What are the benefits/advantages of being in the AOA?

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tae1703

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What is the AOA? How to become a member? What are the benefits/advantages of being in the AOA?

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What is the AOA? How to become a member? What are the benefits/advantages of being in the AOA?

You can read about it on wikipedia or the AOA (Alpha Omega Alpha) site itself. Membership is available to the top quarter of a class, but no more than 1 in 6 students can be a member. Junior AOA (a third of total AOA per class) is elected at the end of MS 2, the other two thirds at at the end of MS 3. Membership should be determined before residency app's are sent out.

At my place, which does not really respect the society the way that it should, goes by top grades only. There is supposed to be consideration for showing leadership and community service, but I don't think that my school's chapter elects anymore than the top one sixth.

What are the benefits? It is the only way that PGY programs can evaluate your grades. It basically says that you were one of the best students that your school had that year. They can't do it with grades because schools vary greatly in how they evaluate students. It can compensate a little bit for a lower USMLE in a competative specialty; and in top specialties, some say AOA is necessary.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
You can read about it on wikipedia or the AOA (Alpha Omega Alpha) site itself. Membership is available to the top quarter of a class, but no more than 1 in 6 students can be a member. Junior AOA (a third of total AOA per class) is elected at the end of MS 2, the other two thirds at at the end of MS 3. Membership should be determined before residency app's are sent out.

At my place, which does not really respect the society the way that it should, goes by top grades only. There is supposed to be consideration for showing leadership and community service, but I don't think that my school's chapter elects anymore than the top one sixth.

What are the benefits? It is the only way that PGY programs can evaluate your grades. It basically says that you were one of the best students that your school had that year. They can't do it with grades because schools vary greatly in how they evaluate students. It can compensate a little bit for a lower USMLE in a competative specialty; and in top specialties, some say AOA is necessary.


thanx. that was very helpful.
 
What are the benefits? It is the only way that PGY programs can evaluate your grades.

I agree with everything but that statement. I believe that most dean's letters (MSPE or whatever) include information about your performance in relation to your peers. I've seen some with histograms of the student scores with indications of where the applicant fell in the range, etc.

Small point but just trying to offer some hope for folks who do well but didn't make AOA
 
I agree with everything but that statement. I believe that most dean's letters (MSPE or whatever) include information about your performance in relation to your peers. I've seen some with histograms of the student scores with indications of where the applicant fell in the range, etc.

Small point but just trying to offer some hope for folks who do well but didn't make AOA

No argument here. You see, I am justifying my lack of studying right now, trying to be in the bottom half grade-wise with a good step 1. So of course I'm going to say that you can do well and it won't matter if you're not AOA. I'm one of those not doing either!

LOL Dante, the first time I read your signature line after you quoted me months back, I was like, "My post angers you?" Why? What did I say? I didn't realize that it was your signature. I imagine that was the point of you putting it there... :D
 
What are the benefits? It is the only way that PGY programs can evaluate your grades. It basically says that you were one of the best students that your school had that year. They can't do it with grades because schools vary greatly in how they evaluate students.

The Deans letter will rank you as "top third, middle third, bottom third" or some variation of that. Even the students with the best grades aren't guaranteed to get AOA, so the above statement isn't really true. (ex: Gunner student has Honors in everything, but never did any extracurriculars and has mediocre LORs, and he will not get AOA.)

It can compensate a little bit for a lower USMLE in a competative specialty; and in top specialties, some say AOA is necessary.

I doubt that AOA would really compensate for a lower Step 1, since people with a low Step 1 probably wouldn't get AOA. (Step 1 scores and grades tend to correlate.

I've never heard anyone say that AOA is strictly necessary, not even in derm. It helps, sure. But it's not necessary.
 
The Deans letter will rank you as "top third, middle third, bottom third" or some variation of that. Even the students with the best grades aren't guaranteed to get AOA, so the above statement isn't really true. (ex: Gunner student has Honors in everything, but never did any extracurriculars and has mediocre LORs, and he will not get AOA.)

Each school writes their deans letters differently. For example, my school doesn't write ranking in the deans letters at all.
 
I've never heard anyone say that AOA is strictly necessary, not even in derm. It helps, sure. But it's not necessary.


Yeah, I think only around 50% of people who matched into derm in 2005 were AOA based on that released NRMP data.
 
The Deans letter will rank you as "top third, middle third, bottom third" or some variation of that. Even the students with the best grades aren't guaranteed to get AOA, so the above statement isn't really true. (ex: Gunner student has Honors in everything, but never did any extracurriculars and has mediocre LORs, and he will not get AOA.)

At my school, AOA is given out *strictly* based on grades. Some schools take into account extracurriculars (which, personally, I think makes sense... but maybe only bc that would have helped *me* out. ;) ) and some schools go only on GPA. At my school, it's given to the top 5-10% or so of the highest scorers, period.
 
I doubt that AOA would really compensate for a lower Step 1, since people with a low Step 1 probably wouldn't get AOA. (Step 1 scores and grades tend to correlate.

I agree, but I was generalizing because the OP seemed to be new to the AOA concept. I didn't mean low as in 190, I moreso meant that AOA MIGHT be a tiebreaker between two students who were both somewhat close on the USMLE. Of course, if I wrote down numbers for what I mean to be "close," I'm certain that somebody would jump me and say "I know a guy" or "In specialty X..." The point is, it is a good thing, but it is not as important as USMLE.

I've never heard anyone say that AOA is strictly necessary, not even in derm. It helps, sure. But it's not necessary.

Yeah, I think only around 50% of people who matched into derm in 2005 were AOA based on that released NRMP data.

"Only 50%?" That's a lot. I go to school in Oklahoma. Yes, I'm thinking I'd need AOA if I wanted to go into derm. All of the derm matches from my school in the past eight years have been AOA, so from MY prospective, yep, better have AOA if I wanna do derm. I'm sure it's different at UCSF, though.

At my school, AOA is given out *strictly* based on grades. Some schools take into account extracurriculars (which, personally, I think makes sense... but maybe only bc that would have helped *me* out. ;) ) and some schools go only on GPA. At my school, it's given to the top 5-10% or so of the highest scorers, period.

My school also seems to just go be grades (contrary to national AOA guidelines), only we usually have 20-25 students (out of 160) who have perfect grades (yes there is grade inflation). The full top one sixth (17%) actually is appointed most years.
 
"Only 50%?" That's a lot. I go to school in Oklahoma. Yes, I'm thinking I'd need AOA if I wanted to go into derm. All of the derm matches from my school in the past eight years have been AOA, so from MY prospective, yep, better have AOA if I wanna do derm. I'm sure it's different at UCSF, though.

I was being slightly sarcastic when I said ONLY 50% (hence the italics on the word "only") in relation to another person's post. I think saying that approximately half of your derm matches every year are AOA says that it is EXTREMELY advantageous and not having it will probably keep you out of most programs.

Also, I am not a student at UCSF. If UCSF was at one end of the spectrum, my school would be at the polar opposite end. At my school, 6 students are selected for AOA, based on grades (usually how they narrow down the field)--then they evaluate Step 1 scores, evaluations from clerkships, and finally extracurricular activities. We do not have "grade inflation" at my school.
 
I was being slightly sarcastic when I said ONLY 50% (hence the italics on the word "only") in relation to another person's post. I think saying that approximately half of your derm matches every year are AOA says that it is EXTREMELY advantageous and not having it will probably keep you out of most programs.

Also, I am not a student at UCSF. If UCSF was at one end of the spectrum, my school would be at the polar opposite end. At my school, 6 students are selected for AOA, based on grades (usually how they narrow down the field)--then they evaluate Step 1 scores, evaluations from clerkships, and finally extracurricular activities. We do not have "grade inflation" at my school.

Cool {UCSFbound} :oops:

What does your name mean?
 
Cool {UCSFbound} :oops:

What does your name mean?

My name refers to (or did refer to) my desire to be at UCSF for residency. This lame handle was of course created at a time when: 1) I was working in a lab at UCSF before starting medical school and 2) my level of creativity was at a nadir. I hope that the MODs here open things up for another round of name changes sometime in the near future so I can get rid of it as I am not 100% certain I want to be back at UCSF after visiting some tremendous programs on the interview trail. Then my name really wouldn't make sense (as if it ever did:laugh: ).
 
Each school writes their deans letters differently. For example, my school doesn't write ranking in the deans letters at all.

So your school doesn't rank you at all?! You're lucky. My school considered not ranking students (b/c H/P/F makes it hard to rank people), but said that "Residency programs like to see that data," so we still get ranked.
 
Yeah, I think only around 50% of people who matched into derm in 2005 were AOA based on that released NRMP data.

Yeah, I know - I've seen that data too. But, judging from everyone's comments here, AOA criteria is so arbitrary, I don't think that getting AOA is strictly necessary, even for derm (as I originally said). And I don't think that anyone can dispute that AOA is not necessary for something like medicine or peds.

On a side note - I heard of someone at my school a few years ago who matched in derm, despite failing Step 1 once. I don't know how that happened (maybe he donated a kidney to the program director's wife?), but it's definitely true. Anything can happen, I guess.
 
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