Dont Even Consider Mcphs-worcester

[Fidodido123]

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I had my interview there a week ago and the faculty member told me that their passing rate is higher than the national average.

You have to pay close attention when you hear something like that.
MCPHS has a high NAPLEX passing rate that has nothing to do with the amount of people "failing" out (since they dont get to take the NAPLEX).

Anywho, back to the issue at hand. I have a few friends at MCPHS-Worcester. Also, i have talked to a few people online that are currently attending the school via facebook. Im going to post two responses from people who used to go to my school (UCONN). Im just going to copy paste the messages they sent me.

Opinion 1: its pretty challenging. You basically need to hang in there n just go for it. Umm...as i said it is pretty difficult because ull need to be on top of ur material all the time bacause in ur first semester ull have one or 2 and if not.. more exams every week. Yes, i said every week...lol. but this semester, well the second semester is pretty decent...it boiled down to only one exam a week...so it's not as bad...but the summer gets very tough i heard..so just make sure this is wat u really wanna do ...cuz ull be studying most of ur time here....besides that its all good..professors are nice..i hope i didnt scare u...and i hope this helps.

Opinion 2:With Worcester, keep in mind you're getting an accelerated program. That is, you sacrifice two summers for two extra semesters to complete four years' work in three. (You still get the good month of August and Christmas season off). Class sizes are small; you'll know everyone and they'll know you. ........................... Also, MCP is a private institution; Worcester, with tuition, room, and board, can cost as much as $45K per year. You may have to rely on private loans because of that.
(He really didnt have anything negative to say)

Not everyone is complaining about the professors. I hope this helps!

 

[Jbuprepharm]

I have examples to prove my statements:
A bunch my high school friends attended smaller private institutions across the US and studied the sciences (biology, chemistry, and physics). When I visited them, I could not believe my eyes. There is NO comparison in the pace and level of study between large state schools and a private school. On strictly an information comparison, what a state school covers (i.e. in math) in 1 semester (3/4 credits), a private school MAY cover in an ENTIRE year (6/8 credits). Not to mention, at a state school your grade is directly derived from the person sitting next to you. Therefore, all you have to be is smarter than the group of geniuses whom are sitting in the front row. 😀 A lot more difficult then it sounds.

I really don't mean to thread jack here, but I'd really like to know where your friends go to school. I went to a small private university, and when my classmates and I were competing with people from the nearby state universities (Oklahoma, Arkansas, Missouri), there was no question that we had recieved a superior education in both knowledge and critical thinking. By the numbers, their best were likely better than ours, (and I would hope so for a school with 20K+ vs 1200) but to say we were spoon fed anything would not only be insulting but completely untrue.

Thread jack off (but seriously, where do these friends of yours go to school?)

 

[pmp85]

I really don't mean to thread jack here, but I'd really like to know where your friends go to school. I went to a small private university, and when my classmates and I were competing with people from the nearby state universities (Oklahoma, Arkansas, Missouri), there was no question that we had recieved a superior education in both knowledge and critical thinking. By the numbers, their best were likely better than ours, (and I would hope so for a school with 20K+ vs 1200) but to say we were spoon fed anything would not only be insulting but completely untrue.

Thread jack off (but seriously, where do these friends of yours go to school?)

I beg your pardon? To be honest, there was no need to be nasty here. There is a huge difference between making a bold statement, as I have done, and a down right insult. As far as I am concerned, you do not deserve a reply.

However, I will just to take a cheap shot at your 160K debt from an undergrad degree (which everyone seems to have in their back pockets now-a-days). As well as the fact that your school isn't ivy but you sure paid like it was. 🙂

Don't get me wrong, I paid through the nose for my education, but not 40K a year. 160K is an outrageous price for some one to baby me and spoon me at night--hope you got a reach around. 😀

What 40k a year at a small, non-ivy school buys you:
1) Spoon feeding; 15 kids in a class and 90 questions before the material is even finished being lectured (God I hate that).
2) A slower, more broken down lecture--some thing you often see in a remedial high school math class.
3) 160K in debt.
4) Unstandardized exams--(i.e. at your school there weren't 40 different versions of the very same exam being given out to 1000 students at the very same time--not to mention being packed in an uncomfortable, loud, open gym to take it.)
5) Your grade depends on the kid sitting next to you. For all you know he may be the next S. Hawkins. Guess daddy's legacy can't pull me through...sucks.

So, thank you for moving the whole thread completely off topic. I'm sure everyone thanks you for your hostile comment as well.

-PmP

 

[PossiblyCrazy]

Let's all please keep on topic. This thread is supposed to be helpful for those of us either making a decision to go to MCPHS-Worcester or are about to go to the school. All the negative and positive comments regarding the school are helpful. Thanks to those, and keep them coming.

Just a side note. How do you, jbuprepharm, not know he/she is talking about MCPHS-W, just look at the title of the thread....

 

[Jbuprepharm]

I'll respond briefly, first of all, my education was not 40K a year, it was 20K, I do not have a penny of debt from undergrad (scholarships, grants, parents, me working = no debt). I was not spoon fed anything, I was expected to learn the material and be able to apply it on an exam. Some of my tests were standardized, some were not. Also, I don't see anywhere, where my post was nasty... unless you mistook the phrase "thread jack off"
I think your idea of a private university is much different from the one I attended (and maybe that's the case for schools in the north east, I don't know)

PossiblyCrazy, lets see, how could I not know she was talking about MCPHS-W? because of this statement "Originally Posted by pmp85
I have examples to prove my statements:
A bunch my high school friends attended smaller private institutions across the US and studied the sciences (biology, chemistry, and physics). "

Maybe before you imply that I'm stupid, you should read carefully to make sure you don't implicate yourself

 

[PossiblyCrazy]

Look. Just play nice. I wasn't implying you are stupid. Relax. MCPHS-Worcester is in the tiltle of the thread. All I'm saying is that before you post to a thread, understand what the thread is all about...that's it. Simple. Let's stick to the thread please....

 

[eddie269]

Sheesh, with all the ego and bad mouthing, it's starting to look like the pre-MD forums. 😀

Anyways, I've been doing research on pharmacy schools for almost 4 years now. On SDN, through advisors, speaking with other current students, reading on the internet, etc. Certain schools will always have a reputation stuck to them. (i.e. UCSF = top pharmacy school, Hawaii HICP = biggest scam in history, etc).

MCPHS-W has ALWAYS been known to me as having angry students year after year. Either they have a way of accepting babies who aren't ready to a professional program EVERY year (which I doubt) or the school has a problem with its professors, grading systems, curriculum, or all of the above (which seems more likely to me).

I'm sure every school has their share of cry babies but it seems like no other school has its students post about how bad it is. And from the roll call lists, we do have students from all over the US at almost every single p-school, yet we don't hear many negatives from them.

Every year I see about 2-3 new threads like this pop up from different students from MCPHS-W (and ONLY Worcester, not Boston). Something's got to be wrong if you ask me.

 

[Jbuprepharm]

No problem, just found the statement somewhat inflammatory. But since this thread has nothing to do with me. I will leave it be.

Honestly, with regard to the topic, if it's true that they accept more stupid than they can handle so they can weed people out seems shady. Most every pharm and med school I've heard of will do anything it can to keep people enrolled. Retention rates are generally considered a good thing

 

[torius71]

Why did they give you a zero? Is there someone that you can appeal to?

Here's an update. I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner with specifics on how I received a zero on my physical assessment lab practical, but the reason is that I didn't have specifics. All I knew prior to today was that I left my practical last week feeling relatively confident that I had did ok. I was asked to perform and verbalize cardiac auscultation of the patient. I thought I lucked out because I knew the test really well. So I performed the test. I didn't verbalize the four valve areas while listening to them (mitral, tricuspid, aortic, and pulmonic) I was really nervous and as soon as I left, I realized I probably should have said them. Fine, so I was thinking I would get a 60 or 70 (60 is passing). The professor in what was I think a way of helping me asked after I had finished what I was looking for. I said that when I was listening to the upper valves I was listening for the S2 sounds and when listening to the lower valves I was listening for the S1 sounds, while pointing again to where I listened. I reported the patient to have no abnormalities or murmurs within the valves. They said thank you, and I left.
Today we were given time to look over our grading form in front of a professor. The form took off out of 10 total points, 1 point for each valve area not mentioned. Fine, I'm starting with a 60 but I kind of expected that. Then the professor took of 1 point for not saying I was looking for the specific "lub" and "dub" sounds. Fine, I am down to a 50. Now, I see that the professor had originally award me the final 5 points for performing the technique of the exam perfect (which was perfect by the way). She however crossed out the 5 points and gave me a zero here as well because she said that when she asked me what I was looking for I said the S1 and S2 correctly but pointed to the 3rd interspace, not the 4th (which is not true by the way) which I had originally pointed to correctly. And so just like that I am left with no points and I need start the course with only 70% available to me because the practical was 30% of our grade. There are about 10 other horror stories like this at Worcester, with a total of 40 failing grades. I begin the appeal process on Monday so I will keep you updated, but if I don't win it will be very difficult to pass this class. We are also having a student government meeting to see what we can do for everybody, not just me.
I don't think this professor had it out for me or anything because this happened to so many of us. I just think the grading system is unfair. Instead of having students start with zeros when they walk into the practical and work their way up to the highest grade possible based on what they did correctly, the students start with 10's and are penalized for every little (and I mean little) thing without considering what the students did correctly. It is wrong. I didn't blow this practical off. I started hard just like I always do. I did not learn 0 percent of the material in this course over the last 8 weeks. This grade is completely not indicative of what I or any other student knew and understood. The majority of my class agrees (EVEN THE ONES WHO RECEIVED DECENT GRADES) and that’s why we are having a meeting to see what we can do about it. MCP-Worcester has a history of ignoring the students and just blaming them when really bad F*** up's like this have happened in the past. I will keep you updated.

 

[PossiblyCrazy]

Here's an update. I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner with specifics on how I received a zero on my physical assessment lab practical, but the reason is that I didn't have specifics. All I knew prior to today was that I left my practical last week feeling relatively confident that I had did ok. I was asked to perform and verbalize cardiac auscultation of the patient. I thought I lucked out because I knew the test really well. So I performed the test. I didn't verbalize the four valve areas while listening to them (mitral, tricuspid, aortic, and pulmonic) I was really nervous and as soon as I left, I realized I probably should have said them. Fine, so I was thinking I would get a 60 or 70 (60 is passing). The professor in what was I think a way of helping me asked after I had finished what I was looking for. I said that when I was listening to the upper valves I was listening for the S2 sounds and when listening to the lower valves I was listening for the S1 sounds, while pointing again to where I listened. I reported the patient to have no abnormalities or murmurs within the valves. They said thank you, and I left.
Today we were given time to look over our grading form in front of a professor. The form took off out of 10 total points, 1 point for each valve area not mentioned. Fine, I'm starting with a 60 but I kind of expected that. Then the professor took of 1 point for not saying I was looking for the specific "lub" and "dub" sounds. Fine, I am down to a 50. Now, I see that the professor had originally award me the final 5 points for performing the technique of the exam perfect (which was perfect by the way). She however crossed out the 5 points and gave me a zero here as well because she said that when she asked me what I was looking for I said the S1 and S2 correctly but pointed to the 3rd interspace, not the 4th (which is not true by the way) which I had originally pointed to correctly. And so just like that I am left with no points and I need start the course with only 70% available to me because the practical was 30% of our grade. There are about 10 other horror stories like this at Worcester, with a total of 40 failing grades. I begin the appeal process on Monday so I will keep you updated, but if I don't win it will be very difficult to pass this class. We are also having a student government meeting to see what we can do for everybody, not just me.
I don't think this professor had it out for me or anything because this happened to so many of us. I just think the grading system is unfair. Instead of having students start with zeros when they walk into the practical and work their way up to the highest grade possible based on what they did correctly, the students start with 10's and are penalized for every little (and I mean little) thing without considering what the students did correctly. It is wrong. I didn't blow this practical off. I started hard just like I always do. I did not learn 0 percent of the material in this course over the last 8 weeks. This grade is completely not indicative of what I or any other student knew and understood. The majority of my class agrees (EVEN THE ONES WHO RECEIVED DECENT GRADES) and that’s why we are having a meeting to see what we can do about it. MCP-Worcester has a history of ignoring the students and just blaming them when really bad F*** up's like this have happened in the past. I will keep you updated.

I am truly sorry to hear this. I hope everything works out for you. Good luck on your appeal.

 

[twester]

Here's an update. I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner with specifics on how I received a zero on my physical assessment lab practical, but the reason is that I didn't have specifics. All I knew prior to today was that I left my practical last week feeling relatively confident that I had did ok. I was asked to perform and verbalize cardiac auscultation of the patient. I thought I lucked out because I knew the test really well. So I performed the test. I didn't verbalize the four valve areas while listening to them (mitral, tricuspid, aortic, and pulmonic) I was really nervous and as soon as I left, I realized I probably should have said them. Fine, so I was thinking I would get a 60 or 70 (60 is passing). The professor in what was I think a way of helping me asked after I had finished what I was looking for. I said that when I was listening to the upper valves I was listening for the S2 sounds and when listening to the lower valves I was listening for the S1 sounds, while pointing again to where I listened. I reported the patient to have no abnormalities or murmurs within the valves. They said thank you, and I left.
Today we were given time to look over our grading form in front of a professor. The form took off out of 10 total points, 1 point for each valve area not mentioned. Fine, I'm starting with a 60 but I kind of expected that. Then the professor took of 1 point for not saying I was looking for the specific "lub" and "dub" sounds. Fine, I am down to a 50. Now, I see that the professor had originally award me the final 5 points for performing the technique of the exam perfect (which was perfect by the way). She however crossed out the 5 points and gave me a zero here as well because she said that when she asked me what I was looking for I said the S1 and S2 correctly but pointed to the 3rd interspace, not the 4th (which is not true by the way) which I had originally pointed to correctly. And so just like that I am left with no points and I need start the course with only 70% available to me because the practical was 30% of our grade. There are about 10 other horror stories like this at Worcester, with a total of 40 failing grades. I begin the appeal process on Monday so I will keep you updated, but if I don't win it will be very difficult to pass this class. We are also having a student government meeting to see what we can do for everybody, not just me.
I don't think this professor had it out for me or anything because this happened to so many of us. I just think the grading system is unfair. Instead of having students start with zeros when they walk into the practical and work their way up to the highest grade possible based on what they did correctly, the students start with 10's and are penalized for every little (and I mean little) thing without considering what the students did correctly. It is wrong. I didn't blow this practical off. I started hard just like I always do. I did not learn 0 percent of the material in this course over the last 8 weeks. This grade is completely not indicative of what I or any other student knew and understood. The majority of my class agrees (EVEN THE ONES WHO RECEIVED DECENT GRADES) and that’s why we are having a meeting to see what we can do about it. MCP-Worcester has a history of ignoring the students and just blaming them when really bad F*** up's like this have happened in the past. I will keep you updated.

Yeah, this does sound really outrageous since I've never seen a pharmacist with a stethoscope. I know we use them next year, but I don't think we'll be trained to give physicals or anything. This sounds really out of proportion.

Good luck to you.

 

[pmp85]

Yeah, this does sound really outrageous since I've never seen a pharmacist with a stethoscope. I know we use them next year, but I don't think we'll be trained to give physicals or anything. This sounds really out of proportion.

Good luck to you.

Agreed. I'm sorry man. 🙁

 

[MR. C]

We are talking about PHARMACY school here right? not med school...

That seems like a really harsh way of grading IMO. If you are there and awake I dont see how you should get a 0 for any test/assignment. I hope you get this situation fixed for yourself and your classmates.

 

[DrugDealer]

Anyway, what is the passing rate of the NAPLEX from MCPHS-Worcester?

I am a P2 at MCP-Worcester. Due to all the recent issues, one of our faculty members asked for student feedback earlier this week about where we thought this disconnect was occurring. He did mention that, on the bright side, if we can get through the program, the school knows we will pass the Naplex. He said the pass rate was 9 points above the national average. I then asked if this was a first time pass rate, or an eventual pass rate. He claimed it was first time. I still have my doubts.

 

[TheHillCrew]

I am at odds with this school because I had a good friend go there and graduate in 2003. He has never stated anything negative about the school, professors, etc... If he stated something negative than I would definitely be cautious about going there. But what really disturbs me about this school is that is seems to be the ONLY school that produces negative comments on this forum. You have to look at the facts. The school has a highest drop out rate that I have ever heard of in pharmacy programs. I have a feeling that they might accept a handful of borderline students each year just to make some additional revenue. If they accept 35 students that they know will stay in the program for two years and than drop out that produces significant revenue for their school.
35 students: 70K/YR for 2 Years.
35 students X 70K = 2.5 million smackers.
This is not taking other fees into account... housing etc...
Sounds like they are running more of a business there than an academic institution. MCPHS was one of my top choices but I am going to seriously reconsider.

 

[DrugDealer]

Just to clarify for prospective students what this PA class (and the exams!!) are all about...

So each Friday morning we have class/lab for 3 hours. We learn how to assess various body systems so that we can understand patient charts better. For example, when you see "Lungs CTAB" on a chart or case, you know it means the lungs are clear to ausculatation bilaterally. But...what does it really mean? How did the doctor determine this? These are the skills we are learning. Each week we cover a particular organ/body system and learn 5-10 tests/skills for that system.

So our practical covered 6 weeks of material (6 systems). We were scheduled for 5 minute slots with one of 4 or 5 instructors. We basically pulled a piece of paper out of a hat that told us what test to perform or what reflex/response to assess, and we had 5 minutes to do whatever we thought was appropriate. So...we were basically graded first on choosing the right test (there was only one right test for each) and then on how well we performed that test. If you chose the wrong test, but performed it correctly, that was worth nothing. Some people may be up in arms about that, but I don't know, it might be fair.

For each test, there was a very specific scoring rubric of what they were looking for. There were 10 total points, but each component was weighted differently, based on how important the instructors felt it was. We did not know at the time what the scoring was, but did have to opportunity to see the score sheets today.

For example, my test was to perform the inspection portion of the cardiac exam. They were looking to see if I checked for JVD (3.5 points!), edema (1.5 points), assessed the nail beds (1 point), assessed mental status (1 point), looked at patient's general color for cyanosis and jaundice (1 point), assessed respiratory status (1 point) and generally/initially assessed my patient for NAD (1 point). Each component was all or nothing...I forgot about respiration, so I got 9 out of 10. I explained everything I was doing...for example, when checking the nails beds I said to my patient, "I am now going to press on your thumbnail until it turns white. Now I will release it and observe the color change. It quickly returned to a normal color, which indicates good peripheral perfusion and hence, good cardiac output."

I believe scoring was fair because there were standardized grading criteria for each test, no matter the instructor, and it was all or nothing--there was no partial credit left to the instructor's whim. I do not think it was fair, though, that they would not tell us anything about the format of the exam beforehand. They would not answer questions about it, they would only reply that all the info we needed was in our syllabus. What was the big deal about keeping the format so secretive? We didn't know if our whole grade would hinge on performing 1 test or if we would have to perform multiple tests from multiple systems or multiple tests (maybe all the tests) from a single system. We also didn't know if they would tell us what test to perform, or if we would have to read a little patient case and decide for ourselves what we would like to know.

The really scary part was knowing that just these few minutes were worth 30% of our grade. We have another practical for the final (it will cover only 5 lectures, not 6), plus a written final. These are each worth 30%, with our weekly attendence at lab making up the remaining 10%. So students who failed the midtern, especially those that got a zero, have such a small chance of passing this one-credit course. But, without it, they cannot go on rotations and will be held back a year. My main complaint, even though I did fine, was that 30% of our grade comes from performing a single exam. What if you get the one exam out of 30 that you did not study? They should at least have us perform 2 or 3 tests.

 

[cdpiano27]

This type of testing really stinks! It does seem like it is a game of chance more than anything else, since you do not even know what they are looking for in the first place.

How do you know everything that they want done? Especially that the grading is not made clear to you before the test. That is really unfair that you do not even know how to study for something like this. And you are loaning $40,000 a year to go to this school.

Are other schools like this?

 

[eddie269]

I have a feeling that they might accept a handful of borderline students each year just to make some additional revenue. If they accept 35 students that they know will stay in the program for two years and than drop out that produces significant revenue for their school.
35 students: 70K/YR for 2 Years.
35 students X 70K = 2.5 million smackers.
This is not taking other fees into account... housing etc...
Sounds like they are running more of a business there than an academic institution.

I don't think your logic works here. If a student gets kicked out, the school itself loses money. Those 35 students who drop out could've been replaced with 35 non-drop outs who would've paid the 3rd year tuition. Plus the 2 years worth of teaching is "wasted" and no one wins. Trust me, schools want you to stay. Not to mention the wear and tear of labs and materials used, testing time wasted, office hours wasted, etc.


Also, Thanks for breaking down the grading for us. That's crazy how an extra year (time, tuition, cost of living, opportunity costs of 1 yr of working, embarrassment and stress) can rely on a 5 minute test. WOW!

 

[torius71]

I don't think your logic works here. If a student gets kicked out, the school itself loses money. Those 35 students who drop out could've been replaced with 35 non-drop outs who would've paid the 3rd year tuition. Plus the 2 years worth of teaching is "wasted" and no one wins. Trust me, schools want you to stay. Not to mention the wear and tear of labs and materials used, testing time wasted, office hours wasted, etc.

You are making a common mistake when it comes to a schools retention rate. The way you are thinking about the process is applicable to many American schools. However, pharmacy schools are VERY different. The amount of rotation placement contracts a pharmacy school has limits its ability to accept as many students as they want. This is where MCPHS-Worcester manipulates the system. You stated that "those 35 students who drop out could've been replaced with 35 non-drop outs who would've paid the 3rd year tuition." What if the school never had the capability to place those students on rotations because they accepted more students initially, than they could place on rotations! MCP-Worcester only accepts those students for the sole purpose of making an extra $30,000- $60,000 per student. I do think you are overestimating how many students they accept over, however this business plan works flawlessly because the school can always say that the students were not performing up to par. The president of MCPHS is a business genious who made all his money with flawless operations such as this one. However, this is an academic setting, not a corporate setting and the laws regulate these two areas very differently. This is a violation of Standard 17 of the ACCREDITATION STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES FOR THE PROFESSIONAL PROGRAM IN PHARMACY LEADING TO THE DOCTOR OF PHARMACY DEGREE.

 

[pmp85]

You are making a common mistake when it comes to a schools retention rate. The way you are thinking about the process is applicable to many American schools. However, pharmacy schools are VERY different. The amount of rotation placement contracts a pharmacy school has limits its ability to accept as many students as they want. This is where MCPHS-Worcester manipulates the system. You stated that "those 35 students who drop out could've been replaced with 35 non-drop outs who would've paid the 3rd year tuition." What if the school never had the capability to place those students on rotations because they accepted more students initially, than they could place on rotations! MCP-Worcester only accepts those students for the sole purpose of making an extra $30,000- $60,000 per student. I do think you are overestimating how many students they accept over, however this business plan works flawlessly because the school can always say that the students were not performing up to par. The president of MCPHS is a business genious who made all his money with flawless operations such as this one. However, this is an academic setting, not a corporate setting and the laws regulate these two areas very differently. This is a violation of Standard 17 of the ACCREDITATION STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES FOR THE PROFESSIONAL PROGRAM IN PHARMACY LEADING TO THE DOCTOR OF PHARMACY DEGREE.

Hey,

You seem to speak of the rotations as being the limiting factor. So to clarify/verify, what you are stating is that that MCP knowingly does not have enough rotational positions for all the entering students--Correct? Does that mean that the individuals at the top of the class get first pick? That would only seem fair to me if there were limited positions.

If that is the case, did you have to go out and find your own rotation? What happens if you want to come home (outside of MA) to do rotations/residency, does that increase or decrease your chances of staying (flying under the drop out radar)?

If residencies are the judgment factor of making people stay or leave I could just have my family members (a few very prestigious MD's/surgeons) find me a rotation here where I live.

Please advise.

-PmP

 

[J&J'sVette]

The school has a problem with its professors, grading systems, curriculum, or all of the above (which seems more likely to me).

I believe it is all of the above as I am a current P1 & would have gone elsewhere if I had known all the problems with this school. At the beginning of IPC II this semester, we were told that they were accredited to graduate 138 students per YEAR (it might be 134) so please don't quote me. So what does that tell you? Do the math. It is 72% of the class!!! That is for the Worcester-Manchester combined campus alone!!! We started out with 190 students last fall. The other 28% of the class is MONEY in their pockets. They will more than likely continue to accept students in this pattern. Last summer they bought the remaining buildings on the block & will have to pay for them someway.
By the way, this instructor is no longer there but, out of 150 students, 2/3rds either received a D or F on the Pharmaceutics final. It was 17 questions long. Told to study the opposite of what we needed to know. Go figure. Good luck in your choice of schools.

 

[eddie269]

HOLD UP! HOLD THE FREAK UP!!! Are you guys telling me, that MCPHS knowingly accepts more students than they can handle, with intent of purposely failing them out before their 3rd year rotations just to make extra money??? 😱 😱 😱 Do you know how serious this claim is or are you just pulling this out of your BLAH?! 😀

Now, I highly doubt a school is legally able to do that since that means no matter how well a class does theoretically, ~20-30% of the class cannot and will not graduate. Imagine if almost everyone got 100% because they're just super smart, but 20 students only have a 90% averages. You're saying they will have to "fail out" those 90% students because there aren't enough rotation sites. Do you have any proof about # of rotation sites available (or lack thereof?)

I only question because this claim sounds ridiculous (and shocking).

No, that claim cannot be true. ACPE states clearly that a school must have enough rotation sites for the amount of students they accept. That's why other schools like Hawaii (HICP) never got pre-candidate status because out of MANY things, they simply didn't have enough rotation sites.

MCPHS is one of the longest accredited schools in the US with ACPE checking in on each school every 4-5 years. I highly doubt this "scam" you guys bring up can hold true for so long. But if it is, then GAWD DAMN! good thing I ain't going there.

 

[TheHillCrew]

Well if the school has a consistent drop out rate of 30% and they do not make the necessary changes in the interview process to recruit students with the highest academic potential than it shows that there is a pre-meditation and acceptance of failure. As posters have stated, the school places blame on the students not the curriculum or faculty for academic deficiencies. MCPHS has accepted failure in their program and are unwilling to make beneficial changes to ensure future success. I dont really want to be a part of an academic community where failure is expected, ingnored, and accepted.

 

[astevens]

The school has a problem with its professors, grading systems, curriculum, or all of the above (which seems more likely to me).

I believe it is all of the above as I am a current P1 & would have gone elsewhere if I had known all the problems with this school. At the beginning of IPC II this semester, we were told that they were accredited to graduate 138 students per YEAR (it might be 134) so please don't quote me. So what does that tell you? Do the math. It is 72% of the class!!! That is for the Worcester-Manchester combined campus alone!!! We started out with 190 students last fall. The other 28% of the class is MONEY in their pockets. They will more than likely continue to accept students in this pattern. Last summer they bought the remaining buildings on the block & will have to pay for them someway.
By the way, this instructor is no longer there but, out of 150 students, 2/3rds either received a D or F on the Pharmaceutics final. It was 17 questions long. Told to study the opposite of what we needed to know. Go figure. Good luck in your choice of schools.

Just to Clarify: I think Dean Malloy said that the accredited graduation rate was 135 for Worcester and 35 for Manchester. We still have more students than that- but he also said that if more than this number are eligible for graduation, they will still all graduate. I'm not sure of the fine details, but he assured us that if we can all graduate if we made the grades.

Also- a lot of people do their rotations out of state- so while numbers are limited- they generally have a good portion out of the class out of state.

 

[TheHillCrew]

http://www.studentsreview.com/MA/MCPAHS_comments.html
Some more great reviews by MCPHS students. This schools reputation does not look that good. I was reading some reviews on this site and students were talking about how their class sizes were 170+ and we know that they like to graduate about 130. Like I stated before, sounds like failure is accepted and even encouraged at MCPHS in order to maximize revenue.

Torius- do you have any other classmates that can offer their opinion on this forum.??

As I stated before, I had a friend go to MCPHS WOrcester and graduate in 2003. He has said absolutely nothing negative about this school and he is a good friend of mine so if he had anything negative to say he would tell me. I am just really confused at this point.

 

[lvp0021]

I am so sorry to hear about your situation Torius... I hope you can win the appeal process and give my prayer to all the students at MCP Worcester. Initially, I was told by the interviewer that the format they have currently for therapeutics "is the best one, according to studies, to stimulate and encourage student to study the material", which seems to me now to be a lie. Like the other person who is a teacher in pharm school said, there is no way you can absorb therapeutics effeciently without at least a few lectures or guidance from professors who have the required knowldge.

 

[PhatPharmD]

http://www.studentsreview.com/MA/MCPAHS_comments.html
Some more great reviews by MCPHS students. This schools reputation does not look that good. I was reading some reviews on this site and students were talking about how their class sizes were 170+ and we know that they like to graduate about 130. Like I stated before, sounds like failure is accepted and even encouraged at MCPHS in order to maximize revenue.

Torius- do you have any other classmates that can offer their opinion on this forum.??

As I stated before, I had a friend go to MCPHS WOrcester and graduate in 2003. He has said absolutely nothing negative about this school and he is a good friend of mine so if he had anything negative to say he would tell me. I am just really confused at this point.

I am torius' and DrugDealer's classmate at MCP-Worcester. And it saddens me that all the posts in the link you provided ring very true. This school's major problems are exactly the same they were when those posts were made. Therapeutics is the same exact mess it was and the "disconnect" DrugDealer was referring to is a huge problem. I believe it's due to most students' realizing that most of the faculty just doesn't care if you pass or fail and what is worse is that it’s because a predetermined number of people have to fail anyway. I don't know why your friend had nothing negative to say about this school but my guess is that some people are just eternal optimists. I have invested so much of my life, time and money into this career that on some days I too find it difficult to face the reality that coming to this school was a big mistake.

As far as astevens remark that "most students go out of state for their rotations" is true biut it doesn't help with the limited rotation spots that are available here, in MA. Our class just completed our rotation selections and you can only do a max of 2 out of sate rotations, the other three have to be done with their preceptors in MA (internal medicine and ambulatory care). If those spots are limited to a certain amount of students they can't just decide to graduate more than that number. Just remember how many pharmacy schools are in this area competing for preceptors: URI, Northeastern, MCP-Boston, Worcester, Manchester, and UCONN. There are only so many hospitals/healthcare institutions in the area that can provide ACPE approved internal medicine and ambulatory care sites.

 

[cangelilli]

I am a P1 at MCPHS Worcester and I have written on this subject before...I think maybe it is hard to understand in general how hard Pharmacy school really is, especially if you are in an accelerated program. People will fail, it is a ton of work, we do pretty much study all the time, but you have to look at the end result. And if you are willing to put in the extra effort to grauate a year earlier then this school is fine. I understand failing a class can make someone angry and want to bash a school, I am sure I would feel the same way. But, I don't think it is fair to tell you all not to come to this "horrible" school. I haven't gotten straight a's and I have worked my butt off. It is just something I have had to accept. My teachers are outstanding and want to help you suceed, if you take the time to talk to them and go to tutoring sessions. No one is going to hand you passing grades, if you are having trouble- get help. This is no different than undergrad. I am not saying you should change your opinion of the school because of me, or any other single person, but be careful what you believe and do not think it will be an easy ride. If you have any questions feel free to pm me, and good luck with your decisions...

 

[KellyBean]

It seems to me that the P1s favor the school, only when they become P2s, then it becomes a different story...hmmm...

 

[aboveliquidice]

Cardinal rule - go to a school that wants you there... Why would you want to go to a school with a 30 % drop out rate??? Go pick a school with a 95% retention - you will still get your pharm D - without the anxiety of impending doom...

~above~

 

[Shadowstar]

Cardinal rule - go to a school that wants you there... Why would you want to go to a school with a 30 % drop out rate??? Go pick a school with a 95% retention - you will still get your pharm D - without the anxiety of impending doom...

~above~

Yeah 2nd year is a killer.

BTW it was 10 Kg of percocet, not 10g . 🙄

 

[PhatPharmD]

I am a P1 at MCPHS Worcester and I have written on this subject before...I think maybe it is hard to understand in general how hard Pharmacy school really is, especially if you are in an accelerated program. People will fail, it is a ton of work, we do pretty much study all the time, but you have to look at the end result. And if you are willing to put in the extra effort to grauate a year earlier then this school is fine. I understand failing a class can make someone angry and want to bash a school, I am sure I would feel the same way. But, I don't think it is fair to tell you all not to come to this "horrible" school. I haven't gotten straight a's and I have worked my butt off. It is just something I have had to accept. My teachers are outstanding and want to help you suceed, if you take the time to talk to them and go to tutoring sessions. No one is going to hand you passing grades, if you are having trouble- get help. This is no different than undergrad. I am not saying you should change your opinion of the school because of me, or any other single person, but be careful what you believe and do not think it will be an easy ride. If you have any questions feel free to pm me, and good luck with your decisions...

As I said before, the first year at Worcester is a lot of work but most of the classes are reasonable because course structure and professors are more reasonable. There's a BIG difference between how the pharmaceutical science department (mostly P1 classes) and pharmacy practice department (mostly P2 and P3 classes: PPP lab, Physical Assessment, Therapeutics I, II, III and etc.) run their courses. As a P1 you get an "undergrad" approach and as a P2 you get thrown under the train!

 

[brasilia01]

Yeah 2nd year is a killer.

BTW it was 10 Kg of percocet, not 10g . 🙄

What does BTW mean? Just a little confused.

 

[smallkitty00]

BTW = by the way.

 

[torius71]

MCP-Worcester is a 3 year program that is very demanding due to time constraints and workload. However the program recently underwent a switch from a quarterly to trimester format and our class is the first to actually go through the new format. As can be expected many things are not yet worked out and there are a lot of problems.[/COLOR]
The main problem however is that multiple faculty members refuse to see this as a big issue and as a result a class that started with 164 students is now down to 123! This reasonably raised much concern and a letter was sent to the student body last semester that basically shifted all the blame on us. I don't want to waste your time on all the boring details but suffice it to say that we were told our study habits aren't good enough and we must improve because nothing was going to change!

I completely agree with you Phat Pharm. Education is a two way street. Both the students and faculty must take responsibility for success. With failure being accepted as a part of the program here at Worcester, it can be very difficult to succeed. I also feel obligated to tell people how poor this school is. I don't know what more I can do if people don't listen.

Apparently I am not alone however, check out this description of MCPHS at Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_College_of_Pharmacy_and_Health_Sciences

 

[TheHillCrew]

MCPHS is using the accelerated program to their advantage. If they were a four year program they could never get away with a 30% drop out rate. When students drop out they just label it as "they couldnt handle an accelerated course load." There is something wrong when you consistently have a drop out rate of 30%. They have no intention of remedying this problem which as I stated before, shows pre-meditation in failing students. Another thing, when you dont pass a class at MCPHS you have to stay back the entire year. I just feel bad for the students that invest so much to get to this point and than they drop out. Many students have four year degree going into the program and than they drop out after two years at MCPHS, that is a total of 6+ years wasted away and thousands and thousands of dollars.

 

[astevens]

Apparently I am not alone however, check out this description of MCPHS at Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_College_of_Pharmacy_and_Health_Sciences

Just to keep everyone honest- Wikipedia is not reliable, anyone can edit thier pages be it me, you, the dean, or whatever.
Anyway- if this forum realy concerns any potential students- I suggest you call the school and talk to someone. That the best way to find out what is really going on in my opinion.
astevens

 

[TBS5280]

I agree on both parts.

 

[torius71]

Anyway- if this forum really concerns any potential students- I suggest you call the school and talk to someone. That the best way to find out what is really going on in my opinion.
astevens

I thought that one of the purposes of this forum was to inform students without a biased voice? Let me tell you what you can expect to hear if you call any school. "Our pharmacy program and students are consistently praised by many for its outstanding academic service in and out of the classroom." (As most faculty and deans associated with any school will tell you in the application process) I think they get it out of "School Admissions for Dummies".
IF YOU WANT TO TAKE ANY ADVICE ON A SCHOOL, ONLY CONSIDER STUDENTS ADVICE! I am by no means saying take only one students advice. That route can get you in just as much trouble. But, I was told on my interview here at Worcester that, "the only students we lose from the program here at Worcester are to family issues" Say what you want about this school but that is a BIG FAT LIE! Look how many students are posting here, warning against coming to MCP-Worcester and look how many are praising it.
BTW, I would strongly advise coming here and speaking to students personally when making such an important choice in life. That will tell you a lot more than the faculty will!

 

[DrugDealer]

Now, I highly doubt a school is legally able to do that since that means no matter how well a class does theoretically, ~20-30% of the class cannot and will not graduate. Imagine if almost everyone got 100% because they're just super smart, but 20 students only have a 90% averages. You're saying they will have to "fail out" those 90% students because there aren't enough rotation sites.

As unfair as that may be, I don't think it's as unrealistic as it sounds...what about schools that grade strictly on a Bell Curve? Even if everyone does as well as eddie says, some people still have to fail to create that curve. It would just be shifted far to the right of your normal distribution.

And before everyone freaks out, I just want to clarify that I am not saying they grade on a curve here at MCP...I'm just throwing the concept out for argument's sake.

 

[astevens]

I thought that one of the purposes of this forum was to inform students without a biased voice? Let me tell you what you can expect to hear if you call any school. "Our pharmacy program and students are consistently praised by many for its outstanding academic service in and out of the classroom." (As most faculty and deans associated with any school will tell you in the application process) I think they get it out of "School Admissions for Dummies".
IF YOU WANT TO TAKE ANY ADVICE ON A SCHOOL, ONLY CONSIDER STUDENTS ADVICE! I am by no means saying take only one students advice. That route can get you in just as much trouble. But, I was told on my interview here at Worcester that, "the only students we lose from the program here at Worcester are to family issues" Say what you want about this school but that is a BIG FAT LIE! Look how many students are posting here, warning against coming to MCP-Worcester and look how many are praising it.
BTW, I would strongly advise coming here and speaking to students personally when making such an important choice in life. That will tell you a lot more than the faculty will!

I meant with this specific issue. I know you are frustrated with your situation, and I definelty understand... I'm just saying that all of us as students are biased one way or the other too (and the title of this forum certainly isn't free of bias!). Regardless, the admissions office is there to help- I would say call- if they give you the run around, ask if there are students that you could talk to. I do definetly agree that talking with students personally while here will give you a lot of insight. I personally like the program (although it does have its moments, and I am still in my first year), but as I have said many a time- this program is not for every one.

and with that its back to they studying😛

 

[torius71]

I'm just saying that all of us as students are biased one way or the other too (and the title of this forum certainly isn't free of bias!).

Not every opinion is a bias.

 

[cdpiano27]

Now, is the 30% weed-out worth it? Do you become a better pharamacist if you survive? For example is the passing rate on Naplex 100% out of the 70% remaining?

I think if you survive a tough and scary program, you will be a better pharmacist. My aunt went to MCPHS-Boston in the 80s and it had even a HIGHER dropout rate in the 5-year BS program at the time. And she said the pharmacy practice professors were often the culprit even back then!!

So, yes this is a notorious school from what I heard from my aunt!!

 

[honeykrown]

Now, is the 30% weed-out worth it? Do you become a better pharamacist if you survive? For example is the passing rate on Naplex 100% out of the 70% remaining?

I think if you survive a tough and scary program, you will be a better pharmacist. My aunt went to MCPHS-Boston in the 80s and it had even a HIGHER dropout rate in the 5-year BS program at the time. And she said the pharmacy practice professors were often the culprit even back then!!

So, yes this is a notorious school from what I heard from my aunt!!

Surviving doesnt make u a better pharmacist. One is that people would just study to pass the teachers exams and not necessarily meaning they understand what they are reading.

And from what i've heard even though u know what you are doing few points make u fail that doesnt mean u r not a better pharmacist but to the teachers the little points u missed wont get u ahead and if they have to compulsory fail 30%, whoever gets failed doesnt mean they are bad but they are not just the luck of the draw.

And I've learnt to listen to students more than the instructors who would not want to slander one another, and another thing i;ve learnt is that most schools would favor their instructors rather than the students.

 

[devoteduser]

I meant with this specific issue. I know you are frustrated with your situation, and I definelty understand... I'm just saying that all of us as students are biased one way or the other too (and the title of this forum certainly isn't free of bias!). Regardless, the admissions office is there to help- I would say call- if they give you the run around, ask if there are students that you could talk to. I do definetly agree that talking with students personally while here will give you a lot of insight. I personally like the program (although it does have its moments, and I am still in my first year), but as I have said many a time- this program is not for every one.

and with that its back to they studying😛

Hi,
what type of student would MCP worcester be suitable for (if it is not for the avg pharmacy applicant)?

thanks in advance.

 

[nhimimi]

i would agree with ppl who have negative feedback to school in worcester, if it is possible go to a 4 yr school 'cause if you fail one class you basically have 4 yrs of more stressful time

 

[PossiblyCrazy]

i would agree with ppl who have negative feedback to school in worcester, if it is possible go to a 4 yr school 'cause if you fail one class you basically have 4 yrs of more stressful time

What?!?!

 

[nightcrawleRx]

What?!?!

I think they mean 4 years total...implying that should you have to retake a course you will fall behind a year and in the end be there for a total of 4 years. Honestly though, this whole thread is getting ridiculous...I've committed to Worcester, I'll be there next year and I'll do the best I can, just as I would at any other school. I'm certainly not going into the fall thinking I will fail out...will it be somewhere in the back of my mind? Of course, how could it not after all this but maybe that little bit of fear will be what pushes me to do better. For those of us that will be at Worcester next year, we should all just stop worrying. The worrying isn't going to get us anywhere at this point and plenty of current students have had good things to say. I'm not saying the claims in this thread are completely false but after hearing both good and bad things I would be completely fine with the truth lying somewhere in the middle. After all, no school is going to be perfect.

 

[pmp85]

For those of you interested in the unbiased statistics of MCP-Worcester please view their website.

The internal assessment is easily found--Click Login (in the upper right hand corner of the main pg); Click MyMCP; and Click on the link for the April 2007 Internal Assessment to download the pdf.

People seem to be heavily skewing the statistics--primarily the attrition rate, which is stated to be 19%--Not 30%!

-PmP

 

[PossiblyCrazy]

I think they mean 4 years total...implying that should you have to retake a course you will fall behind a year and in the end be there for a total of 4 years. Honestly though, this whole thread is getting ridiculous...I've committed to Worcester, I'll be there next year and I'll do the best I can, just as I would at any other school. I'm certainly not going into the fall thinking I will fail out...will it be somewhere in the back of my mind? Of course, how could it not after all this but maybe that little bit of fear will be what pushes me to do better. For those of us that will be at Worcester next year, we should all just stop worrying. The worrying isn't going to get us anywhere at this point and plenty of current students have had good things to say. I'm not saying the claims in this thread are completely false but after hearing both good and bad things I would be completely fine with the truth lying somewhere in the middle. After all, no school is going to be perfect.

I'm with ya! I'm actually getting a kick out of this. Like I've mentioned before, I know a handful of people at the school and I am not worried. I'll see you there.