The Randomness of Medical School Acceptances...

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Okay, so I have done a ton of looking around here on SDN. Ya know, the usual: checking out everyone's profiles, numbers, ECs, and reading almost every post within ten pages about things having to do with medical school acceptance... So, my question is (drum roll please):

Why does it seem like acceptance into a medical school is so RANDOM?

I mean, it seems some of you with great numbers are just not getting a break, while others with lower numbers are getting offers everywhere! The reason this distresses me so is because it's just one more thing you can't control :scared:... For example, I really want to get into University of Arizona medical school, but from what I have heard, they are completely random in who they do and don't accept! What is their secret! And of course it's not just UofA. It's everywhere! Don't even get me started on Mayo... How are we premeds supposed to deal with this insanity! 😱 I'm partly joking, but seriously... it's beginning to seem there is no rhyme or reason to med school acceptances from what I can see. Any thoughts?
 
Yeah it sure is a "crapshoot".


Thats right, I won the race for using that ******ed cliche.
 
I think medical school acceptances are like women, some like brunettes some like blondes and some like redheads. (With the women being who the medical schools accept btw). Another reason it is like women is because we work so hard to get with them( get into them), and when we finally do ,we spend the next four years complaining about how much work is required and how tired we are of all their crap!!!😀

Ps Ladies: I dont mean this to be offensive, I just thought I would draw an analogy.
 
amwatts0322 said:
I think medical school acceptances are like women, some like brunettes some like blondes and some like redheads. (With the women being who the medical schools accept btw). Another reason it is like women is because we work so hard to get with them( get into them), and when we finally do ,we spend the next four years complaining about how much work is required and how tired we are of all their crap!!!😀

Ps Ladies: I dont mean this to be offensive, I just thought I would draw an analogy.
Click to expand...

That is a very good point. One more thing... they both leave you broke as a bum.
 
I agree... This process makes so little sense. My numbers and ECs are far from spectacular, but I'm getting action from some incredible places (and then a barrage of waitlists). Of course, I don't think that any of the top, top places are actually serious about me. To use the analogy between med schools and women... I feel like the top 10 schools are flirting with me, but they don't actually want a long-term relationship.
 
SBBunny said:
I agree... This process makes so little sense. My numbers and ECs are far from spectacular, but I'm getting action from some incredible places (and then a barrage of waitlists). Of course, I don't think that any of the top, top places are actually serious about me. To use the analogy between med schools and women... I feel like the top 10 schools are flirting with me, but they don't actually want a long-term relationship.
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Yeah those top 10 schools are all sluts lol!!
 
SBBunny said:
I agree... This process makes so little sense. My numbers and ECs are far from spectacular, but I'm getting action from some incredible places (and then a barrage of waitlists). Of course, I don't think that any of the top, top places are actually serious about me. To use the analogy between med schools and women... I feel like the top 10 schools are flirting with me, but they don't actually want a long-term relationship.
Click to expand...

Your numbers certainly aren't average. I'd call your MCAT score very good. It doesn't surprise me at all that top 10 schools are batting their eyes at you.
 
while there is some unpredictability to it, acceptances are far from RANDOM. what you see on SDN is a snippet about each person. the adcom sees a much broader view. they spend thousands of hours finding the right students for their school. such a process is hardly random.

but it is difficult to understand from the outside looking in. if it were all about numbers, a computer program could pick a class and many of us would be out of luck.

but it is an art, not a science. art is hard to predict or understand. that's why they call it art.
 
MDRus said:
while there is some unpredictability to it, acceptances are far from RANDOM. what you see on SDN is a snippet about each person. the adcom sees a much broader view. they spend thousands of hours finding the right students for their school. such a process is hardly random.

but it is difficult to understand from the outside looking in. if it were all about numbers, a computer program could pick a class and many of us would be out of luck.

but it is an art, not a science. art is hard to predict or understand. that's why they call it art.
Click to expand...

Hu...I thought they called it art because of the pretty colors...
 
Id like to think of med school acceptances of more as "bullsh1t" than "random." Random implies no inclination for either sense and fairness or bias and ridiculousness. Bullsh1t connotes the injustice of the process much better.
 
MDRus said:
while there is some unpredictability to it, acceptances are far from RANDOM. what you see on SDN is a snippet about each person. the adcom sees a much broader view. they spend thousands of hours finding the right students for their school. such a process is hardly random.
Click to expand...

Going straight to the numbers, and then skimming your personal statement and LORs is hardly taking a broad view. Heck, if your numbers aren't in the right place, your app won't even get a skim at many schools. But you can't blame the schools for taking short cuts. You have to when you have 10,000 apps to sift through.

Of course there is some randomness in this process. You work around the randomness by plugging as many holes in your app as possible, applying broadly, and applying to enough schools where you are competitive.
 
Ginzo said:
Going straight to the numbers, and then skimming your personal statement and LORs is hardly taking a broad view. Heck, if your numbers aren't in the right place, your app won't even get a skim at many schools. But you can't blame the schools for taking short cuts. You have to when you have 10,000 apps to sift through.

Of course there is some randomness in this process. You work around the randomness by plugging as many holes in your app as possible, applying broadly, and applying to enough schools where you are competitive.
Click to expand...


I completely agree. I know many people with spectacular numbers and nothing else to prove for why they want to be a doctor (no ECs especially). They're gettin love from SOOOOOO many schools now. The only variable I can think of is the screening process plays a huge part for getting your foot in the door. If you don't have the numbers, bon voyage.
 
I have also been amazed by the responses (and non-responses) I have received so far. Some of the schools that I thought would welcome me with wide open arms have rejected me outright, and schools I thought would never take a look have invited me for interview (and accepted me).

What is our secret weapon? I will tell you without a doubt....

APPLYING BROADLY!!! (assuming your numbers are at least mediocre)

If you REALLY want to be a doctor and be accepted on your first try...no matter where you may have to live or what tuition you may have to pay...shouldn't you bite the bullet and spend the extra $5000 (or whatever it is) to apply to EVERY school you would consider that accepts OOS students, etc.? Wouldn't you want to throw your hat in the ring with EVERY admissions committee that you could? Who knows which person will say, "I like this kid!" and give you an interview? Who knows what strange "quota" you might fill for that school (although they say they don't use these)?

After all, if, by statistics, we may get one interview for every ten schools to which we apply (assuming our list is well-chosen), wouldn't applying to sixty schools give you twice the chance of acceptance than applying to thirty? And four times the chance of acceptance than applying to fifteen?

So why, then, do we pinch a few bucks (after spending thousands on our undergrad and planning to spend thousands more on our med school) on the app process?

Any thoughts? :idea:
 
smcin001 said:
Yeah it sure is a "crapshoot".


Thats right, I won the race for using that ******ed cliche.
Click to expand...

LoL, in honor of this cliched phrase I think med schools should replace the "submit application" button on their secondary sites with a "Roll 'dem bones!" button.
 
Corker said:
After all, if, by statistics, we may get one interview for every ten schools to which we apply (assuming our list is well-chosen), wouldn't applying to sixty schools give you twice the chance of acceptance than applying to thirty? And four times the chance of acceptance than applying to fifteen?

Any thoughts? :idea:
Click to expand...

I'd rather saw off my hands than fill out 60 secondaries.
 
Corker said:
I have also been amazed by the responses (and non-responses) I have received so far. Some of the schools that I thought would welcome me with wide open arms have rejected me outright, and schools I thought would never take a look have invited me for interview (and accepted me).

What is our secret weapon? I will tell you without a doubt....

APPLYING BROADLY!!! (assuming your numbers are at least mediocre)

If you REALLY want to be a doctor and be accepted on your first try...no matter where you may have to live or what tuition you may have to pay...shouldn't you bite the bullet and spend the extra $5000 (or whatever it is) to apply to EVERY school you would consider that accepts OOS students, etc.? Wouldn't you want to throw your hat in the ring with EVERY admissions committee that you could? Who knows which person will say, "I like this kid!" and give you an interview? Who knows what strange "quota" you might fill for that school (althought they say they don't use these)?

After all, if, by statistics, we may get one interview for every ten schools to which we apply (assuming our list is well-chosen), wouldn't applying to sixty schools give you twice the chance of acceptance than applying to thirty? And four times the chance of acceptance than applying to fifteen?

So why, then, do we pinch a few bucks (after spending thousands on our undergrad and planning to spend thousands more on our med school) on the app process?

Any thoughts? :idea:
Click to expand...

Because applying to 60 schools means writing 60 secondaries!!! And possibly doing 60 interviews(unlikely I know)! It's a big TIME committment as well to apply to more and more schools. I'd rather choose about 20 that I like, and do a good thorough job with their secondaries, and turn them in early, rather than bogged down with 40 secondaries that are driving me crazy.
 
Textuality said:
Because applying to 60 schools means writing 60 secondaries!!! And possibly doing 60 interviews(unlikely I know)! It's a big TIME committment as well to apply to more and more schools. I'd rather choose about 20 that I like, and do a good thorough job with their secondaries, and turn them in early, rather than bogged down with 40 secondaries that are driving me crazy.
Click to expand...

100% understood...so I guess it just comes down to how much you REALLY want to be accepted this year.
 
Corker said:
After all, if, by statistics, we may get one interview for every ten schools to which we apply (assuming our list is well-chosen), wouldn't applying to sixty schools give you twice the chance of acceptance than applying to thirty? And four times the chance of acceptance than applying to fifteen?

So why, then, do we pinch a few bucks (after spending thousands on our undergrad and planning to spend thousands more on our med school) on the app process?

Any thoughts? :idea:
Click to expand...

Holy crap man, sixty schools? If you have reasonable state schools they are your best bet, and if you are a mediocre applicant thirty schools should be a sure thing as long as they are not all on the most competitive end of the spectrum. By the way, applying to sixty schools could not possibly give you twice the chance of acceptance that thirty schools would if your chance of getting in with thirty schools is over fifty percent.
 
Bartelby said:
Holy crap man, sixty schools? If you have reasonable state schools they are your best bet, and if you are a mediocre applicant thirty schools should be a sure thing as long as they are not all on the most competitive end of the spectrum. By the way, applying to sixty schools could not possibly give you twice the chance of acceptance that thirty schools would if your chance of getting in with thirty schools is over fifty percent.
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting everyone apply to sixty schools...I'm just saying that, for those who want to almost GUARANTEE an acceptance with average stats, wouldn't this be the best way? C'mon, give me some love!!!😀
 
I'll bet there are a few people without acceptances this year that are thinking...hmmm....maybe sixty schools would have been a good idea...🙁
 
So.... at my school there is this honors program. It requires around 22 honors class credits, two years of a foreign language, a senior thesis, etc. But from what I have heard, this will make little difference to adcoms. The only society they really care about is phi betta kappa? Some upperclassmen were telling me, though, that the honors program makes you stick out so much more. I disagreed with them on the basis that so many schools have different honors programs and that graduating with honors didn't matter nearly as much as a high MCAT/GPA/Solid ECs. But, as always, who knows!
 
Honors societies, like Phi Beta Kappa, and programs like the one you're describing, are entirely different. I mean, one is something you get on the basis of your GPA, and the other is a whole lot of work. I think my honors degree has made me more interesting in the eyes of adcoms, because it's in liberal arts instead of the sciences. It comes up in my interviews often. As for any random society or program, who knows what they think.
 
Corker said:
I'm not suggesting everyone apply to sixty schools...I'm just saying that, for those who want to almost GUARANTEE an acceptance with average stats, wouldn't this be the best way? C'mon, give me some love!!!😀
Click to expand...

people should not have pay this much to apply to med school. the med application process is already the most economically biased grad/professional application process.
 
I agree...I think honors isn't going to be the deciding factor, but it DOES show initiative and desire. That couldn't hurt.
 
DBR said:
people should not have pay this much to apply to med school. the med application process is already the most economically biased grad/professional application process.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you. The cost is ridiculous and unfair, especially for the middle people (not rich, and not low-income enough for a fee waiver.)
 
Gators239 said:
I completely agree. I know many people with spectacular numbers and nothing else to prove for why they want to be a doctor (no ECs especially). They're gettin love from SOOOOOO many schools now. The only variable I can think of is the screening process plays a huge part for getting your foot in the door. If you don't have the numbers, bon voyage.
Click to expand...

i thought this thread was complaining about randomness. nothing random about what you are describing. and i am sure some schools are very number oriented; some less so.
 
Corker said:
I'm not suggesting everyone apply to sixty schools...I'm just saying that, for those who want to almost GUARANTEE an acceptance with average stats, wouldn't this be the best way? C'mon, give me some love!!!😀
Click to expand...

i completely agree. i applied to 25, with a broad range. have 7 interviews so far, also from a broad range, and one acceptance. if i had applied to 15 schools, it is entirely possible that i might have eliminated the very 7 that interviewed me!!! no doubt in my mind!!!!!! and i would be here with nothing.

my theory: the more you can stand to submit, the better. no question.
 
This was my feeling, too. I've been pleased with my results this year, but if I had really narrowed down my list due to budget constraints, I would have definitely eliminated some of the interviews (and acceptances) I have had.
 
I started a crapshoot thread of my own once, in a moment of desperation.

It's more likely that medical schools have far fewer slots than applicants, and they want to make sure that good students matriculate. Of course, there are superstars out there who apply with great GPAs and MCATs and experiences and LORs, but if a medical school isn't certain that person will matriculate, they'd be better off accepting someone lower on the list who is. If they all accept the same students, and each student can only attend one school, then each school that wasn't matriculated into has to dip back into their waitlist until the spots are filled. The trouble is that this whole process takes time, and while they're going back to their waitlist, the top waitlist students matriculate at other schools, forcing the original school to dip lower into the waitlist.

I bet the reason a lot of excellent students get rejected from schools that mediocre students get into has a lot to do with how likely the school thinks they are to matriculate.

And how early they applied.

And voodoo.
 
Yup..so much for applying to "safety" schools.
 
By the way, good luck on all those great interviews, Textuality! Hope X-mas brings some great news for you!
 
Corker said:
By the way, good luck on all those great interviews, Textuality! Hope X-mas brings some great news for you!
Click to expand...

Aw, thanks! You too 🙂
Haha, as it is, my heart stops every time I turn my mailbox key..
 
amwatts0322 said:
I think medical school acceptances are like women, some like brunettes some like blondes and some like redheads. (With the women being who the medical schools accept btw). Another reason it is like women is because we work so hard to get with them( get into them), and when we finally do ,we spend the next four years complaining about how much work is required and how tired we are of all their crap!!!😀

Ps Ladies: I dont mean this to be offensive, I just thought I would draw an analogy.
Click to expand...

Good thing you clarified, I thought you were trying to say they were 'easy' to get into (well, at least the blondes) 😀
 
Corker said:
This was my feeling, too. I've been pleased with my results this year, but if I had really narrowed down my list due to budget constraints, I would have definitely eliminated some of the interviews (and acceptances) I have had.
Click to expand...


i gave my premed advisor a list of 30 schools. he took 3 off the top and 2 off the bottom. i figured he knows best how people from my undergrad will do with my stats. so far, he was right.
 
medical school admissions is formulaic. it's just that we don't know the formula, kind of like how FICO has a formula to calculate our credit scores. why are some factors like length of history or delinquencies weighted heavier for some people than other? only the folks at Fair Isaac know.
 
MDRus said:
i gave my premed advisor a list of 30 schools. he took 3 off the top and 2 off the bottom. i figured he knows best how people from my undergrad will do with my stats. so far, he was right.
Click to expand...

That actually sounds like a really useful rule of thumb for future applicants👍
 
nomoreplz said:
Your numbers certainly aren't average. I'd call your MCAT score very good. It doesn't surprise me at all that top 10 schools are batting their eyes at you.
Click to expand...

Heh, thanks! Your application is also pretty darn eye-catching. I'm not suprised that you're getting plenty of action from lots of medical schools.

neuroprotector said:
I started a crapshoot thread of my own once, in a moment of desperation.

It's more likely that medical schools have far fewer slots than applicants, and they want to make sure that good students matriculate. Of course, there are superstars out there who apply with great GPAs and MCATs and experiences and LORs, but if a medical school isn't certain that person will matriculate, they'd be better off accepting someone lower on the list who is. If they all accept the same students, and each student can only attend one school, then each school that wasn't matriculated into has to dip back into their waitlist until the spots are filled. The trouble is that this whole process takes time, and while they're going back to their waitlist, the top waitlist students matriculate at other schools, forcing the original school to dip lower into the waitlist.

I bet the reason a lot of excellent students get rejected from schools that mediocre students get into has a lot to do with how likely the school thinks they are to matriculate.

And how early they applied.

And voodoo.
Click to expand...
I think that you make a lot of sense, neuroprotector, but maybe I that's because I really want you to be right. I want to think that med school admissions committees really look at how well students "fit" with their school. Yet, I can't help being skeptical that any school would turn away applicants for being "too good." Interviews seem very tough to gauge- I think that's where the unpredicatable element of the medical school process comes in. Maybe, without realizing it, an applicant will come across as a little bit snotty during an interview. Maybe someone with lower stats is so genuinely humble that the interviewer is blown away. Then again, who knows? Maybe voodoo is the answer. Perhaps a winter vacation in Haiti :laugh:?
-----------
I really want to hear an adcom's perspective on this topic. Maybe LizzyM will grace us with her presence?

I know that there's an endless supply of medical school admissions metaphors... but I think that this process seems a lot like dog shows There are dynamos with amazing breeding who are sure shots to win and there are unknowns who probably won't even get a 3rd place ribbon. Sometimes a less competitive dog ends up doing very, very well with one of the judges. Sometimes someone from the middle of the pack accidentally poops on the turf during the obedience round. Sometimes an unknown dog wins the gold medal after preparing really, really, really hard for a competition. Most of the time, the good dogs end up finishing first and the more mediocre ones do less well. Some shows heavily favor certain kinds of dogs- a gorgeous Shi Tzu with an amazing pedigree might lose big time in a show that focuses on agility, where a German Shepard/Doberman mix ends up taking home a trophy. In a show focused on grooming and appearance, the Shi Tzu would end up with that trophy. A small-town dog show might heavily favor a local family's pet over a three-time blue medal winner from a thousand miles away. The more competitions (and the more broad a range of competitions- winning a county fair is different from being the American Kennel Club champion) a dog enters, the better the chance of getting some kind of ribbon. Any dog that tries to do 60 competitions in two months will end up in the doggie hospital 😛.
 
I don't think "random" is the right word. Better word is "unpredictable." Schools don't randomly choose candidates to interview. They choose people who they think would be a good fit for their school AND would realistically want to go there. Unfortunately as an applicant, you cannot know which schools like you and which don't. You either have to pick your list of schools wisely, or simply apply to a lot and see what happens.
 
Corker said:
I'll bet there are a few people without acceptances this year that are thinking...hmmm....maybe sixty schools would have been a good idea...🙁
Click to expand...

I don't think I'm the only person who wishes they'd applied to less schools this year, not more...
 
drizzt3117 said:
I don't think I'm the only person who wishes they'd applied to less schools this year, not more...
Click to expand...

you mean "fewer" schools. how was your verbal?
 
And I'm talking about people WITHOUT any acceptances drizz!!! Of course you wish you hadn't wasted money or time...you have several interviews and acceptances!!!

By the way...congrats on those!😀
 
MDRus said:
I know, I'm sorry. I cannot help myself when the mistake is so blatant.
Click to expand...

whoa, i didn't even see a problem with "less". anyway, i certainly would have liked to apply to 300 schools this time around, but that would have involved taking out a home equity loan.
 
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