Which school?? Helping You Help Yourself

I am kind of concerned about facility cleanliness- the school is quality, but the labs on our tour weren't exactly in pristine condition. Same for most of the buildings- pretty old. But should this really impact our decision?

Thanks for the good advice. In a few weeks, I am going to start the process of seriously weighing these factors between two school in my area. It's a pleasant problem to have, but it is not so easy to do.

LizzyM, thanks for the helpful post. I have one question about the last thing on your list - how much does school reputation really matter, in your opinion? (I'm thinking #2 vs. #20 or something like that). I know it's been discussed to death on here, but here I go asking again...

Thanks for this post. i actually did somethign like this a while ago, and have filled it out for every school that i got into or waitlisted at, as well as the three that i have interviewed at but not heard a decision yet. I was surprised to find that almost all of my schools, though extremely different, were very close. I made each thing worth a different number of points depending on how important they were to me, for instance location was 20, reputation/name was 5, simulation facilities, 15, diversity and lgbt life 15, etc. etc. etc. Almost every one of my schools scored between 78-82, a fairly negligible difference. My two top choices, which i still haven't heard from, were closer to 90. So i guess no big surprises. But when the schools are that close, how do you recommend differentiating?

LizzyM - keeping it real on SDN since 2005. As always, thanks for the information.

thanks for your post LizzyM. They are always informative and it's comforting to have someone on the other side of the app. process.

LizzyM said:

How important is it to you? How much does it matter to you? If it doesn't matter, leave it off your list.

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Well see, that's the troubling thing. There are several things I feel are important, but perhaps they're really not that important after all. Like early patient contact, I've heard this is overrated. Prestige of a particular school, valuable or not? Cost of school, should this even be considered? etc.

For example:
In some way, I feel that attending a prestigious school recognizes my past achievements and rewards my hardwork over the years. Also, I feel that the name recognition and opportunities of said prestigious school will help launch me toward my specialty pursuits. Pretty petty stuff, I know. That's why I'm not sure I should even value what I feel. Does any of that crap even matter in the grand scheme of things?

On the other hand, I value staying near friends and family, and would like to remain close to home. I don't really want to move hundreds of miles away from the people I'm close to (and pay a good deal more to do so). But are those even legitimate reasons to choose say, Wayne State over Hopkins? I doubt it, and apparently people posting on my mdapps agree (calling me an "idiot" )

I'm thankful to have choices, but I really don't know what criteria I should even be using in making a choice.

Fisko, I'm kind of having the same dilemma. Not as extreme, I guess, as Wayne State and JHU, but I still wonder if it really is a huge mistake to go to a lesser ranked school over a Hopkins or Harvard. I know I'm very lucky to have these choices, but it seems like I'll be making my decision largely based on prestige. It's kind of a shame, because I'm not sure the "best" school I got into (or will get into) is the best fit for me.

Well, I'll do what LizzyM recommended, and rank my priorities. Then I'll see how it all comes out.

LizzyM said:

Next time you go to a restaurant, walk up to a stranger and ask that person to order your meal for you. Eat whatever is ordered for you and pay the bill.

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Ah, but in this analogy you're not another customer, you're the waiter. So which would you recommend - the six layer double chocolate cake, the white chocolate mousse, or the New York cheesecake? They all look so good!

Yeah, but a waiter might just recommend the most expensive item!

LEdaddy said:

Yeah, but a waiter might just recommend the most expensive item!

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That's definitely true of the prehealth advising people I've run into. Full ride at top 15? Doesn't matter! Go with your top 5 acceptance and thousands of dollars in loans!

fisko82 said:

I'm thankful to have choices, but I really don't know what criteria I should even be using in making a choice.

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Right! There are so many things to consider. I feel that LOGICALLY, price should rule my decision, and so there goes my problem. Baylor it is.

But as much as I am in awe of the TMC, and I like Baylor's curriculum and international programs...I grew up in Houston. I'm ready to leave Texas for the next four years. I sacrificed my choice school for money when I chose my undergrad school, and this time, by god, I want to go wherever *I* want to go, regardless of price. Also, Baylor still doesn't have a MD/MPH program, which blows my mind (in a bad way.)

Cornell - I have always wanted to live in NYC. Furthermore, where better to study public health? And I got that "good feeling" when I was there. However, they don't have the MPH either (though of course there are ways to leave for a year and go get it.) And I was pumped about PBL until lately, when I've started to hear that PBL is the worst thing ever and "a waste of time." Uh oh....

Emory - I really liked the students here, the facilities are brand spanking new and amazing, I liked the hospitals, Atlanta has weather that suits me, and the Rollins school of public health throws me directly into the path of the CDC, which is sooooo cool. Their curriculum is kinda in flux right now, so I don't know how I feel about that. And Grady, the big public teaching hospital, is in dire financial trouble.

AHHHHH!!! There are so many pluses and minuses, I don't know what to do.
You guys don't need to weigh in on these choices specifically, I was just ranting. Unless you have some sort of comment on what I should weigh most heavily in making my decision, I think I'm beyond help at the moment....guess I'll wait for fin aid packages & second looks!

here's an example of what you guys can use to rank your schools according to personal preference....

44. Vanderbilt_________
First Year Student Budget: $56,090 Score: 0.25
Financial Aid/ etc…: This school has a pretty strong financial structure…capable of offering a variety of financial assistance options to students…Loans: Vanderbilt has several university-sponsored loan programs (in addition to the Stafford Loans available via the govt.)....However, Vandy recently implemented a new policy stating that only students who CANNOT obtain a govt loan would have access to the Vanderbilt Medical School Loans…Loans range from $1,100 to $34,000….Scholarships: Vandy offers a very very very large selection of need-based and merit-based scholarships to ALL students (you should check out the list…pretty amazing)…many of the scholarships are either full tuition scholarships or partial tuition scholarships (that is really cool)…..% of Enrolled Students Receiving Financial Aid: 86%, Average Amount per Scholarship/Grant: $24,851, Average 2006 Graduate Indebtedness: $110,173
Score: 4.25
Curriculum/etc…: Very integrated curriculum designed to truly enhance the learning environment…Specific: Curriculum relies heavily on various means of presenting material…i.e. VMS utilizes traditional lectures, small-group discussions, laboratory sessions, PBL/Case based lectures, and seminars to adduce learning (always beneficial to have various methods for presenting material)… Curriculum is also extremely flexible (will discuss throughout this section)…Specifics: Curriculum organized using a block schedule system where a group of integrated courses are taken together…then the second group of integrated courses are not taken till after the other set of courses are completed. First Year (VMSI): Students take Molecular Foundation of Medicine – Integrated presentation of topics in Biochemistry, Cell Biology, and Genetics; Structure Function and Development – Integrated presentation of Gross Anatomy, Histology, Embryology, and Physiology; Microbiology and Immunology; Patient, Profession, and Society I – course is one of the two courses that students take during all three block sessions…course consists of a mix of classroom and experiential components (basic emergency skills, CPR, simulations, intro to community health services)….During Block 1: Focus on patient's experience of illness and MD-patient relationship and students participate in a clinical preceptorship…During Block 2: Each student assigned to a patient with a chronic illness, and the development of communication skills is emphasized….During Block 3: Focus shifts to health systems – policy, law, and economics (this is cool), and students rotate through interdisciplinary clinics (Diabetes, Asthma, CHF, cystic fibrosis); Emphasis Program – The Emphasis Program is a unique mode of self-directed study which takes place during the first two years of medical school. This program aims to harness the student's skills, talents, and passions by allowing them to pursue a project of their choosing. There are several focus areas of this program from, from which students choose as a particular emphasis…focus group areas include: Biomedical Informatics, Community Health, Education, Health Research and Management, International Health, Laboratory-Based Biomedical Research, Law and Policy, Medical Humanities, Patient-Oriented Research…Specifics of Program: During the first half of the fall semester, VMS I students are exposed to each of the areas in the Emphasis Program. They acquire an understanding of the unique characteristics of the individual areas by learning how scholars in these areas identify and investigate important questions. During this period, with the help of faculty emphasis advisors, the students blog in a formal way upon this experience as a means to clarify their understanding of what it takes to be a leader and a scholar. In the second half of the fall semester, students meet with the Emphasis area committees to discuss project opportunities and to begin meeting with potential mentors in order to select a project of their choosing. Once the mentor and project are identified, the student and mentor join an emphasis area. For the subsequent eighteen months, the mentor is vital to the student’s success in the Emphasis Program. During the spring semester of the first year, students devote two half-days each week to learning more about their emphasis area and planning and initiating their projects, which they then pursue full-time for an eight-week period in the summer. During both semesters of VMSII, they will continue to pursue their projects in collaboration with their mentors. There are two half-days each week are scheduled for them to complete the work and prepare their projects for presentation. At the conclusion of the two year program, students present their work, by poster or oral presentation at the Emphasis Forum, a medical school wide event (that is really really cool…to me at least)….First Year Courses Continued: Foundations of the Profession – two week course that introduces the foundations of medicine in the 21st Century…foundations covered: Professionalism, Cultural Competence, Health Systems, Communications Skills, Decision Making, Interdisciplinary Teams, Evidence Based Medicine, Lifelong Learning and Self-reflection, and Safety and Quality Improvement; Intersessions – focus on a chronic illness that illustrates basic science principles covered in previous blocks (this probably helps make material stick since applicability is demonstrated)… provides comprehensive integration of basic science, clinical medicine and the social, cultural and economic aspects of medicine; Elective – students have the flexibility in their schedule to take 3 one-semester electives during their firs two years…year one elective options are quite extensive….Second Year: focus obviously shifts to focus on pathological aspects of human function/structure….Students take: Disease, Diagnosis, and Therapeutics – Integrated approach to pathology, pharmacology, pathophysiology, laboratory diagnosis and imaging; Emphasis Program – see above description; Patient, Profession, and Society II – The second year of the course focuses on preventive medicine and public health, and clinical epidemiology….students continue to follow their assigned patients (that is really cool that they stay assigned to them), Neuroscience – Integration of basic neuroscience, neuropathology, neuropharmacology, psychiatry and neuro-imaging; Introduction to Clinical Medicine; Intersessions (for year 2); and Elective Opportunities….Third Year: Clerkship TIME!!! 11 weeks Medicine, 11 weeks (surgery…wow…that’s longer than most other places), Pediatrics (5 ½ weeks), OB/GYN (5 ½ weeks), Psychiatry (5 ½ weeks), Neurology (5 ½ weeks); and 1 week of Intersessions – coverage of interdisciplinary aspects and basic science pertinent to following clerkships…this is pass/fail…must be passed to progress to fourth year….Fourth Year: Consists of a schedule of various selectives and electives (rotations)...Emergency Medicine; Capstone Course – consists of Carefully selected cases that provide integration of basic sciences, clinical medicine, ethics, social issues, public health, etc., and an elective or specialized component the student chooses to suit personal academic needs….fourth year highlighted by flexibility (pretty standard)….Curricular Innovations: Center for Experiential Learning and Assessment (currently under construction) – center will contain state of the art simulation labs, high fidelity patient simulations (simulators, educational technology, and facilities capable of supporting the full range of clinical domains and activities), virtual and mixted reality simulators (e.g., partial task trainers for arthroscopy, endoscopy, laparoscopy, bronchoscopy, central vascular interventions, etc.), computer based educational software…There is a current simulation program available as well….standardized patient program…QUITE NICE!!! Grading Intervals: 4 grade interval (High Pass/Honors/Pass/Fail or equivalent) for required basic sciences and clinical clerkships, 2 grade interval (Pass/Fail) for basic science electives.
Score: 18+++++++++++++++++++++++++
#Affiliated Hospitals/Clinical Facilities: 10 with several supporting clinics and outpatient centers Score: 9
Selection Factors: Private, Rolling, Screens (I hope pass this screening), very selective (Oh God please grant me a secondary), Average (2006) GPA: 3.76 (dammit…hahahahaha), Overall Median GPA: 3.83, Median Science GPA: 3.82, Average (2006) MCAT: 33.9 (11.3 in each section), Median MCAT: 35Q…Breakdown: V: 11, P: 12, B: 12, writing: Q (Ranges: V: 6 – 15, P: 7 – 15, B: 8 – 15, writing: L – T), 4373 applications for 993 interview spots Score: 1.75
Diversity: 13% URM, 27% Minority Score: 11.5
Dual Degree Options: Plenty of options here: MD/MPH, MD/MBA, MD/PhD, MD/MTS, MD/MDiv, MD/Med, MD/MS BME, MD/MS BMI, MD/MS CS, MD/MS ME….yeah…plenty of options Score: 7++++++++++++++++++
Student Support: Seemingly strong Office of Diversity in Medical Education...responsible for the development of many supporting initiatives designed to increase the diversity of the student body…One particular initiative focus primarily on minority student development and success. This office also collaborates with other national organizations in forming alliances to support minority representation in biomedical research/healthcare/etc......also sponsors community outreach programs…responsible for linkage with Meharry Medical School…Very prominent SNMA (pretty large group…especially considering the size of each class)...various other student support groups available as well…Office of Student Affairs: provides a network of support systems, programs and events for students….office is responsible for organizing 1st and 2nd year curriculum fairs to provide students with assistance in choosing electives…Students are also provided with many options for seeking tutoring services through this office….Overall this school has a strong counseling support network….Both peer and adult counselors are available to students…Students also have access to peer mentors and are matched up with faculty mentors once they enter third year (and have a much more specific idea about their interests)…Rising second year students are responsible for compiling a new addition of “The Paddle” a medical guide for Vanderbilt Medical Students…This student guide serves as a tool that incoming students can use in becoming acclimated to the city and to the rigor of the curriculum. Curricular Support: Biomedical Library, Office of Teaching and Learning in Medicine – will house the Center for Experiential Learning and Assessment….which will house all the nice simulation labs and computer modeling software (quite nice) Score: 10.5
Housing: on campus and off campus (non-affiliated are available)….B/c of southern location, rent is pretty cheap…possibility to purchase property and make $$$$ while in medical school. Score: 5
Location: Nashville, Tennessee….yes…country as hell…but I’m cool with that…definitely a diverse patient population…even a growing Hispanic population present (that’s cool)…sprawling city, poor public transportation, but great opportunity for purchasing real estate while in medical school Score: 5
Class Size: 106….so approximately 11% of interviewees matriculate…however, the Office of Admissions says they admit approximately 250 students…so 25% of interviewees are accepted Score: 1
Residency Match List: 38% of past graduates entered primary care residency programs, the other 62% of past graduates have entered non-primary care residency programs (their collection of matches over the past 9 years is quite impressive).
Volunteer/Research Opportunities: Vanderbilt has truly established itself as not only a major research institution, but also as a premier leader in community outreach/service/initiatives….Let’s see…where do I begin (lol)….VMS currently manages 3 community initiatives/outreach programs in collaboration with VUMC: 1. Blood Drive, 2. Project Pencil, 3. Youth Mentoring Program, 4. Explorer’s Program (see website for details on all of them)….The University has also built and maintained “one of the most successful” medical clinics, The Vine Hill Community Clinic, designed to tackle the void of available healthcare services for the underserved…Clinic has recently undergone a major expansion that has doubled its size…is now capable of not only handling more patients per day, but also has enough room to offer other critically necessary healthcare services (such as dental care)….Student are also heavily involved in community outreach/service…There are SEVERAL (I really mean SEVERAL) different student-run organizations that are extremely involved in the community. Here are a list of some of the major student-run volunteer organizations: AIDS Outreach, Encouraging Decisions that Give Empowerment (EDGE), Physicians for Human Rights, VMS-OASIS Project (actually a student-run community initiative), etc… VMS students have also formed partnerships (created a chapter) to national volunteer organizations, such as Operation Smile….Student-Run Free Health Clinic: Shady Tree Clinic – goal is to address the acute and chronic health needs of uninsured and underinsured patients in the East Nashville area….Lastly: VMS maintains a list of local, national, and international volunteer opportunities for students (it is a huge list: http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/medschool/spec_ops/search.php?searchvalue=volunteer opportunity) …..Research: VMS is definitely an established research institution where cutting edge, ground breaking research is conducted. Students have several opportunities to become involved in research projects...one way is through the Emphasis Program…There are also many summer opportunities for students, such as the Medical Student Summer Research Scholarship Program (for MSI’s and MSII’s) – Program sponsored by the Child Neurology Foundation…Selected applicants receive a $3500 scholarship for their summer project. Another summer research opportunity: Summer-Clinical Research in Emergency Medicine…Many other summer research opportunities are available in the online listing provided (see website)… Students can also obtain research experience through individual means via contacting labs….etc….Students who are interested in gaining in-depth research experience beyond summer research programs can opt to apply to the Medical Scholars Program – The Medical Scholars Program is a one year-in-depth research experience available to Vanderbilt medical students. Its goal is to foster an interest in research among medical students that may eventually lead to the pursuit of a career in academic medicine. This program integrates with other research opportunities available to medical students including Introduction to Biomedical Research and Summer Research Opportunities….This program adds an additional year to the traditional medical school curriculum….Overall VMS has several research facilities…with 3 primary research buildings…total research space at VMS is 578,000 square feet….School has a myriad of major research centers and institutes…Vanderbilt-Ingram Cancer Center nationally designated cancer center by the National Cancer Institute (NCI…branch of the NIH)…This school has been recognized for its rapidly developing research programs (see NIH stats…and academic news media for stats)….Total NIH Funding: $244,158,993 (rank: 15th), Total NIH Research Funding: $225,397,018 Score: 12++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Miscellaneous: Why is it that it seems all these great schools have the most amazing package to offer? (yeah, that’s a rhetorical question)…damn I wish they were not ALL reaches for me…lol….Cool supporting videos…I really liked the diversity video…This school has become one of my favorite…I so hope I get an interview…Cost of Secondary: $50 Score: 3++++++++++++++++++++

Total Score:

That is a ridiculously long post, Riceman.

Anyway, I think its a little far fetched and reductionistic to think you'll be able to quantify things that are important to you to the point where you are making your decision on composite scores. Could you imagine trying to pick a date like that? The whole process of choosing a med school is subjective and personal. I don't understand the pressure to rationalize your desires into neat quantifiable categories. Take joy that you are not an adcom instead of trying to emulate their decision making process.

Drogba said:

That is a ridiculously long post, Riceman.

Anyway, I think its a little far fetched and reductionistic to think you'll be able to quantify things that are important to you to the point where you are making your decision on composite scores. Could you imagine trying to pick a date like that? The whole process of choosing a med school is subjective and personal. I don't understand the pressure to rationalize your desires into neat quantifiable categories. Take joy that you are not an adcom instead of trying to emulate their decision making process.

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Face: beautiful blue eyes, but nose is a little crooked and she has a pimple above her left eyebrow. Teeth are fairly clean and smile is ok. score;3.2

Boobs- a little lopsided but a solid C Score:2.1
Rearend- Nonexistent- score: -12

I want to go wherever LizzyM is

i know

I have SO many areas to consider because I am not just considering my preferences but my husband's and children's as well. I have to decide between three schools and I just can't figure out which on is the best choice.

School 1) - the school is excellent, but the city is not a good place for my children for various reasons. Also, the first two years we would continue to live where we are, which is nice - but my husband and I both would like to get away from his family already.

School 2) - I enjoyed the environment, the community is excellent for my children, my husband even has a job there, but when I was told during my interview that they had research going on in the area of my interest and then called about a research job and found out that they have M4s on waiting lists and the fact that the school is ranked 50 is making me change my mind. Also, when making a budget this school gets us in the most debt.

School 3)- excellent world famous research institute with Nobel laureates as M1 teachers and lots of research in my area of interest. The area is beautiful, my family would love to live there. The school is inexpensive and my husband has a job there as well. Debt from this school is equal to debt of my state school. Everything is rocking there - except I will be an FMG!

LizzyM said:

It is strictly "don't ask, don't tell".

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Have you ever seen an application that you knew was from a SDNer? I think that would be kinda awkward.

Thanks for this post-- hopefully I'll be able to add a few more schools to my comparison list by April

I totally agree with LizzyM here. The list and comparison is a good idea. I did it with college and ended up going to one of the schools I didn't want to go to because of cost for my parents, and I pretty much hated my first 3/5 years; however, I don't have much undergrad debt.

For med school, my choices weren't as numerous (acceptance to state school + multiple waitlists), so my choices went basically to reapplying or going to a school where I'd be miserable. I already spent most of college being miserable (the last 2 years weren't so bad as the first 3), so I didn't want to spend all of med school being miserable. Once I got off the waitlist of my school now, that meant turning down my state school's tuition and going to weather I don't particularly like. I can't imagine being at the state school now. I think the school I'm at is one of the best decisions I made (albeit, my mom and I had to fight my dad because he was just about to force me to go to the state school if I didn't get off the waitlist. He didn't want to let me reapply.)

what's FMG?

RPedigo said:

Have you ever seen an application that you knew was from a SDNer? I think that would be kinda awkward.

Thanks for this post-- hopefully I'll be able to add a few more schools to my comparison list by April

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Everyone knows you will, just wait a few more weeks when the ivies start letting everyone know.

LizzyM said:

Next time you go to a restaurant, walk up to a stranger and ask that person to order your meal for you. Eat whatever is ordered for you and pay the bill.

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no joke, i've done this 3 times in my life. not once have i been disappointed.

Drogba said:

That is a ridiculously long post, Riceman.

Anyway, I think its a little far fetched and reductionistic to think you'll be able to quantify things that are important to you to the point where you are making your decision on composite scores. Could you imagine trying to pick a date like that? The whole process of choosing a med school is subjective and personal. I don't understand the pressure to rationalize your desires into neat quantifiable categories. Take joy that you are not an adcom instead of trying to emulate their decision making process.

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Yeah...I do realize that but I honestly think this will allow me to be at least a little more objective in my decision making process. Emotion and so called prestige can easily cloud ones judgement. So why not ensure that you are not making what could be a life changing decision based solely on subjective and constantly changing emotions. I made my decision to attend undergrad according to subjective pressures with only a slight understanding of why I wanted to attend Rice. Of course, I had a great time at Rice, but I never even attempted to fully consider all of my options

I see this as trying to understand my interest...and there are certain things I do not want to overlook in making my decision.

What you are suggesting is basically that we allow pretty much the majority of our decision making process to be completely subjective.



...thanks for making fun of me though...my day has started out awesome...


I'm just trying to do my homework...and I'll be that much better prepared when I do interview at schools....Dang Drogba!

For one of the schools I withdrew from, they sent me a 24 question survey ranking that school vs. the school I'm going to and how important each factor was in accepting/declining the school. I didn't add up points but they probably came out pretty even... sometimes you have to go with a feeling.

fisko82 said:

Well see, that's the troubling thing. There are several things I feel are important, but perhaps they're really not that important after all. Like early patient contact, I've heard this is overrated.

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Personally, for my list, I'd modify LizzyM's "earliest patient contact (M1, M2, M3)" to be "earliest consistent, quality patient contact".

You're right, in that it's hard to argue the value of earliest paitent contact if it consists of having a half day session in your first year in which you shadow a doctor for a day. But lots of medical schools do exactly that.

Why? Because it allows them, in the USN&WR eval and other sources, to list first patient contact as in first year and can trumpet the fact in marketing materials.

So for that particular item, ask a couple questions to find out when patient contact is a meaningful part of the curriculum. At the school I'm at, we have a course that runs the first two years in which we work hands-on with patients to build up doctoring skills and practice them at weekly clinics so that by the time we do rotations in third year, we have some pretty solid skills already.

The benefit of early quality patient contact is that you will perform better in your third and fourth year, because you're not struggling to learn to differentiate heart sounds or do basic physicals but are instead learning more advanced skills. Also (and this is key), instead of spending the first two years of hitting the books in a purely theoretical way, you're able to apply some of the knowledge you're learning in a clinical setting. This makes the information stick better and makes it a lot more palatable.

But like LizzyM says, this may or may not be valuable to you. It's a very individual thing.

yellowumbrella said:

For one of the schools I withdrew from, they sent me a 24 question survey ranking that school vs. the school I'm going to and how important each factor was in accepting/declining the school. I didn't add up points but they probably came out pretty even... sometimes you have to go with a feeling.

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That is true and I am definitely not trying to suggest that no emotion will play a role. I just don't want to make a decision based completely on my own biases

at one of the interviews i went on, someone (i forgot who) said that in the end this will be much more a decision coming from the heart than from the brain. i think that's true. i think if you try to break it down too much- with pluses and minues and numbering systems- you might be looking too closely at the trees. this is a forest decision. charts also don't account for the weight of the various factors. even if one school has many many "pluses" going for it (the right grading system, prestige, even tuition), there might one one factor that another school has that outweighs all of these other pluses.

bmarms said:

at one of the interviews i went on, someone (i forgot who) said that in the end this will be much more a decision coming from the heart than from the brain. i think that's true. i think if you try to break it down too much- with pluses and minues and numbering systems- you might be looking too closely at the trees. this is a forest decision. charts also don't account for the weight of the various factors. even if one school has many many "pluses" going for it (the right grading system, prestige, even tuition), there might one one factor that another school has that outweighs all of these other pluses.

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While I agree it isn't a purely analytical decision, I think LizzyM's right on this one. If you just say "OMG it's Harvard I have to go, I have always loved Harvard" when you know you don't like the curriculum, location, etc. then you're going to have a miserable 4 years.

It seems there are many very good qualitative ways to help pick a school that are very important but I am wondering if there are also any universal or broad quantitative factors as well. My fear is that school A does a great job with its interview day, literature, contact, second look weekend etc but this is more a show than say school B which maybe is actually better but puts less resources into courting students. It seems to me that too make the best choice, you need to trust your feelings, but also have some common reference to benchmark those feelings too. Clearly US News or match lists etc are not a good benchmark and it seems hard for the average applicant to know more than what they are allowed to see and learn and on various visit days.

there might one one factor that another school has that outweighs all of these other pluses.

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And you can account for that with an objectively based system

riceman04 said:

Yeah...I do realize that but I honestly think this will allow me to be at least a little more objective in my decision making process. Emotion and so called prestige can easily cloud ones judgement. So why not ensure that you are not making what could be a life changing decision based solely on subjective and constantly changing emotions. I made my decision to attend undergrad according to subjective pressures with only a slight understanding of why I wanted to attend Rice. Of course, I had a great time at Rice, but I never even attempted to fully consider all of my options

I see this as trying to understand my interest...and there are certain things I do not want to overlook in making my decision.

What you are suggesting is basically that we allow pretty much the majority of our decision making process to be completely subjective.



...thanks for making fun of me though...my day has started out awesome...


I'm just trying to do my homework...and I'll be that much better prepared when I do interview at schools....Dang Drogba!

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Heh, that second paragraph was not meant as an attack on you but rather a response to the general thrust of this thread, sorry if it seemed like I singled you out.

I'm definitely not suggesting that someone picks a school without careful deliberation. However, I think the decision cannot be reduced to the summation of quantified discrete categories because the attractiveness of a school is an emergent property, not a simple sum of its parts . How's that for a thesis statement...

Drogba said:

Heh, that second paragraph was not meant as an attack on you but rather a response to the general thrust of this thread, sorry if it seemed like I singled you out.

I'm definitely not suggesting that someone picks a school without careful deliberation. However, I think the decision cannot be reduced to the summation of quantified discrete categories because the attractiveness of a school is an emergent property, not a simple sum of its parts . How's that for a thesis statement...

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co-sign.

Drogba said:

Heh, that second paragraph was not meant as an attack on you but rather a response to the general thrust of this thread, sorry if it seemed like I singled you out.

I'm definitely not suggesting that someone picks a school without careful deliberation. However, I think the decision cannot be reduced to the summation of quantified discrete categories because the attractiveness of a school is an emergent property, not a simple sum of its parts . How's that for a thesis statement...

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hmmm...I see. So then how do you engage in careful deliberation without considering the individual factors that are of the utmost importance to you?

I could honestly see myself (without having something tangible) going through the various likes and dislikes of each school without applying a uniform method for ensuring I do not favor one school over the other due to my own bias (based on some slightly ambiguous rankings meant to appeal to a mass of people, rather than be tailored according to my specific needs).

I'm probably going to get laughed at for this one (maybe not by you)...but I am humble enough to not allow my pride to prevent me from asking you this...but what do you mean by emergent property? (I am assuming that by "the attactiveness of a school is an emergent property" you mean that one's particular attraction to a school is still too new in the developmental phase to truly decipher what characteristics may be personally appealing or unappealing).

So I guess I should explain how I was fully planning on using the research I have done.

Due to financial limitations (and for the simple sake of keeping my sanity) I cannot apply to 60+ med schools. In order for me to dwindle down this list to a reasonable #, without making spontaneous decisions (while sitting in Starbucks sipping on hot tea), I had to come up with a method that would give me the best chance of applying to schools I felt would fit me best (based on provided public information...US News rankings not considered).

Considering the fact that I have quantified my reasons for applying to specific schools, I am not going to allow those preliminary scores to function as determinants of where I would attend, assuming I were to be interviewed and eventually accepted. What I do plan on doing is focusing my attention on the schools to which I have been granted and interview and then use the interview day and continuing correspondence to not only confirm/challenge what I initially found (i.e. to ensure my experience in person validates whatever score I originally assigned)....yeah...it is tedious...but at least in my case very necessary.

I just don't want this process to be too gray...I need as much black and white in my life as possible.

yeah...sooooo...ummmmm...yeah

Yikes. I was hoping this thread would give me a little better idea but I still find myself indecisive. I think it's because the schools I applied to were all fairly similar and were places I thought would be a good fit.

Maybe part of it is that I don't know exactly what I want? Besides a cooperative environment, a curriculum that is not exclusively PBL, and an urban/city location (I want to work with the urban underserved)... I'm not sure really what else even matters to me. I really think each school will give me a great education.

The one huge difference between the schools I've been accepted at though is one is in a warm climate, and I hate winter. But I feel like that's a silly reason to pick a school...