deciding between two

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pacman8794

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i can't decide what i would enjoy more: clinical or counseling psychology. so i'm asking you guys here what you think based on my statement.

I like research, but i'm not too into it. I want to see patients and give psychological tests like ink blot tests and just give them advice on how to improve their lives.

In terms of going for one of those what do you think would be better: the PhD or Psyd? thanks guys

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I like research, but i'm not too into it. I want to see patients and give psychological tests like ink blot tests and just give them advice on how to improve their lives.

Ummmmmmm,
I'd actually look a little bit more into the nature of modern psychology if I were you, not to put too fine a point on it. Clinicians might use ink blots as a sort of rapport-building exercise or maybe to generate some material to talk about with a client, but it's not a test in the same sense that other measures are. As for giving advice, this is a big big big misconception that a lot of people have... advice in general is bad, for a lot of reasons. Clients don't want lectures--they get that from everyone else they talk to about their problems. And, really, none of us are qualified to tell someone else how to live their lives--is your life so well-ordered and well-worked-out that you can tell someone else how to live? Even if you WERE some paragon of adjustment, that doesn't mean the client will want or need to live the same way. All the competent clinicians I know warn against the urge to try to "fix" people.

Research is essential to psych. Even if you want to be a clinician and not an academic, research should inform everything you do. Like any PhD, PhDs in psych are research degrees.
 
I agree with JN, I'd do some more research on what psych is really about these days. If you're looking for general "advice giving" I'd stay away from psychology as a whole. Social work or perhaps school counseling (NOT school psychology - they are different) is probably a bit closer to what you're looking for.

And inkblot tests are used very rarely these days (and should be even rarer than they actually are). That's not to say they don't have legitimate uses, but I think you have this vision of the 1950's where you came in, someone sat on a couch and interpreted inkblots, and you told them the fact that they saw a tree means they're gay. We're a legitimate field now, most of us (sadly, not all) don't do that anymore;)
 
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BOOO........Ollie!!!

<---uses inkblots on occasion, and loves them!

I don't use them for Dx purposes, but instead as clinical tools to tease out information.

Ollie does have a point though, the field is shifting. I just attended a presentation today about more convergence between medicine and psychology.

-t
 
That's not to say they don't have legitimate uses

As long as your usage falls under that umbrella, it wasn't directed at you;)

I was more referring to the therapist who has been in practice for 40 years(usually in NYC or Boston it seems) who has clearly not read a research paper since the day they graduated (if they even read any then) and still thinks inkblots are legitimate tools for differential diagnosis.

I actually do think projectives have a place (despite the fact that such thoughts are blasphemy in my program) but I think people use them too often, use them poorly, and use them in inappropriate contexts these days. I think we need a new term for things like the projectives, since I DO believe that placing them in the assessment category next to something like the WAIS, is just irresponsible. Call an inkblot a "therapeutic tool" or something...
 
...I think people use them....poorly

I've been taught it takes YEARS of working with it to truly become proficient using it as it was designed, though the Extner system and the like are popular, I don't think they are as effective (based on reading some of the critical research, and my own personal opinions).

But......we should probably get this back to: Clinical vs. Counseling.

I don't know as much about counseling programs, so I'll defer to people in them.

-t
 
I like the TAT more if I have to use a projective test. One christmas I fake-administered it to some of my family and got some "oooooooh"s. It's fun, but I don't see any real treatment value in it.

Clinical vs. Counseling! Fun discussion! I'm currently in a counseling program so I'm very happy to weigh in on this thread.

I've mentioned before on the forum that one will find much more difference between clinical and counseling programs based on what college the program is housed in than the name of the program.

Counseling housed in Ed. departments operate under the mandate of a College (or School, or whatever) of Education and thus must serve that mandate. This essentially means that the things that go on in the program in terms of research and practice must be applicable, in some way, to the mission of the Ed department. In same cases, this means more of a focus on adolescent development, or vocational psych, or psych impacting families, that sort of thing.

A second difference relates to funding. Ed-housed counseling is typically poorer than psych-housed counseling, and there are also typically less opportunities for funding from teaching (since there aren't usually undergrad-level education classes). Funding in general in Ed-housed counseling is weaker. Ed-housed departments get fewer applicants (mostly for those mentioned funding reasons) and are easier to get into, comparatively (although many still receive over 100 applicants every year).

The story changes for psych-housed counseling. Not many Counseling progs are run out of psych, but those that are are almost indistinguishable from clinical psych programs in many respects. Funding tends to be great, teaching is readily available, and the connections between psych programs are much much stronger. Since Psych-housed departments serve the mandate of a College or Arts (or Arts and Science, or whatever), things are much more open as to what you're free to do. Research interests vary much more widely as well. Psych-housed counseling programs match good clinical programs in competitiveness for admission.

So, what differentiates counseling and clinical then? There are a few things. One is that counseling psych is, at least in theory and most definitely in practice at the highest-ranked departments, entirely committed to the scientist-practioner model. Plenty of writing by Counseling Psych people underscores this (e.g. Murdock, 2007; Murdock, Alcorn, Heeacker, & Stoltenberg, 2005; Stoltenberg et al., 2007) and there's actually significant resistance to other models within Counseling Psych. There's certainly variation within departments, just as within clinical psych, but one shouldn't be under the impression that Counseling Psych programs all train practitioners.

There are a few other differences... Counseling Psych's history is in occupational and vocational psych, not severe psychopathology as is the case with clinical, and current curriculums emphasize that. So, coursework covers all the APA bases plus things like individual differences, multiculturalism, vocational theory, diversity, and intersections of those topics. Counseling Psych programs cover assessment and related topics, but psychopathology is deemphasized and psychology behind optimizing functioning is highlighted. Research reflects the difference as well--much more identity, adjustment, identification of barriers to optimal functioning, and well-being research happens in counseling departments and much less work with things like severe pathology or neuropsych.

That was long! Hope it was informative! :)
 
Counseling Psych's history is in occupational and vocational psych, not severe psychopathology as is the case with clinical, and current curriculums emphasize that.

This was my understanding....and since I <3 severe pathology, I never really considered counseling programs.

I'm currently applying to internship, and it seems that the vast majority of sites look at clinical and counseling programs, so that shouldn't be a concern.

-t
 
That was actually one of the best explanations of the difference between counseling and clinical I have ever heard.

Listen to JN:)
 
My Master's in counseling program had Psychopathology in the curriculum. It was the class everyone dreaded as you needed to essentially memorize the DSM IIIR (I'm old) cover to cover. I remember having to know all the criteria for delirium and pica. I will probably never see a patient presenting with those issues. ah...good times.
 
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