Asian tougher to get in

songaila said:

I was talking to a Indian-American doctor today, he said that it is tougher to get into medical schools as Asians in general especially male. I heard the same thing about the Chinese-Americans too.

Is there any proof of this. I know they are not URM but I see many many of Asian doctors.

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This belongs in pre-allo. Allo students already are done with admissions concerns.

moving from allo to pre-allo

songaila said:

I was talking to a Indian-American doctor today, he said that it is tougher to get into medical schools as Asians in general especially male. I heard the same thing about the Chinese-Americans too.

Is there any proof of this. I know they are not URM but I see many many of Asian doctors.

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What do you want to hear that will make you feel good?

Yes, It is tougher for them...happy! so what does that mean? It means they are extremely smarter than everybody else. URM get in with lower stats than Asians. More Asians deserve to be in medical school because it is their birthright. what more do you want me to type , so you read them and get high on them.

arsenewenger said:

What do you want to hear that will make you feel good?

Yes, It is tougher for them...happy! so what does that mean? It means they are extremely smarter than everybody else. URM get in with lower stats than Asians. More Asians deserve to be in medical school because it is their birthright. what more do you want me to type , so you read them and get high on them.

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I've always wondered what your name and avatar mean. That you are an undercover gunner?

Asians just aren't considered URM, so its just as hard for them as anyone else...oh, and for the Indian I'm guessing its easier as they usually don't identify as asian and there are so freeken many of them coming over here!

songaila said:

I was talking to a Indian-American doctor today, he said that it is tougher to get into medical schools as Asians in general especially male. I heard the same thing about the Chinese-Americans too.

Is there any proof of this. I know they are not URM but I see many many of Asian doctors.

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its pretty much true (especially for those damn southasian males). ive heard this many times (including some inside info from an adcom).

there's no point in whining about it. it sucks. and that is all. the only way to stop it is to change the southasian culture that promotes doctors. bastards.

Stolenspatulas said:

its pretty much true (especially for those damn southasian males). ive heard this many times (including some inside info from an adcom).

there's no point in whining about it. it sucks. and that is all. the only way to stop it is to change the southasian culture that promotes doctors. bastards.

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Excuse me, doesn't that count as discrimination??? If URM are accepted by affirmative action, it is protested on account of "unfair" advantage, and fair play is encouraged. On the other hand, if asians get discriminated against on account of their race, it is fine since there are apparently so many of them, and what is the harm in destroying some of their hopes and aspirations? Blame the culture. What about fairness? What about equal competition? If what you say about the adcom is true, this is overt, sanctioned racism and needs to be challenged legally.

Asians and white matriculants have the same numbers in to get in according to AAMC. Take it as you will.

songaila said:

Life is unfair. However, it's all a number game. Just like the cut off GPA and MCAT. If you have the score, you get in. How much you have passion for the career don't really count that much if you have a 20MCAT. I have also heard that age is also a factor for MD schools even though there are plenty of non-trads.

I was just curious about if it really exists because I see there are tons of Asian docs in the hospital.

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I think the only way to see if this discrimination exists would be to compare the applicant pool and the admitted pool and see whether there is any preference given in cases of comparable candidates of different races. Although since medical schools factor in judgements about "moral character" of applicants, it would be harder to compare just by numbers - an interesting study though.

songaila said:

I was talking to a Indian-American doctor today, he said that it is tougher to get into medical schools as Asians in general especially male. I heard the same thing about the Chinese-Americans too.

Is there any proof of this. I know they are not URM but I see many many of Asian doctors.

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Here are some charts to put things into perspective:






As you can see. In just about all the ethnic groups, about half the applicants are accepted into medical school. The problem is that a plethora of asians are applying, so even though about half are still be accepted, alot more are not being accepted as compared to URMs not accepted.

smq123 said:

Nobody seems to know who Arsene Wenger is!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsène_Wenger

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That's exactly why I'm asking if he's an undercover gunner

omegaxx said:

That's exactly why I'm asking if he's an undercover gunner

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apparently that guy doesn't know that ARSEnal are the gunners I'm a Spurs fan myself

UMP said:

apparently that guy doesn't know that ARSEnal are the gunners I'm a Spurs fan myself

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For real? But why? Why would anybody support a team like Tottenham?

Liverpool are on fire in CL.

To OP: props to you for referring to Indian premeds as Asian premeds. Too often are Indians dismissed when Asian is equated with Chinese.
But in regards to your original question, maybe it is harder for Indian premeds because they (we) think that medicine is the only option available, nothing else exists. just relax, work hard and you'll be successful.

degoo_ said:

Liverpool are on fire in CL.

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I hate playing against Liverpool. But, you have to give it to Rafa. I think he is a great coach and a smart one indeed. What more can you say about a coach who defeated the "almighty" Barcelona, embarrassed Arsenal (most stylish team in EPL), and is about to lift his 2nd UCL cup in two years. However, I have one question... why does he loses his ability to speak coherently in English anytime Liverpool loses an important match?

arsenewenger said:

For real? But why? Why would anybody support a team like Tottenham?

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I bet they win v. Chelsea this weekend.

degoo_ said:

I bet they win v. Chelsea this weekend.

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You never know. Chelsea always plays the best with their backs to the wall.

Liverpool is stupendous though. It'll be amazing if they lift the CL cup again.

degoo_ said:

I bet they win v. Chelsea this weekend.

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Inorder to beat chelsea, you must be able to out muscle Drogba and Chev... you think Spurs defenders can do that? i doubt it.

Tyger said:

Excuse me, doesn't that count as discrimination??? If URM are accepted by affirmative action, it is protested on account of "unfair" advantage, and fair play is encouraged. On the other hand, if asians get discriminated against on account of their race, it is fine since there are apparently so many of them, and what is the harm in destroying some of their hopes and aspirations? Blame the culture. What about fairness? What about equal competition? If what you say about the adcom is true, this is overt, sanctioned racism and needs to be challenged legally.

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you need to calm down buddy. just dominate and head on into med school. no prob bob-araj.

We are at an ever so slight disadvantage, but more or less you get judged on your merits.

I think at CERTAIN schools the fact that you're asian will hurt you more, but overall at med schools as a whole asians are pretty much on par with caucasians.

But I do know that at some elite schools you have a statistically significant disadvantage. Then again I wouldn't have a chance at those schools anyways even if I was caucasian, so I don't care, but I'm sure some people do.

What the AAMC stats might not reveal btw, could be that while asians have the same overall MCAT/GPA, they end up at lower tiered schools more often. Now, I'm not saying that I have proof of this, but I'm pointing this out to show that while the AAMC data could show the same average, it doesn't neccessarily mean that there aren't schools where you're at a disadvantage.

Anyways, again, doesn't actually affect me since I'm not gunning for some elite school.

songaila said:

it is tougher to get into medical schools as Asians in general

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Unfortunately, this is *MOST LIKELY* true!

GoLAClippers said:

Unfortunately, this is *MOST LIKELY* true!

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I am asian too but i strongly disagree with those rumors that asians are being treated poorly. asians who support those theories can't even come up with details that support what they are talking about or don't even know what they are talking about.

DoctaJay said:

As you can see. In just about all the ethnic groups, about half the applicants are accepted into medical school. The problem is that a plethora of asians are applying, so even though about half are still be accepted, alot more are not being accepted as compared to URMs not accepted.

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19% of applicants are Asian, and 19% of matriculants are Asian. I don't see a discrepancy.

So I would argue that there is no added difficulty for Asians to get into med school (there really should be), so stop complaining about it. If you're going to complain, you should whine about how Asian cultures encourage everyone to go into medicine for simply prideful family reasons when you don't even give a **** about the patients.

g3pro said:

So I would argue that there is no added difficulty for Asians to get into med school (there really should be), so stop complaining about it. If you're going to complain, you should whine about how Asian cultures encourage everyone to go into medicine for simply prideful family reasons when you don't even give a **** about the patients.

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Dude I'd back the f*ck up there... Yeah, some people get pushed into medicine that way, but it's a little ridiculous to claim that Asian cultures encourage everyone to go into medicine for family pride...wtf?

I'm Asian and if there's any family pressure it's not because of pride, but because so many family members happen to be in the medical field and love their careers, so they're convinced it's the greatest field ever. (I have 3 uncles who are doctors, and my mother is an RN and used to be a doctor in China)

I dunno what kind of crack you're smoking, but that crap is just ridiculously offensive. Accusing Asians of getting into medicine because of some family pride stereotype is like accusing Jews of getting into medicine for money.

Eh, nevermind, I read your other posts and realized I've been trolled. If only I knew your real name I'd repeat it 3 times so your head would explode.

Stolenspatulas said:

you need to calm down buddy. just dominate and head on into med school. no prob bob-araj.

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I am not saying that I know of any discrimination against Asians. But, I am very surprised at the vitriol/popular prejudice being leveled against Asians in this thread. First, I think that you are the one who needs calming down. As you say, just "dominate" and move on. There is no need to blame other ethnicities for your troubles. Welcome to capitalism. There are no protected markets.

Secondly, I challenge the assumption that most Asians get in to medical school just from "prideful reasons." As far as I have seen, there are just as many egoist applicants among non-Asians as among Asians. Also, contrary to popular myth, Asians do, in fact, have personalities, and many care deeply about patient care. Selective failure of Asians at the interview stage - if this is at all true - may speak more about the lack of cultural fluency of interviewers than anything else. Imagine what happens when these same interviewers/doctors try to treat sick Asian patients. It is even more of a problem if doctors cannot relate with patients.

Cirrus83 said:

I'm Asian and if there's any family pressure it's not because of pride, but because so many family members happen to be in the medical field and love their careers, so they're convinced it's the greatest field ever. (I have 3 uncles who are doctors, and my mother is an RN and used to be a doctor in China)

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No family pressure to do anything in the medical field, but your entire extended family is in the medical field....

yeah, no family pressure there!

Wanna know why your entire extended family loves medicine? Consciously or unconsciously, they love it because it brings their families the greatest honor/pride.

Hey, you can love things for different reasons. Some people love medicine because of the financial incentives. Others love it because of the power. Others love it because it gets them the most women.

Those people all love medicine and think it's the greatest thing ever. You might not agree with their reasons for doing it, but you're just not dealing with reality. When seeing your patients, make sure your diagnoses are based in reality, not in some dreamed up fairly land where there are no motivations or bad things apart from "I'm going into medicine to help people."

To each his own. It's all the same.

By the way, does it make a difference that I'm from Taiwan?

It might be it's tough for Asians to get into Cali schools or the like because a large number of them apply there. No out of state Asian is going to apply to North Dakota or Alabama if he or she didn't have to or wasn't from there already.

Tyger said:

I am not saying that I know of any discrimination against Asians. But, I am very surprised at the vitriol/popular prejudice being leveled against Asians in this thread. First, I think that you are the one who needs calming down. As you say, just "dominate" and move on. There is no need to blame other ethnicities for your troubles. Welcome to capitalism. There are no protected markets.

Secondly, I challenge the assumption that most Asians get in to medical school just from "prideful reasons." As far as I have seen, there are just as many egoist applicants among non-Asians as among Asians. Also, contrary to popular myth, Asians do, in fact, have personalities, and many care deeply about patient care. Selective failure of Asians at the interview stage - if this is at all true - may speak more about the lack of cultural fluency of interviewers than anything else. Imagine what happens when these same interviewers/doctors try to treat sick Asian patients. It is even more of a problem if doctors cannot relate with patients.

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Alright buddy. As a south-asian male, i am confident in stating that i know of some south-asian premeds that likely dont have a ''genuine'' urge to go into medicine. That said, no one does. Everyone is tainted by their respective cultures, by what you perceive a doctor is (as through the media, personal experiences and connections), and so on. My point is that I do know some southasians where this amount of influence from family/culture has gone to far, IMO. Many south-asians are persuaded/influenced to enter medicine. that doesnt mean they'll become crappy doctors... it just means that they likely would've been happier doing something else besides medicine. whats funny is ive noticed that the more ''americanized'' a south-asian is, the less this cultural effect exists.

also, i find it seriously hilarious that its ok to make fun of asians openly ( if someone made fun of blacks or hispanics there would be a huge uproar...).

Lol, I hope all of you all realize that its only Asians arguing against Asians in this thread. But the dialouge is interesting.

Cirrus83 said:

Dude I'd back the f*ck up there... Yeah, some people get pushed into medicine that way, but it's a little ridiculous to claim that Asian cultures encourage everyone to go into medicine for family pride...wtf?

I'm Asian and if there's any family pressure it's not because of pride, but because so many family members happen to be in the medical field and love their careers, so they're convinced it's the greatest field ever. (I have 3 uncles who are doctors, and my mother is an RN and used to be a doctor in China)

I dunno what kind of crack you're smoking, but that crap is just ridiculously offensive. Accusing Asians of getting into medicine because of some family pride stereotype is like accusing Jews of getting into medicine for money.

Eh, nevermind, I read your other posts and realized I've been trolled. If only I knew your real name I'd repeat it 3 times so your head would explode.

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chill out u weiner

Guyz LeTz StOp Da HaTe n Go PlAyZ ouR CoUnTeRsTrIkE &&& WaRcRaFt OkIeZZZzZ1?!?!? LoLz OMGz0rs roFLz.

songaila said:

I was talking to a Indian-American doctor today, he said that it is tougher to get into medical schools as Asians in general especially male. I heard the same thing about the Chinese-Americans too.

Is there any proof of this. I know they are not URM but I see many many of Asian doctors.

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Case closed.

Can't these friggin' Asians get off our backs?



btw I'm Asian

My mom got me thinking about medicine when I was about 5 or 6.

Since then I have fallen prey to many other stereotypes:
1.) When speaking to Asians (especially older ones) who were not born in this country, my voice shifts to mirror their lack of grasp of Engrish langwage. I berieve it is that I no feel comfortable speaking better Engrish than olders.

2.) I drive like sh**.

3.) I like eggrolls and coconut milk in my curry.

4.) KARAOKE KARAOKE KARAOKE

5.) For several years I ran around with an Asian (Korean) church and got completely brainwashed by the typical Asian church social circle. I was trained in the arts of gossiping and passing judgement, two things you must have to join these social groups. Talk about the most Godless places you could possibly walk into - oops there I go again! Residual training FTW.

6.) I play DoTA/WCIII. I even played SRO for a while. ONly Asians can sit in front of a monitor and grind for more than 8 hrs straight.

7.) I do martial arts WAAATAAAAA HEEEEEE YAHHHHHHHHH GONG SAU GONG SAU GONG SAU BOARD NO HIT BACK YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

8.) I watch animes! yattta!!! MOtto MOtto! Doko Ikuno!?!

9.) I am very submissive and effeminate like every other Asian male on the planet. We are not assertive at all and have no chance with white womens.

10.) And here's the clincher - my wiener is dinky! DATS RIGHT MY ASIAN BRETHREN OUR DINGALINGS ARE THE SIZE OF VIENNA SAUSAGES, YOU KNOW THE HORMEL ONES THAT ARE LIKE 3 INCHES LONG JUST COME TO TERMS WITH YOURSELVES AND ACCEPT IT.

If u are Asian and you have fallen prey to more than 2 of the above, then u can't really yell about the family pushing you into medicine thing, because really, you are propagating stereotypes yourself.

I am proud to say that I am a Asian stereotype sustainer, and I kowtow to the parents that push their kids into medicine.

The world today seems absolutely crackers,
With nuclear bombs to blow us all sky high.
There's fools and idiots sitting on the trigger.
It's depressing and it's senseless, and that's why...
I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees,
Yet they're always friendly, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
There's nine hundred million of them in the world today.
You'd better learn to like them; that's what I say.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They come from a long way overseas,
But they're cute and they're cuddly, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese food.
The waiters never are rude.
Think of the many things they've done to impress.
There's Maoism, Taoism, I Ching, and Chess.

So I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.

I like Chinese thought,
The wisdom that Confucious taught.
If Darwin is anything to shout about,
The Chinese will survive us all without any doubt.

So, I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees,
Yet they're wise and they're witty, and they're ready to please.

All together.

[verse in Chinese]
Wo ai zhongguo ren. (I like Chinese.)
Wo ai zhongguo ren. (I like Chinese.)
Wo ai zhongguo ren. (I like Chinese.)
Ni hao ma; ni hao ma; ni hao ma; zaijien! (How are you; how are you; how are you; goodbye!)

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
Their food is guaranteed to please,
A fourteen, a seven, a nine, and lychees.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees...

Monty Python - I like Chinese

eternalrage said:

Since then I have fallen prey to many other stereotypes:
1.) When speaking to Asians (especially older ones) who were not born in this country, my voice shifts to mirror their lack of grasp of Engrish langwage. I berieve it is that I no feel comfortable speaking better Engrish than olders.

2.) I drive like sh**.

3.) I like eggrolls and coconut milk in my curry.

4.) KARAOKE KARAOKE KARAOKE

5.) For several years I ran around with an Asian (Korean) church and got completely brainwashed by the typical Asian church social circle. I was trained in the arts of gossiping and passing judgement, two things you must have to join these social groups. Talk about the most Godless places you could possibly walk into - oops there I go again! Residual training FTW.

6.) I play DoTA/WCIII. I even played SRO for a while. ONly Asians can sit in front of a monitor and grind for more than 8 hrs straight.

7.) I do martial arts WAAATAAAAA HEEEEEE YAHHHHHHHHH GONG SAU GONG SAU GONG SAU BOARD NO HIT BACK YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

8.) I watch animes! yattta!!! MOtto MOtto! Doko Ikuno!?!

9.) I am very submissive and effeminate like every other Asian male on the planet. We are not assertive at all and have no chance with white womens.

10.) And here's the clincher - my wiener is dinky! DATS RIGHT MY ASIAN BRETHREN OUR DINGALINGS ARE THE SIZE OF VIENNA SAUSAGES, YOU KNOW THE HORMEL ONES THAT ARE LIKE 3 INCHES LONG JUST COME TO TERMS WITH YOURSELVES AND ACCEPT IT.

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Is it wrong that your post reminds me of:

Mayor McDaniels: ...And so, we want you to design and build a great wall, all around the city.
City Wok Owner: I don' build wall. I just own un' operate City Wok.
Gerald: We just think that you're the best person to put up a wall. We're sure you've got it in your blood.
City Wok Owner: [thinks a moment] Oh, I get it. Just because I Chinese, you think I build wall. That i' bull****! I'm not stereotype, okay?! Just because I'm Chinese doesn't mean I go around building wall! I'm just a normal person like all o'you! I eat ahrice and drive ahreally slow, just like the rest o'you! I'm not stereotype!

Same acceptance rates across races even though the applicant pools are very different (URMs have much lower MCAT/GPA's in general). Obviously, URMs have an advantage and thus whites/asians are at a disadvantage. That's the truth. No sense in whining about it.

If you really want some amusement, peruse the India forum for a while. You'll see enough of ethnocentric posturing to start a riot. Are there riots on the intarweb?

Yeah, the India forum is lots of fun...I'm surprised people actually post some of that stuff...

For those who think that all asians enter medicine for family pride, you need to check your heads and get some more life experience.

xylem29 said:

For those who think that all asians enter medicine for family pride, you need to check your heads and get some more life experience.

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Agreed. My parents never mentioned medicine. I think my dad was hoping I'd be a mathematician like him.

BigRedPremed said:

Agreed. My parents never mentioned medicine. I think my dad was hoping I'd be a mathematician like him.

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Yea, my parents at one point casually told me (my mom actually) that maybe I should try something else since I was working so hard during undergrad - after they learned of the process of becoming a physician, they were a bit worried I'd stress myself to death.

xylem29 said:

Yea, my parents at one point casually told me (my mom actually) that maybe I should try something else since I was working so hard during undergrad - after they learned of the process of becoming a physician, they were a bit worried I'd stress myself to death.

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When I complain about grades and how hard premed is, my parents just urge me to work harder. I believe my dad said that if I had to stress about grades, it meant that I was not working hard enough.

When my parents called overseas to my grandparents and told them I was going to JHU for undergrad they were like "OHHHSOOOOOO JOHN HOPKIN HE DOCTOR VERY GOOD!"

: /

Parents push us into medicine. Who cares. Bush pushed us into Iraq and I don't see any of you in peace rallies.

Asians have a harder time getting into medical school (or from DocJay's post they appear to). Again who cares? WHO CARES?

Stop watching Korean dramas that hype up medicine and studying in the United States and try being a real Asian. Go practice martial arts. Go dream about white womens. Go plant kimchi in the ground. Go dust your closet with mothballs. Go run around in packs of Asians in college and shout loudly in your native tongue. Go to the library. Go to a BOA concert. Go pick lotus flowers. Go talk like youre being dubbed badly. Go bow to soemthing a thousand times. Go write a haiku about some waterfall hitting a bridge. Go eat raw fish and comment about how bad the sushi is when you've never even been to Japan. Go to San Francisco. Go choke on some lychees. Go drive into a newspaper stand. Go name your kids by dropping a metal spoon in a wooden box. Go get double eyelid surgery. Go do math. GO TO KUMON CLASS AND GET YOUR STICKERS. Go to your local rec and play basketball. Go celebrate the lunar new year and disrespect Caesar's legacy. Go to a PCbong and play till you die of hunger. Go clone a dog and lie about it. Go make nuclear weapons and then b*tch about the regulations and demand the oil that we stole from Iraq. Go invent a more efficient car. Go play Go.

Just stop whining about it. If you don't get in, blame yourself, not your ethnicity.

DoctaJay said:

Here are some charts to put things into perspective:

As you can see. In just about all the ethnic groups, about half the applicants are accepted into medical school. The problem is that a plethora of asians are applying, so even though about half are still be accepted, alot more are not being accepted as compared to URMs not accepted.

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Why would you dare bring facts and data into this discussion!!! It is virtually impossible for asians to get into medical school. I am sure of this because my asian doctor told me so. I think you should be banned for all of your fact based reasoning, it's offensive and uncalled for.

Eternal rage, just because you are Asian doesn't mean that you need to support all of these stereotypes and do what all of the other Asian kids are doing.. Just be yourself and love yourself. You don't need to justify anything to anyone.