How OSU's hospital deal died....

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almo88

almo88

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So, I go to pick up The Oklahoman today and see that there is a front page article on OSU-COM. The headline reads: "How OSU's hospital deal died." OH ****! :scared:

Apparently, OSU withheld $6.5 mil from Ardent, and now a federal lawsuit has been filed. OSU and Ardent entered into a 50yr long contract, but now it's all blown to ****. They say that the residency program will hold for two more years, who knows after that!

"Although the relationship between the school and Ardent will remain in place for two years, the severed deal would appear to put the long-term future of the residency program in question" - The Oklahoman

So, now that my DREAM SCHOOL doesn't have a hospital, what do I do? What is the future of OSU? Help me out, I'M LOSING MY MIND!!!! 😕
 
Not what was OSU thinking...what was Ardent (the company that owns the hospital) thinking.

Ardent was misusing the money so the state withheld it (it was only to be used for capital improvements and the residency programs but Ardent was trying to use it for operating expenses). Keep in mind that Ardent whines that they don't have any money, yet they're donating a million $ to Tulsa's Arkansas river development. (definitely not a healthcare concern)

The residency programs are still here, although we'll be down a few spots next year. There are no changes whatsoever to the medical student training at this point. This school & it's residency training spots are important to the state. I'm not saying everything will be peachy perfect, but I seriously doubt that the state will let the programs go away.

almo88 said:
So, now that my DREAM SCHOOL doesn't have a hospital, what do I do? What is the future of OSU? Help me out, I'M LOSING MY MIND!!!! 😕
Click to expand...

You're reading way too much into this. OSU still has OSU Medical Center for a training hospital. The agreement that Ardent withdrew from is still in effect for at least 2 years and something will be worked out in the meantime.

In other words, don't let this sway any decision to consider OSU or not.
 
DrMom said:
Not what was OSU thinking...what was Ardent (the company that owns the hospital) thinking.

Ardent was misusing the money so the state withheld it (it was only to be used for capital improvements and the residency programs but Ardent was trying to use it for operating expenses). Keep in mind that Ardent whines that they don't have any money, yet they're donating a million $ to Tulsa's Arkansas river development. (definitely not a healthcare concern)

The residency programs are still here, although we'll be down a few spots next year. There are no changes whatsoever to the medical student training at this point. This school & it's residency training spots are important to the state. I'm not saying everything will be peachy perfect, but I seriously doubt that the state will let the programs go away.



You're reading way too much into this. OSU still has OSU Medical Center for a training hospital. The agreement that Ardent withdrew from is still in effect for at least 2 years and something will be worked out in the meantime.

In other words, don't let this sway any decision to consider OSU or not.
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Thanks 👍

Here's the TulsaWorld article.
 
almo88 said:
So, now that my DREAM SCHOOL doesn't have a hospital, what do I do? What is the future of OSU? Help me out, I'M LOSING MY MIND!!!! 😕
Click to expand...

If you're a pre-med, I wouldn't use this as a reason to avoid attending OSU-COM. The medical school itself is not going anywhere, and your first two years of basic sciences will be unaffected.

As for your clerkships/rotations... well, if OSU-COM isn't able to maintain their own teaching hospital, then they'll just end up joining the majority of other "homeless" DO schools that send their 3rd/4th years to hospitals throughout the local community. Worst case scenario would be that OSU will require the 3rd year students to arrange their own rotation schedule ala TUCOM in California. An annoyance, but not that big of a deal.
 
Terpskins99 said:
If you're a pre-med, I wouldn't use this as a reason to avoid attending OSU-COM. The medical school itself is not going anywhere, and your first two years of basic sciences will be unaffected.

As for your clerkships/rotations... well, if OSU-COM isn't able to maintain their own teaching hospital, then they'll just end up joining the majority of other "homeless" DO schools that send their 3rd/4th years to hospitals throughout the local community. Worst case scenario would be that OSU will require the 3rd year students to arrange their own rotation schedule ala TUCOM in California. An annoyance, but not that big of a deal.
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OSU won't lose their hospital, too many prominent DO's and a VERY active osteopathic association from there to let that happen.
 
I also wouldn't worry about a state supported school. When I was back in vegas the the University Medical center part of U of nevada had a 36million dollar deficit, did they close the hospital? No, State bailed them out with one council meeting. Another more recent story was when the Detroit Medical Center was trying to split from Wayne State. In the that case the school could have lost its accreditation. Yada yada yada, big names stepped in, now there happy as pie.
 
Long story short. Ardent just needs to leave. The state can't have it both ways. They are more than likely going to have to eventually just out right buy the hospital and turn it into an indigent care facility and fund it publicly.
 
The major issue at hand is funding from the state. Look up the disparity between OU and OSU's hospitals, and you will then see the major problem. While OSU is the superior school from a training standpoint, it is seen as inferior by the state legislature. I believe OSU received 20 million...and OU got 76. I think those numbers are correct, dont quote me though. It is an unfortunate situation, and at worst could dry up quite a few residency spots. I imagine the state will, as always, screw around until the last second and then strive for mediocrity. Kinda' glad I didnt go there in retrospect, even if the people there are so nice and its a great school (if you get in, think about going!). It is so unfortunate that the state has this fantastic resource and they are trying to let it go to waste while bulking up a school that is not quite as good but has a better brand name.
 
Lamont said:
I believe OSU received 20 million...and OU got 76.
Click to expand...

You aren't off by much from the numbers I've heard, but you should hear the OU vs OSU crap every time OSU tries to get some money to expand the program. Ya'd think the legislation bleeds crimson.
 
JayneCobb said:
Long story short. Ardent just needs to leave. The state can't have it both ways. They are more than likely going to have to eventually just out right buy the hospital and turn it into an indigent care facility and fund it publicly.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Also, for those of you reading the news stories: this stuff isn't new. There have been problems with Ardent since they bought the place and this is just the latest. I'm hoping they'll be gone sometime in the next few months.
 
I'm an OSU grad. Sounds like they need to get out of bed with ardent. From an education standpoint, that is a tremendous resource - if nothing else having attendings who had a student last month and will have one next month and know how to teach the bread and butter of their specialty. I dont know if either school is "superior" as above, and it doesnt really matter anyway. The bigger point is that if the state cares about what kind of doctors it produces, and wants to keep producing qualified physicians who will provide healthcare for its' residents, I think it probably needs to pay up.
 
Lamont said:
The major issue at hand is funding from the state. Look up the disparity between OU and OSU's hospitals, and you will then see the major problem. While OSU is the superior school from a training standpoint, it is seen as inferior by the state legislature. I believe OSU received 20 million...and OU got 76. I think those numbers are correct, dont quote me though. It is an unfortunate situation, and at worst could dry up quite a few residency spots. I imagine the state will, as always, screw around until the last second and then strive for mediocrity. Kinda' glad I didnt go there in retrospect, even if the people there are so nice and its a great school (if you get in, think about going!). It is so unfortunate that the state has this fantastic resource and they are trying to let it go to waste while bulking up a school that is not quite as good but has a better brand name.
Click to expand...

Well, adding more to the cr@p I guess, but why do think OU's training is inferior? And, no, USNews primary care ratings don't prove that point.

I agree that the schools should be more equally funded, but I get a big annoyed by unfounded statements made about OU from OSU applicants/students/grads.

Editing to add that I don't want to get into a huge my school is better than your school fight, but I've just never seen any clear and convincing proof for the statements you're making, especially since you're acting like it's so obvious that OU has worse training. If you decide to come back and practice in Oklahoma, you're going to have to work with OU grads, so maybe it's time to but aside some of the biases.
 
kungfufishing said:
I'm an OSU grad. Sounds like they need to get out of bed with ardent. From an education standpoint, that is a tremendous resource - if nothing else having attendings who had a student last month and will have one next month and know how to teach the bread and butter of their specialty. I dont know if either school is "superior" as above, and it doesnt really matter anyway. The bigger point is that if the state cares about what kind of doctors it produces, and wants to keep producing qualified physicians who will provide healthcare for its' residents, I think it probably needs to pay up.
Click to expand...

👍
 
Hey guys, it's not that OSU withheld money from Ardent, due to a new statute OSU recieved the money and is to distribute it between themselves and Ardent. In the past Ardent received the money first and they handled the distribution per some equation that they came up with. As of this time OSU tried to give Ardent its share (per their own equation) and Ardent refused it saying they want it all. Ardent has the same situation with OU and OU received the money first just like OSU, Ardent took their distribution with no hassle, so OSU also offered to distribute the money under the same guidelines as OU and again Ardent refused saying they want it all. This is the argument. OSU is not the Bad Guy here.
 
Which hospital is this concerning?? Integris in OK City or the one in Tulsa??
 
Doctor Bagel said:
Well, adding more to the cr@p I guess, but why do think OU's training is inferior? And, no, USNews primary care ratings don't prove that point.

I agree that the schools should be more equally funded, but I get a big annoyed by unfounded statements made about OU from OSU applicants/students/grads.

Editing to add that I don't want to get into a huge my school is better than your school fight, but I've just never seen any clear and convincing proof for the statements you're making, especially since you're acting like it's so obvious that OU has worse training. If you decide to come back and practice in Oklahoma, you're going to have to work with OU grads, so maybe it's time to but aside some of the biases.
Click to expand...


It's really just a matter of preferences, but over the past few years OSU has had better board scores, and is typically ranked higher than OU in all categories except research. Both are fine institutions and I'd be proud to attend either one. I think that the two reasons I listed are the main ones that people think of when wanting equal funds for both schools..
 
I don't know the specifics, but I know TCOM had a similar issue a few years ago and parted ways with the company administering their hospital. Again, I don't claim to know the specifics, but it doesn't appear they've missed a beat.
 
0350408 said:
It's really just a matter of preferences, but over the past few years OSU has had better board scores, and is typically ranked higher than OU in all categories except research. Both are fine institutions and I'd be proud to attend either one. I think that the two reasons I listed are the main ones that people think of when wanting equal funds for both schools..
Click to expand...

I can't comment on the board scores and honestly don't think you can make a fair comparison because we don't take the same boards. Sure, 100% of OSU students who take the USMLE supposedly pass it, but not all students have to take it, so again apples and oranges.

As for rankings, look at the USNews data more closely, and you'll see that OSU pretty much only beats OU in the # of grads who go into primary care, which is why they get ranked higher than us in that category. Consequently, it's not a ranking I'd take very seriously when picking a school. And that's why I asked for something different than USNews to prove OU's inferiority.

And about equal funds, one thing I didn't think about earlier is that we train nearly twice as many people as OSU, so it makes sense that we get some more money. My class started out with 167 people. OSU generally has somewhere around 90 people in a class.

Again, I think OSU is a good school, but I don't think it's clearly superior to OU.

Editing to add how how USNews gets their primary care rankings --

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings.../edu/grad/rankings/about/08med_meth_brief.php
 
Doctor Bagel said:
And about equal funds, one thing I didn't think about earlier is that we train nearly twice as many people as OSU, so it makes sense that we get some more money. My class started out with 167 people. OSU generally has somewhere around 90 people in a class.
Click to expand...

OSU gets significantly less funding per medical student. The teaching hospitals have a huge disparity too (if measured per resident or per patients).

And I agree that USNews rankings are of limited value. Both schools are good, but they have different "personalities" and tend to attract (and repel) different folks.
 
All well put... As I said above.. I'd be happy to go to either one... 🙂
 
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