand...

He asi eh, este OP nadama's esta enojado porque el qrue que nosotro's somo meno's inteligente y con eso porque somo's Hispano no's acceptan a la escuela de Medicina mas facil!! yo no eh oido mas basura en mi vida lol!!!... Este OP es increiblemente ignorante!!!:D :D
 
Sanctuary said:
Go back to watching ESPN. Your IQ is much more aligned with that audience.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry what? ESPN = rtards?!?!? I'm going to quote something now that really, really relates to you, and I think you should really take the message into consideration:

Sanctuary said:
Please tell me you are not this dense. <sigh> It is somewhat frightening to think that an underdeveloped mind like this could be entering the field of medicine.
Click to expand...
 
colbgw02 said:
i've seen this movie before; i know how it ends.

mods, please lock this thread.
Click to expand...

That's what I keep saying!!! This is a train wreck waiting to happen... it's tragic and horrible, but hard not to watch.
 
searun said:
preferential treatment in the medical school admissions process? Yeah, I know that Tiger does not have a son (or daughter yet) but presumably Tiger and his hot Swedish model wife will figure out how to procreate at some point. Now, Tiger makes about $100 million per year with endorsements and lives on a multimillion dollar estate in Florida and I am sure that his kids will attend the best private schools and then go to Stanford like Tiger - So does Tiger's kid get into Harvard Medical School with a 28 MCAT and a 3.4 GPA because the kid is technically URM? Shouldn't socio-economic background, overcoming hardships, prevailing under difficult circumstances be part of the equation and the conversation. It isn't too tough growing up when your father knocks down 100 million per year and you are raised in luxury with virtually every advantage from money, to education, to contacts. So why should Michael Jordan's kid and Tiger's kid be given a competitive advantage over my kid. Again, I think that the social-economic background of the applicant needs to be factored into the equation rather than simply making it a racial issue. I support affirmative action but I think these admissions decisions need to be based on more than simply a racial criteria.

Searun

Searun
Click to expand...


Are you for real? :laugh: Tiger Wood's and Michael Jordan's kids can get into any professional program at any school they desire to and not because they are URMs technically or not, Why? Because they are Tiger Wood's and Michael Jordan's kids!!! and double goes for Oprah! and although I agree with eternal that this thread is a pure waste of time and should have an immediate death, I would like to state once more for the record that AA is not a race thing it is a minority thing---meaning if you are in a minority demographic group amongst the majority AA is applicable to you and yes AA does have flaws but so does welfare programs, social security programs and clothes from TJ MAXX yet no one seems to start unnecessary threads on those topics....well that's my .02....have fun:D
 
I think we've been over this. Affirmative action is not fair. It's not meant to be unfair. It's meant to increase the percentage of URM doctors out there. And yes that means certain other minorities (namely Asian) with the same qualifications won't be chosen for med school. Again, it's not meant to be fair.
 
eternalrage said:
no no no NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

Ned, there are plenty of threads out there on this subject, and you can read all about it and chances are there's not even any need for you to post what you think, since probably your view point has been posted 10 times by others on this forum.

QUOTE]

:laugh:
Click to expand...
 
So if my friend is Jamaican and always reminds me that she is in fact not "African American" what would she put down when applying to medical school? Are only African Americans considered URMs or are the other black ethnicities considered an URM also?
 
Dead horse says "please, please stop beating me..."
 
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Vvandenn said:
So if my friend is Jamaican and always reminds me that she is in fact not "African American" what would she put down when applying to medical school? Are only African Americans considered URMs or are the other black ethnicities considered an URM also?
Click to expand...

That's interesting... Because although you see a lot of black faces in medical school, I would venture to say that at least a third are african and were considered international students and not URMs...

Either way, without URMs who would teach all the students the "electric slide" or the "macarena".

This whole debate is silly. If everything was based on merit, then someone would say, why are students from small liberal arts colleges given preference over those from large universities.
 
to the OP.

if you search for a thread like this on SDN....you'll see a LOT has been discussed on this.

Its akin to typing in "big titties" on google.
 
Jasmine26 said:
what qualifies as an underrepresented minority?
Im North African do I count? lol
Click to expand...

Oh, you'd count. The system supposedly adjusts for disadvantaged backgrounds, but it's so flawed because people twist it any way they can to get an edge. I know so many people who identified themselves as Native American on college and med applications, just because back in the 1700s they have some Cherokee ancestor. (Reminds me of a Supreme Court case a few years after Plessy v. Ferguson in 1896 that said that a person was legally black if they had at least 1/32nd African blood or something insane like that).

Everyone knows AA is profoundly messed up and needs serious overhaul, but no one is willing to go beyond complaining and actually fix things. Unless you're going to spearhead a movement to tear down the current AA methodology and start afresh, just suck it up, work hard, and accept responsibility for your own successes and failures.
 
flamethrowingsmiley.gif
 
The point of giving URMs some advantage in this process is down the line to provide more care to the most people.

The goal of medicine should be about taking care of people, not about rewarding those with the best grades. There is a much higher likelyhood of a black person going to serve an "underserved" black community than there is of a white person doing it.

So in giving URMs a slight advantage you allow for more people to receive care, and that is the point of all this.
 
are students from small liberal arts colleges given preference over those from large universities.[/QUOTE]


Is this true?
 
LAAAAADIES AAAAAND GENTLEMEN!

Welcome to the 2006 SDN Dead Horse Beating Awards! Tonight's recipient is a member of our preallopathic forums and has a real knack for starting a FLAME WAR! Please welcome your 2006 MR. DEAD HORSE BEATER OF THE YEAR, NERRRRRRRRRRRRRVOUS NED! COME ON DOWN!

dedhorse.gif


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
 
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