Don't really wanna do research

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InternationlDoc

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Ok. So Sdn has helped me tune my study techniques. and so far, all A's last midterms.

So assuming i continue that and do fairly ok on USMLE (230 ish) do you gurus think I need to go into research and work hard to get a publication out? I am not interested in derm, but am in radiology and Cardiology (via Internal Med?)

What do yall think? opinions much appreciated!
 
Research is always helpful. For radiology, I'd really recommend doing it-atleast a little-since it's so competitive. For internal, it would be good if you want to match in a top program, but I don't think you need to do it to match.
 
Nothing bad can come of it, but I'd wait until third year to start worrying about it. Even if you aren't interested in academics, I think that doing some research might help you decide on what you are really interested in. Plus getting that research experience will help you with LOR's.
 
InternationlDoc said:
Ok. So Sdn has helped me tune my study techniques. and so far, all A's last midterms.

So assuming i continue that and do fairly ok on USMLE (230 ish) do you gurus think I need to go into research and work hard to get a publication out? I am not interested in derm, but am in radiology and Cardiology (via Internal Med?)

What do yall think? opinions much appreciated!
Click to expand...

My advice: Do not do research if you are not into it. If during your rads/cards rotation you find an area that is of interest then go for it. Just sucking it up and doing a research project even though you hate it isn't going to lead to anything that will substantially boost your application. It's like trying to get into med school by thinking you should spend one Sunday in a soup kitchen. It looks cheap. Shining on your rads or cards electives and working hard to get great letters is going to carry you along more efficiently in the application process.
 
G0S2 said:
My advice: Do not do research if you are not into it. If during your rads/cards rotation you find an area that is of interest then go for it. Just sucking it up and doing a research project even though you hate it isn't going to lead to anything that will substantially boost your application. It's like trying to get into med school by thinking you should spend one Sunday in a soup kitchen. It looks cheap. Shining on your rads or cards electives and working hard to get great letters is going to carry you along more efficiently in the application process.
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Yeah what he said--much better than my previous post.
 
Research all depends on the mentor you have. Get a great one and it is a fantastic experience. Get a bad one and you will want to chew off your own leg to get out. Take care and choose a good mentor and project. It is worthwhile. It is also a good networking move if you want to stay at your home program.
 
When exactly are medical students doing all this research? It sounds like I'll be studying non stop first two years, and be run dog-tired the last two. Is all I have the summer between MS1 & MS2?
 
AggieJohn said:
When exactly are medical students doing all this research? It sounds like I'll be studying non stop first two years, and be run dog-tired the last two. Is all I have the summer between MS1 & MS2?
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Most schools let you have the first summer off, and that's when most students do their research. I'm looking at doing a bit more than that (my school's got a research distinction program) so I'd probably take a research elective during my last 2 years (probably after the USMLE or after I interview) to finish and write up any experiments I have left over.

Like other people have posted, research will help you:

1) get those LORs, because you'll be working a lot with your PI, so they'll be able to write a good knowledgeable letter about you,
2) get a long-term experience in the field you conduct (as opposed to a 2-week rotation during MS3 or MS4)
3) looks good for those academic residencies and competitive specialities,
4) most importantly, it teaches you something about conducting research, which is an iterative process, and it takes 3-4 times to start being able to do it well.
 
I've done research in undergrad, and it's usually pretty dang boring (for me). I'd rather go to Europe for a few weeks and work for my dad next summer. I'm not entirely decided against doing it, but the deadline is coming up soon. I'd feel like the guy rolling his eyes in the back of the soup kitchen, I guess. 😳
 
TheProwler said:
I've done research in undergrad, and it's usually pretty dang boring (for me). =
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I did research in undergrad, and worked as a research tech after college, and was not that into it. However, as a med student, I really enjoy it. For starters, I have a much better understanding of the basic science behind what I'm learning, and I have much more autonomy over my project. I also have an amazing and inspiring mentor (who is an MD, not a PhD) which helps, too. I think all of these things have combined to make research something I love and want to keep doing, instead of a box to check off.

I guess my point is that even if you weren't that into it in undergrad, you might feel different in med school... plus if you think you might want to go into academics, you're going to have to learn how to do it.
 
I hate lab research but clinical research is a different animal altogether. Give it a try if you don't like it, you don't have to stay with it.
 
InternationlDoc said:
Ok. So Sdn has helped me tune my study techniques. and so far, all A's last midterms.

So assuming i continue that and do fairly ok on USMLE (230 ish) do you gurus think I need to go into research and work hard to get a publication out? I am not interested in derm, but am in radiology and Cardiology (via Internal Med?)

What do yall think? opinions much appreciated!
Click to expand...

Add on to the question of OP, since he mentioned about having all A's in tests and stuff. How much does grades matters anyway? I heard it doesn't matter much for residency... am I wrong?
 
vtucci said:
I hate lab research but clinical research is a different animal altogether. Give it a try if you don't like it, you don't have to stay with it.
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What does "clinical" research entail? I'm applying to all these research opportunities in the field that I'm interested in so far, but what would sort of things would I be doing? Is there any patient contact? Is it all epidemiology and analyzing boring statistics of patients with x or y? What sort of things would one do when doing research with an MD, and what can I push to do? So far the MD's I've contacted have been very receptive, but we're trying to define a project to work on, they're asking me what I'd like to do, but I have nothing to go on to frame my expectations.

I have plenty of experience with DNA-ish lab stuff, I'm not really interested in doing that again.
 
anon-y-mouse said:
What does "clinical" research entail? I'm applying to all these research opportunities in the field that I'm interested in so far, but what would sort of things would I be doing? Is there any patient contact? Is it all epidemiology and analyzing boring statistics of patients with x or y? What sort of things would one do when doing research with an MD, and what can I push to do? So far the MD's I've contacted have been very receptive, but we're trying to define a project to work on, they're asking me what I'd like to do, but I have nothing to go on to frame my expectations.

I have plenty of experience with DNA-ish lab stuff, I'm not really interested in doing that again.
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You've got a lot of good questions, so I'll try to go over them.

In another field, most clinical research would be called quality control - did patients do better with new drug y than gold standard X? If so, does the 3-fold increase in cost of drug Y over X warrant switching to Y? What are you number needed to treat with Y before you get an extra person saved (as compared to X)?

You can also insert "treatment" or "procedure" for the word "drug" in the previous paragraph. What really separates clinical research from most other projects is that you're generally recruiting and experimenting on people.

You can also do case reviews, which can be retrospective versions of what I described above (look up all of the people treated with X and Y in the last 5 years and report their outcomes). Sometimes you'll see an interesting case and you'll think the rest of the medical community should know about it - the first signs of AIDS was first reported in this fashion.

Epidemiology has it's place too - you can do many interesting projects - I'm setting up a sports medicine study where I'll measure a bunch of the mechanical forces that athletes experience when they do a particular maneuver. Some of these forces have been linked with injuries - concussions, for example. Some related factors (i.e., strength,) I believe will correlate with reduced forces. This could be termed an epidemiological study because we're looking at the effects of a risky behavior. We'll also go one step further and recommend treatment - a specific training regimen.

To narrow down some project ideas and really help you out, I'd need to get some more context. I'd be willing to help you out via PM if you like.
 
I would be very suprised if you had to do research if you want to go into IM.
 
vtucci said:
I hate lab research but clinical research is a different animal altogether. Give it a try if you don't like it, you don't have to stay with it.
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Basic science research is a tier above clinical research in terms of resume padding for Radiology. Clinical resarch, after all, is usually lot of number crunching.
 
Pinkertinkle said:
Basic science research is a tier above clinical research in terms of resume padding for Radiology. Clinical resarch, after all, is usually lot of number crunching.
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It all depends. Most of my 'basic research' work is so esoteric that most clinicians will look at the first 3 words of the title and throw it out.

The only real good advice I have heard, and this is from our Surgery Residency PD, was to take a project and develop it from the bench all the way through to a clinical application. It shows commitment and scientific acumen, as you're going through several iterations of gathering data, refining your hypothesis, and testing it again.
 
RxnMan said:
It all depends. Most of my 'basic research' work is so esoteric that most clinicians will look at the first 3 words of the title and throw it out.
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Basic science research brings the R01 grants, which boosts the department's NIH ranking, which is what a lot of departments especially those big in academia (i.e. Hopkins, Harvard, etc...) are looking for.

RxnMan said:
The only real good advice I have heard, and this is from our Surgery Residency PD, was to take a project and develop it from the bench all the way through to a clinical application. It shows commitment and scientific acumen, as you're going through several iterations of gathering data, refining your hypothesis, and testing it again.
Click to expand...

It was my impression that bench work has to go through the FDA before you can apply it to patients? I would wager that about ZERO medical students have recently turned their basic science work into a clinical application. If there are, I'd like to hear some examples

A more realistic goal to shoot for is a some basic science publications. Less impressive would be some clinical publications, but still not bad. Either way, you'll be sitting real pretty come residency applications time.
 
Basic science research can be very valuable but it also takes a really long time to develop anything worthwhile. As we all know with our schedules, that kind of time commitment is often not feasible unless we take a year off.

You can work with patients in clinical studies. It can be drug studies, patient satisfaction studies, virtually the sky's the limit. We are only limited by our imagination and funding issues.

You can get studies funded by pharmaceutical companies. I am working with my mentor on this possibility. This is not an attempt to get this forum off on a ethics debate but pharm companies do currently fund a lot of research.
 
Pinkertinkle said:
...Basic science research brings the R01 grants, which boosts the department's NIH ranking, which is what a lot of departments especially those big in academia (i.e. Hopkins, Harvard, etc...) are looking for...
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I agree. I'm trying to give some perspective. We all know the overly academic med student, and I'm saying it's probably better to balance things out a bit with some patient exposure :laugh:
Pinkertinkle said:
...It was my impression that bench work has to go through the FDA before you can apply it to patients?...
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Depends. Medical research isn't just finding new drugs and testing drugs. When I worked for the rehab department of a peds hospital, I'd help the PTs design equipment to test out new therapies (stretching and weight-lifting regimens) on their patients. Then the PT's would see how the test population compared to those receiving the gold standard.

In my case we're applying known therapies (Botox is a good example) in a different manner (immediately after surgery vs. 6 weeks) and seeing what the outcome is
Pinkertinkle said:
I would wager that about ZERO medical students have recently turned their basic science work into a clinical application. If there are, I'd like to hear some examples...
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I can easily imagine a student taking survey data - incidence of some injury in a population (clinical research) - assess their posture and strength related to the injury mechanism (basic science) - and using the results to recommend a therapy, apply it to a new population, and see if the incidence of injury goes down. Would that be hard to do in a 4-year degree? Yes, but you could start a the process and develop the idea, which I stressed was the important part.
 
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