Dont Even Consider Mcphs-worcester

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torius71

What's left of me?
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This is a sincere warning. I was told on my interview by students of MCP not to go to Worcester and I didn't listen. Now I am stuck in a HORRIBLE situation that continues to get worse every day. This school accepts at least 50 (No, that is not a typo) over what they can graduate. There is close to a 30% chance that you will fail out if you come here. It doesn't matter who you are either. I am a P2 with a 3.5 cumulative GPA here and was just give a ZERO on my Physical Lab Practical. I will now fail out this semester. There are countless other students in my same position. Every semester I have been here I have had to make all new aquaintences because everyone I have known has failed out. PLEASE DONT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE. THIS IS THE WORST PHARMACY SCHOOL IN THE NATION. PERIOD.

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This is a sincere warning. I was told on my interview by students of MCP not to go to Worcester and I didn't listen. Now I am stuck in a HORRIBLE situation that continues to get worse every day. This school accepts at least 50 (No, that is not a typo) over what they can graduate. There is close to a 30% chance that you will fail out if you come here. It doesn't matter who you are either. I am a P2 with a 3.5 cumulative GPA here and was just give a ZERO on my Physical Lab Practical. I will now fail out this semester. There are countless other students in my same position. Every semester I have been here I have had to make all new aquaintences because everyone I have known has failed out. PLEASE DONT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE. THIS IS THE WORST PHARMACY SCHOOL IN THE NATION. PERIOD.
WOW!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Is this one of those schools where the competition is cutthroat?
 
This school accepts at least 50 (No, that is not a typo) over what they can graduate. There is close to a 30% chance that you will fail out if you come here...THIS IS THE WORST PHARMACY SCHOOL IN THE NATION. PERIOD.

Are you serious? Why isn't anyone fixing this terrible situation? and is it even legal for the school to do something like this?

I'm sorry to hear about what you're going through :(
 
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Why did they give you a zero? Is there someone that you can appeal to?
 
This is a sincere warning. I was told on my interview by students of MCP not to go to Worcester and I didn't listen. Now I am stuck in a HORRIBLE situation that continues to get worse every day. This school accepts at least 50 (No, that is not a typo) over what they can graduate. There is close to a 30% chance that you will fail out if you come here. It doesn't matter who you are either. I am a P2 with a 3.5 cumulative GPA here and was just give a ZERO on my Physical Lab Practical. I will now fail out this semester. There are countless other students in my same position. Every semester I have been here I have had to make all new aquaintences because everyone I have known has failed out. PLEASE DONT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE. THIS IS THE WORST PHARMACY SCHOOL IN THE NATION. PERIOD.

Damn, I was considering that school....not anymore....
 
o, thanks for the info :thumbup:
 
Obviously you did something wrong to merit a zero. Did you even turn it in? Did you do any of the questions? I see you have a 3.5 GPA there and can't seem to understand why which you never stated and then said the school was horrible. Sounds like you are a disgruntled student.
 
This is a sincere warning. I was told on my interview by students of MCP not to go to Worcester and I didn't listen. Now I am stuck in a HORRIBLE situation that continues to get worse every day. This school accepts at least 50 (No, that is not a typo) over what they can graduate. There is close to a 30% chance that you will fail out if you come here. It doesn't matter who you are either. I am a P2 with a 3.5 cumulative GPA here and was just give a ZERO on my Physical Lab Practical. I will now fail out this semester. There are countless other students in my same position. Every semester I have been here I have had to make all new aquaintences because everyone I have known has failed out. PLEASE DONT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE. THIS IS THE WORST PHARMACY SCHOOL IN THE NATION. PERIOD.

Hi there,

It seems as though you are a highly intelligent individual and I will take your fair warning. I greatly appreciate the heads up, as I will strengthen my calculus and p-chem skill set.

However in my opinion, zero's do not manifest themselves. There has to be some underlying circumstance as to why you earned a zero (grades are not given). In my book a zero correlates to a lack of studying and/or a failure to keep up with the work. Your GPA indicates you have been able to keep pace up until now.

Physical chemistry is no joke and in my book this has exposed a weakness in your previous skill sets (my guess would be calculus I, II, or III). I believe your post to be rather rash. Maybe you can elaborate a bit more as to why this situation came about? Was there a lack of studying or was the material simply too much in too little time? In my experience with laboratory practicals (at large state universities), is that they are mostly fair. There tends to be copious amounts of both difficult and easy questions.

Is MCPHS-Worcester that out of control? It just seems as though there have been both VERY positive and VERY negative comments posted on SDN about the school. If possible please elaborate as you have only given a vague description of your situation and the school situation.
 
Based on the info by the poster, he/she said she wasnt alont in getting a zero, so why would the teacher have issuedazero, mayb cheating or he was just plain strict ( and yeah there are mean teachers out there).

But y do they fail their students and how did u manage a 3.5the first semester if they are that bad (then i'd have to assume u are a brainiac).

But still u guys can protest whatever, like i heard howard nursing students did.
 
I am very sorry to hear this..in your opinion (anyone may respond please), do you guys feel the same way about MCPHS-boston, because that is one of the two schools that I have been accepted to so far and I plan to go there. I know boston has a really large classroom size (~250-300), but do you think It could potentially go through the same problems as MCPHS-worchester??
 
I am very sorry to hear this..in your opinion (anyone may respond please), do you guys feel the same way about MCPHS-boston, because that is one of the two schools that I have been accepted to so far and I plan to go there. I know boston has a really large classroom size (~250-300), but do you think It could potentially go through the same problems as MCPHS-worchester??

Hi there,

I think the truth about MCPHS, both Worcester and Boston, lies somewhere between the two stated extremities (positive and negative)---I have heard both.

As with all arguments there is a degree of bias instilled. I will believe what I hear when I encounter it. To think any school is a utopia is sincerely naive. I have studied at many universities both private and public (including NYU & Rutgers). They ALL have issues (major issues). A simple way to look at academia is, there is no substitution for hard work.
 
wow, this is interesting. could you elaborate more on what's going on with the failure rates? why have your colleagues been dropping out? and is there anyone with a positive experience from worcester?
 
"a ZERO on my Physical Lab Practical"

Is this a patient care type of class, or a chem based class? Where I go to school we have patient care labs where we have to perform assessments on "patients" (usually someone that is a friend of the instructor). We perform assessments on them (take vital signs, chest exams, eye exams, etc) in a lab practical format (meaning it's a timed exam), and when the bell rings we move on to the next assessment.

If the OP is talking about a patient care lab, let me tell you it is EASY to fail something like that. Perhaps a student is not good under pressure (say you are flustered to begin with and you are having trouble locating a patient's pulse, etc) or you aren't feeling so well that day. Lots of things can affect performance.

I wouldn't go judging the OP by saying they "deserved" the zero until you actually know the situation.

OP: Have you tried to fight your zero? Some of the students in my class successfully fought failing grades. Certainly if you failed a lab practical type of class you might be able to explain why you failed (feeling sick, the pressure, off day, etc). My school allows us to do a make up on one failed station. For the record, my school seems to fail quite a few students too...we started with around 85 and we're down to about 60. It's pretty insane and discouraging.
 
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Ok seriously, as a student at mcp- don't take the value of a school on one person's statement (even mine). You need to talk to people at the school, everyone here is really nice and frank with you about how the school works- just ask. I love it here- its hard yes and some do fail out, but it is not 30%. From my class of 190, 5 people failed (F) out of some classes. That does not mean that they are kicked out, they just have to take the class over again next year. Which I'm sure is similar to any other school.
In my experience, the school does everything it can to prepare you and to help you do well.

Also- has anyone else noticed that this is the only post that torius71 has made in two years!! He's probably just pissed about the situation, and it does suck to have to repeat- but they don't just fail people for no reason. enough said

Feel free to pm me if you have more questions
astevens
 
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"a ZERO on my Physical Lab Practical"

Is this a patient care type of class, or a chem based class? Where I go to school we have patient care labs where we have to perform assessments on "patients" (usually someone that is a friend of the instructor). We perform assessments on them (take vital signs, chest exams, eye exams, etc) in a lab practical format (meaning it's a timed exam), and when the bell rings we move on to the next assessment.

If the OP is talking about a patient care lab, let me tell you it is EASY to fail something like that. Perhaps a student is not good under pressure (say you are flustered to begin with and you are having trouble locating a patient's pulse, etc) or you aren't feeling so well that day. Lots of things can affect performance.

I wouldn't go judging the OP by saying they "deserved" the zero until you actually know the situation.

OP: Have you tried to fight your zero? Some of the students in my class successfully fought failing grades. Certainly if you failed a lab practical type of class you might be able to explain why you failed (feeling sick, the pressure, off day, etc). My school allows us to do a make up on one failed station. For the record, my school seems to fail quite a few students too...we started with around 85 and we're down to about 60. It's pretty insane and discouraging.


Simply put, I am not attacking anyone stating they "deserved" to fail. Please carefully reread my post, as I have stated the student is "highly intelligent."

The last time I checked, the proficiency in a discipline must be earned, not "GIVEN." We must also take into consideration that the discipline this individual is studying is meriting a professional degree. A simple error in a daily job function could translate to risking a patients life.
 
From my class of 190, 5 people failed (F) out of some classes.

Personally from my class I know a lot more than that who failed. MCP does have a high failure rate, I'm sure one of the highest out of any pharmacy school in the nation. This is what I have observed being here for a year and a half already...every semester the class gets smaller and smaller and smaller. I don't think its a bad school however, its just the curriculum is very difficult. If you don't have a strong science background then you are going to have difficulty in some of the classes (pathophys, biochem, and med chem come to mind). Even if you do have a good science background, there are still opportunities to fail...like on your rotations or in lab. But I think that if you are extra careful and dilligent in your studies, you will make it out fine.
 
Simply put, I am not attacking anyone stating they "deserved" to fail. Please carefully reread my post, as I have stated the student is "highly intelligent."

The last time I checked, the proficiency in a discipline must be earned, not "GIVEN." We must also take into consideration that the discipline this individual is studying is meriting a professional degree. A simple error in a daily job function could translate to risking a patients life.

PMP85, I am just trying to give people a heads up as to what they may be in for. I thought the same way that you did before I came here. Throughout my life, if I or anyone around me had received a bad grade (such as a zero) it was usually always because they didn't work hard enough. That is why I didn't listen to students telling me not to come to MCP-Worcester. I always just assumed they were doing something wrong. I never thought that a program could be that incompetent to lose students who didn't deserve it. I think most people feel this way. But, I am warning everyone that the problem at MCP-Worcester is in the faulty curriculum. With 30% of the class having left, that means 70% is still here and surviving. So, I wouldn't be surprised if most people tell you differently from Worcester. I said nothing when I passed the first year as well. I didn't want to piss anyone off and felt REALLY lucky to have just found myself moving on. I must emphasize the word LUCKY, as that is really the case here at Worcester.
To respond to why I haven't been on the forum in two years is simple. All I have done is studied over the past 2 years. I joined this forum to find out information about MCP-Worcester and wish I had saw more posts like this. I have nothing to gain by telling everyone here about MCP-Worcester.
And yes, I am just one voice. Listen to many others when making your decision. Any school will take hard work, however I believe in most other schools that hard work will be recognized.
As to the person who said I was just disgruntled. Your damn right I am. I have studied over the past 2 years with no other possible option but getting through this program in 3 years. Now I have to find a way to support myself for one year with no money, no loans available to me, no health care, no housing, and no current job. Don't be fooled that when you are left back 1 year in a 3 year program, that its the same as having gone to a 4 year program.
TO EVERYONE: If you have another school that has accepted you then don't think twice. DONT COME TO MCP-WORCESTER, unless absolutely dire circumstances force you to do it. By the way the Boston campus is not this bad. Students have failed out of Worcester and gone to Boston and have said it is fine.
 
PMP85, I am just trying to give people a heads up as to what they may be in for. I thought the same way that you did before I came here. Throughout my life, if I or anyone around me had received a bad grade (such as a zero) it was usually always because they didn't work hard enough. That is why I didn't listen to students telling me not to come to MCP-Worcester. I always just assumed they were doing something wrong. I never thought that a program could be that incompetent to lose students who didn't deserve it. I think most people feel this way. But, I am warning everyone that the problem at MCP-Worcester is in the faulty curriculum. With 30% of the class having left, that means 70% is still here and surviving. So, I wouldn't be surprised if most people tell you differently from Worcester. I said nothing when I passed the first year as well. I didn't want to piss anyone off and felt REALLY lucky to have just found myself moving on. I must emphasize the word LUCKY, as that is really the case here at Worcester.
To respond to why I haven't been on the forum in two years is simple. All I have done is studied over the past 2 years. I joined this forum to find out information about MCP-Worcester and wish I had saw more posts like this. I have nothing to gain by telling everyone here about MCP-Worcester.
And yes, I am just one voice. Listen to many others when making your decision. Any school will take hard work, however I believe in most other schools that hard work will be recognized.
As to the person who said I was just disgruntled. Your damn right I am. I have studied over the past 2 years with no other possible option but getting through this program in 3 years. Now I have to find a way to support myself for one year with no money, no loans available to me, no health care, no housing, and no current job. Don't be fooled that when you are left back 1 year in a 3 year program, that its the same as having gone to a 4 year program.
TO EVERYONE: If you have another school that has accepted you then don't think twice. DONT COME TO MCP-WORCESTER, unless absolutely dire circumstances force you to do it. By the way the Boston campus is not this bad. Students have failed out of Worcester and gone to Boston and have said it is fine.

Hey there,

I really am speechless...

I just don't know what really to say about this situation. I apologize for your difficulties. :( I hope that things move onwards for the better.

I personally would like to think I am a good student, like yourself. However, your horror story makes me even more uneasy about the school. As I have previously stated, there have been both extremely positive and extremely negative postings about MCP. I'm assuming every school has somewhat of an acquired taste. However, if the program simply is a failure by design, a student can do nothing. I don't like that helpless feeling and I have received it from a few universities that I have attended.

As for my academic future, you really have worried me. I would like to have thought I would be prepared for this. I have a very strong scientific background and am graduating Summa Cum Laude in two different scientific disciplines. I hope that my previous education and acquired skill sets can carry me through. I guess I have some decisions to weight out...

Thank you all for your feedback.
 
Hey there,

I really am speechless...

I just don't know what really to say about this situation. I apologize for your difficulties. :( I hope that things move onwards for the better.

I personally would like to think I am a good student, like yourself. However, your horror story makes me even more uneasy about the school. As I have previously stated, there have been both extremely positive and extremely negative postings about MCP. I'm assuming every school has somewhat of an acquired taste. However, if the program simply is a failure by design, a student can do nothing. I don't like that helpless feeling and I have received it from a few universities that I have attended.

As for my academic future, you really have worried me. I would like to have thought I would be prepared for this. I have a very strong scientific background and am graduating Summa Cum Laude in two different scientific disciplines. I hope that my previous education and acquired skill sets can carry me through. I guess I have some decisions to weight out...

Thank you all for your feedback.

Pmp, I can only imagine how I would feel if this post was about my school. Hopefully as more students from MCP see this thread they will have more input. If not, I would do whatever you can do seek out current students to get a broader idea of what's really going on.
 
Hi there,

I think the truth about MCPHS, both Worcester and Boston, lies somewhere between the two stated extremities (positive and negative)---I have heard both.

As with all arguments there is a degree of bias instilled. I will believe what I hear when I encounter it. To think any school is a utopia is sincerely naive. I have studied at many universities both private and public (including NYU & Rutgers). They ALL have issues (major issues). A simple way to look at academia is, there is no substitution for hard work.

Usually when you have two positive extremes on a school it means the school is not easy, and to be honest with you, a PharmD program shouldn't be.
I just got in for the fall of 2007 and have 2 friends from work that are currently in the program, one is P1 and the other is P2. They told me that the accelerated program isn't for everyone and if they can't stand the heat to get out of the kitchen. Too many students now adays are coddled and something obviously merited the zero.
 
PossiblyCrazy,

I agree---I graduated top of my class at a cut-throat university with two degrees (BS Biotechnology, BA Chemistry) in under 4 years (20-22 credits a semester plus summer classes). There really is no substitution for hard work.

However, a professor can make ANY subject difficult. There is a big difference between an exam that is fair and one that is devised to make students fail. Believe me, I have had professors attempt to make people fail.

For example, simply look at the larger university's chemistry and mathematics classes. Those classes are chock full of people who can't take the heat (really don't belong there). Hence, why large programs use them as weed out courses. On many of those exams a 30-40 out of 100 is passing (C). If you get a 50-65 its usually an A.

I do not think that one or two negative comments will sway my decision to a different path (i.e. choose a different school). I know I am ready for these classes and the speed at which the material is taught. I have been digesting information quickly and super efficiently for the past 4 years. I say bring it on.
 
pmp85,

Amen! I wish you luck.... it sounds like you won't need it though.
 
Um....it kinda sounds like someone got on the waitlist for this school, and is now trying to thin out the candidate pool. :rolleyes:
 
Um....it kinda sounds like someone got on the waitlist for this school, and is now trying to thin out the candidate pool. :rolleyes:

HuH? I, personally, have been accepted to MCPHS since November. The individual who started the thread is a P2 there....who is this post directed to?

FYI: I also know that a few of the others posting here have already been accepted OR are current students.
 
HuH? I, personally, have been accepted to MCPHS since November. The individual who started the thread is a P2 there....who is this post directed to?


Maybe it's for a friend...:)
 
Maybe it's for a friend...:)

I don't think people have that much free time. Even so, if that is the only school I got accepted to, I wouldn't care what other people say, I'd still go there.
 
the way i see it, more people pass than fail out of pharmacy school. so if u can't handle it...
 
I am also a P2 at MCPHS-Worcester and I have been visiting this forum since 2004 to help me make my decision on which school to attend. I didn’t even have a profile until today because I didn't have anything to contribute. Seeing this post however after what has happened at MCP a couple of weeks ago made me realize that its my responsibility as a student here to provide some advice to future applicants as well as students who have already made their decision to attend MCP.
MCP-Worcester is a 3 year program that is very demanding due to time constraints and workload. However the program recently underwent a switch from a quarterly to trimester format and our class is the first to actually go through the new format. As can be expected many things are not yet worked out and there are a lot of problems.
The main problem however is that multiple faculty members refuse to see this as a big issue and as a result a class that started with 164 students is now down to 123! This reasonably raised much concern and a letter was sent to the student body last semester that basically shifted all the blame on us. I don’t want to waste your time on all the boring details but suffice it to say that we were told our study habits aren’t good enough and we must improve because nothing was going to change!
At MCP-Worcester the cliché "there's not enough time in a day" holds absolutely true. As a P1 all I did was study and that in addition to my strong science background got me a 3.6 GPA, obviously I didn’t complain and like torius71 and pmp85 strongly believe that my grades were earned. That's why I'm not going to lie and say that all those people that got "weeded out" belonged here. As a P2 in Therapeutics II and Pharmacology/Medchem II again all I do is study and expectedly my grades are lower because there's at least 3 times more material to know but the problem also lies in how the class is being conducted. I can’t know for sure how other schools run Therapeutics but here were are left to do everything on our own. There are no lectures or for the most part any other guidance from the faculty.
This is only a small part of the problem. The other is courses such as Physical Assessment that are ran so haphazardly and students assessed so inaccurately that the grade you get really is just all luck of the draw. As a result after the first physical exam we have 40+ students that have failed and many like torius71 that don't have a prayer in passing unless something changes quick. I got lucky this time but next time I may just get the professor that evaluated torius71 and not be here next year.
In closing I just want to say to torius71 that I don’t know who you are but there's going to be a student meeting announced this week where we will try, yet again make some progress in fixing this mess. To all others I want to say that as of right now I wouldn't recommend anyone going to this school unless they absolutely have to or are willing to have their future left up to luck and not amount of hard work.
 
wow, this is interesting. could you elaborate more on what's going on with the failure rates? why have your colleagues been dropping out? and is there anyone with a positive experience from worcester?

I copied and pasted this directly out of the universities self study report. It is public information. If anyone wants the full thing it is on the schools website or contact me and I will send it to you. The results are really disturbing, but I'll let you guys decide. Like I said they are on the website if anyone says I am making they up.

In the spring of 2006, the Student Affairs Division administered the Noel-Levitz Student Satisfaction Inventory (SSI) to 1248 students across all three campuses to determine College strengths and challenges in achieving student satisfaction with responsiveness to student needs. The SSI calculates performance gaps between the importance rating of a specific aspect of college life and the satisfaction rating a student assigns to that same aspect of college life. Noel-Levitz staff indicated to MCPHS that East coast health sciences institutions typically detect higher performance gaps than other institutions. The typical range of performance gaps for seven peer institutions was 1.0-2.0. MCPHS identified any performance gaps of 2.0 or greater as institutional challenges requiring attention. Based upon this survey, academic course content, knowledgeable faculty, campus safety and security, and well maintained facilities appear to be strengths across all three campuses. The
challenges that students identified across all campuses are concern for the individual student by the institution, and quality of student experience as influenced by enrollment growth and service delivery (Boston), policy enforcement and instruction (Worcester), and student government and programming challenges (Manchester). Differences among campuses in other strengths and challenges were identified and will be utilized in developing steps to address institutional challenges students have identified. The summary table below shows campus performance gap means in comparison to the performance gap mean of benchmark institutions (SSI Executive Summary and results in the workroom).

Summary of SSI Results - Performance Gaps

Boston (n=931) Worcester (n=254) Manchester (n=63) Comparison Group
Instructional Effectiveness 1.97 2.54 1.99 1.18
Safety & Security 2.16 2.26 1.78 1.64
Academic Advising 1.85 2.05 1.53 1.14
Registration Effectiveness 2.18 2.09 1.82 1.38
Concern for the Individual 2.15 2.74 1.76 1.22
Recruitment and FinancialAid 2.34 2.01 1.86 1.52
Campus Climate 2.07 2.92 2.19 1.25
Campus Support Services 1.63 1.94 1.99 0.84
Student Centeredness 2.15 3.21 2.22 1.18
Service Excellence 1.90 2.46 1.86 1.26
Campus Life 1.63 2.30 2.26 1.03


HERI 01-02 data indicated that 45% of MCPHS faculty were "at odds" with campus administrators compared to 19% of nationally-polled faculty. By 04-05 this perception had dropped to 30.6% of College faculty, compared to 14% of all respondents nationally. Faculty response to the IEC survey statement that the College administration fosters adequate communication, and that the organization of the College fosters adequate communication were 35% agree, 34% disagree for the former statement, and 39% agree, 39% disagree for the latter. However, with regard to the statement that policy decisions are made with appropriate input from faculty, and that such decisions are made with an understanding of the academic issues involved, the IEC responses were 23% agree, 51% disagree and 24% agree, 48% disagree, respectively. These data may reflect concern with the rapid rate of growth at the College and changing expectations of faculty productivity and accountability. In addition, these data indicate that MCPHS has not completely overcome the communication concerns of NEASC in 1997. Vision 2008 provides another step toward improved communication in its Strategic Initiative #1, Diverse Perspectives, One Vision. This interpretation is supported by written comments from the 2006 IEC survey (combined responses of administration, faculty and staff). A summary of these indicates that perceived areas of institutional strength include the people who work here ("dedicated faculty, staff, & administration") and quality of academic programs. Perceived areas of concern include communication (general, as well as faculty and staff input regarding decision making) and rate of growth (implementing and changing programs too quickly; understaffing; inadequate space – classroom, office and student housing). Communication has been identified as an institutional challenge since the 1997 NEASC site visit and through the recent strategic planning process. Efforts to improve internal and external communication are described in
Standard 10.
 
I copied and pasted this directly out of the universities self study report. It is public information. If anyone wants the full thing it is on the schools website or contact me and I will send it to you. The results are really disturbing, but I'll let you guys decide. Like I said they are on the website if anyone says I am making they up.

In the spring of 2006, the Student Affairs Division administered the Noel-Levitz Student Satisfaction Inventory (SSI) to 1248 students across all three campuses to determine College strengths and challenges in achieving student satisfaction with responsiveness to student needs. The SSI calculates performance gaps between the importance rating of a specific aspect of college life and the satisfaction rating a student assigns to that same aspect of college life. Noel-Levitz staff indicated to MCPHS that East coast health sciences institutions typically detect higher performance gaps than other institutions. The typical range of performance gaps for seven peer institutions was 1.0-2.0. MCPHS identified any performance gaps of 2.0 or greater as institutional challenges requiring attention. Based upon this survey, academic course content, knowledgeable faculty, campus safety and security, and well maintained facilities appear to be strengths across all three campuses. The
challenges that students identified across all campuses are concern for the individual student by the institution, and quality of student experience as influenced by enrollment growth and service delivery (Boston), policy enforcement and instruction (Worcester), and student government and programming challenges (Manchester). Differences among campuses in other strengths and challenges were identified and will be utilized in developing steps to address institutional challenges students have identified. The summary table below shows campus performance gap means in comparison to the performance gap mean of benchmark institutions (SSI Executive Summary and results in the workroom).

Summary of SSI Results - Performance Gaps

Boston (n=931) Worcester (n=254) Manchester (n=63) Comparison Group
Instructional Effectiveness 1.97 2.54 1.99 1.18
Safety & Security 2.16 2.26 1.78 1.64
Academic Advising 1.85 2.05 1.53 1.14
Registration Effectiveness 2.18 2.09 1.82 1.38
Concern for the Individual 2.15 2.74 1.76 1.22
Recruitment and FinancialAid 2.34 2.01 1.86 1.52
Campus Climate 2.07 2.92 2.19 1.25
Campus Support Services 1.63 1.94 1.99 0.84
Student Centeredness 2.15 3.21 2.22 1.18
Service Excellence 1.90 2.46 1.86 1.26
Campus Life 1.63 2.30 2.26 1.03


HERI 01-02 data indicated that 45% of MCPHS faculty were “at odds” with campus administrators compared to 19% of nationally-polled faculty. By 04-05 this perception had dropped to 30.6% of College faculty, compared to 14% of all respondents nationally. Faculty response to the IEC survey statement that the College administration fosters adequate communication, and that the organization of the College fosters adequate communication were 35% agree, 34% disagree for the former statement, and 39% agree, 39% disagree for the latter. However, with regard to the statement that policy decisions are made with appropriate input from faculty, and that such decisions are made with an understanding of the academic issues involved, the IEC responses were 23% agree, 51% disagree and 24% agree, 48% disagree, respectively. These data may reflect concern with the rapid rate of growth at the College and changing expectations of faculty productivity and accountability. In addition, these data indicate that MCPHS has not completely overcome the communication concerns of NEASC in 1997. Vision 2008 provides another step toward improved communication in its Strategic Initiative #1, Diverse Perspectives, One Vision. This interpretation is supported by written comments from the 2006 IEC survey (combined responses of administration, faculty and staff). A summary of these indicates that perceived areas of institutional strength include the people who work here (“dedicated faculty, staff, & administration”) and quality of academic programs. Perceived areas of concern include communication (general, as well as faculty and staff input regarding decision making) and rate of growth (implementing and changing programs too quickly; understaffing; inadequate space – classroom, office and student housing). Communication has been identified as an institutional challenge since the 1997 NEASC site visit and through the recent strategic planning process. Efforts to improve internal and external communication are described in
Standard 10.

In my opinion this is all pretty good grounds for a lawsuit. I will promise it now, should this happen to me, and I as a student am left to feel hopeless/threatened, I will not hesitate to protect my rights. It would not be the first time I've engineered such a movement. People seem to speak better in legal terms and highly negative publicity.

Yes, I agree that the university is privately operated. However, this does not give them the right to play unfairly. The rules still exist for everyone. In the implied definition of a business, services must be rendered and a customer should remain mostly content with the product. Seems like there are very few content customers...
 
For all of those interested in comprehending why torius71 has posted this thread please follow up on his/her previous post:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=187535

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=186001
Posted 4/4/2005

I will not cross-post as it is against the rules. However, judging by your first post on this thread, you seem to be lashing out and highly frustrated. I have apologized and wished you the best.

*Please also read torius71's other previous posts. You should have better understand as to where this thread is being derived--you be the judge.

NOTE: My posts are NOT intended to offend you (torius71) in any way. I, as a future student of MCPHS, need to conduct my due diligence and compose a fair assessment. I do have other options in the way of program selections.

Your current situation makes it seem as though you may have a problem with testing (i.e. your previous "atrociously poor PCAT scores"). Furthermore, you have given a VERY poor explanation as to why this situation unfolded as it did. Please note that I have asked you multiple times to elaborate on your current situation--you have failed to do so. The only justification you have put forth to the readers is a bashing of the school and program.

In the previously dated post (4/4/05), you have also hinted at the fact that you probably would not have been accepted to pretty much any PharmD program if your PCAT scores had been exposed (and if they were necessary at MCPHS).

In my opinion, there could be a direct correlation between your poor performance in that class and your poor testing abilities. Therefore, we as an audience cannot judge this situation as solely being the professor's fault to fail you and/or the vigorous school curriculum. Simply put, you can't expect to get through a professional degree without being able to test well. In fact, I find the PCAT's to be a great predictor of how you will perform in pharmacy school. People who test well, seem to always fair well in vigorous programs. Do not get me wrong, you may have the greatest personality in the world but as a professional how can you expect to consult individuals on their medical repertoire's without a firm knowledge of the discipline?

I did do my due diligence on your previous postings as they are public information. I hope that you can now yield a better explanation to our readers as to why this situation may not ONLY be the school/curriculum's fault.
 
Can someone point me to the posts that mention the 'extremely positive' ratings of MCP in general? For a school that is known to be the 2nd oldest pharmacy school, it is not even ranked as a top 50 pharmacy schools in the US news.

From what I heard, the entering pre-pharmacy freshmen class of last year was about 500 students.

The physical assessment lab, especially the retail-like lab, in Boston has slightly improved, since they have made some changes to the people in charge (one is no longer there), and also was slapped by a lawsuit filed by a student last year because of the inconsistent grading.
 
Can someone point me to the posts that mention the 'extremely positive' ratings of MCP in general? For a school that is known to be the 2nd oldest pharmacy school, it is not even ranked as a top 50 pharmacy schools in the US news.

From what I heard, the entering pre-pharmacy freshmen class of last year was about 500 students.

As far as top schools go, most of the ranking system is based upon research funding. My question is, how can you base a teaching institution upon research funding? There is no correlation between the two, and many professionals seem to even completely disregard the rankings. I personally am not basing my choice of schools upon the US News Rankings--there just seems to be too many political motives behind them.

I agree, 500 students is a few too many. However, there are 3 different campuses to MCPHS (Boston (MA), Worcester (MA), & Manchester (NH)). Due to the fact that there are 3 fully functional campuses I can understand why there are 500 students.
 
My aunt graduated from MCPHS-Boston back in the 1984. There was no Worcester campus at the time. But guess what? She told me MANY of the same complaints that are posted on this forum. She went out of high school and she told me that her rotation at Brigham Hospital in Boston failed 75% of the people who happened to get the rotation. She unfortuantely got the rotation but passed. Also, she took prepharm there and she had to take o-chem twice. She almost failed the second time, but my grandfather (who is not alive anymore, unfortunately), begged the professor to pass her because it was within a tenth of a percent of getting a C. So, the professor eventually did pass her.

But she was so nervous that she would not get through. And she barely made it. But she claims that she became a better pharmacist because of the rigorous curriculum and that MCPHS prepared her.

She claims she lost over half of her class from year 1 to year 5 (it was bachelor of pharmacy at the time).

Rigorous curriculum is okay. But if grading is INCONSISTENT without a standard for labs especially, then there is a serious problem. That is if one person with similar performance gets, let us say a B, and the other person gets a 0. There is something really wrong. And it sounds more like unfair / unequal grading of lab practicals here. That is bad.

If that is the case, I would not go here. If it is just a very difficult program, that is fine.
 
The school in Boston is quite small to hold that many students. It also could run into problems of classroom spaces, and putting students on rotation placements. Such is the case this year for students who should have some exposure to do an institutional internship, but may have not have the opportunity, so the alternative for them is to do yet another community internship, which most have done already. Also, I hear they expect to graduate about 180 students in Boston each year. Seem like a lot of cut-offs have to occur in order to make it happen.

They seem to known for accepting so many students and graduating a certain quota, way less than number they accept.

I suppose there is no correlation between the two, but I do question the efficacy of some of the faculty teachings here.


As far as top schools go, most of the ranking system is based upon research funding. My question is, how can you base a teaching institution upon research funding? There is no correlation between the two, and many professionals seem to even completely disregard the rankings. I personally am not basing my choice of schools upon the US News Rankings--there just seems to be too many political motives behind them.

I agree, 500 students is a few too many. However, there are 3 different campuses to MCPHS (Boston (MA), Worcester (MA), & Manchester (NH)). Due to the fact that there are 3 fully functional campuses I can understand why there are 500 students.
 
My aunt graduated from MCPHS-Boston back in the 1984. There was no Worcester campus at the time. But guess what? She told me MANY of the same complaints that are posted on this forum. She went out of high school and she told me that her rotation at Brigham Hospital in Boston failed 75% of the people who happened to get the rotation. She unfortuantely got the rotation but passed. Also, she took prepharm there and she had to take o-chem twice. She almost failed the second time, but my grandfather (who is not alive anymore, unfortunately), begged the professor to pass her because it was within a tenth of a percent of getting a C. So, the professor eventually did pass her.

But she was so nervous that she would not get through. And she barely made it. But she claims that she became a better pharmacist because of the rigorous curriculum and that MCPHS prepared her.

She claims she lost over half of her class from year 1 to year 5 (it was bachelor of pharmacy at the time).

Rigorous curriculum is okay. But if grading is INCONSISTENT without a standard for labs especially, then there is a serious problem. That is if one person with similar performance gets, let us say a B, and the other person gets a 0. There is something really wrong. And it sounds more like unfair / unequal grading of lab practicals here. That is bad.

If that is the case, I would not go here. If it is just a very difficult program, that is fine.

Cdpiano,

Thank you for the feedback. Honestly, I needed to hear a fair assessment of the school both positive and negative. My understanding thus far is that people DO graduate with very good grades. I also understand that some people flunk terribly. We just all need to understand this happens EVERYWHERE! This is an accelerated program...

As far as your family goes, O-Chem is the bread and butter of the entire pharmaceutical industry. If you cannot pass it, how can you expect to succeed? Hence, why schools use o-chem as to judge how well of you will digest the material to follow.

I agree that inconsistent grading is completely wrong. However, we also need to understand that some of the individuals posting here are not yielding both sides of the story. All of the posts are VERY vague. If the school is unfair that is terrible and something should be done (like i have previously stated they NEED to play by the rules). I also agree that a vigorous program yields a good professional. I simply need to figure out which case is happening here...

As of right, the score is tied. Ive heard two sides...

Thank you!

-PMP
 
I am also a P2 at MCPHS-Worcester and I have been visiting this forum since 2004 to help me make my decision on which school to attend. I didn’t even have a profile until today because I didn't have anything to contribute. Seeing this post however after what has happened at MCP a couple of weeks ago made me realize that its my responsibility as a student here to provide some advice to future applicants as well as students who have already made their decision to attend MCP.
MCP-Worcester is a 3 year program that is very demanding due to time constraints and workload. However the program recently underwent a switch from a quarterly to trimester format and our class is the first to actually go through the new format. As can be expected many things are not yet worked out and there are a lot of problems.
The main problem however is that multiple faculty members refuse to see this as a big issue and as a result a class that started with 164 students is now down to 123! This reasonably raised much concern and a letter was sent to the student body last semester that basically shifted all the blame on us. I don’t want to waste your time on all the boring details but suffice it to say that we were told our study habits aren’t good enough and we must improve because nothing was going to change!
At MCP-Worcester the cliché "there's not enough time in a day" holds absolutely true. As a P1 all I did was study and that in addition to my strong science background got me a 3.6 GPA, obviously I didn’t complain and like torius71 and pmp85 strongly believe that my grades were earned. That's why I'm not going to lie and say that all those people that got "weeded out" belonged here. As a P2 in Therapeutics II and Pharmacology/Medchem II again all I do is study and expectedly my grades are lower because there's at least 3 times more material to know but the problem also lies in how the class is being conducted. I can’t know for sure how other schools run Therapeutics but here were are left to do everything on our own. There are no lectures or for the most part any other guidance from the faculty.
This is only a small part of the problem. The other is courses such as Physical Assessment that are ran so haphazardly and students assessed so inaccurately that the grade you get really is just all luck of the draw. As a result after the first physical exam we have 40+ students that have failed and many like torius71 that don't have a prayer in passing unless something changes quick. I got lucky this time but next time I may just get the professor that evaluated torius71 and not be here next year.
In closing I just want to say to torius71 that I don’t know who you are but there's going to be a student meeting announced this week where we will try, yet again make some progress in fixing this mess. To all others I want to say that as of right now I wouldn't recommend anyone going to this school unless they absolutely have to or are willing to have their future left up to luck and not amount of hard work.

The worrisome part of your post to me as someone who teaches is your comment on no lectures in Therapeutics & a poorly run Physical Assessment course which is the basis of the future of pharmacy. There are many ways to run these courses & not all involve a large lecture format to 120+ students. But, rarely will self directed study return successful results.

For those who wonder - does the school choice matter? No - the school choice should not matter, but the course curriculum certainly does.

We can get anyone with enough memorization skills to memorize the material to sufficiently pass the licensure examination, but in the years ahead, we are looking to extra credentialing to do work beyond that of checking robotics or technicians. One needs to wonder if these students are truly being prepared for the profession as its going to be rather than what it was decades ago?
 
Again, MCP Worcester *IS* a very difficult school to pass and its very easy to fail if you are not extra careful and study your butt off. To those attending this fall - I would prepare myself for 3 years of blood, sweat, and tears if I were you. The teachers are very good and the material they teach you is great, but the course load is nuts and some classes are set up so that an F is less than 70% (like PPP LAB). Second year is even crazier than the first year especially Therapeutics class where the failure rate is sky high. To be honest if I had a choice between mcp worcester and another school, I'd go for the other school, hands down.
 
Again, MCP Worcester *IS* a very difficult school to pass and its very easy to fail if you are not extra careful and study your butt off. To those attending this fall - I would prepare myself for 3 years of blood, sweat, and tears if I were you. The teachers are very good and the material they teach you is great, but the course load is nuts and some classes are set up so that an F is less than 70% (like PPP LAB). Second year is even crazier than the first year especially Therapeutics class where the failure rate is sky high. To be honest if I had a choice between mcp worcester and another school, I'd go for the other school, hands down.

I believe that I understand what you are attempting to convey and couldn't agree more. However, to be honest if you graduated from a large state university (like myself), you know that this happens ALL the time. At these universities, some individuals float by without studying and others struggle till no end. This is all part of academia. The old bell-curve is an everyday occurrence at highly competitive state schools. So a 30% being a C is not a far fetched concept to many students.

I do agree with the previous statement made by PossiblyCrazy in this thread (above). Today's students emerging from some private undergraduate institutions are babied! There is ZERO self-learning. Spoon feeding should NOT be a part of higher education. I don't even agree with the fact that today's colleges and universities across the nation are teaching 20 year-old students remedial mathematics. Thats absurd, those classes shouldn't even exist at a university! By definition a university is a place for "higher learning."

I have examples to prove my statements:
A bunch my high school friends attended smaller private institutions across the US and studied the sciences (biology, chemistry, and physics). When I visited them, I could not believe my eyes. There is NO comparison in the pace and level of study between large state schools and a private school. On strictly an information comparison, what a state school covers (i.e. in math) in 1 semester (3/4 credits), a private school MAY cover in an ENTIRE year (6/8 credits). Not to mention, at a state school your grade is directly derived from the person sitting next to you. Therefore, all you have to be is smarter than the group of geniuses whom are sitting in the front row. :D A lot more difficult then it sounds.

My sole question for current students is not whether the program is difficult. There is no doubt that I will have to work my rear off. For the next three years I do not intend to have a social life--period.

My questions are:
Is the program fair? Do students who study for an exam (as they should--putting enough time into the material) fail because of unfair examinations and/or unfair professors? Are the professors available for help? Is the material being assigned properly (no surprises on exams--by this I do not mean an exam question that was derived from a reading that was assigned as a reference--that is fair game in my book)?

Overall from what Ive gathered, at MCP there are obviously students who are doing very well and those that are struggling. I cannot see how this can be any different than what some of us are used to on a daily basis at a cut-throat public university. If the professors are the cause of the learning troubles the situation is different. This situation may just seem strange to me because I cannot be there to visualize it. It may even be possible that I am just completely misunderstand everyone...
 
pmp85, I have absoutely no stake here except as a rubbernecker. I think you need to stop posting and consider your alternatives. On the positive side, the program is 3 years and graduates most of it students. If you include those who fail and take 4 years then I assume the number goes up to +80%, but you have some significant input from people that you may want to stop and consider. The issues are arbitrary grading and poor curriculum design. I don't think knocking vague comments on this board is a worthwhile exercise since this is not a truly anonymous forum. I think it was either brave or stupid for any current student to post negative comments because they could be identified relatively easily. Vagueness is a partial shield against retaliation. I suggest that you take your concerns offline to the administration and allow them to direct you to current students. Schools should be more than happy to oblige a respectful request for information and contact with current students. That is going to help you a lot more than debating whether people you don't know worked hard enough or not.
 
pmp85, I have absoutely no stake here except as a rubbernecker. I think you need to stop posting and consider your alternatives. On the positive side, the program is 3 years and graduates most of it students. If you include those who fail and take 4 years then I assume the number goes up to +80%, but you have some significant input from people that you may want to stop and consider. The issues are arbitrary grading and poor curriculum design. I don't think knocking vague comments on this board is a worthwhile exercise since this is not a truly anonymous forum. I think it was either brave or stupid for any current student to post negative comments because they could be identified relatively easily. Vagueness is a partial shield against retaliation. I suggest that you take your concerns offline to the administration and allow them to direct you to current students. Schools should be more than happy to oblige a respectful request for information and contact with current students. That is going to help you a lot more than debating whether people you don't know worked hard enough or not.


I agree, the board is anonymous so questions that people don't feel comfortable responding to should not be answered. I appreciate your concerns, and thank you for calling me out. I will take up any further concerns with the admin.
 
A major complaint at UIC, on all academic levels, is the lack of spoon feeding. They don't believe in hand holding. Even with that mentality, the COP still doesn't want students to fail. Our failure reflects upon them.
However, it is not right for a program to set you up for failure. You got to include reason into the equation. If a lot of people are failing, you should find out why, and find a way to improve the situation.
Most pharmacy schools have very low flunk out rates.
 
The reason for the high drop out rate at MCP is the grading system. It is particularly harsh. For example some of the classes are divided into 3 sections. If you get below 60% on an individual section, you fail. If you get below 70% cumulative for all 3 sections, you fail. One very important lab class I know fails you if you get below 70%. This lab class is also extremely difficult. The classes themselves are also on the difficult side. Plus they jam pack you with classes every semester. When you weigh these three things together, you have an integrated system that is much harsher than the average pharmacy school. I haven't taken all the courses yet and so far after one year I already know this much. Who knows what else lies in the not so distant horizon for us.
 
The reason for the high drop out rate at MCP is the grading system. It is particularly harsh. For example some of the classes are divided into 3 sections. If you get below 60% on an individual section, you fail. If you get below 70% cumulative for all 3 sections, you fail. One very important lab class I know fails you if you get below 70%. This lab class is also extremely difficult. The classes themselves are also on the difficult side. Plus they jam pack you with classes every semester. When you weigh these three things together, you have an integrated system that is much harsher than the average pharmacy school. I haven't taken all the courses yet and so far after one year I already know this much. Who knows what else lies in the not so distant horizon for us.

:( I'm positive this cannot be good for any of us. Thank you for all of your advisement. Do you believe there to be anything that I could begin preparing for now (this way I can ease into the adjustment)? I see above some suggestions to brush up on anatomy and physiology.
 
:( I'm positive this cannot be good for any of us. Thank you for all of your advisement. Do you believe there to be anything that I could begin preparing for now (this way I can ease into the adjustment)? I see above some suggestions to brush up on anatomy and physiology.

Theres no anatomy. Theres physiology and pathophysiology. Semester one is physio and patho physio I. Semester 3 is physio and patho physio II. Unless you are weak in physio I wouldn't need to brush up on it. If you took it during undergrad and did well, you should be fine. What I think you *do* need to brush up on is the more "pharmaceutical" material...like the drugs. I'd advise buying "The Pill Book" or another well known drug reference book and study it inside and out. You will need it for professional pharmacy practice lab during semester 3, and introduction to pharmaceutical care semesters I and II. then theres Therapeutics all during your 2nd year. Things that are important are brand/generic names of drugs, mechanism of action, drug-drug interactions, indication, and adverse effects (side effects). If you can memorize all this info for the major drugs out there, it will help you alot. Maybe putting together a table would be a good idea. Besides, this is information you are going to *have* to know anyway, whether it be pharmacy school or in practice after you graduate.
 
Theres no anatomy. Theres physiology and pathophysiology. Semester one is physio and patho physio I. Semester 3 is physio and patho physio II. Unless you are weak in physio I wouldn't need to brush up on it. If you took it during undergrad and did well, you should be fine. What I think you *do* need to brush up on is the more "pharmaceutical" material...like the drugs. I'd advise buying "The Pill Book" or another well known drug reference book and study it inside and out. You will need it for professional pharmacy practice lab during semester 3, and introduction to pharmaceutical care semesters I and II. then theres Therapeutics all during your 2nd year. Things that are important are brand/generic names of drugs, mechanism of action, drug-drug interactions, indication, and adverse effects (side effects). If you can memorize all this info for the major drugs out there, it will help you alot. Maybe putting together a table would be a good idea. Besides, this is information you are going to *have* to know anyway, whether it be pharmacy school or in practice after you graduate.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Just bought copy. :D
 
Anyway, what is the passing rate of the NAPLEX from MCPHS-Worcester? If it is higher than most schools, then the school is certainly doing its job. If it is lower, then the teaching is not effective.

I think that people should have access to this.
 
I had my interview there a week ago and the faculty member told me that their passing rate is higher than the national average.
 
Anyway, what is the passing rate of the NAPLEX from MCPHS-Worcester? If it is higher than most schools, then the school is certainly doing its job. If it is lower, then the teaching is not effective.

I think that people should have access to this.

MCPHS-Worcester hides their NAPLEX scores each year. You must schedule a meeting with the Dean to see them. Most schools scores are available publicly so that should tell us something. I can tell you that one of my classmates went to one of our professor's office hours to ask him why our Pharmacology final exam is cumulative this year, when last year it wasn't. He said that the Worcester graduating class of 2006 had a really low passing percentage on the NAPLEX. Most of you will probably just say I am lying again, but I just wanted to get that out there.
 
I had my interview there a week ago and the faculty member told me that their passing rate is higher than the national average.

This is what I hear from every single school. They're ALL above the national average. It makes me wonder if there are any schools out there that are below the average.
 
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