Does Pod School affect your residency placement?

Some residencies care more about the GPA, so an easier curriculum would actually help getting into those places. However many residency directors do tend to be biased towards some schools (like UTHSCSA has alot of temple grads). Looking at DMU placement they have residents working all over, even in CSPM's backyard. Go to the school you like best, one that allows you rotations in cali your 4th year, and impress at the interview you'll get in wherever your want.

Dr_Feelgood said:

I'll be honest. None of your schools are upper crust. I'm not sure if any of them will increase you chance at a Cali residency over the other schools. I would probably go to CSPM if you want to be in Cali.

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I agree with feelgood. None of your schools are "upper crust". All of them have reputations for accepting low caliber students for the wrong reasons.

Just going with your gut and to the school you like best is very risky.

Residency directors are definitely particular about which school you come from. Similar students tend to pick similar schools (at least this is what many think). If you were a residency director and had all residents from DMU, scholl and temple and did not know much about the other schools except the bad stuff would you take a chance on a resident from another school when there were just as many as qualified from the schools that you know produce great residents? Even if you stand out above the rest but are from a crappy school, a month or one interview can be a fluke of good luck. Residency directors tend to go with what they think is the sure thing. Not let's try and see what they are like.

I hope this makes some sense and helps you in your decision.

I'd look at Cali and AZPOD and also DMU, and Scholl.

Remember also that you will have to pay for travel to cali externships and for interviews as well. Your externship months may not be back to back and you may have to fly more than once across the country. This can get extremely expensive and going to school in one of the more expensive cities makes this very difficult.

I think the school rep thing gets fairly blown out of proportion. All have strengths, all have weaknesses... and all clearly have egos. The schools might want to quit working so hard against eachother and all just attract better applicants and instructors to make their program the best it can be. If you apply yourself and read enough, you'll be fine. As was said, going to a school which lacks the elite students does have its advantages (possibly better GPA due to curves, more scholarships, better chance of graduating with honors, etc). Almost anyone who applies themself, makes it through pod school and passes the boards is a fairly solid candidate for residency. There's always one or two who might slip through the cracks and be a black eye to the profession, but that happens in anything. Don't be one of them.

You can go to any school and get a Cali residency if you work hard, so pick the one that is the right fit. Barry has a couple biomechanics professors and clinical instructors who graduated from Cali and were named to Podiatry Management's 175 top podiatrists. I'm sure a letter from them wouldn't hurt. Then again, if a recent Barry grad did a very impressive or very unimpressive job as a resident or extern in Cali, then they could have preconcieved notions which could help or hurt you.

I agree with probably choosing Cali in your case for reasons of cost and networking. There would be much less travel during externships, minimal relocation to move to a residency, etc. There is also the factor of slight hometown favoritism in residencies due to familiarity of what kind of student they are getting, but that factor seems overrated to me based on talking to people who have taken residencies/fellowships in so-called "enemy territory" (a city where a different pod school than the one they graduated from is located). A very small % of residencies (the ones associated with a pod school) may only accept graduates of that particular school <--I do not know if Samuel Merritt has such a residency program or not?

As far as networking, you'd know a ton of podiatrists and other health professionals by the end of 4yrs of pod school and 3yrs of residency (maybe even a year of fellowship?) all in Cali. Networking = referrals and respect if you work hard. I'm guessing you plan to practice in Cali also simply because the majority of podiatrists will end up practicing where they take a residency. Practicing in an area near a pod school will always be a bit tougher due to more pod competition, but if you work hard, hopefully you can find a good group practice to buy into and you will have many FP and other specialty docs you have met during your training who will then be referring pod and diabetic cases to you.

Dr_Feelgood said:

I'm not trying to insult you but you are in your 2nd year and Sam is in her 4th. I tend to believe her b/c she has been through the externships.

Again, I'm not trying to pick a fight, just stating my opinion. I would say the same about my comments; Sam would out rank me. I have talk to a few residency directors in my day probably more than you and less than Sam.

That being said I agree with this:


But independent reading without a very solid medical education means you can regurgitate facts but may not know how to apply them.

I completely disagree with this:


High GPA is taken into account by looking at the school it is from. Scholarships mean nothing if you make $50K less a year b/c of poor training. What do honors mean if you are king of underachievers?

I disagree with those points b/c I don't think that enticing people not reach for the best is not good advice. I feel that wants to be a pod should want to go to the best school and be the best pod possible. If someone is looking for easy roads, I personally don't want them. It cheapens the profession I have chosen.

Please take comments as constructive criticism not insults.

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Again, I have to say I agree with feelgood I rule the world as a 4th year.

Feli said:

I think the school rep thing gets fairly blown out of proportion. All have strengths, all have weaknesses... and all clearly have egos. The schools might want to quit working so hard against eachother and all just attract better applicants and instructors to make their program the best it can be. If you apply yourself and read enough, you'll be fine. As was said, going to a school which lacks the elite students does have its advantages (possibly better GPA due to curves, more scholarships, better chance of graduating with honors, etc). Almost anyone who applies themself, makes it through pod school and passes the boards is a fairly solid candidate for residency. There's always one or two who might slip through the cracks and be a black eye to the profession, but that happens in anything. Don't be one of them.

You can go to any school and get a Cali residency if you work hard, so pick the one that is the right fit. Barry has a couple biomechanics professors and clinical instructors who graduated from Cali and were named to Podiatry Management's 175 top podiatrists. I'm sure a letter from them wouldn't hurt. Then again, if a recent Barry grad did a very impressive or very unimpressive job as a resident or extern in Cali, then they could have preconcieved notions which could help or hurt you.

I agree with probably choosing Cali in your case for reasons of cost and networking. There would be much less travel during externships, minimal relocation to move to a residency, etc. There is also the factor of slight hometown favoritism in residencies due to familiarity of what kind of student they are getting, but that factor seems overrated to me based on talking to people who have taken residencies/fellowships in so-called "enemy territory" (a city where a different pod school than the one they graduated from is located). A very small % of residencies (the ones associated with a pod school) may only accept graduates of that particular school <--I do not know if Samuel Merritt has such a residency program or not?

As far as networking, you'd know a ton of podiatrists and other health professionals by the end of 4yrs of pod school and 3yrs of residency (maybe even a year of fellowship?) all in Cali. Networking = referrals and respect if you work hard. I'm guessing you plan to practice in Cali also simply because the majority of podiatrists will end up practicing where they take a residency. Practicing in an area near a pod school will always be a bit tougher due to more pod competition, but if you work hard, hopefully you can find a good group practice to buy into and you will have many FP and other specialty docs you have met during your training who will then be referring pod and diabetic cases to you.

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Much of what you say sounds like it comes from the mouth of professors/admins who are out of touch with the current world of podiatry and residency. I say this because it sounds so similar to what I heard as a 2nd year only to be shocked by the actual process.

Many (not all) of the profs at pod school are not the best resources as they are not the ones running the top residency programs and are not the over achieving type especially at the less than stellar schools.

The whole statement about schools should stop making each other look bad and strive to be better. Let's talk about what the reality is and not what it should be. Let's keep the conversation on the track of what will happen come residency interview time and not what should happen. If you live in a world of should you will be very dissappointed when it comes to interviews and externships. There are many things that should happen but do not - especially in the world of podiatry and medicine.

Strive for the best not the fastest, easiest and cheapest. Cutting corners now will only lead to cutting corners in patient care mostly because you just may not know better.

Masterh said:

Hi, My question is does the podiatry school you attend affect your residency placement. I am currently deciding between Ohio, New York and Barry, however upon hearing many negative things about Barry, i am wondering if the school i attend will be held against me for residency? I would like to do a residency in California and i don't want a reputation from a school to affect my placement. Any input would be appreciated.

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For california, all the pods I shadowed came from the california pod school. I only asked one of them which they thought the best school was and she mentioned Scholl. Granted, if I wanted to do a residency in California, I would consider california as well as other schools. But I'm a first year so there are a lot of students here who know more.

Dr_Feelgood said:

I think that a lot of the spots in Cali are filled by CSPM students b/c that is where they are from. If you went to DMU from Cali and you wanted to get back there, you can do it. But many of the students from the West want to stay in the West, so they are limited to CSPM and AZPOD. I bet most of the programs around NYC are filled by NYCPM students for the same reason.

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True that about NYC programs and NYCPM students. Temple students also sometimes want to come to the NYC or Jersey area.

Masterh said:

...I just thought that if you were a top student at any pod school you should get your 1st choice of residencies. Is there a website with participating hospitals for pod residencies anywhere?

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You can go anywhere and get the residency you want. Schooling in Cali just makes the most sense if you want a residency there. It makes even more sense if you plan on untimately practicing there. Like multiple people said, it's a cost and maybe residency familiarity reasoning. I also think it's a networking advantage if you to spend much time there and know the ins and outs of podiatry in Cali.

Here's the residencies list and their contact info:
http://www.apma.org/s_apma/bin.asp?CID=165&DID=17030&DOC=FILE.pdf

By state:
http://www.casprcrip.org/html/residencies/Wherepr.asp

...any pod school you attend should have an externships/residencies office and probably a secretary dedicated to that paperwork. The office will contain fliers and info from the residencies as well as maybe some former student feedback on their externship impression of select programs. Most schools also schedule residency fairs and have residencies visit periodically. You may find your best source of info to be 4th year students, especially if you want a residency near your school... chances are that many of the upperclassmen just externed there and can tell you what they saw and what they were asked.

I agree with what everyone has said so far. I'll be going to AZPOD this fall and plan to come back to cali for residency. However, if you were to go to school on the East, I would have assumed that doing your externships and rotations in Cali would still provide you with the networks and ins and outs of where you wanted to do your residency? Isn't this the purpose of externships?

Dr_Feelgood said:

...I completely disagree with this:

Feli said:

...As was said, going to a school which lacks the elite students does have its advantages (possibly better GPA due to curves, more scholarships, better chance of graduating with honors, etc)...

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High GPA is taken into account by looking at the school it is from. Scholarships mean nothing if you make $50K less a year b/c of poor training. What do honors mean if you are king of underachievers?

I disagree with those points b/c I don't think that enticing people not reach for the best is not good advice. I feel that wants to be a pod should want to go to the best school and be the best pod possible. If someone is looking for easy roads, I personally don't want them. It cheapens the profession I have chosen.

Please take comments as constructive criticism not insults.

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Your disagreement makes sense to me, but there are multiple facors to consider here which may not be sinking in. Not everyone is young and single with no major attachments to a location.

First off, with a limited number of pod school choices, some students will simply choose by a school's location due to proximity to family and friends or maybe climate preferences. It is a four year commitment to schooling (and those years are typically from the physical and social prime of one's lifetime). A student from, say, Texas may not wish to go to a cold climate and snowy winters to study regardless of where they could get into. A prospective pod student with family and friends in Buffalo, NY might choose NYCPM simply because they don't want to spend excessive time and money to travel far to go home on holiday breaks. An applicant whose fiancee has a great high paying job she loves in Chicago may choose to Scholl for largely for that reasoning. Someone whose parent graduated and practices in Cali might choose that school to continue the tradition and because they know some of the professors. A student with limited money and little family support may need to look closely to scholarship opportunities and offerings, tuition, and average living costs in the locations of the pod schools.

My point was simply that you can get a good educaton at any school if you apply yourself and want to learn. It's true that at some schools you may need to read on your own more in some subjects, and other highly academic schools may not have the best labs. All of them are slightly different. I agree that some schools accept too many students or don't tend to attract the top applicants, but the institutions almost certainly would lose their accreditation if they weren't at least minimally adequate in terms of both instruction and facilities.

As far as academic standards, I agree that if a student doesn't care where they live, is not climate sensitive, and they are willing to relocate to any school, then they should probably attend the pod school they view as the best and most prestigous between all schools which they are accepted to.

Yet another academic consideration is a student with marginal ability. A hypothetical student who worked their tail off in undergrad yet only achieved a 3.0 and a only a 20/M on the MCAT even after the Kaplan class might flunk out second semester at AZPOD, but they might be able to get by due to more generous grading curves at a school with less qualified applicants. Eventually, I hope standards at all schools rise, but people who can get in with lower stats right now still has a chance and might not get their top choice school.

Still, in the end, everyone has to pass the boards and any school will flunk or strictly probate students they feel are not performing adequately. The schools some people here consider "lesser" still get their final graduating classes up to a reasonably comparable level to the so-called "top crust" schools. Top podiatrists come from all schools, and prestigious residency positions are represented by all schools also. Whether you start with 80 or 50 in a pod class doesn't really matter to me if both schools end up with roughly 40-45 good qualified students remaining in the program after 3 or 4 semesters.

In the end, it's a personal decision. Personally, I chose Barry for a few reasonings:
-my immediate family was retiring to Florida soon after I was to start grad school
-it's a Catholic university, and that appealed to me
-the weather is absolutely beautiful here and that facilitates friends and family visiting me while vacationing
-by touring the school and speaking with professors and students, I decided I could get a good education
-I got accpeted and was offered a fairly substantial renewable scholarship by the university

Cheetos said:

I agree with what everyone has said so far. I'll be going to AZPOD this fall and plan to come back to cali for residency. However, if you were to go to school on the East, I would have assumed that doing your externships and rotations in Cali would still provide you with the networks and ins and outs of where you wanted to do your residency? Isn't this the purpose of externships?

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Not to hijack the thread but Hey Cheetos,

In coming back to CA, how do you feel about Schwarzenegger's idea to Tax doctors 2% of their gross income, hospitals 4% and business owners 2% to pay for his health care program? Just wondering. Gives a sour taste in my mouth to be singled out with hospitals and business owners.

I know quite a few grads from ocpm doing their residencies in california - individual effort is definitely a great deal.

Out of the programs you mentioned, I tend to be more biased towards ocpm - so i recommend you visiting those programs first and making an educated decision regarding which school will provide you with the best atmosphere to succeed.

bdaddyjolley said:

Not to hijack the thread but Hey Cheetos,

In coming back to CA, how do you feel about Schwarzenegger's idea to Tax doctors 2% of their gross income, hospitals 4% and business owners 2% to pay for his health care program? Just wondering. Gives a sour taste in my mouth to be singled out with hospitals and business owners.

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They had a similar tax on doctors in NM but they had to abolish it when they started losing all of their doctors. And truth be told, they have never really recovered.

jonwill said:

They had a similar tax on doctors in NM but they had to abolish it when they started losing all of their doctors. And truth be told, they have never really recovered.

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Yep, same thing will happen in CA. Doctors and businesses will leave.

bdaddyjolley said:

Not to hijack the thread but Hey Cheetos,

In coming back to CA, how do you feel about Schwarzenegger's idea to Tax doctors 2% of their gross income, hospitals 4% and business owners 2% to pay for his health care program? Just wondering. Gives a sour taste in my mouth to be singled out with hospitals and business owners.

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In other words, steal from the "potential rich" (who are in debt from loans) and give to the poor? Realistically I can see it go either way both good and bad.

Good - if more people are insured, it could bring higher patients and revenue to doctors and hospitals. 2% of your salary maybe less than the amount of revenue from additional patients you may receive.

Bad - Seems to really screw over business owners, insurance rates may go up, doctors and businesses may leave the state so there would no point in expanding a healthcare system with the # of doctors leaving the state. Malpractice insurance is already taking half of our salary

For those of you unaware of the issue, heres the link:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-ex-gov8jan09,0,2093608.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Masterh said:

Hi, My question is does the podiatry school you attend affect your residency placement. I am currently deciding between Ohio, New York and Barry, however upon hearing many negative things about Barry, i am wondering if the school i attend will be held against me for residency? I would like to do a residency in California and i don't want a reputation from a school to affect my placement. Any input would be appreciated.

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To kind of get us back to the original thread.....

Podiatry school doesn't effect your residency placement because most residencies out there interview students from all schools. There are a few who only take from certain schools but you can always check the CPME website on that.

Residency placement can determine where you might end up living. The reason being is that you start to form relationships with your attendings and they might have a job opening when you finish your residency. That being said, I did my residency in Michigan and wound up in Massachusetts for my 1st job. Now I'm practicing in Arizona.

Dr_Feelgood said:

I completely agree with this statement on the surface but disagree with the overall comment.

Programs will interview from all schools, but..........

1) If an attending is from school A and most (not even all) things being equal; it is natural to have loyalties to your school

2) If you go to school b and get a sub-par education, it will have a huge affect on your externship and interview. These things will greatly affect your residency placement.

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I agree with feelgood and disagree with sports pod.

Even if a program takes externs from all schools and interviews students from all schools when students start talking it is typically students from certain schools ranked 1 and 2.

Other students may be ranked lower but then you do not have your pick.

Just as an example...

If you graduate from harvard (any degree you want) you do not have to impress people as much as if you went to University of Phoenix in an interview.

People typically assume if you went to harvard you are smart even if your GPA is lower than that of the U of Phoenix school.

So the school does matter even in podiatry.

Is it possible that the GPA and school reputation are more important and more highly weighted in situations where one applies and interviews for a residency position at which they did not extern?

It seems that if someone presented themself as a capable and hard working extern, the issue of which pod school they graduated from would be almost moot (maybe a tiebreaker at best if your school matches the residency director's alma mater). In the end, residencies are jobs, so why wouldn't they just take the most competent applicants?

From reading the APMA guide "surviving the clerkship and residency process," it seemed to me that tremendous weight are placed on the externship and interview. A GPA might get you that interview or externship in the first place, but it's pretty hard to "fluke of good luck" every day for an entire month during a clerkship. I don't think it'd be very easy to guess the right answer on pimping questions and magically show up early and prepared to discuss journals and demonstrate clinical skill every day.

While I understand that you have a strong affiiation to your school, it isn't a major factor in determining if you're going to get the spot for residency (unless the residency advertises for only certain schools).

If you extern at the program or even show up for a visit, right there you will have face recognition at interviews. If you bombed your extern visit you might as well stop. But if you kicked butt and worked really hard, got along with everyone and made yourself invaluable to the team you will be matched higher than a person who has a 4.0 GPA and thinks he deserves the program because of his grades or because he went to the same school as the attending did.

Overall, all schools have a good program, it just depends on how much each of you picked up while in school hence the pimping that occurs at visits or externships.

Feli said:

Is it possible that the GPA and school reputation are more important and more highly weighted in situations where one applies and interviews for a residency position at which they did not extern?

It seems that if someone presented themself as a capable and hard working extern, the issue of which pod school they graduated from would be almost moot (maybe a tiebreaker at best if your school matches the residency director's alma mater). In the end, residencies are jobs, so why wouldn't they just take the most competent applicants?

From reading the APMA guide "surviving the clerkship and residency process," it seemed to me that tremendous weight are placed on the externship and interview. A GPA might get you that interview or externship in the first place, but it's pretty hard to "fluke of good luck" every day for an entire month during a clerkship. I don't think it'd be very easy to guess the right answer on pimping questions and magically show up early and prepared to discuss journals and demonstrate clinical skill every day.

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At many (not all) programs you spend little time with the directors or the one who makes the decision. So even a great month as an extern may not help that much. What if the one day you spent with the director you were "off" and from a lower tiered school? Doesn't look good.

If 2 applicants are equal in all other apsects - the externship, the interview, GPA, class rank - the one from the better school will get it. It may not even be the better school that gets the program, just the school that the director is more comfortable taking a student from.

There is even a program that is sort of known for not taking students from the directors school.

so how do the directors determine which person went to the better school, when there are no school rankings?

this is a ******ed train of thought

its gingervitis. we have won the battle, but not the war.

i take it you never watch south park?

the guy in your avatar would be a ginger