Am I crazy for picking USC over Michigan?

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Hysteria24

Hysteria24

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Forget about the SDN reputations of these schools for a sec, and hear me out.

I live in CA, would rather go to school in CA, and will eventually want to practice in southern CA. Everything about the campus and culture at USC fits me better than Michigan, and if PBL can work for any student, then I know it will work well with my personality. At USC I can take the regional boards out west, and have the alumni network to help start working in that area.

My reservations:
- The money of course ($130,000 more at USC after interest accrued during school).
- USC seems to still be working out the kinks (although improving which is a good sign), where Michigan is a more proven didactic curriculum, and many D4s finish clinical requirements well before the end of their forth year.
-Michigan may give me the edge to specialize, if I choose to later on.


Please no school bashing… Just looking to get your two cents, and to open up some dialogue to help me convince myself one way or the other…. So please chime in. :)
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I think USC will get its situation sorted out soon and they should have renovated the clinic by the time you're in it. If you think you can handle PBL, then you're not making a poor choice; it really works for some people, I know a D4 there who rocked the boards and is basically picking where he wants to do his OMFS residency, not where he thinks he'll be accepted.

Also, there is something to being in the "SC Family," lots of USC grads will only hire or go to other SC grads and because you want to practice in Southern California, you're probably making the better choice.
 
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USC may be working things out, but Michigan has nothing to work out.

Let's be serious for a second. Are you choosing USC because of the girls? I know they're beautiful and are very tempting, so I suspect that's the draw of USC despite a fragile curriculum. Your career's more important than scantily clad co-eds with perfect bodies. ...wait, what was I saying? Anyone seen any good dentist movies lately? That Dane Cook one wasn't bad.
 
Just to mirror my other post, if you go to USC you will be giving up:

Hysteria24 said:
Forget about the SDN reputations of these schools for a sec, and hear me out.

I live in CA, would rather go to school in CA, and will eventually want to practice in southern CA. Everything about the campus and culture at USC fits me better than Michigan, and if PBL can work for any student, then I know it will work well with my personality. At USC I can take the regional boards out west, and have the alumni network to help start working in that area.

My reservations:
- The money of course ($130,000 more at USC after interest accrued during school).
- USC seems to still be working out the kinks (although improving which is a good sign), where Michigan is a more proven didactic curriculum, and many D4s finish clinical requirements well before the end of their forth year.
-Michigan may give me the edge to specialize, if I choose to later on.


Please no school bashing… Just looking to get your two cents, and to open up some dialogue to help me convince myself one way or the other…. So please chime in. :)
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$130,000 is a small price to pay for living in southern california. If they hate, let 'em hate and watch them freeze their asses off in Michigan.
 
Haha, yeah, enjoy you 4 years of sitting in a library, simlab, clinic or wet lab waxing teeth and setting dentures IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

Big whoop de doo.
 
Current weather conditions in Ann Arbor, 4 F. Los Angeles, 53 F. (retrieved on google at time of posting)

I'd rather be in a prison cell in LA than on the beaches of Lake Michigan.
 
yeah, the sc alumni really take care of ya. "trojan family" is what they call it, and they are sooo concentrated in southern cali. so if you wanna practice in socal, you made the proper choice. and wouldnt you rather be working your butt off in sunny socal. i figure, with the little time youll have to enjoy urself while in school, you might as well enjoy what free time you do have in sunny socal. id be rather depressed if say....im slaving away in ann arbor, finish exams but cant do a thing because there is over 12 inches of snow being laid on the pavement over night!. eek!
 
dentstd said:
USC may be working things out, but Michigan has nothing to work out.
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Really? I find that a little hard to believe. USC may have quite a big thing to work out, but for anyone to say any dental school has nothing to work out at all is a bit far fetched. The opinions may differ from student to student even within a school, but I've yet to ever hear a dental student at any school say there is ABSOLUTELY nothing about their school they might want to tweak or change. At least when they thought no one else was listening.

armorshell said:
Haha, yeah, enjoy you 4 years of sitting in a library, simlab, clinic or wet lab waxing teeth and setting dentures IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

Big whoop de doo.
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well, I don't think I really need to write my response to this Armor. I've responded to similar posts like this sooooo many times already.
 
So I'm assuming Michigan is academically a better dental school than USC? (Just wanna know)
 
Hysteria24 said:
Forget about the SDN reputations of these schools for a sec, and hear me out.

I live in CA, would rather go to school in CA, and will eventually want to practice in southern CA. Everything about the campus and culture at USC fits me better than Michigan, and if PBL can work for any student, then I know it will work well with my personality. At USC I can take the regional boards out west, and have the alumni network to help start working in that area.

My reservations:
- The money of course ($130,000 more at USC after interest accrued during school).
- USC seems to still be working out the kinks (although improving which is a good sign), where Michigan is a more proven didactic curriculum, and many D4s finish clinical requirements well before the end of their forth year.
-Michigan may give me the edge to specialize, if I choose to later on.

Please no school bashing… Just looking to get your two cents, and to open up some dialogue to help me convince myself one way or the other…. So please chime in. :)
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In my opinion, money can be used but it can be earned. In the case of d-school, credit money. Still, if you're going to enjoy and hopefully, subsequently be more productive, in the 4 years at USC than Michigan, go with USC. But please don't have any illusions about it, there will be sacrifices that come with taking out that much in loans which I'm sure they've more or less told you about during the financial aid presentation. But you know you're own financial situation.

Same goes for PBL, if you are able to study in that situation. Personally, I could if put to it but I'd prefer (and for that reason, think I can do better in) good old fashion lectures.

If, with complete understanding of the situation you're signing up for at USC, are still inclined to go with USC for extracurricular reasons, then hell, go with USC.

Plus, you mentioned wanting to practice in SoCal. "At USC I can take the regional boards out west, and have the alumni network to help start working in that area." That's a definite perk with going with USC, if you reach out to them while at school that is.

"Everything about the campus and culture at USC fits me better than Michigan". That seems to be pretty good reason to go with USC. It's about you feeling good about where you're going to school. Just because so-and-so doesn't agree with it, they won't trekking to school every morning for you.

"Michigan may give me the edge to specialize, if I choose to later on."
I don't think this is true. You can do just as well at USC if you're willing to put the time in. My stance on this is completely in line with armorshell's. A school doesn't make you specialty-worthy, you do. With that said, if you don't do well with PBL and can't learn in that situation, you're not going to like school and will probably not want to progress further in the career. But same goes for if you do spectacular with PBL or studying at USC, in general, that may push you to extend further into the field of dentistry. But you should really look into yourself for whether you want to specialize.
 
djeffreyt said:
Really? I find that a little hard to believe. USC may have quite a big thing to work out, but for anyone to say any dental school has nothing to work out at all is a bit far fetched. The opinions may differ from student to student even within a school, but I've yet to ever hear a dental student at any school say there is ABSOLUTELY nothing about their school they might want to tweak or change. At least when they thought no one else was listening.
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When I typed that, I stared at the screen for a while. "Should I say 'nothing significant,' or 'nothing'? I KNOW there'll be SOMEone who can't see the big picture and take it literally. Eh, what tha heck. They should be able to see the difference between a far problematic curriculum and a practically sound one." Guess I was wrong.
 
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Money matters, goto Michigan!
 
Money does matter alot in these scenarios, you have to take the best deal. Essentially they are really all selling the same product. You can always move back to southern california when you are done. And if you grew up there, why don't you go and get a taste of something different.

I would have picked UofM, however the girls are hot at USC, you should try to get yourself a re-occuring role on The Hills that will solve all your problems:)
 
Let me start by saying thanks for all the input. This was exactly the dialogue I was looking to start as I wrestle with this decision. I did also double post this in the "Dental" forum, because I know there are quite a few posters on these boards that only read one or the other. Some have posted on both, so thanks as well.

Here are my thoughts on the money issue, which is always one of the big sticking points. Relates to this quote:

UNR.Grad said:
Also, there is something to being in the "SC Family," lots of USC grads will only hire or go to other SC grads and because you want to practice in Southern California, you're probably making the better choice.
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I know this is true, because I have a couple family memebers who went/are currently with other USC programs.

Back to money...

The price difference is large, and will be a greater up front investment for USC. However, If I can go to school in an area where I am going to practice, that gives me 4 years to start working on plans for after graduation. My regional boards will already be completed, and the extra time may possibly make for an easier transition into life after graduation in that area. That proximity, and connections made while in school, may also help me be more selective with an associateship that will set the foundationd for my dental career and future earning potential. Being more selective, and finding the best financial situation right out of school, could have a huge impact on earnings and may make the back end of the investment very profitable.


Of course… I could be blowing that all out of proportion. If that were all impossible, and coming out of USC I had no better leads to work in SoCal than coming out of Michigan, it would start to shift the balance of these two in my mind.
 
Composite A2 said:
You can always move back to southern california when you are done
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If I moved back to SoCal after graduation from Michigan, I would be $130,000 less in debt. However, before I make my first cent, I will need to find patients for the regional board, pass that, and then look for work in the area. Those costs will add up, but really won't get anything close to that dollar figure. Just more of a hassle I guess.

Michigan does not offer the WREB. Does anyone know how easy it is to go to a school like this, and try to get the WREB out of the way during school after I have spent all the time with my classmates preparing for the NERB?


Composite A2 said:
And if you grew up there, why don't you go and get a taste of something different
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I have lived in many different parts of CA. Never LA itself, so that would be new. There is a BIG part of me that would like to head somewhere random for 4 years. But at what costs getting back?
 
If I recall Michigan was about 41k/yr for out of state, while USC is 58k/yr according to their website...that brings it to a 68k difference over 4 years...still alot, but not as bad as you were saying earlier, unless I missed something. It sounds to me like your heart is in USC and that is where you would be happiest. I'd say to go with where you feel most comfortable and where you want to be. After all, it's only money.
 
I didnt crunch the numbers myself but the OP probably included cost of living and interest incurred while in dental school.
 
Jem27 said:
Still, if you're going to enjoy and hopefully, subsequently be more productive, in the 4 years at USC than Michigan, go with USC.
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I cannot say this with absolute certainty, as this is all speculation which makes it difficult. Don’t you wish you can sometimes do both, then go back and pick the better one? It would make many facets of life much easier.

Jem27 said:
But please don't have any illusions about it, there will be sacrifices that come with taking out that much in loans which I'm sure they've more or less told you about during the financial aid presentation. But you know you're own financial situation.
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100% loans for me! After crunching the numbers, USC will be an extra $919 a month for 25 years. I even used the Armorshell Finance Tool that I downloaded some time back, and plugged in these two schools to analyze what my budget will be like after tax and loans. That combined with some other number crunching lead me to this.

The take home pay after USC is the equivalent of me working a $46.500 salary job (non dental related) before taxes are taken out from that salary.
The take home pay after Michigan is the equivalent of me working at a $60,000 salary job (non dental related) before taxes.
It was fun to look at it that way.

Jem27 said:
Same goes for PBL, if you are able to study in that situation. Personally, I could if put to it but I'd prefer (and for that reason, think I can do better in) good old fashion lectures.
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At this point I would say I am more comfortable with lectures, since that is what we all have been with for so long. I know I could function well within PBL, but my only reservation seems like there are a lot less boundaries within this curriculum, leading to possible wasted time researching things that will eventually not be important for the given case (may lead to some frustration). Lectures on the other had ad more guided, and in a way more spoon-fed. They give you an outline of exactly what you need to know so long as you go study it.


Jem27 said:
Plus, you mentioned wanting to practice in SoCal. "At USC I can take the regional boards out west, and have the alumni network to help start working in that area." That's a definite perk with going with USC, if you reach out to them while at school that is.
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My thoughts exactly


Jem27 said:
But you should really look into yourself for whether you want to specialize.
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At this point, all I want to do is leave this option open incase it is something I would choose to do later on. Picking a school that could help with this path may benefit me if I make such a decision later.
 
DrSmiles12 said:
Money matters, goto Michigan!
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Money definitely matters, but so does your sanity. Can you hack the culture, winters, and the non-California like environment? If so, come to Michigan. I've lived here the majority of my life, and I have heard numerous examples of people coming from California that absolutely HATE it here. Many end up straight up depressed...no joke. There is no doubt that Michigan is one of the best, and Ann Arbor is a pretty cool small city...BUT, its not for everyone. Make your decision based on what is important to you.
 
Hysteria24 said:
I have lived in many different parts of CA. Never LA itself, so that would be new. There is a BIG part of me that would like to head somewhere random for 4 years. But at what costs getting back?
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I can tell you right now, those costs will not amount to 130k. Having some local contacts might be nice, but there are 100s of students from California who come back to the state after dental school every year, and I don't hear anything about them having trouble.
 
gogiantsss said:
I didnt crunch the numbers myself but the OP probably included cost of living and interest incurred while in dental school.
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Exactly! These numbers come straight from the information given out at the interviews regarding the total costs during 4 years of school. (tuition, equipment, living, etc…)

Michigan has an extra edge financially in this aspect too, because as many people at Michigan will say Ann Arbor is expensive, it doesn’t compare to LA.

The price difference is just over $100,000 but there is an extra $30,000 of accrued interest gained while at USC, leading to the $130,000 figure I gave.
 
armorshell said:
I can tell you right now, those costs will not amount to 130k. Having some local contacts might be nice, but there are 100s of students from California who come back to the state after dental school every year, and I don't hear anything about them having trouble.
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Yeah, this is where it gets a little hazy for us pre-dents to see. We become experts at getting from college to dental school, but still have a lot to learn about getting from dental school to the working world.

How do 4th years (3rd years in armorshell’s case) go about securing a job outside of school? Classifieds? School network? Luck?
 
No, not currently. I'm a non-trad applicant, and now live about 35 minutes north of AA. I applied late, so I'm playing the waiting game.
 
1. Ok, I'll chime in.

2. I agree with everyone on the money issue (130,000 is quite a bit of money); however, nothing is more valuable than your sanity.

3. You need to think very carefully about this. You do not want to get 2.5 years into dental school and say "f**k me, what have I done?".

4. In closing, in the long run (I mean 20 years out) your debt is not going to look as monstrous as it once did. Trust me. Inflation, consolidation, rising income for dentists, etc... Go where you will be happy.

5. Btw, I'm being completely bipartisan on this issue.
 
Columbia07 said:
2. I agree with everyone on the money issue (130,000 is quite a bit of money); however, nothing is more valuable than your sanity.
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The one thing I’ll add in regards to sanity is that I have heard of many students having no problem finishing all of their clinical requirements very early at Michigan. That, along with a lot of confidence in traditional the curriculum, and not having to rely others and make sure they get their stuff together, would help make someone very sane.


Columbia07 said:
4. In closing, in the long run (I mean 20 years out) your debt is not going to look as monstrous as it once did. Trust me. Inflation, consolidation, rising income for dentists, etc... .
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I was thinking the same thing. Annual inflation is around 3%. The money borrowed now is not worth nearly as much 10, 15, 20 years down the road.
 
1. PBL is set-up in the following way:

A. You are assigned to a cell (each cell has 24 students)

B. Next, you are assigned to a group w/in your cell (each group has 8 students).

C. You will spend ONE trimester with this group and then you will be shuffled amongst the 24 people in your cell to create 3 NEW groups of 8 for the following semester.

D. This will go on for approx. 3 years.

E. Each case will last approx. two wks (give or take 1 or 2 sessions).

F. Each meeting (Mon, Wed, Fri) you will be given a new part of the case.

G. The information in the case will help you and your group members come up with ideas (w/o using any references) and leaning needs.

H. You and your group members will make 8 learning needs, and each member of the group is assigned to one learning need. (The following represent A FEW learning need topics from my last case: pathophysiology of pharyngitis, the urea and BUN cycle, renal regulation of blood pressure, immune complexes and post-streptococcal glomerulopnephritis)

I. You have one day to research, understand and write-up a learning need on your topic.

J. Once all of the learning needs have been turned in (generally due around 3pm the following day), you will then have to read and understand the other 7 learning needs by 8am the next morning (generally 40-80 pages of reading ;))

K. Before your case starts, you will have a one hour mandatory pre-session with ONLY your group members--the professor will not be present. This is a time when you can ask other members about their learning needs or explain your learning need to the group.

L. After pre-session, the professor will show up and generally ask you questions about each learning needs for the next 45mins to 2hrs (really depends on who your professor is at the time). Some professors will grill the **** out of you, while others are much nicer.

M. You will then be given the next part of the case and continue this process over again.


I will post more in a few minutes about PBL learning, your group members, and exams. :D
 
Gosh... thats a lot of money, but some people can afford that.
Now if you are in my situation... LLLL OOOO LLLL when i apply for dental school, NYU, USC, Columbia are going to be my last resort hahaha
 
dentstd said:
When I typed that, I stared at the screen for a while. "Should I say 'nothing significant,' or 'nothing'? I KNOW there'll be SOMEone who can't see the big picture and take it literally. Eh, what tha heck. They should be able to see the difference between a far problematic curriculum and a practically sound one." Guess I was wrong.
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So what you are saying is that you assumed.

But that's alright...though for a big picture guy, you seem to be quick to write me off as having tunnel vision from only a singular comment.
 
djeffreyt said:
So what you are saying is that you assumed.

But that's alright...though for a big picture guy, you seem to be quick to write me off as having tunnel vision from only a singular comment.
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my apologies. I won't give you the benefit of the doubt next time.
 
1. PBL learning environment:

A. It's enjoyable if you like to learn. If you like to be told exactly what you should know for the next 40 yrs of your career, you may not like the PBL learning experience. I'm a big fan, but only because it fits my personality. There are some in my class that don't like it (I'd say they are the minority though--maybe 20-30 out of 144).

2. A lot of people are worried about group members not pulling their weight...

A. Listen, I've never had a group member not pull their weight and I've never met anyone who has said they had someone like this in their group. People will b**ch and complain, but they will do the work. It's very rare that you get a learning need that sucks (I've never had one, and I've probably seen, lets see, 6 cases, 5 parts each case, 8 learning needs per part = 180 learning needs, give or take in one semester. :eek:).

3. People are always worried about exams...

A. USC School of Dentistry administers exams during midterms and finals

B. The midterm and final exam block consist of 4-5 exams

C. Your first exam is a multiple choice exam (for the midterm, it will cover the first 3-4 cases and for the final, it will cover the last 3-4 cases). This exam generally has 180-250 questions and you will have 3 hrs to take it.

D. Your next exam will be a COMBOT, which is basically a picture exam. You sit in front of a computer and various pictures are shown and you need to answer questions pertaining to the picture(s) you're looking at. This exam generally has around 100 pictures (maybe 100-115 questions). You will be given three hours for this exam.

E. The multiple choice exam and the COMBOT are on the same day. You will get ~1-2 hour lunch between the exams.

F. Your third exam will be a triple jump. Most students want to poke their eyes about the time this part of the exam block roles around. This part of the exam block starts the day following your MCQ and COMBOT exams.

G. I'm not going to lie, triple jumps, for most people, are scary, nerve-wrecking, and generally a big, painful all-nighter. The first part of the triple jump (3 jumps) is a one hour session in which you're given a case and you, by yourself, must come up with the ideas and learning needs for that case. You need to look up and analyze all of the lab values (generally a full hematology and urinalysis) definitions to words you've never seen, diseases, symptoms, etc in ONE hour. You then turn this form in and go home and research your ideas and learning need topics for the next morning (the SECOND jump). When you are at home, you will have to not only understand your patient, but also investigate nearly every possible situation that could be causing your patient's problems, prepare a presentation and get enough sleep to look presentable at 9am the next morning. The final, THIRD jump is your presentation of your patient's case to two faculty members. You will have to convince them that you're not a dumb*ss. They will most likely grill you and make you feel like crap before sending you home (although I'm pretty charming, so I've never experienced any of the above feelings of hatred or defeat ;))

H. In addition, you will have weekly quizzes in your dental anatomy lecture and multiple projects due each week in your dental anatomy lab. I think we waxed up 13-15 teeth, carved 4 teeth from wax blocks and had a midterm (1 wax-up) and final (2 wax-ups) in there. Pretty self explanatory class. Relatively easy to get an A.

I. You will also have a screen and admitting rotation. Easy points.

J. You will also have a radiology rotation. Easy points.

K. You will also have a Doctors out to Care rotation (entire semester). Easy points.

Also, you need to do 32 assists (generally 2-4 hours in length), which you can start on your first semester.

What I described above was my first semester. Pretty basic. I did well (straight A's), so it's not impossible.

Let me know if you have any other concerns.
 
armorshell said:
I can tell you right now, those costs will not amount to 130k. Having some local contacts might be nice, but there are 100s of students from California who come back to the state after dental school every year, and I don't hear anything about them having trouble.
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my sisters bf went to temple, came back, and had trouble finding positions in cities he wanted. he had to settle in fresno(eeeek!)
 
In response to Columbia07's description of PBL. That seems like ALOT of extra work added in addition to the curriculum. Anyone agree? This was the feeling I got when I interviewed at Indiana. Anyone in a PBL based program think the extra work make you more prepared to practice? Just curious...
 
jdoc04 said:
In response to Columbia07's description of PBL. That seems like ALOT of extra work added in addition to the curriculum. Anyone agree? This was the feeling I got when I interviewed at Indiana. Anyone in a PBL based program think the extra work make you more prepared to practice? Just curious...
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Let me clarify.

We're more PBL than traditional, although, technically we're not 100% PBL anymore. So, while it may seem like a lot of work, it's pretty manageable.
 
UCDavisdude said:
my sisters bf went to temple, came back, and had trouble finding positions in cities he wanted. he had to settle in fresno(eeeek!)
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That’s my worst fear!



jdoc04 said:
That seems like ALOT of extra work added in addition to the curriculum. Anyone agree?
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In my opinion, that extra work is the curriculum. Organized “class” time is only half the day, so instead of sitting in class the remainder of the day, students do the work described which is more hands on and interactive. I don’t see it as extra work…just different work.

The motto at the place I used to teach at: “Education through exploration.”
 
Hysteria24 said:
In my opinion, that extra work is the curriculum. Organized “class” time is only half the day, so instead of sitting in class the remainder of the day, students do the work described which is more hands on and interactive. I don’t see it as extra work…just different work.

The motto at the place I used to teach at: “Education through exploration.”
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I would agree unless the PBL adds more out of class work in addition to studying for courses, practicing waxing, 2nd year pre-clinical projects. That was the biggest problem the students I spoke with at Indiana. In reality you never truely know how it will be until your there.

By the way, I hate your avatar!! I'm a Stars fan and he was such a pest when he played for San Jose and the Avs!! LOL!!:laugh::laugh:
 
If you pick USC over Michigan the ONLY advantage you will get is you will be living in CA! :laugh:
I love CA but I think you are crazy for picking USC over Michigan...
 
PBL or not, I would say the one major drawback for me about USC is the tuition. If I were you I just wouldn't be able to overlook that 130,000...
 
jigabodo said:
PBL or not, I would say the one major drawback for me about USC is the tuition. If I were you I just wouldn't be able to overlook that 130,000...
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Not only that but the cost of living in the area is crazy! Living in Cali is pretty spendy compared to Mich isn't it?
 
DrSmiles12 said:
Not only that but the cost of living in the area is crazy! Living in Cali is pretty spendy compared to Mich isn't it?
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I live in Cali and have many friends here as well. It's a great city but the living expenses are indeed outrageous. My friend pays 1,600 a month just for rent...
 
jdoc04 said:
By the way, I hate your avatar!! I'm a Stars fan and he was such a pest when he played for San Jose and the Avs!! LOL!!:laugh::laugh:
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That's pretty awesome! I never thought anybody here would recognize who that was. (Mike Ricci, a retired hockey player for those that don't). He was a big pest, which is why he ending up losing all of his anterior teeth as you can somewhat see in the pic.

There's a funny story about him too that I pulled from another site:

"Mike Ricci, the rat-faced ugliest man in pro hockey was approached by a groupie one evening in a bar. She basically went on with things like "you're so sexy...blah blah blah", stuff like that. Ricci, fully aware of who he is responded by taking out his false teeth and sticking them in her drink, saying "how sexy am I now?"
class act, Mr. Ricci. bravo."

How it relates to this thread…. I did play hockey for my university during undergrad, still like to play, and Michigan is one of the few, if any dental schools with an ice rink on its campus!
 
Hysteria24 said:
That's pretty awesome! I never thought anybody here would recognize who that was. (Mike Ricci, a retired hockey player for those that don't). He was a big pest, which is why he ending up losing all of his anterior teeth as you can somewhat see in the pic.

There's a funny story about him too that I pulled from another site:

"Mike Ricci, the rat-faced ugliest man in pro hockey was approached by a groupie one evening in a bar. She basically went on with things like "you're so sexy...blah blah blah", stuff like that. Ricci, fully aware of who he is responded by taking out his false teeth and sticking them in her drink, saying "how sexy am I now?"
class act, Mr. Ricci. bravo."

How it relates to this thread…. I did play hockey for my university during undergrad, still like to play, and Michigan is one of the few, if any dental schools with an ice rink on its campus!
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Hahahaha that great!!! U of M has a great hockey program as well which would be cool to watch. As far as your thread...I think you already know this just go where you feel more comfortable. Good luck with your decision!!
 
I don't know if u noticed....but most people (not everyone) in pre-dents are telling you to go where you feel most comfortable and most people in the dental forum are telling you to go where you will have less debt. I think most of us pre-dents have the "Oh well, I'm taking loans anyways, so what's a 100,000 more?" mentality and forget about the interest on that loan.
 
You're going to have paid over 1 million dollars if you go through a 20 year repayment program. Significantly less if you go to michigan...........
 
Columbia07 said:
1. PBL learning environment:

A. It's enjoyable if you like to learn. If you like to be told exactly what you should know for the next 40 yrs of your career, you may not like the PBL learning experience. I'm a big fan, but only because it fits my personality. There are some in my class that don't like it (I'd say they are the minority though--maybe 20-30 out of 144).

2. A lot of people are worried about group members not pulling their weight...

A. Listen, I've never had a group member not pull their weight and I've never met anyone who has said they had someone like this in their group. People will b**ch and complain, but they will do the work. It's very rare that you get a learning need that sucks (I've never had one, and I've probably seen, lets see, 6 cases, 5 parts each case, 8 learning needs per part = 180 learning needs, give or take in one semester. :eek:).

3. People are always worried about exams...

A. USC School of Dentistry administers exams during midterms and finals

B. The midterm and final exam block consist of 4-5 exams

C. Your first exam is a multiple choice exam (for the midterm, it will cover the first 3-4 cases and for the final, it will cover the last 3-4 cases). This exam generally has 180-250 questions and you will have 3 hrs to take it.

D. Your next exam will be a COMBOT, which is basically a picture exam. You sit in front of a computer and various pictures are shown and you need to answer questions pertaining to the picture(s) you're looking at. This exam generally has around 100 pictures (maybe 100-115 questions). You will be given three hours for this exam.

E. The multiple choice exam and the COMBOT are on the same day. You will get ~1-2 hour lunch between the exams.

F. Your third exam will be a triple jump. Most students want to poke their eyes about the time this part of the exam block roles around. This part of the exam block starts the day following your MCQ and COMBOT exams.

G. I'm not going to lie, triple jumps, for most people, are scary, nerve-wrecking, and generally a big, painful all-nighter. The first part of the triple jump (3 jumps) is a one hour session in which you're given a case and you, by yourself, must come up with the ideas and learning needs for that case. You need to look up and analyze all of the lab values (generally a full hematology and urinalysis) definitions to words you've never seen, diseases, symptoms, etc in ONE hour. You then turn this form in and go home and research your ideas and learning need topics for the next morning (the SECOND jump). When you are at home, you will have to not only understand your patient, but also investigate nearly every possible situation that could be causing your patient's problems, prepare a presentation and get enough sleep to look presentable at 9am the next morning. The final, THIRD jump is your presentation of your patient's case to two faculty members. You will have to convince them that you're not a dumb*ss. They will most likely grill you and make you feel like crap before sending you home (although I'm pretty charming, so I've never experienced any of the above feelings of hatred or defeat ;))

H. In addition, you will have weekly quizzes in your dental anatomy lecture and multiple projects due each week in your dental anatomy lab. I think we waxed up 13-15 teeth, carved 4 teeth from wax blocks and had a midterm (1 wax-up) and final (2 wax-ups) in there. Pretty self explanatory class. Relatively easy to get an A.

I. You will also have a screen and admitting rotation. Easy points.

J. You will also have a radiology rotation. Easy points.

K. You will also have a Doctors out to Care rotation (entire semester). Easy points.

Also, you need to do 32 assists (generally 2-4 hours in length), which you can start on your first semester.

What I described above was my first semester. Pretty basic. I did well (straight A's), so it's not impossible.

Let me know if you have any other concerns.
Click to expand...

Very, very helpful about what the PBL is like at USC! Great and very detailed post! If you could repost this in the following thread: Answer these Questions about Your dental School
it would be very helpful (under additional info - what is PBL at USC?)
 
Hysteria24 said:
Forget about the SDN reputations of these schools for a sec, and hear me out.

I live in CA, would rather go to school in CA, and will eventually want to practice in southern CA. Everything about the campus and culture at USC fits me better than Michigan, and if PBL can work for any student, then I know it will work well with my personality. At USC I can take the regional boards out west, and have the alumni network to help start working in that area.

My reservations:
- The money of course ($130,000 more at USC after interest accrued during school).
- USC seems to still be working out the kinks (although improving which is a good sign), where Michigan is a more proven didactic curriculum, and many D4s finish clinical requirements well before the end of their forth year.
-Michigan may give me the edge to specialize, if I choose to later on.


Please no school bashing… Just looking to get your two cents, and to open up some dialogue to help me convince myself one way or the other…. So please chime in. :)
Click to expand...

Here is the current D1 budget at USC:

Living Arrangements: Off Campus Housing/ Off Campus Housing
Tuition $ 61,953
Fees 6,243
Equipment 4,553
Room & Board 17,532
Personal/Misc. 2,436
Transportation 2,700
Total $ 95,417
 
burton117 said:
Here is the current D1 budget at USC:

Living Arrangements: Off Campus Housing/ Off Campus Housing
Tuition $ 61,953
Fees 6,243
Equipment 4,553
Room & Board 17,532
Personal/Misc. 2,436
Transportation 2,700
Total $ 95,417
Click to expand...

Yep, yep… I got the whole breakdown for all 4 years at the interview, as I assume you did too.

I’ve been doing lots of number crunching to determine how this decision will affect me 5, 10, 20 years down the road.

Looking at your predents account, are you heading to USC or holding out hope for elsewhere?
 
Hysteria24 said:
Yep, yep… I got the whole breakdown for all 4 years at the interview, as I assume you did too.

I’ve been doing lots of number crunching to determine how this decision will affect me 5, 10, 20 years down the road.

Looking at your predents account, are you heading to USC or holding out hope for elsewhere?
Click to expand...

I am still undecided at this point. But money seems to be the main issue.
 
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